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Judge Rejects Keeping Trump's Documents from January 6th Committee; Prices in America Surging; Mark Wolfe is Interviewed about Energy Prices. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 10, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto. Nice to be in New York with Erica this morning.

Breaking overnight, a major blow to former President Trump and his continuing push to keep documents related to January 6th out of the public eye, out of the hands of investigators. In a scathing rebuke, a federal judge rejected Trump's assertion of executive privilege. The judge wrote, quote, presidents are not kings and the plaintiff is not president.

Trump has already notified the court of his intent to appeal, but an appeal alone will not stop the archives from beginning to hand over the disputed records to the House committee. That begins on Friday.

HILL: That appeal, too, is not, of course, the former president's only plan. Trump had previously indicated he'd asked for a judicial order to prevent the release of the records, a stay, as long as he is making arguments in court. Now, that process could potentially take months, if not years.

And this ruling, of course, comes as the January 6th committee has issued ten new subpoenas targeting former Trump administration it officials. Among them, Senior Adviser Stephen Miller and Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.

All eyes, at this point, on Attorney General Merrick Garland as he weighs whether to charge those Trump allies who don't comply. And if the DOJ does not enforce those subpoenas, of course, then, why would they?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Well, CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild has been covering this. She joins us now from Washington.

SO, Whitney, as we mentioned, Trump, as he often does, has notified the court that he is appealing. What happens next and, crucially, in what timeframe? WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, more

immediately, he's asking for a stay on the judge's order. So that happened this morning. We'll see if -- what the judge rules because the timeline here is so short. These documents are supposed to go to the House Select Committee by Friday. So, a lot of time pressure on the Trump camp to try to slow this down.

As you mentioned, there are a lot of legal hurdles before this -- these documents actually get to the House Select Committee. He's going to try to go to the Court of Appeals if he doesn't get the ruling he wants from the district judge. This could -- they could try to do an emergency -- emergency lane, all the way up to the Supreme Court. We don't know what they would rule on that.

But in the immediate outset, though, this is a huge moment. I think, frankly, this is probably the most significant win for the House Select Committee so far in trying to figure out exactly what the mindset was of the Trump camp leading up to and on the day of the insurrection.

Here is a quote from the judge's ruling. Trump does not acknowledge -- excuse me, Trump does not acknowledge the deference owed to the incumbent president's judgment. His position is that he may override the express will of the executive branch -- excuse me, his position that he may override the express will of the executive branch appears to be premised on the notion that his executive power exists in perpetuity.

That has always been the question, how elastic is this executive privilege. Do presidents enjoy this even after they leave office? The judge says, frankly, no. This decision lies with the sitting president.

Again, as I said, this is a huge moment for the committee.

Here's Bennie Thompson warning about this in real-time on CNN last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): It's a big deal.

If you take your issue to court and lose, then you need to man up and deal with it and not be a spoiled brat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: The Trump campaign trying very much to slow this down. Here's their statement in relation -- as in respond to this judge's order. The battle to defend executive privilege for presidents past, present and future from its outset was destined to be decided by the appellate courts. President Trump remains committed to defending the Constitution and the office of the presidency and will be seeing this process through.

But as I mentioned, time is ticking. These documents supposed to be delivered by Friday.

Erica and Jim.

HILL: We will be watching. Whitney Wild, appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now for more on the legal ramification here, we're joined by former U.S. attorney Elie Honig, CNN's Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic.

Good to have you both here.

Elie, so nice to do this in person.

As we look at this, you know, as Whitney just said, she said, this is really the most significant win for the House Select Committee so far. But the question is, will it actually play out for that?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So, Erica, first of all, this opinion that we saw last night is just a judicial annihilation of Donald Trump's position. And that's important because I think it's unlikely to ultimately get overturned on appeal. But the big question, of course, is the stay.

But this was a huge win really on two levels for the committee. First of all, it puts a serious restriction on Donald Trump's overly aggressive use of executive privilege. But also, let's remember, these documents are really important. This is over 770 pages of internal White House documents created by and about the key players going through what they were doing during the key hours of January 6th. So this is sort of a two-track win. But there's more ahead in the Court of Appeals.

SCIUTTO: Joan, you cover the Supreme Court, of course. Trump's strategy potentially mean this is could go up to the Supreme Court in a situation where the Supreme Court could make a broader decision about the true extent of executive privilege.

