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Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Continues. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired November 10, 2021 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
KYLE RITTENHOUSE, DEFENDANT: If I needed to defend myself while treating somebody, yes.
THOMAS BINGER, KENOSHA COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If you didn't think there was friction with the crowd, and you're out there trying to help, why didn't you expect there would be any danger?
RITTENHOUSE: From the previous night when I saw people being assaulted.
BINGER: Were they medics being assaulted?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know who they were. I know one of them was just trying to put out a fire at his business.
BINGER: So you saw someone put out a fire -- who was trying to put out a fire who got assaulted?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: But I -- if you're going to help people, why would you expect anyone would try and hurt you?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know. Somebody did try to hurt me. And I was helping people.
BINGER: Well, that came -- you're talking about later on?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: OK. But at this moment in time, this is before the shootings.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: This is before you cross 60th, before you deal with Rosenbaum, Huber, Grosskreutz, all that, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: So, at this moment in time, you don't think there's a hostile crowd. You're there to help people. And yet you're going to run out there with the AR-15. I don't understand why you felt that you were going to be in danger if you're out in a friendly -- what you think is a friendly crowd helping them. RITTENHOUSE: I didn't -- I didn't say I didn't think they were hostile. I didn't think they were hostile towards us.
BINGER: OK, so they're not hostile to you, and you're going to go help them.
Why do you need the gun when you go out there?
RITTENHOUSE: I needed the gun because, if I had to protect myself because somebody attacked me...
BINGER: Why would you think anybody would do that?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know.
BINGER: But you clearly planned on it. You were prepared for it. You thought it was going to happen.
RITTENHOUSE: No, I didn't.
BINGER: That's the whole reason you brought the gun, isn't it?
RITTENHOUSE: I brought the gun to protect myself.
BINGER: Exactly, because you thought you personally were going to be in danger, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Not necessarily.
BINGER: I don't understand. You said you're going to bring the gun to protect yourself. So you thought you were going to be in danger, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I didn't think I would be put into a situation where I would have to defend myself.
BINGER: You said that the people around you on that property and the people up on the roof were there to protect you. That's what you said in the video, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: You meant when you go out in the crowd, they're going to protect you, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Watch over me, yes.
BINGER: Watch over and protect you, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: Again, because you expected that, if you go out in that crowd to try and provide medical service, you thought you were going to get attacked?
RITTENHOUSE: They were to watch me. They were on the roof to watch me. And if somebody was to attack me, in their view, they could say, hey, Kyle, watch out.
BINGER: They have got AR-15s.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: We talked earlier about the fact that the AR-15s, you can't use deadly force to protect the building, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Correct.
BINGER: The AR-15 was to protect you, right? That's what you just said.
RITTENHOUSE: Not the AR-15. I said they could shout down to me and be like, hey, Kyle, watch out.
BINGER: So they're just carrying around the AR-15s for no reason?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know why they're carrying around the AR-15s.
BINGER: Can we play exhibit -- this is the end -- at the end of this video is where you invite Mr. McGinnis to follow you and Ryan Balch, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And you invited him to do that because you want -- I think you said on -- when your attorney was asking you questions, that you wanted him to film you while you were out in the crowd doing your thing. Fair?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes, I said it was OK for him to film me.
BINGER: Let's play Exhibit 17, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SIREN BLARING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: Just asked you: "So, you're a certified EMT?" And you said "Yes," correct?
[15:05:00]
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: That was a lie, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: I'm not an EMT.
BINGER: You're not a certified EMT. You're not an EMT of any kind. You weren't on that night, correct? RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: So you lied to him, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: I told him I was -- I told him I was an EMT, but I wasn't.
BINGER: And you knew you were being interviewed by someone in the media when you told that lie, didn't you?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
Please continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you work as an EMT normally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for your service. Thank you for your service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay away from that vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: Could we back up 10 seconds, please, and then just pause right there.
We just heard a voice say something to you and Mr. Balch about people throwing rocks or something along those lines. I don't really need to know exactly what they said. But did you hear that voice?
RITTENHOUSE: The police officer from the BearCat, yes.
BINGER: That's what I was going to ask. That's one of the law enforcement officers in that armored vehicle that you're walking past, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And this -- what we're watching in this video happens a few minutes after those same BearCats had come to the 59th Street property and handed you some bottles of water, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And they say to you something to the effect of: We appreciate you guys.
Do you remember that?
