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Biden Administration Focuses on Implementing Infrastructure Plan; Defense Rests in Kyle Rittenhouse Trial; Trump Defends January 6 Rioters. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 12, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: "Being Chris Christie" airs Monday 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks for joining us today and this week on INSIDE POLITICS. You have a fantastic weekend. Hope to see you back here on Monday.

Ana Cabrera up our coverage right now. Have a good day.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Friday. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Another no-show, another delay. The January 6 investigation hits more walls. Hours ago, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows snubbed House lawmakers, refusing to show up defying a subpoena, just like Trump ally Steve Bannon did weeks ago.

Now lawmakers are threatening to hold Meadows in contempt of Congress, this, again, just like Bannon. But will either of them ever have to talk? Remember, whether to indict for contempt is ultimately up to Attorney General Merrick Garland. So the proverbial ball is in his court.

Speaking of court, after several losses, former President Trump just got his first minor court victory in his effort to keep documents and other records about January 6 hidden.

And then something truly jaw-dropping, new audio of Trump defending what should be the indefensible, chants to hang or assassinate his then-vice president.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS: Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?"

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape. No, because I had heard he was in very good shape.

But -- but, no, I think...

KARL: Because you heard those chants -- that was terrible. I mean, it was the...

TRUMP: He could have -- well, the people were very angry.

KARL: They were saying, "Hang Mike Pence."

TRUMP: Because it's common sense, Jon. It's common sense that you're supposed to protect. How can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CABRERA: Common sense.

We will talk about that in just a moment.

But, first, CNN's Kara Scannell is covering all the legal developments today.

Kara, first, what happens next with Mark Meadows?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, the question now is, will the House committee follow through on its threat to move to try to hold Meadows in contempt?

As you noted, they already did this with Steve Bannon. They made a criminal referral to the Justice Department. And they have been waiting now for three weeks for DOJ to act. They have not moved yet. And Meadows' attorney is saying that, even if he wanted to go in and testify, he really can't because of this open question about executive privilege.

That now has moved to the federal appeals court, as we discussed yesterday. And so there's a lot of balls in the air here. But the main one being for Meadows, at least for now, is whether the House will move to vote and move this along to the Justice Department for a referral. We have not heard any response from the House yet today after Meadows didn't show -- Ana.

CABRERA: We did have that letter from Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the committee, last night, though, as you refer to, saying that they plan to move forward with a criminal contempt referral.

So let's talk about the documents now that Trump wants to keep hidden. They're caught up in a legal, I guess, procedural maneuver here. What is next for this court battle?

SCANNELL: Well, so the appeals court yesterday agreeing to just momentarily pause the transfer of documents from the National Archives to the House committee. Those were due today.

Now they're on hold, because the committee is saying that they will he arguments in this. They set out a pretty fast briefing schedule. Trump's lawyers will have to file their first brief on Tuesday. Then the House will have almost a week to respond. Their response will be due the following Monday. And then, two days later, Trump's reply is due. The court has scheduled oral arguments in this for November 30. So we could see them move quickly and make a decision. The three judges on this panel were all appointed by Democrats, two from President Obama, one from President Biden. And this all gets to this issue of executive privilege, where former President Trump has been trying to assert over these 46 documents.

They include everything from visitor logs, chat logs, drafts of speeches, and notes from Mark Meadows, three handwritten notes that he had taken. So that's all something for the court to consider.

And, of course, as the former president has done in the past, if he happens to lose this next round, it's very likely he will try to take this to the Supreme Court -- Ana.

CABRERA: Kara Scannell, thank you so much for being on top of all of it.

With us now is CNN senior legal analyst and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York Elie Honig and former Republican Congressman from Illinois Joe Walsh.

Guys, thank you both for being here. So much has happened in the last 24 hours, tons to discuss.

Let's start with the audio, Congressman Walsh. When you thought you had heard it all, now on tape you have Trump defending the rioters' chants to hang Mike Pence. Your reaction.