[09:05:03]

I suppose with your pulse on those nine justices, what's the likelihood that this case goes that high and on what timeframe?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Well, you know, I'm reminded of how many times in the past he said, while he was president, just wait until I get to the Supreme Court, which I'm sure he'll say this time around. And, you know, this is a new question. This is never before has the court, any court, been asked to decide whether former presidents assertion of executive privilege can essentially supersede a sitting president. And the district court judge said -- acknowledged how novel this question is.

But while she couldn't rely on, you know, past precedent that locked it in, she certainly was guided by past Supreme Court decisions, which essentially put the executive privilege right on the institution, on the individual who's in office, not the personal interests of a president, essentially even at the time, or especially once he's left office.

So, I think that this 39-page opinion is pretty clear and deeply rooted in where the Supreme Court has been before. But to answer your question, yes, I think it could come up to the Supreme Court, both on the issuance of some sort of temporary action, a stay, to halt what could happen on Friday when the archives are supposed to turn over the papers, and then to the larger question of the merits.

But as the district court judge said here, past Supreme Court rulings certainly guide in the direction that President Trump -- former President Trump would lose. And, you know, it's -- it is a different court these days. It is a more unpredictable court with the three appointees of President Donald Trump. But I would predict that, you know, whether it comes sooner or later, that this Supreme Court is not willing to let a former president assert the privilege against the wishes of a sitting president.

HILL: So let's talk about -- you know, before we even get to the -- there is this question now of a stay, Elie, right, which is going to be looked at, I would imagine, through a political lens depending on where people stand, right, whether it's granted or not. There has to be some legal merit, though, does there not, for that stay to be granted?

HONIG: Yes. So the stay is really the ballgame here. It's important that we understand that because, as Joan just said, these documents are going to start being turned over to Congress on Friday. So if there's no stay, Congress will have those documents, then they're out there in the world.

But you're not entitled to a stay. You have to show some reasonable likelihood of ultimate success, of ultimately winning this case. And given the way that this court opinion that we saw last night was put together, and Joan's right, there's no case that's directly on point, but it's really methodical and it's hard to argue with just the basic common sense logic of the opinion, which is, it's not up to the former guy, it's up to the current guy. If they disagree, then, generally speaking, the current president gets to decide.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: It's hard to think of what a reasonable counterargument would be to that.

So, I think it's going to be -- it could be hard for Donald Trump to show what he needs to show to get a stay.

SCIUTTO: Elie, folks watching now could be forgiven for saying, here's yet another investigation, where is it going to go, right? And there are multiple investigations underway. One down the street here looking at Trump's business. You have, in Georgia, looking at election interference. You, of course, have these cases which relate to the January 6th committee.

From your perspective, which, if any, is likely or has a chance to leading to genuine legal penalties? HONIG: So, I would break this into two categories. First of all, we know there are two pending criminal investigations. One here in Manhattan by the district attorney, one down in Georgia by the Fulton County district attorney. Those are active cases. We know that grand juries have been convened. They have the power of the authority to subpoena people and potentially, we don't know if they're there yet, but potentially to vote on indictments.

Then the president, the former president, Donald Trump, is facing a whole slew of civil cases, lawsuits where he's been served for everything from defamation to his role in the January 6th attack. And the thing that's important to keep in mind is, in all those cases, he's going to be deposed -- he's already been deposed in one of those case -- under oath. There's some risk in that. Ultimately, these cases could come to trial. The facts come out. He could get hit with large sort of cash settlements or cash verdicts.

The big thing that's missing, though, to me, is Merrick Garland and DOJ. There's no public indication that they're looking at Donald Trump for anything to do with his role in election interference or January 6th in any meaningful way.

SCIUTTO: Listen, lots to follow. We'll see where it goes.

HONIG: For sure.

SCIUTTO: Elie Honig, Joan Biskupic, thanks so much, as always.

We are also following breaking news this morning on the economy. New data showing that prices rose at a higher rate than they have in 30 years.

Plus, defense attorneys for Kyle Rittenhouse are trying to make their case that he was acting in self-defense when he shot and killed a man at a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Rittenhouse himself may take the stand today. We're going to take you there live.

HILL: And later, an absolutely horrible mix up at an IVF clinic. Two women implanted with the wrong embryos and then forced into a painful custody exchange after realizing the babies they had been raising for four months were not their biological children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:14:30]

HILL: Breaking news, America's prices surging more than they have in 30 years. And there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

SCIUTTO: CNN reporter Matt Egan, he's live in Paramus, New Jersey, this morning.

Matt, the October inflation report just released. Tell us about the data and what's behind this? I mean how much of this is the comeback of the economy post-pandemic.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Erica and Jim, this is an historic inflation report and is landing just before the holidays.