RITTENHOUSE: I do. BINGER: That's when you were on the 59th Street property, and you
were acting like you were guarding that property, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: So how did it make you feel when the police are letting you pass the lines, they're warning you about people throwing rocks, they're handing out bottles of water, they're telling you that they appreciate you? How'd that make you feel?
RITTENHOUSE: I didn't really care. I was thankful for the water because I had O.C. stuff, gas in my eyes. But I didn't really notice or care.
BINGER: It didn't make you feel like they approved of what you were doing?
RITTENHOUSE: No.
BINGER: It didn't make you feel like you're emboldened now to go out there and act on their behalf?
RITTENHOUSE: No.
BINGER: Let's play the video here, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: Pause.
RITTENHOUSE: You yelled something, "friendly, friendly, friendly," I'm not sure how many times, but you yelled "friendly" out?
BINGER: Yes.
This is -- if I can use the pointer. You are crossing on the west side of Sheridan Road. You are crossing south across 60th Street here heading across the police line, which had barricaded across 60th and Sheridan. Fair?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: You understood at this moment that you are now entering a crowd of whatever you want to call them, protesters, demonstrators. Your attorneys call them rioters or looters or whatever. That's who you're going to now be part of. You're going to be in that crowd, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I was walking through. I announced myself as friendly and that I was there to help them. BINGER: Because you had to do that to warn these people that, hey,
I'm on your side, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I told them that I was friendly.
BINGER: Because, if you didn't say that, you were worried they would see you as hostile, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Can you re-ask your question?
BINGER: Sure.
RITTENHOUSE: I'm trying to understand.
BINGER: Absolutely.
If you're going to go up or Dominick Black or Ryan Balch, you don't need to tell them you're friendly, because they know that your friends, right? We don't tell this to our friends.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: We say friendly to people that aren't our friends, people that might be hostile to us, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes, I said it to them because they were throwing rocks at me. And when I told them I was friendly, they stopped throwing rocks at us.
BINGER: And to be accurate, they were throwing them...
RITTENHOUSE: The police.
BINGER: ... at the BearCats, not at you.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: One of them hit one of the armored vehicles and bounced off towards you and Mr. Balch, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: It didn't do any damage to that armored vehicle, did it?
RITTENHOUSE: Not that I'm aware of.
BINGER: I mean, can you imagine trying to harm an armored vehicle with a rock? That's pretty hard to do, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: But they weren't -- no one was throwing rocks at you, but you were kind of in a ricochet line of fire. That's fair to say?
[15:10:05]
RITTENHOUSE: Yes. Yes.
BINGER: So, you wanted to let these people know that, hey, I might look like I'm on the other side, but I'm really friendly. Fair?
RITTENHOUSE: I wasn't on any side. But...
BINGER: I didn't say that. I said that you might appear to them -- I mean, that was what you were worried about, right, when you said friendly?
And I notice you're looking over your attorney a lot. Can you -- I'm trying to ask you.
When you are doing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor, I want to object to that.
He's looking directly at Mr. Binger, and I'm behind him. He accused Mr. Rittenhouse of looking at his attorney. Does he want him to look at the ceiling?
BINGER: I will continue, Your Honor.
You, at this very moment, announced yourself as friendly because you were worried that the people on the other side of that street would see you as hostile. Fair?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't -- I can't tell you how I think they would see me, but I just told them I was friendly.
BINGER: And I want to make sure you understand my question, because I was asking you what you thought when you said this.
You said you announced yourself as friendly because you thought to yourself at that very moment, I'm walking into a group that is hostile to me. Isn't that true?
RITTENHOUSE: That looked hostile. They were throwing rocks at the squad car -- not the squad cars, the armored police cars.
BINGER: And you felt it was necessary to tell them friendly, friendly friendly so that they wouldn't do anything to you. Fair?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: Let's continue the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SHOUTING)
(INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: There's a person that comes up to you carrying a skateboard. Do you see that?
RITTENHOUSE: I do.
BINGER: And he's got some fire extinguisher slung over his shoulder?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And he says something to you about something, something putting out fires. And you respond: "They know. They know."
Did I understand what you said correctly there? "They know"?
RITTENHOUSE: That's what I just heard, but I don't -- I don't remember that interaction very well, other than helping the guy after with the shoulder.
BINGER: And that's going to come up in a second here. But when you're talking to this individual about the fire extinguishers, do you remember anything about that conversation?
