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Trump Loses Appeal; Rittenhouse Testifies at Trial; Lawsuits Field Over Astroworld Tragedy; Lawsuit Filed against Alec Baldwin; Americans Pay Higher Heating Costs this Winter. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 11, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Mark Maguire, thank you.

Wanda, again, thank you for being with us. I know what -- as you say, a difficult week this has been.

WANDA COOPER JONES, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: Yes. Yes. Thank you.

MARK MAGUIRE, ATTORNEY FOR AHMAUD ARBERY'S FAMILY: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, we're watching this all day as we are watching the Kyle Rittenhouse trial.

CNN's coverage continues right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

The federal judge who ruled against President Trump's assertion of executive privilege doubling down, denying his request for a stay while he appeals her ruling. Judge Tonya Chutkan latest decision means that unless the former president can get an appeals court to intervene, the National Archives will begin turning over those disputed records tomorrow.

SCIUTTO: And they're key to that investigation.

This comes as the House Select Committee investigating January 6th is ramping up its efforts to gather more information and testimony after subpoenaing more than a dozen members of Trump's inner circle this week alone. The committee is now setting its sights on those closest to the former vice president, Mike Pence, including his former chief of staff and national security adviser. Remember, his central role that day. In total, the committee has issued 35 subpoenas to individuals and organizations as part of its probe into the circumstances and coordination leading up to the January 6th insurrection.

HILL: Joining us now to discuss, federal white collar criminal defense attorney Caroline Polisi.

Good to see you this morning, Caroline.

So, as we look at this, is there any chance, you think, that these documents are not released tomorrow?

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it would have to be a very, very quick emergency appeal to the appeals court in this case. And if you read the ruling, the judge specifically noted that there is not a likelihood of success on the merits, which was her reasoning for not stepping in to stay the turnover. So this wasn't even -- this was actually the ruling on whether or not -- not, you know, the president could legitimately assert executive privilege, the former president, over the (INAUDIBLE). She was not going to stop the production of these documents.

SCIUTTO: Do you see oftentimes Trump will look to the Supreme Court for rescue? It didn't happen during the 2020 election. Do you see the Supreme Court as piping in on this, perhaps considering this more broadly, and doing so in this very short time frame that we have?

POLISI: So, I definitely think at some point it will make its way up to the Supreme Court. You know, Jim, unlike some of the other really frivolous assertions of executive privilege that we saw Trump assert throughout his presidency, in this case, you know, there is at least a cullable (ph) argument on the merits. And, really, the Supreme Court hasn't weighed in since Nixon. There are some very sort of foggy issues left to be adjudicated with respect to the assertion of executive privilege.

Here, you know, it wasn't necessarily an easy decision for the Biden administration to step in and say, look, we're waiving the privilege as the executive now. We want these records to be turned over because the privilege does maintain attached to the former president once he's out of office. They arguably are communications involved here that would be covered by the presidential communications privilege, the deliberative process privilege.

All these things are issues that, when decided, will have precedential value. Meaning, they will be taken into account in the future. And so, you know, the Biden administration wants to make sure that if they waive the privilege now, it's not going to come back and haunt them later down the road in their administration when the tables are turned.

So there are some real, novel issues to be decided here.

HILL: Really quickly, before we let you go, Keith Kellogg, who was Vice President Mike Pence's former national security adviser, he is one of the people who was subpoenaed this week. Just curious, what would your main questions be for him?

POLISI: People have a lot of questions with respect to why Kellogg was in sort of the Trump inner circle during the time of the attack and why he wasn't actually with Mike Pence at the Capitol during those times. I think that, you know, the call logs and really some of these memos that were written by Mark Meadows that will be turned over really soon will shed some light on those questions.

SCIUTTO: Caroline Polisi, thanks so much for helping clear so much up for us.

POLISI: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: In the next hour, more testimony after a consequential, dramatic day, really, in Kyle Rittenhouse's double homicide trial. Rittenhouse taking the stand, claiming he acted in self-defense when he killed two people, shot another during protests that followed the police shooting of Jacob Blake. This in Wisconsin last year.

HILL: Rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty and faces a mandatory life sentence if convicted on the most serious charge. The 18-year-old breaking down at one point on the stand.

[09:05:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYLE RITTENHOUSE, DEFENDANT: There were three people right there --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a deep breath, Kyle.

RITTENHOUSE: (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joining us now from Kenosha, Wisconsin, where he's been covering the trial.