FMR. REP. JOE WALSH (R-IL): Ana, not at all surprised. And nobody should be surprised.

It's just another vivid reminder that the former president of the United States is incapable -- I mean that, Ana -- humanly incapable of caring about anyone or anything but himself. Is Mike Pence's life in danger? Trump doesn't give a damn. The election was stolen. Might Mike Pence, the vice president of the United States, be hung? Donald Trump doesn't give a damn. The election was rigged.

[13:05:27]

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: And yet Pence continues to have allegiance to Trump.

WALSH: And yet, Ana, he still does. I mean, Mike Pence still does, because Mike Pence wants to run for president in 2024.

It's a scary, stark reminder that this is still Donald Trump's party.

CABRERA: So, Elie, this tape that we have all heard, it has been publicized, is this new evidence for the January 6 investigation? And could there be further legal implications?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely, Ana. And what better reminder of the importance the work that the Congress is doing and really that DOJ needs to be doing as well? I mean, talk about just sheer madness, the sheer danger behind the president, who's endorsing, apologizing, making excuses for people who are trying to find and harm his own vice president. It's unprecedented.

Now, this reminds us, Congress -- look, Congress has been aggressive. The committee is going out there issuing wave upon wave of subpoena, and they have shown some willingness to fight in the courts to enforce those subpoenas.

But it really puts the impetus over on the Justice Department. A, will DOJ back up the committee by bringing contempt charges? And, B, what is DOJ doing in terms of a criminal investigation? I know they have charged 600-plus people who went into the Capitol, but to look at people above that who may have inspired this and incited this.

CABRERA: But even though, when we have seen it reach the courts, after DOJ moves forward, you have been arguing it really is so critical for the courts to move quickly in order to uncover the facts.

Why do you think the appeals court hit pause on the release of the Trump records from the National Archives?

HONIG: So, this stay, it's really important that people understand.

I understand there's impatience out there. I have been impatient with the way things have gone in court. But a stay like this, there's nothing abnormal about it. There's really nothing unreasonable about it. The court of appeals said, hang on. Before those records go out, we need to have our say, as the court of appeals. We want a briefing, and we're going to issue a full ruling.

That's going to only take a matter of weeks. The schedule that Kara just laid out, that is lightning fast. And it's good to see that. Our courts can get important decisions briefed and decided in a couple of weeks. And the ultimate effect of this, I'm quite confident the court of appeals is going to rule against Donald Trump's executive privilege claim.

And if that's going to happen, it's better longer term that we have a full briefing and a full binding decision from the court of appeals.

CABRERA: But, still, this delay just reinforces the Trump strategy to keep fighting it through the legal system, in the hopes of continuing to delay, delay, delay.

And now you have his former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows just refusing to show up for his interview with the January 6 Committee today. He says he will wait for the courts to rule on executive privilege.

Congressman, he was initially engaging with the committee. Why do you think he's playing hardball now?

WALSH: Ana, this is a reminder. And we always have to take a step back and remind ourselves that, on January 6, our democracy was attacked. I mean, think about that. And you would think, naturally, that every single American would want to investigate that attack, and nobody would want to impede any kind of investigation into that attack.

But yet we have the former president, we have everybody who worked for the former president, and we have the Republicans doing everything they can do not to get to the bottom of it. I just continue, Ana, to believe that, look, this is a wakeup call again to Democrats in the committee.

Meadows and Trump and everybody are going to do whatever they can do to not get to the bottom of this.

CABRERA: Elie, the House panel is arguing that there's no legal basis, no valid legal basis for Mr. Meadows' continued resistance. Meadows' attorney, however, argues Mr. Meadows remains under the instructions of former President Trump to respect executive privilege.

That was the Bannon argument. Congress held him in contempt. And yet, back to full circle here, the Justice Department hasn't moved forward with prosecution.

