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Mark Meadows Defies Subpoena, Fails To Appear Before Jan. 6 Committee; Family, Friends Remember 16-Year-Old Astroworld Victim; World Leaders Reach Agreement At U.N. Climate Summit; Tensions High Amid Poland/Belarus Border Standoff, Migrants Stranded; Final Episode Of "Diana" Airs Tomorrow Night At 9:00 P.M. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 13, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:37]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

A notice to those who attempt to dodge the January 6 Committee, the game has changed. A federal grand jury has now indicted former Trump adviser Steve Bannon for criminal contempt of Congress for ignoring a subpoena and a conviction could result in jail time. The committee believes Bannon is holding back key information on the January 6 insurrection. That's partly because of what he said to a national audience on January 5th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOSE SENIOR STRATEGIST: All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. It's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, OK. It's going to be quite extraordinarily different. And all I can say is strap in. The war room, a posse, you have made this happen, and tomorrow it's game day. So strap in.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Strap in, indeed. Bannon's indictment may not lead to him testifying before the committee, but it does leave other witnesses a choice. Share what you know or face the potential threat of jail. Friday just before Bannon was indicted, former Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows was a no show for a deposition. The committee did not appreciate that.

And CNN's Evan Perez joins me now.

The committee is, I mean, we've seen this play out a few times where they say well, we're going to consider these contempt charges, but they did take that route with Steve Bannon. So, I mean, they have foreshadowed what's going to take place potentially with Mark Meadows.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I mean, this is a step that, as you said, they often threaten and we rarely get to this point. I mean, it's been, we have to go back to the Reagan administration for us to find an example of the Justice Department prosecuting somebody for obstruction of Congress. And that's what we have at play here.

This is one reason why frankly it took three weeks for the Justice Department -- I think a lot of people are complaining about how long it took. You know, this is not -- these are rare cases. And you heard from the committee immediately after saying that this is, that this shows you that there's a rule of law to play a role here and that they will not hesitate to use all the tools at their disposal to try to get information.

One of the problems for this committee is that you can hear the clock ticking, right? They know that perhaps in about 14 months, the Republicans will be in charge of the House, at least, and they will probably are going to end this investigation, so they need information and they need information as soon as possible.

This now is in the hands of a judge. This case of Steve Bannon. He's going to turn himself in on Monday and then we're going to start, getting start to get towards a trial. That could take a long time. And we don't think he'll ever provide the information unless they can reach some kind of accommodation. And from what you saw in the clip, Steve Bannon is not looking to make a deal with these guys.

ACOSTA: No, he's looking to make a show. I mean, he sees himself --

PEREZ: This is good for his podcast.

ACOSTA: This is good for his podcast. And, you know, I think he wants to go down, in his mind, as some kind of political prisoner in all of this.

PEREZ: Yes. Absolutely. And the penalty, you know, is at least, you know, a minimum of 30 days in jail, in prison. Up to a year and then there's a fine. But this is now litigation that's about whether the former president has the ability to shield his former officials or in this case, a podcaster, under his, under his blanket of executive privilege when the current office holder, the president, the one current president that was have, is saying that no, it doesn't apply. So it's going to be a novel issue that's going to be decided probably by the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: All right. Evan Perez, we'll be watching. We know you will as well. Thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN senior political analyst and former adviser to four president, David Gergen, and with me in Washington, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.

David, the big question now is whether this indictment will actually scare people like Mark Meadows into cooperating. I mean, Meadows, we saw, refused to testify yesterday. Do you think he's regretting that now? I mean part of me thinks this is just another trolling opportunity for, you know, everybody in Trump world.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely, Jim. And I think there were people with different interests here. In Steve Bannon's case, you know, he does want to go out as a martyr. He wants to go out as someone who's been more for Trump than anybody else except Trump. He gets back in the inner circle. He had -- maybe spends 30 days in jail. Make a mockery of that of course.

[16:05:05]

He'll indicate that he's -- and he'll say I'm a martyr and you're treating me unfairly, and he'll get a lot of people in the Republican base supporting him. Mark Meadows is, you know, he's more of a standard lawyer type. And he doesn't want to go to jail. I think he's more likely to talk or at least indicate things than Bannon is. I think Bannon is still playing for the grand stands.

What I don't understand, maybe (INAUDIBLE), is when Bannon goes in on Monday, he has to present himself, and he has to then give over documents. That documents that are in question. Do you think that's a big deal? Because it sounds like a big deal in the ordinary course of things in the wh. But because this is sort of (INAUDIBLE) I don't know whether Bannon was expected to have a lot of documents that might be revealing or not.