So, what is next for the defense today?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, they have three witnesses left. They say they're going to call -- one of them is expected to be called this morning. A man by the name of John Black, Dr. John Black. He's with the Force Science Institute. He is a use of force expert. Something you would normally see in maybe a trial involving a police officer who had to use force. And there are some questions about that. This is the kind of expert witness that this person is.

And it sets up really what, from yesterday's testimony from Kyle Rittenhouse talking about what he was seeing, how he was feeling in the moments that he was firing that AR-15-style rifle. It also will set up the fact that he says he was ambushed and the fact that he was cornered. So, all of this is something that this use of force expert is supposed to talk about. This morning, though, we have reaction from the man who was shot by

Kyle Rittenhouse and survived. He reacted to the testimony from yesterday.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAIGE GROSSKREUTZ, SURVIVOR SHOT BY KYLE RITTENHOUSE: Well, I think any time you see your would-be murderer on the stand, it's emotional.

MICHAEL STRAHAN, ABC NEWS: And what was your reaction to him breaking down and crying on the stand?

GROSSKREUTZ: To me it seemed like a child who had just gotten caught doing something that he wasn't supposed to. More upset that he was caught and less upset about what he had done and what he had taken, and the numerous lives that he affected through his actions that night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: Also, we're waiting to see if the defense attorneys who said yesterday wanted a mistrial with prejudice, whether or not they're actually going to file this motion. So, we're waiting to hear if that's going to happen. Then, obviously, the prosecutors would have to respond.

So, we have three witnesses left here from the defense. The case is expected to go to the jury as early as Monday or Tuesday, the judge said yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Shimon Prokupecz in Kenosha, thanks very much.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN's chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. He's also a former federal prosecutor, author of "The American Heiress."

Jeffrey, always good to have you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, sir.

SCIUTTO: It's a self-defense case. As a lawyer, tell us how well the prosecution and defense made their cases so far. And noting that there are two different shooting deaths here, right, with somewhat different circumstances.

TOOBIN: Right. And, you know, there are two ways also of looking at this whole case. One is, is a matter of public policy, what is a 17- year-old, with no training --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TOOBIN: No gun permit, no ties to this community, doesn't even live in the state of Wisconsin, going in the night -- in the middle of the night to a riot to help out? Just an incredibly stupid, irresponsible decision.

But that's not what he's on trial for. He's on trial for murder. And I thought he was an effective witness on the issue of self-defense because he could testify that there were other people with guns, somebody swung a skateboard at his head. That is not -- that suggests self-defense. And the prosecution, I thought, did not do a very effective job in cross examining him.

HILL: The prosecution has faced a fair amount of criticism. But what I found really remarkable is -- and this is not the first time, but the judge and the judge's demeanor, and even the tone toward the prosecution throughout the trial has been interesting. Specifically, yesterday, there were a couple of moments where the judge really scolded the prosecutor.

I just want to play part of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE BRUCE SCHROEDER, KENOSHA COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: You're an experienced trial attorney and you're telling me that when the judge says, I'm excluding this, you just take it upon yourself to put it in because you think that you found a way around it? Come on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So, this was about specific video evidence that he was trying to refer to, that they had been told early on was not going to be allowed in. So there's the question of, is the judge right in this case, he should know better, but also, am I the only one who sees some of this reaction from the judge and says, it seems like he has a different set of --

TOOBIN: Well, the -- there were two big controversies during the cross-examination. One I thought the judge really had some merit where it did seem like the prosecutor was referring to the fact that he -- that Rittenhouse had not spoken before, which is commenting on the silence of a defendant. The Fifth Amendment entitles him to be silent. That is something that prosecutors should know not to tread in that area.

[09:10:02]

The other issue involved something that he had ruled off limits earlier. But the custom, in my experience, is that when a defendant takes the stand, you have wide latitude to introduce subjects that maybe had been ruled off previously. So I thought the judge was a little unfair there.

Yes, I think we may be overemphasizing that whole issue of the judge getting angry. All of us who have been prosecutors have been yelled at by judges and --

HILL: Fond memories of those moment.

TOOBIN: That's right. But it generally doesn't matter much. The jury was not present in the courtroom during that. I think that it's not going to be important to the outcome.

HILL: OK.

SCIUTTO: You bring up the big public policy issue here. Do we, as a country, in effect allow people from anywhere to show up anywhere else and sort of self-appoint themselves sheriff, right, or a sheriff's deputy? Are there any laws that govern that? I mean it seems like in this one, beyond the circumstances of the actual shooting, it's just that whether he had a permit for the gun, but are there any laws that bar me from showing up somewhere else and saying, hey, I'm going to help fight crime?