HONIG: Yes, Ana, and this is why it's so important not just that the DOJ act, but they need to act with a little bit of speed here, right? It's going on three, I think we're going on for weeks soon.

And whatever Merrick Garland decides to do with Steve Bannon, that line of people who is going to defy the subpoenas, that's just starting to form. We have got Bannon. Now we have got Meadows. It seems like we have got Jeffrey Clark, Dan Scavino, Bernie Kerik, others just waiting to get on that line.

You think Stephen Miller, you think Kayleigh McEnany are going to comply voluntarily with any of this? I doubt it.

[13:10:03]

And if Bannon -- excuse me -- if Garland is not willing to charge Steve Bannon, is not willing to put his foot down and back up Congress, that line is going to go around the corner and the January 6 Committee's never going to get the full picture of what happened here.

CABRERA: It is Friday. Anything can happen on a Friday, as we have seen over the past several years. So, stay close, everybody. Who knows if Garland will weigh in here in the next hour? Maybe he's been listening.

Thank you, guys, very much, Elie Honig and Congressman Joe Walsh.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: I really appreciate you both. Happy Friday.

It will be a long weekend of waiting for Kyle Rittenhouse and the families of the three men he shot during a night of unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin. On Monday, attorneys will deliver their closing arguments in the double homicide trial.

And, if convicted, the 18-year-old could spend the rest of his life in prison.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is in Kenosha.

Shimon, walk us through this. How will this unfold?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

So, right now, just so our viewers know, the attorneys are in court with the judge. They're arguing -- in fact, the prosecutors at some point, probably not surprising to many, are sparring with the judge over some of the charges, some of the instructions that he's going to give the jury, very important.

And some of this is a little complicated because this is a self- defense case. So there are specific charges that need to go -- specific instructions that need to go to the jury. So that's what's going on today.

But, as you said, for Monday, the attorneys certainly are going to be spending the weekend writing their closing arguments, the judge giving them -- each side giving them two-and-a-half-hours each. The defense attorneys will go first. Then, obviously, there will be prosecutors.

And then there's perhaps more -- I should say, then there's going to be about two-and-a-half-hours. The judge says he's going to give them about a 45-minute instruction to the jury on Monday, so a long morning, certainly for the jurors.

And just to remind people some of the charges that Kyle Rittenhouse is facing and that the jury is going to consider, these are charges that are related to the death of Joseph Rosenbaum, the death of Anthony Huber. These are first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide, attempted first-degree intentional homicide, two counts of first-degree reckless endangering safety.

And then there's that possession charge for that weapon, the AR-15 style, because he was 17 years old at the time, so many charges. And, obviously, there's going to be some very specific instructions that are going to have to be given to the jury because of the self-defense claim, Ana.

CABRERA: Shimon Prokupecz, thank you. You have been doing a great job bringing us the play-by-play.

Let's bring in CNN legal analyst and civil rights attorney Areva Martin now.

Areva, let's fast forward to Monday morning. Does the prosecution or the defense have more of an uphill climb to convince this jury?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Ana. I think the prosecution in this case does. This case, at least when it started, was about this vigilante-type person, Kyle Rittenhouse, who inserted himself into this volatile situation and was the aggressor, shooting two people, wounding -- shooting and killing two people and wounding a third person.

But what we have seen over the last couple of days are defense witnesses that have come forward to corroborate the self-defense argument that has been put forth by the Rittenhouse team. We saw that last witness, Drew Hernandez, come forward and say he saw Mr. Rosenbaum charge at Kyle Rittenhouse. He saw Mr. Rosenbaum acting in an aggressive and violent manner, all supporting of Kyle Rittenhouse's statement or his testimony that he had no choice but to shoot Mr. Rosenbaum because he feared for his life.

So I think there are some holes in the prosecutor's case, that they're going to have to show this jury that this case is really about this teenager who was in illegal possession of a gun, inserted himself in a situation which he had no experience, no expertise, and acted recklessly and, as prosecutors want these jurors to find, that he intentionally murdered two people.