Now, everyday Americans are getting squeezed by higher prices.

[09:15:00]

And, unfortunately, the numbers are all moving in the wrong direction. Consumer prices were up by 6.2 percent in October from the year before. Not only is that an acceleration from the elevated levels during the summer, it is the highest gain in one month since November of 1990.

Now, month over month, prices were up by 0.9 percent. That is more than double the rate in September.

And, no, this is not just about gas price. If you strip out food and energy, core prices were up by the most since August of 1991.

Now, let me walk you through some of the individual items, particularly electronics that have gotten more expensive due to surging demand, supply chain issues and computer chip shortages. Look at computers and smart home assistants, up more than 8 percent. Televisions up more than 10 percent. Washers and dryers, up nearly 15 percent.

Now, some electronics have actually gotten cheaper. Smart phones in particular, they're 20 percent cheaper than a year ago. And I should emphasize that these are national prices, not necessarily what you would see in individual stores like the one I'm in right now, in Best Buy.

Best Buy says that for its perspective, inventories actually look pretty good. That's because they've been working with partners. They've actually been chartering their own ships to bring stuff from overseas.

But I have been talking to some shoppers in the last few days and they do sound kind of frustrated about higher prices. Here's what one of them told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMI SINGH, PRIVATE PRESCHOOL OWNER: You know, I'm a bit frustrated that prices are up. I think with so much competition, you would expect them to be lower. So, it's quite frustrating with all the money being funneled into -- free money into the economy just causing inflation and everything. So, you know, with that comes higher pay raises for my employees and higher operating business expenses for my business. So, it is quite frustrating. But, you know, it is what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now, for months, we had heard from officials in the White House, the Federal Reserve and experts on Wall Street that inflation was just going to be a temporary thing. But there's a growing sense that inflation is not going away any time soon. That prices are probably not going to fall back to earth just yet. And, Erica and Jim, you know, unfortunately, the latest numbers suggest that inflation may get worse before it gets better.

SCIUTTO: They're seeing a lot of the effects of the economy coming back post-pandemic.

Matt Egan, thanks very much.

EGAN: Thank you.

HILL: The other issue that we know so many of you are dealing with, gas prices. These are a major headache and soon those price hikes could also hit your heating bills. The U.S. Energy Information Administration is warning that this winter, take a look at some of these numbers, energy bills could rise 15 percent if you use electricity to heat your home, 50 percent if you rely on natural gas. If you are heating with oil, 59 percent, and just over 50 percent for those using propane. That's a 94 percent increase. Propane users, you could be in for the biggest blow here. That is going to add up to hundreds of dollars over the heating season, which, of course, lasts multiple months.

Here to discuss, Mark Wolfe, he's the executive director for the National Energy Assistance Directors' Association.

Mark, it's good to have you with us this morning.

I know that you have reached out to Congress. You're urging Congress to put some additional funding in the pending social safety net bill to deal with this issue specifically. What are you hearing from Congress?

MARK WOLFE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ENERGY ASSISTANCE DIRECTORS' ASSOCIATION: Well, that's a good question.

There is a lot of interest. There's a lot of concern about these rising prices. You know, what you're just saying, if you put it in terms of dollars, so the average American now is spending between $300 to $500 more this winter to heat their home. That's on top of about $80 a month more to buy gasoline. So the combined effect this winter will be close to a thousand dollars more per family for gasoline and home heating. That's roughly what a family spends on Christmas presents. So that's one way to think about it.

This is like Christmas. This is where people's money is going to go to buy gasoline and home heating. We've asked Congress to provide us with an additional $5 billion to help families pay their home heating bill this winter, primarily because the money they gave us last year, they gave us an additional $5.4 billion in the stimulus bills, well, that's been reduced by these increasing prices. So the amount of product we can buy is down by 30 percent. So, we're very worried about how we'll help families pay for home heating this winter, especially those that can't afford the cost of home energy.

HILL: Right. And if there isn't anything additional there.

So, as you look at that, right, and I think in terms of, you know, sort of visualizing for people looking at what you would spend on Christmas gifts versus what you're going to pay additionally for heating is a great way to set it up. But the reality is, for most families, this isn't a choice between, you know, what you're putting under the tree and how you're heating your home. Those choices could be far more significant in terms of how you feed your family.

WOLFE: Exactly. We've done lots of surveys. And when people can't pay their energy bill, they cut back on other essentials. They cut back on food. They cut back on medicine, on clothing for the children.