TOOBIN: Fewer and fewer.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TOOBIN: One of the big changes in state laws over the last two decades are the increasing freedom that is being granted to individuals to carry concealed weapons, to carry publicly of the -- you know, visible -- visible weapons. I mean it -- it is such a sea change in how the law works.

And, you know, I was just in Oklahoma the other day, in Arizona. You just see people carrying guns in public that you didn't used to see.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TOOBIN: And we also now have people like Kyle Rittenhouse, who are appointing themselves, in effect, law enforcement officers in difficult situations with no training.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TOOBIN: And it's a terrifying result, especially in a case like this.

HILL: And there's been a pull back from training in some states, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: I mean Texas is a perfect example.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TOOBIN: You can -- you can use a gun with no training.

HILL: Yes. Yes.

SCIUTTO: And the Supreme Court now considering whether -- whether New York can pass its own law to prevent (ph) this sort of thing.

TOOBIN: Whether it's even permissible to have those laws, that's right.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

It's a big picture point. Thank you.

HILL: Jeff, thanks.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, Travis Scott's attorneys are pushing back on accusations he could have done more to stop the deadly chaos at his Astroworld concert. But we have new details from police about warnings he received.

Plus, a group of Black Lives Matters activists have slammed New York's mayor-elect after meeting on the question of policing. I just spoke with Mayor-elect Adams. You're going to hear his response to that and his plans to tackle crime and economic recovery.

HILL: And a bit later we're joined by an eight-year-old who was one of the first participants in a vaccine trial for kids with Pfizer's vaccine. You'll hear more from her and her mom. What they're saying now that the shot is available for kids five and older.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:09]

SCIUTTO: This happened quickly. As of this morning, at least 58 lawsuits have now been filed in connection with the deadly Astroworld Music Festival. Today we are learning from the Houston Police chief that during the concert, officials told the production staff that someone was receiving CPR and told them, this is crucial, to stop the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF TROY FINNER, HOUSTON POLICE: The ultimate authority to end the show is with production and the entertainer, OK. And that should be through communication with public safety officials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN correspondent Rosa Flores following all the latest developments for us.

So, Rosa, Travis Scott maintains he didn't know what was happening in the crowd. What more are you hearing this morning?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Travis Scott saying that he's angry that this happened. His attorney also saying that most officials, all they're doing is finger pointing and sending mixed messages.

But, here's the deal. At the end of the day, eight people have died here. Two others are in critical condition fighting for their lives, and countless other people were either injured or are still traumatized by this event. That's the case of two individuals, Bryan and Jonathan Espinosa. They spoke to my colleague, John Berman, during "NEW DAY" today talking about that lasting trauma. Bryan saying that he has trouble sleeping. And when John asked him if he thought he was going to make it out alive, here's what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYAN ESPINOZA, INJURED IN STAMPEDE AT TRAVIS SCOTT'S ASTROWORLD CONCERT: I had a 50/50 chance. It was either me living or either dying. I -- at one point I thought I wasn't going to make it.

BERMAN: You know, you guys are, obviously, Travis Scott fans. How much do you hold him responsible?

JONATHAN ESPINOZA, INJURED IN STAMPEDE AT TRAVIS SCOTT'S ASTROWORLD CONCERT: Completely responsible, sir. He had the big microphone out of everybody. And I just think it's crazy how -- how poorly it was -- it was set up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: At least 58 lawsuits have been filed. Most of them claiming negligence.

As for the investigation, the police chief saying yesterday that investigators have gone through hours of tape. They're taking witness statements. And the police chief also saying that ultimately the responsibility to stop the show was on the production and entertainment teams, and that at one point HPD personnel told these production teams that there were one or more people needing CPR and that the show needed to stop.

Now, here's the critical question there, when did this happen? I asked the chief that specific question, and he said that he was not going to go into the timeline.

Now, here's the other thing. The chief also says that there were more than 500 HPD officers that were part of this event, that were at this event. So I asked the obvious question. So, there's more than 500 officers. How do you explain that these 500 officers didn't go to production, didn't take it above production, didn't ask the Houston Fire Department to come in and help?

[09:20:07]

Erica and Jim, these are basic questions that need to be answered because, of course, HPD is investigating.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FLORES: So, HPD could be investigating itself.

HILL: Yes, absolutely.

FLORES: Erica. Jim.

HILL: Rosa, and you continue to do such excellent reporting and continue to press them on those questions. Thank you. We know how important they are.

SCIUTTO: No question. HILL: And I have no doubt that if someone's going to get the answers, it is our friend Rosa Flores.

SCIUTTO: And, listen, if there was a warning, that is material to this. If there was a warning during the show, could they have stopped earlier?

