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Desperate Afghans Seeking to Flee the Country Face Exorbitant Fees; Biden Participates in Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Leaders' Meeting; HBCUs Could Receive At Least $3 Billion Under Build Back Better Plan. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 12, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:02]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: My next guest has been personally involved in trying to help in particular students and faculty from the American University of Afghanistan to evacuate, many of them women facing increasingly dire restrictions and threats from the Taliban. Kelley DeConciliis, she's a Security and Exfiltration Expert, she joins us now. Kelley, good to have you on the show again.

KELLEY DECONCILIIS, SECURITY AND EXFILTRATION EXPERT: Thank you, Jim. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, first, let's begin with an update of those many hundreds of women and girls who were students and faculty at the American University there, how many have you been able to get out now and how many remain behind?

DECONCILIIS: Sure. So, at the time, Jim, the last time we spoke, we had around 1,000 students and faculty, mostly female, stuck in Afghanistan. We have them stashed in safe houses throughout Kabul. As of today, we have over 400 of them are out of Afghanistan but still 375 are still awaiting relocation.

So, we have girls scattered in over 40 countries. We have them in cities such as Islamabad, Doha and a handful here in the U.S. I will say, Jim, that Qatar has been extremely gracious and generous in accepting our girls, however, but their plight is far from over. The girls' mental health and trauma they've suffered during their escape still haunts them.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's an uncertain future. For those left behind, you've told me stories of the Taliban going door to door. What threat to these women face?

DECONCILIIS: Jim, after the U.S. left, so did the ability to get these girls out. Let's be honest. Even with the best trade craft, it's virtually impossible to move a female through the streets of Kabul with Taliban at every corner. Despite what Taliban propaganda may be putting out to the media, it's forbidden to walk or drive a car without a male accompanying you. The Taliban are ruthless in hunting these girls. There's posters throughout the city, women 20 and older will become property of the Taliban and widows will become their brides.

So, Jim, from a terrorism perspective, the Taliban has proven to be a formidable adversary in this fog of war. I mean, the terrorist organization that has issued, you know, U.S. military weapons in their arsenal, they're using barbaric tactics and techniques to prey on their most vulnerable.

SCIUTTO: I don't want to understate the progress you've made because getting several hundred out is yeoman's work, and you and your group deserve enormous credit for that. But for those left behind -- and, by the way, you know this, the vast majority of, for instance, special immigrant visa applicants, those who work for the U.S. or U.S. contractors, they remain behind.

In your view, is the U.S. failing those people?

DECONCILIIS: I think when the administration said that they closed the door on the longest war in Afghanistan, it left it wide open for Afghanistan to becoming the biggest terrorist hotbed that we've ever seen. So, yes, I do believe it is a failure.

I look at the most vulnerable groups that we have. And I look at them, Jim, in three groups. The first group is Afghans that served side by side with our special operations forces. Reports say that we have close to 300 of them still stuck in Afghanistan. This presents a counterintelligence nightmare for us because these are the people, Jim, that we trained, who hold the specific skill sets and intelligence. And let's know it's only a matter of time before the Taliban find them, flip them, and everyone breaks. It's human nature.

The second thing --

SCIUTTO: I've spoken to -- sorry, go ahead. Because I want to talk about the special forces ones, but tell us the other groups under threat.

DECONCILIIS: Sure. Just kind of -- I look at them in three buckets. So, those are the special commandos. The second group though is one you mentioned earlier, so the Afghans that worked for government contractors and supported the way of the west. The sad statistic is less than 1 percent of these SIVs, special immigrant visas, were able to be evacuated. And then, the third but certainly not least the most vulnerable are the women of Afghanistan.

SCIUTTO: Understood. So, I've spoken, for instance, to Scott Mann, who I know you know, Pineapple Express. They've been trying to lobby Congress for help, in particular, to get those Afghan elite special forces units out. Is that the answer here? If the State Department is not doing this, is there a need now for congressional action?

DECONCILIIS: Absolutely. We need support from the U.S. government. We can't have, you know, private contractors going in without some type of top cover from the U.S. government, State Department and including the White House. A lot of people don't understand you can't just board a flight and leave Afghanistan. There are multiple networks that you have to be able pass through. One of them is the Taliban, State Department, and then where is going to be your final destination. And so it makes it very, very difficult.

Another piece to think about is these girls that we talk about, they can't leave their homes right now for fear of retribution by attending the American University of Afghanistan, which is now occupied by the Haqqani Network.

[10:35:03]

So, Jim, just to kind of paint the picture, the 5,000-square-foot former Women's Economic Empowerment Center, it used to serve as a safe haven for girls to gather and study, it's now the Haqqani's Network main operation center. So, Jim, the irony in all of this --

SCIUTTO: Yes, designated as a terrorist organization.