[09:20:02]

And you have to remember that there really is a divide in our society. You know some people can work from home now. They don't have to drive their car as much. Others, especially front-line workers, people who drive buses, people who work in schools, they have to buy gasoline. They have to get to work. So families, for the last several months, have been spending more money for gasoline and now these home heating prices are added to that.

And so I think as we look forward, you know, what Matt Egan was just saying, when you look at inflation numbers, often we strip out energy. Well, energy is real. You know, these price increases will be a real impact on families. I don't think families think a lot about, well, theoretically, you know, is this inflation or is this not inflation. These are real increases. And they're not going away any time soon.

HILL: Whatever you call it, it is -- it is hitting your bottom line and it's hitting hard.

We don't have a lot of time left, but, really quickly, look, the prices aren't changing. Is there anything practically besides turning down that thermostat and putting on a sweater, which is what my dad would always tell me to do, is there anything else that families can do to, you know, try to bring some of these costs down?

WOLFE: Well, one thing families can do is tune up their furnace. That is the most immediate thing you can do. The other thing is you can turn down the thermostat. Every 1 degree down saves you 2 percent. And the other thing that -- I just wrote this piece for CNN that's running this morning. The administration can do things. They can release oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. They can push OPEC harder to release -- to increase production. Those are the kinds of things that will help get prices down.

So, families can't do anything about these global prices, but the administration can also do things to help get prices down. And together that can help reduce the impact this coming winter and going forward even after that to get the price of gasoline down.

HILL: Mark Wolfe, appreciate you joining us this morning. And that piece again is up on cnn.com right now.

Thank you.

WOLFE: OK. Thank you. HILL: Up next, the FBI in Houston ready to assist in the investigation into what went wrong at the Astroworld Music Festival. We're also learning independent investigators could be called in to take that case. We are live in Houston, next.

SCIUTTO: And we're moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures pointing lower this morning. This after stocks fell on Tuesday, snapping an eight-day winning streak. Stocks have been soaring during earnings season with companies consistently beating their estimates for the third quarter. We're going to see how these latest inflation numbers affect the markets, though. We're following all of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:14]

HILL: Right now, prosecutors are questioning their seventh witness in the trial over the death of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. Three men are facing murder charges for shooting and killing Arbery while he was jogging in February of 202.

Prosecutors spent Tuesday largely focused on the construction site that Arbery had entered before he was killed. The state also working to undercut an early argument the defense had put forth claiming the suspects tried to make a citizen's arrest in the moment.

Arbery's parents plan to hold a prayer vigil on the courthouse steps during a lunch break around noon.

SCIUTTO: In the next hour, the defense will calls its next witness in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. This in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Rittenhouse charged with killing two people, shooting another, during protests that followed the police shootings of Jacob Blake this last summer. He has pleaded not guilty, faces a mandatory life sentence if convicted on the most serious of the charges.

HILL: Things got a little heated on Tuesday after a defense witness offered testimony that differed from the statement he originally gave police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN DEBRUIN, FREELANCE PHOTOJOURNALIST: He had his firearm out pointing at Kyle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And as the gun's pointing a Kyle, what happened?

DEBRUIN: Kyle shot Mr. Grosskreutz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You saw Mr. Grosskreutz point his gun at Mr. Rittenhouse?

DEBRUIN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's nowhere in your statement.

DEBRUIN: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that wasn't important to include in September 11th?

DEBRUIN: Like I said, I'm not a detective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joining us now live from Kenosha, Wisconsin.

That was quite the exchange there.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: What more should we make of that? What more -- what more happened in the courtroom in response to that because there was a little more back and forth as I understand.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There was. But, Erica, think about this, this was all in relation to that witness who testified, who survived the shooting. He was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse. He himself, in the end, admitted that at some point his gun was pointed at Kyle Rittenhouse. Remember, this is the witness whose hands were up and then he basically, under cross-examination by the defense attorney, said that, yes, at some point my hand came down and it is in a photo, in a still photo from the video, you can see that his hand is pointing towards Kyle Rittenhouse. He says it was not intentional. But, of course, that doesn't matter under the law because it's about the perception -- would be about the perception of what Kyle Rittenhouse saw.

So this all, of course, has to do with self-defense. There was a big moment in this trial when Gaige Grosskreutz testified. And it all goes to what the defense is trying to do here. By putting on this case, they have already called three witnesses.

[09:30:02]

They need to prove that Kyle Rittenhouse acted in self-defense when he opened fire. That's why there's this big question looming.