HILL: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: That's the question. Yes.

HILL: Because that's been the big question, why didn't they stop? What would that have changed?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Well, a crew member who worked on the "Rust" movie set has filed a new lawsuit. Several key figures being sued in that filing, including actor Alec Baldwin. Serge Svetnoy, the chief lighting technician on set, accusing the producers and several others of negligence, claiming he is suffering from severe emotional distress.

SCIUTTO: CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam, she's been following this story from the beginning from Los Angeles.

Stephanie, tell us what this lawsuit says, and I wonder if this is perhaps the first of several given his claim of -- particularly of mental stress here.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I wouldn't be surprised, Jim and Erica, if it is the first.

What's interesting, though, about Svetnoy's claim is that he says he was right there when this happened, when this tragic accident happened. In this lawsuit, he says that he was holding Halyna Hutchins as she was dying. That her blood was on his hands as she was there. He's also saying that when the fatal blast went off, that he felt some of the pieces blow off toward him as well. That's also what he's saying here.

This lawsuit from Svetnoy -- and I should note that he was the chief lighting director on the movie "Rust." They're saying that Alec Baldwin is -- was negligent. They're also saying that the assistant director, David Halls, is negligent. They're also naming armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed. Those are just three of some of the people that they're targeting. Others are also named in here as well, saying that they were negligent and that they breached their duties by allowing real ammunition to be stored on set.

And so, obviously, when you see this, it's disturbing to hear from someone in this first account how this happened. But it's also worth noting, too, that we also heard through the attorney of Hannah Gutierrez Reed yesterday doubling down on this idea that there was sabotage. That someone put real ammunition in the dummies box.

However, at this point, the district attorney saying they have no proof that that actually happened at all.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Well, they'll need proof. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.

It is day five of another trial we've been following very closely, that for the murder of Ahmaud Arbery. And the state plans to play the nearly four-hour deposition of Larry English. He owns the home that was under construction was Arbery was initially spotted.

HILL: Prosecutors, yesterday, played a series of 911 calls from two of the men who are charged with killing Arbery. Some of those calls made weeks before the shooting. In one of them, on the day of the shooting, in that call, Travis McMichael reports a suspicious individual in a home under construction. You can hear the 911 dispatcher trying to understand whether Arbery had done anything wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPERATOR: And you said someone's breaking into it right now?

CALLER: No, it's all open. It's under construction. And he's running right now. There he goes right now.

OPERATOR: OK. What is he doing?

CALLER: He's running down the street.

OPERATOR: OK. That's fine. I'll get them out there.

I just need to know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on the premises and he's not supposed to be?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I need to know what he was doing wrong, she asked.

During trial, transcripts of a description of one of the -- that one of the defendants gave police about Arbery's actions that day was read. Arbery's mother responded last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANDA COOPER JONES, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: I kept using the word disturbing. But very, very disturbing. After the day that they called, they initially told me that he had committed a burglary. And then to sit through the trial to find out that Ahmaud actually -- he ran, he fought, he was killed and then was lied on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The defendants claim Arbery had been seen around a home under construction, as you may have heard, but so far there has been no evidence they saw him break into the house or commit a crime. And, regardless, at the end of the day, they kind of appointed themselves police officer, right, to go -- to go track this down. HILL: Just ahead, prices for everyday items skyrocketing. We're going

to take a closer look at how inflation is really hitting Americans, and the pressure that it's putting on President Biden. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:06]

HILL: President Biden set to sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill on Monday. During that ceremony we're told members from both parties will be in attendance. I mean that's very important for the president.

SCIUTTO: Yes, interesting.

HILL: He wants to show that bipartisanship. He was touting the deal yesterday in Baltimore. That visit was planned, but, of course, came just hours after a new inflation report showed consumer prices in this country have surged more than 6 percent in the past year. And that is the sharpest increase in three decades.

SCIUTTO: All right, To put those numbers in perspective right now, the cost of steak is up 24 percent, eggs, 12 percent, mil, 6 percent. I mean stuff you notice when you go grocery shopping.

HILL: Bacon. In all seriousness, bacon really hit home, 20 percent.

SCIUTTO: That stood out to me too, just personally.

HILL: See.

And, of course, we are two weeks away from Thanksgiving.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich was in Iowa recently to hear how inflation is impacting folks there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): There's a chill in the air in Iowa. Winter is coming.

[09:30:01]

JOHN HOSKINS, ANKENY, IOWA, RESIDENT: It's coming. So we put the fireplace on and get a little heat that way instead of turning the furnace up.

YURKEVICH: That's because heating bill for many Iowans could nearly double