DECONCILIIS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DECONCILIIS: Absolutely, a terrorist organization, the same Haqqani Network that launched the attack at the university in 2016, killing 15 faculty and students, that is who is now inhabiting it. So, yes.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, Kelley, we know you and your team are doing hard work, and, frankly, particularly those folks on the ground, courageous work. Thank you. We wish you the best of luck. And thanks for coming on.

DECONCILIIS: Thank you, Jim.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: Still ahead, conservatives seizing on historic inflation, pressuring moderate Democrats to not support President Biden's Build Back Better legislation. So, what are the options for President Biden? That's next.

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[10:40:00]

SCIUTTO: This morning, President Biden attended a virtual APEC meeting as world leaders work toward global economic recovery.

E. HILL: Now, this comes, of course, as the supply chain crisis continues to impact surging demandd for backed-up goods around the world. Domestically, President Biden is facing increasing pressure as well when it comes to rising inflation.

We're going to tackle that with CNN's Matt Egan and CNN's John Harwood.

John, let's start with you first, live at the White House. What is the latest plan here for combating inflation and also how this relates to efforts to get Build Back Better moving forward?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the reality, Erica, is that this is more of a political problem for the Biden White House than an economic policy issue to be dealt with. As a matter of policy, the Biden White House already this year has done its most important thing affecting inflation, that American rescue plan, which was very large.

The White House economists acknowledged it fueled demand, which is helping bid prices up. There are some things they can do on the margins to try to smooth out supply chain problems, which are adding to inflation in combination with that demand, but that doesn't help them politically.

The fact is that voters are eroding the president's political standings because they're unhappy. Joe Manchin, the moderate from West Virginia, says he is concerned about inflation and withholding support for the Build Back Better plan. And Republicans are attacking with ads like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Biden just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand just how bad inflation is hurting Americans. If congressional Democrats don't stop Biden and Pelosi's plan, a lot of Americans won't be able to pay their heating bills this winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now, of course, the price of home heating oil this winter has nothing to do with the fate of the Build Back Better plan, nevertheless, that's something that the Biden White House has to get over with Joe Manchin.

There is one thing in the long run that Joe Biden can do to affect inflation, which he has an appointment decision to make about the next chairman of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve, of course, has principal responsibility for overseeing monetary policy and inflation. We do expect that the frontrunner is Jerome Powell, the incumbent, but that's something to watch. A decision could come as early as next week, guys.

SCIUTTO: Matt Egan, you've been working on this. And as John notes, the president doesn't have a magic wand to end inflation. Some of the money pumped into the economy with the COVID relief certainly juiced this, but there's also a global supply problem here. What all has to be considered right now?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Jim and Erica, inflation is clearly here and Americans are definitely not happy about it. We just learned a few minutes ago that consumer sentiment in early November fell to a ten- year low, and that was largely because of inflation. I mean, look at some of these price spikes over the last 12 months, gasoline up 50 percent, used car prices, bacon, beef, T.V.s, all of them are gone higher because supply cannot keep up with demand as the economy reopens.

But, unfortunately, as John said, there's little President Biden can do unilaterally in the short-term to tame inflation. There are some policies he could advocate for that could ease some inflationary pressures. Let me run you through a few of the options. One of them, tariffs. Biden does have the power to remove some of the Trump-era tariffs still in place on China and other countries. We're starting to see some of that with Europe. Also supply chains. As we said, they're a mess. Focusing on clearing up port congestion, getting semiconductors back online, that would help, but that's going to take some time.

Worker shortage, we just learned a few minutes ago that a record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs in September. You could potentially ease the worker shortage through comprehensive immigration reform, which would have to get through Congress, the energy price spike. There's no easy fixes there. And then there's the Fed. In theory, President Biden could show he's serious about inflation by nominating someone who is an inflation hawk. But that is not seen as likely in part because the Fed chairman, Jerome Powell, he does have respect on Wall Street, where investors are not really freaking out about inflation even if everyday Americans are.

Jim and Erica, I think at the end of the day, so much of comes back to COVID because we wouldn't be talking about inflation if it weren't for the pandemic. And it's hard to see inflation getting back to normal until COVID gets tackled.

[10:45:02]

E. HILL: Yes. I mean, there's so much at play here but I think what you highlighted, the labor shortage, its role in the supply chain, and also that, continuing Wall Street/Main Street divide, that tells us a lot. Matt Egan, John Harwood, thank you both.

Still ahead, student protests at Howard University highlighting a dire need on campus. So, after more than a month, how is the school responding? I'll speak with one of the students, next.