RITTENHOUSE: It's hard to recall, but I think it was about fires, that they were putting out fires.
BINGER: OK.
And when you said "They know, they know," who is they?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't recall.
BINGER: Do you have any idea what you were talking about?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't.
BINGER: It seems to me, Mr. Rittenhouse, that this person is suggesting he's going to go put out some fires, and you're sort of assuring him that it's -- you don't need to. It's OK.
Would that be a fair interpretation, or no?
RITTENHOUSE: No.
BINGER: But you don't remember what was going on?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes, I don't remember the conversation, what it was about, other than fires. And I don't recall it.
BINGER: This is one of the guys in the group that you later got your fire extinguisher from, right?
RITTENHOUSE: No.
BINGER: We will get to that in a second. Let's continue.
Brian (ph), can you...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You good?
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just fucking (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a little spicy. That's all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little salsa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a little salsa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you please not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does anybody need medical?
I think someone has got some medical weed. I'll tell you that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does anybody need medical?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: You're walking around asking people if they need medical.
And you talked earlier about treating a couple -- I don't know, somebody at the at the 59th Street Car Source, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Minor injuries.
BINGER: Minor injuries.
When you were walking around outside that property, when you're out in the street, announcing what you're announcing, did anybody respond and say, yes, I need help from you?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: When was that?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't recall an exact time, but somebody cut their finger open. And I gave them some gauze and some bandage tape.
[15:15:00]
BINGER: Was that before or after this? Do you remember?
RITTENHOUSE: Before.
[15:15:01]
BINGER: Where physically did that happen?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't recall. BINGER: And was this a situation where you announced or, you know, yelled out that you could help and then somebody said, "Yes, I need some help?" Was that what went on in that situation?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: As you're walking along here, from this point until the end, until you shoot Rosenbaum and Huber and Grosskreutz, no one in this crowd ever says to you, "Yes, I do need medical. Come over and help me," correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: That's correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: OK. Let's continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: This is the individual who accuses you of pointing your gun at them, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And he says that you did so when he was on a vehicle, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And, in fact, he had them at the 59th Street Car Source location, climbing on, sitting on, jumping on one of the vehicles in that lot. Hadn't he?
RITTENHOUSE: Not that I'm aware of. I know, I heard JoAnn Fiedler testified to that, but I don't remember seeing him at that location.
BINGER: But he accuses you of that here.
RITTENHOUSE: He does.
BINGER: And you tell him, basically, "Yes, I did point the gun at you," right?
RITTENHOUSE: I shrugged it off and said, "Yes, I did" sarcastically, meaning I didn't but I just didn't want a confrontation so I was like I did and walked away.
BINGER: Why did you lie to him?
RITTENHOUSE: I didn't lie to him. I was using sarcasm.
BINGER: The words you said, "Yes, I did," those weren't true, were they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ridiculous (ph). We're now fighting over sarcasm, this is a murder trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) says sarcasm. He says it's a lie. And that (INAUDIBLE) examiner, go ahead.
BINGER: When you told that individual, "Yes, I did point a gun at you," that wasn't true, was it?
RITTENHOUSE: I didn't point a gun at him.
BINGER: So, why did you react to him that way in that particular moment?
RITTENHOUSE: I thought that would be the best way to avoid conflict. I just said, "Yes, I did" sarcastically like, "I don't know what you're talking about."
BINGER: What conflict were you trying to avoid?
RITTENHOUSE: Any conflict if you would have got -- like he was accusing me of something I didn't do, so I thought the best thing would be -- would -- the best thing to do would be to walk away instead of getting into some argument, so.
BINGER: But you didn't just walk away. You said to him sarcastically, "Yes, I did."
RITTENHOUSE: I said sarcastically, "I did" and walked away.
BINGER: Because you're worried about a conflict. What conflict were you worried about?
RITTENHOUSE: A verbal argument?
BINGER: This individual is clearly expressing to you that he's unhappy because he thought you pointed your gun at him. Correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And you can understand why someone would be upset when you point an AR-15 at them, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: You knew that even before this, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: In fact, back at the 59th Street Car Source, that crowd that you've described is not being -- not having any friction. Many of that crowd got upset, because they thought people in your group, were pointing their laser pointers at them. Do you remember that?
RITTENHOUSE: I saw it in the videos, but I don't know what other people were doing.
BINGER: I'm not saying anybody actually was. I'm saying the crowd was upset and you knew that. You've heard them complaining, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Watching the videos, yes.