CABRERA: Right, because, in Wisconsin, the law is, in a self-defense case, that the prosecution has the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self-defense when he fired that weapon, right?

And Kyle Rittenhouse's mom raised some eyebrows last night in an interview on FOX News. Here's this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Have you and your son discussed whether or not, if he had to do it over again, he would go into a situation like that?

WENDY RITTENHOUSE, MOTHER OF KYLE RITTENHOUSE: With Kyle, I know him. And he probably would do it again, because that's the type of person he is. He always wants to help people even since he was a little boy. That's all he wanted to do was help people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Presumably, the jurors are following instructions. They won't see that.

But the facts are, two people are dead. A third was seriously wounded. Is that the right message to send right now?

MARTIN: Absolutely not, Ana. I don't even know why his mother would be on TV giving any kind of interview, given the seriousness of the charges that her son faces.

[13:15:04]

And that's the narrative that the defense has been trying to paint, that Kyle Rittenhouse was almost like a Boy Scout, Boy Scout, that he went into Wisconsin with the intentions of providing medical care.

But the problem with that argument is, he wasn't an EMT. He wasn't a medic. He had no training in providing medical care. And even that used car dealership that he said he was there protecting, we saw through the videotape throughout the trial that he didn't remain there, that he actually walked into the streets. He walked into those volatile situations.

So this narrative that he was there to help is something that the defense has been pushing really hard. But the prosecution has been pushing back on that.

CABRERA: Real quick, Areva, the judge in this case has commanded a lot of the spotlight with his anger, some controversial rulings, some head-scratching remarks, to be kind.

Here's what he said leading into yesterday's lunch break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE BRUCE SCHROEDER, KENOSHA COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Let's hope for 1:00. I don't know. The -- hope the Asian food isn't coming -- isn't on one of those boats in Long Beach Harbor. But let's aim for 1:00.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Well, he appeared to be alluding to supply chain issues there, a traffic jam of cargo ships.

Asian groups took offense. What do you think about the judge's conduct in this trial?

MARTIN: I think it's been reprehensible from the beginning, some of his rulings, not allowing the prosecution to call the two men that died victims and the man that was shot victims, but allowing the defense to use the term rioters and looters.

And on the same day that he makes this clearly bigoted statement that was offensive and should be offensive to Asian Americans, he also applauded one of the defense witnesses, that use of force witness, he called him out as a veteran, applauded him before the jurors, giving the impression that somehow this witness is demanding of more deference than some of the other witnesses.

So I just think he has inserted himself into this trial in a way that is not appropriate for a judge, and he's really become a drama king that has forced a lot of attention onto him, when it really should be on the facts and the evidence of this case.

CABRERA: Areva Martin, thank you so much for being there for us throughout this trial. We will see what happens come Monday.

MARTIN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Soon, President Biden will meet with his closest advisers on camera as he tries to sell his agenda amid rising inflation and supply chain issues, all this as we just learned a record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs just a couple of months ago.

Plus, a shocking comment sparking new accusations of racism in the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial, an attorney for one of the defendants telling the court -- quote -- "We don't want any more black pastors coming in here."

And today is the day Britney Spears could become totally free from a conservator.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:19]

CABRERA: Vice President Kamala Harris joining President Biden today in acknowledging the impact inflation is having on Americans, calling rising prices, a big deal and a source of stress for families.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is at the White House for us.

And, Phil, President Biden set to meet with his Cabinet in just about an hour or so to discuss implementing his already-passed bipartisan infrastructure bill, the one he's going to sign officially on Monday.

This administration has argued that that bill, along with the broader economic package, will slow rapid price increases. So how is the president approaching this very tenuous moment?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ana, I think we're going to hear from the president in a short his kind of framing of two things, one, understanding and, two, action, understanding because, as you noted, from Vice President Kamala Harris, there's a recognition inside the White House that the price increases hitting a 30-year high are very real, they bite and they have an actual impact on everyday Americans.