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[10:50:00]

E. HILL: The latest draft of President Biden's economic plan, the social safety net bill, includes at least $3 billion in funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Now, that is significantly less than the original proposal but still a record amount of funding, federal funding for HBCUs.

This comes as there has been a spotlight on Howard University, where dozens of students have been protesting now for over a month. They are demanding the school drastically improve their living conditions. Complaints range from toxic mold in the dorms to rat and roach infestations in the dining halls.

Howard university released a statement to CNN saying that the school is committed to transparency and, quote, hopeful the measures we've taken, including listening to and communicating with students, supplementing resources within our residence halls, and inviting elected faculty alumni and student leadership to participate in board committee meetings with voting power will set us on a path toward a peaceful resolution.

Joining us now is Channing Hill, a freshman at Howard who has been part of these protests for weeks.

You heard what we were told in the statement from the university there. I know one of the things that you and your fellow students have really been pushing for is you want to sit down with Dr. Frederick, the president of Howard. You want to have a live in-person town hall where students can ask their questions and hopefully get some answers. Where does that stand?

CHANNING HILL, PRESIDENT, HOWARD UNIVERSITY NAACP CHAPTER: When you read that statement, it took me by surprise, but not a rueful surprise because the university president, Wayne Frederick, said the same thing in his statement, the university address on Friday and essentially said the same thing at his address of the 2018 protests two years ago, that he would like to center and hear from student voices, and I have yet to see that action.

E. HILL: You have a little more experience. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, Channing. I thought you were done. I just wanted to correct myself too. You're a junior, not a freshman, so you have a lot of experience here when you reference what's happened in 2018.

So, you're hearing these words consistently, doesn't sound like you're seeing a lot of action. Why do you think that is? I mean, you have had parents backing these efforts. You have had prominent alumni. You had the Reverend Jesse Jackson weigh in as well. You have had so many people come out in support of what you're asking for. Why do you think there is a resistance to engage with the student community?

C. HILL: I'm not sure. I can't answer for a university president who refuses to speak to his students. I can't give that answer for university administration, who we technically pay. I can't get that answer. But what I can tell you is that the students simply are looking for conversation. Our demands are not demanding, they've never been, to ask a town hall of the university that we go to when there are students who are being made ill, including me, from their dormitories.

And this is not just the 2021 issue. This was an issue in 2019. This was an issue in 2017. This was an issue in 2018. This was an issue all the way back 20 years ago. We saw Hilltop Paper from 2001, the year I was born, talking about mold in the dorms. However, the university still refuses to give transparency and give the appropriate remediation methods that anybody, Betsy Sue from the street, who had mold in her house, could exemplify or give a testimony to what that looks like. It applies to public health and safety matters, but the university just refuses to do it.

E. HILL: The school has said they've addressed a number of the concerns, that there have been cleanings, air sampling and moisture checks, filter changes. It sounds as you don't feel that has made a difference.

It raises a lot of questions. I think it leaves people, to your point that you just made about. You're paying to go to school here. It leaves people scratching their heads as to how this is not being dealt with. You're essentially trying to talk to your landlord to get things fixed.

C. HILL: Right.

E. HILL: Look, I do have a lot more questions about it and we're going to stay on that, but I also want to get your take on what we're seeing in terms of potential federal funding from the federal government. As we know historically, HBCUs have been underfunded pretty much from the beginning.

So, this talk of $3 billion in the Build Back Better plan that could be earmarked for HBCUs, I know you said that you were looking at President Biden's administration as a promising sign in the beginning and specifically pointing out Howard alum, Vice President Kamala Harris, saying she's representing access we hadn't seen before.

[10:55:06]

Do you believe at this point that HBCUs are a priority for the administration, as the president had promised?

C. HILL: I don't see the evidence of that. However, I do see students across the country, not just at Howard, but in the A.C., at Clark, Atlanta's Bowman (ph) Morehouse, saying you need to make sure that we are a priority, because we are representative of your constituents.

And the -- we represent a body of people, a community that had been historically disenfranchised. Howard is, for a very large part, federally funded. So, if it's not evidence enough that we suffer second-class living conditions in our dorms, if that's not evidence enough for the need for more funding for HBCUs, $3 billion is pocket change compared to what was originally on the table, is just --

E. HILL: We're going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. But, Channing, I hope we can stay in touch because this is an issue that, unfortunately, as you know all too well, isn't going away. And so we'd like to stay on it as well. Thanks for your time today.

C. HILL: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. We hope you have a relaxing weekend. We're going to try. I'm Jim Sciutto.

E. HILL: I'm Erica Hill.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after a quick break.

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