BINGER: And even at that time, that night, you heard the crowd upset because they thought members of your group were pointing their laser pointers at them. Do you remember that from that night?
RITTENHOUSE: Sort of, yes or no, I remember Ryan Balch saying something like, telling the people to stop pointing the lasers at people or something. I don't really remember that.
BINGER: Ryan Balch was telling the people in your group to stop doing that.
RITTENHOUSE: The people on the roof --
BINGER: Who were part of your group, right?
RITTENHOUSE: That were with the -- that were there, yes.
BINGER: So, you know when we're talking about laser pointers, we're talking about the site at the end of some guns that helps almost like this, right? If I -- if somebody does this at me, you know, that could be someone pointing a gun. Correct?
RITTENHOUSE: It could be seen as that.
BINGER: And that's what the crowd was complaining about, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
[15:20:06]
BINGER: So, you knew from that crowd incident and you certainly knew from this incident that when people have guns pointed at them, it can really escalate the situation, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes. I -- yes. I don't think anybody has lasers on their guns. I think --
BINGER: Yes, but let's go back to your group at 59th Street, because you actually didn't know any of those people other than Dominick and Nick Smith, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: You had just met Ryan Balch for the first time, three or four hours before this video, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: You just met Jason Lackowski for the first time just, actually, only a few minutes before this, right, because he didn't get in until 10:45.
RITTENHOUSE: Correct.
BINGER: So, at this point in the video, I don't know, this is probably about 11:30 or so at night?
RITTENHOUSE: I met him about 35 minutes prior to that.
BINGER: And probably it only spent, what, 10, 15 minutes at all in the same location as Jason Lackowski before you walk south?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: So, again, Jason Lackowski was someone you'd never met before that night.
RITTENHOUSE: Correct.
BINGER: And you barely spent any time with him that night, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Correct.
BINGER: And, of course, the people up on the roof, other than Dominick Black and Nick Smith, you didn't know any of them before that night either, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: I knew Dominick Black and Nick Smith, but people on --
BINGER: I'm speaking for them.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes, I'm sorry.
BINGER: Dominick Black and Nick Smith.
RITTENHOUSE: I knew -- those are the two people I knew on the roof.
BINGER: Other than that, you didn't know anyone else before this night, fair?
RITTENHOUSE: Correct.
BINGER: OK. Now, when this little interaction that we've just watched happens, you're still walking with Ryan Balch, aren't you?
RITTENHOUSE: I -- I'm not. I thought I was at the time, but seeing hindsight view, I'm not.
BINGER: When you decided to cross 60th with Ryan Balch, you two talked about the fact that if you get separated to go back to the 59th Street Car Source, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't recall that conversation happening.
BINGER: But you tried to do that, didn't you?
RITTENHOUSE: I did. BINGER: Because you felt like if I'm out here by myself, that's not good. I need to head back, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And you also talked to Ryan Balch about the fact that when you get out into this crowd, keep your mouth shut. Don't antagonize them. Didn't Ryan talk to you about that?
RITTENHOUSE: No, we didn't talk about that.
BINGER: So at this very moment, you're telling us you've lost track of Ryan Balch?
RITTENHOUSE: A little bit ahead, but around that time, yes.
BINGER: Let's continue the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BINGER: You have just walked off the screen heading east across Sheridan Road to the Ultimate gas station, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And at that point in time, you don't know where Ryan Balch is, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: When I stop and look around, yes.
BINGER: And instead of deciding to head back at this point, you go over to Ultimate gas and you talk to some folks over there, fair?
RITTENHOUSE: I walk over to the Ultimate gas station and I walk around and I tried to see if I can find Mr. Balch.
BINGER: And you couldn't do that.
RITTENHOUSE: No.
BINGER: So then you decided to approach the police line and cross back, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: Because you decided your best course of action at that point would be to return to the same group that you'd been with, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: Now, at that moment in time, the police had pushed everybody south of 60th, right? RITTENHOUSE: Sort of, I don't really know if they're --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you say south to 60th?
BINGER: I said south of 60th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh OK.
BINGER: Let's go back a little bit. We watched that interview with Richie McGinniss, where he first comes up to you and talks to you, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Mm-hmm?
BINGER: Do you remember that?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And you're standing there at the 59th Street property, aren't you?
RITTENHOUSE: I am.