And the administration has moved quickly over the course of the last few days to acknowledge that publicly, not talk about them as a temporary issue, not talk about them purely through the lens of something driven only by a post-pandemic economy that will eventually go away, but something that's very real.

And then, on the action side, it's what they're doing to try and address those and how the president's $3 trillion domestic agenda can play a role in that. As you noted, a big focus of this Cabinet meeting will be on the implementation of that $1.2 trillion infrastructure proposal, several Cabinet officials taking key responsibilities in that implementation and the oversight, ensuring that the money actually goes out in a timely manner and in a transparent manner.

But, also, the second piece of the agenda still waiting for Congress to act. The House is expected to act as soon as next week on that $2 trillion economic and climate package, something the administration, in making the case for it, believes, at least over the long term, would bring prices down. That's what you're going to hear from the president today, a pitch

that he hoped doesn't just resonate with the American people, but also with certain central senators like Joe Manchin.

CABRERA: Phil Mattingly at the White House, thank you.

With the White House admitting surging prices are -- quote -- "worrisome" and a big deal, this number released just this morning is head-scratching. The Labor Department reporting that a record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs in September.

CNN's Matt Egan is joining us now.

Matt, it seems counterintuitive. With prices going up, one would think people would really need jobs and an income right now. So how do you square this?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS LEAD WRITER: Well, Ana, there's no doubt inflation is here. And it is definitely upsetting everyday Americans, but at the same time COVID has reshaped the way people think about work.

Americans are demanding more pay, better benefits and more flexible working arrangements. And, frankly, a lot of people are just burned out right now. And so we have seen 4.4 million Americans quit their job in September. It's a staggering figure, especially when you consider the fact that the prior record was set just a month ago.

[13:25:09]

And look at some of the sectors that have been hit the hardest by people quitting, arts and entertainment, the service sector, state and local government as well. The key is that businesses are desperate to hire. They're desperate to fill all these open positions.

And so that gives workers incredible leverage. And they know it, and they're not shy to use it. In the long run, this is a good thing, in the sense that employees can find careers that they like more, that businesses will have happier employees. Maybe we could chip away at inequality.

But in the short run, this is going to complicate the reopening of the economy, the supply chain, and, of course, inflation.

CABRERA: And now Americans are also facing an extraordinary real estate market. According to the National Association of Realtors, homes are selling at a record pace, with about half of them going under contract within a week of hitting the market.

That's crazy. What's behind this, Matt?

EGAN: Well, Ana, simply put, there's not enough homes to meet soaring demand.

Americans are reaching out and trying to grab whatever homes are on the market before someone else takes them. We have seen just a really hot housing market. There's all-cash bidding wars. People are buying homes before even setting foot in them.

And, yes, there's this rapid turnover with homes only staying on the market for one week. That was -- that's down from three weeks in the last few years and 10, 11 weeks right after the Great Recession. There's a few other stats I want to show you just that really underscore how hot this housing market is.

The median home price is up 16 percent from a year ago. Believe it or not, that's actually a deceleration from the second quarter. Prices are up in 99 percent of all markets. The median home is selling for a record 100 percent of asking price, and 35 percent of homes are selling above asking price.

Now, this is all great news if you're trying to sell your home. Arguably, there's never been a better time to do this. But, Ana, you got to feel for the first-time homebuyers, the people who are relocating. Some of them are just giving up and they're renting instead.

And that is pushing up rental rates in many markets.

CABRERA: Oh, my goodness. It's a never-ending cycle. Good to be a seller, but those sellers eventually need to be in another home. And they will be buyers too. So they're feeling it no matter what part of the equation you are in.

Thank you so much, Matt, for laying it out for us.

EGAN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next: a shocking objection from the attorney of one of the three white men charged with injuring -- I should say, murdering black jogger Ahmaud Arbery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN GOUGH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We don't want any more black pastors coming in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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