BINGER: And he talks to you about what you're going to do and you're to say you're going to run out and help people things like that, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: At that point, the police had already passed with all the BearCats and MRAPs and armored vehicles, right?
RITTENHOUSE: It's what it looks like, yes.
BINGER: And they had established a line on 60th and Sheridan, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And they pushed all of the protesters, demonstrators, rioters, whatever you want to call them, all of them south of 60th, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know if I can honestly answer all of them. I don't know -- I believe there are some people still north down Sheridan and put across the street.
BINGER: So we're there -- I mean, we saw crowd earlier of lots of protesters out in the street. That group, the numbers had dwindle quite a bit.
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: OK. So after the police moved to the south of 60th, there's no more actual threat to the 59th Street Car Source, is there?
[15:25:08]
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know
BINGER: Well, at that moment in time, what imminent threats did you see to the 59th Street Car Source property?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know.
BINGER: Do you remember seeing any protesters out in the street in front of the 59th Street Car Source after the police pushed everybody south of 60th?
RITTENHOUSE: I believe there are some across the street, but not many. I can't recall completely.
BINGER: And that was just two or three people, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know how many people,
BINGER: None of those people came across the street to the 59th Street Car Source, did they?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know. If they did, I would have walked off by now.
BINGER: So you didn't see them come across the street?
RITTENHOUSE: I did not.
BINGER: Fair to say that after the police pushed everybody south of 60th, you never saw any people threatening that property, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: I didn't see anybody.
BINGER: And your goal that night, you took it upon yourself to protect the 59th Street property, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: The owner's asked us.
BINGER: Sure. But you were going to station yourself at that property to try and protect it from damage, fair?
RITTENHOUSE: The Car Source location, yes.
BINGER: And once the police had pushed everybody south of that, there was no more danger.
RITTENHOUSE: At that Car Source location, yes.
BINGER: OK. So, why not go home at that point?
RITTENHOUSE: Because I still -- the police were still pushing people back and then they were backing up. And I was still helping people provide medical first aid.
BINGER: OK. So, the police had established the line at 60th with their BearCats at that point, right?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And there was no indication that they were going to reverse and back up and move back north again, that you saw, correct?
RITTENHOUSE: No, they've -- they did it earlier in the night where they did the same thing.
BINGER: Right. But this is at 11:30, 11:40 at night and they've established that --the police have established that line, and as far as you can tell, it's going to stay there, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know.
BINGER: And you talked about trying to provide medical help, but there's no one around that needs medical help at the 59th Street Car Source at that point, is there?
RITTENHOUSE: Not that I noticed.
BINGER: So you don't have any purpose there anymore, do you?
RITTENHOUSE: Other than --
BINGER: So why not go home?
RITTENHOUSE: Because I was going to help people with provide first aid and medical assistance.
BINGER: But that wasn't the reason you were there that night, you were there that night to protect the 59th Street Car Source.
RITTENHOUSE: It was one of the reasons I was there. Part of my reasons of being there was to protect the Car Source properties, and provide first aid and medical assistance.
BINGER: So you went out in the crowd, like we see in this video, looking for anyone who needed your help?
RITTENHOUSE: If somebody asked that -- if somebody said they need help, I would have helped them.
BINGER: So why go with Ryan Balch?
RITTENHOUSE: Because you're safer and better in pairs when there's somebody else that also with you.
BINGER: So when you cross 60th, you're worried about your safety?
RITTENHOUSE: A little bit.
BINGER: Even though you think this is not a hostile crowd, and you're there to help them, you were still worried about your safety. That's why you needed Balch to back you up, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I said I didn't think they were hostile towards me. I didn't say that they weren't a hostile crowd. BINGER: So let me rephrase my question that's -- to take that into account. You didn't think this was a crowd that -- was hostile to you personally and you thought you were going to help them. But yet you also felt you needed a backup, an armed former Army infantry men to protect you, fair?
RITTENHOUSE: Yes.
BINGER: And yet when he's gone, and you can't find him, you don't immediately go back, right?
RITTENHOUSE: I look for him for a second and then I think, max, I look for him for like, three minutes, and then I try to go back.
BINGER: And when you couldn't get back straight across the police lines, did you decide to try and go around the police lines? For example, the Ultimate gas station is here at 60th and Sheridan, why didn't you walk down the street here and go over this way and around?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know.
BINGER: Why didn't you go west over this way and go around?
RITTENHOUSE: I don't know.