ACOSTA: I mean, I think that's certainly a huge question in all of this. And Elliot, the House Committee tweeted about Meadows refusing to cooperate. And I thought this was interesting, and let me put this up on screen. It said, "Mr. Meadows has failed to answer even the most basic questions including whether he was using a private cell phone to communicate on January 6th and where his text messages from that day are."

I guess you're , well aware like a lot of folks in Washington that Mark Meadows spends a lot of time on his cell phone texting people. Are they -- I suppose they're suggesting that he may have destroyed some important communications. And what do you make of that and then just overall, what is happening with Steve Bannon right now?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Ah, the plot thickens, Jim. So, you know, I saw that tweet and thought two things. Number one, either they have evidence or information from documents or another witness to suggest they have another cell phone as many government people do, as a means of circumventing, getting away from being scrutinized or that they have reason to believe that he deleted and destroyed text messages, which if he did, number one, that's obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress, both of which are serious crimes, far beyond this misdemeanor of simply obstructing Congress.

So it's pretty serious, but again, they've been talking to a number of other witnesses and I think they probably know more than we know right now. Now what this means for Steve Bannon, these are very, very different cases. Steve Bannon has a historically weak case. I mean, all of these are historic right now.

ACOSTA: Right.

WILLIAMS: Meadows is just in a better position as a former White House chief of staff. ACOSTA: Yes. And David, some Mike Pence staffers are willing to

voluntarily cooperate from what we understand with the committee and if they detail communications they had with the White House during the Capitol siege. I suppose that could fill in the gaps while they wait on Meadows and these Trump documents. But, I mean, we can't wait forever. I mean, this is just taking so much time. We're coming up on a year since January 6th.

GERGEN: Exactly. And they're clearly playing for time. Wait out the midterms and see if they can't change everything. But I find this Pence story really, really interesting. If the Pence people break and they go in and say here's what really happened and they throw Trump under the bus, just think of what the implications of that will be for 2014 on the Republican side. You know, there could be a war within the Republican Party if Meadows puts down the president.

ACOSTA: Yes. Well, I mean, that is, I mean, Trump did throw Pence to the lions, so I suppose turnabout is --

GERGEN: Yes.

ACOSTA: Is fair play. And Elliot, there's now an arrest warrant for Steve Bannon. He's expected to turn himself in on Monday. The Justice Department gave Bannon the weekend to go get a steak? I mean, what's happening here?

WILLIAMS: Believe it or not, that's actually not that uncommon. The indictment only came down Friday afternoon. He's turning himself in on Monday. The reasons why the Justice Department would immediately seek to lock somebody, you know, knock with agents on his door in the middle of the night which is what you see in the movies or so on is, number one, if he really poses a serious risk of flight or if there's really a chance of violence or a threat to the public now.

Now I know many people might regard Steve Bannon as a serious threat to the public, but at the end of the day in terms of criminal defendants, he is just not and he's likely to turn himself in on Monday. They have no reason to believe that he wouldn't. So I wouldn't read too much into that decision. It's pretty basic.

For this ministerial, it's a really basic hearing. He's going to come in, say he's not guilty, hear are the charges against him and walk out. It's just not.

ACOSTA: Right. And David, last hour I spoke with the former Trump White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham. And you know, she resigned on January 6th. People might not, you know, have warm fuzzies for Stephanie Grisham anymore, but she was there, you know, when a lot of this was building up and here's what she said about the subpoena fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: The former president is going to tell everybody to continue to stall. They're going to fundraise off of this. Bannon himself, absolutely, I think is going to wear this as a badge of honor and martyr himself almost. You know, this is a very small example compared to what's going on, but I recall in the White House when we would get Hatch Act violations.

That was a badge of honor. It was a joke in the White House. And, you know, the president used to say to us, you know who's in charge of the Hatch Act? It's me. Go ahead. Say whatever you want to say.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[16:10:01]

ACOSTA: Yes, David, two things I'm hearing from Stephanie Grisham there. First, the lawlessness that went on in the administration, which they sort of thought was fun and part of the act. Part of the reason why they were there. And then also the sense of victimhood, that, you know, this plays into the sense of victimhood. We're being persecuted now because we're standing by the former president, the dear leader.

GERGEN: Oh, yes. Spare us, spare us all of the agony. Listen, I think if you stand back from all of this, you know, the big question we've been asking ourselves over the last two years is, can our democracy survive? I think with, you know, indicting Bannon and threatening him with jail, and making him putting other people into the Justice Department is really helpful in strengthening our democracy.

It sends a very clear message that when you get an indictment come in from the U.S. federal government, you better obey it or otherwise you'll pay a price and so will some of your associates. So I think it's a very healthy step. We ought to see where it all goes.

ACOSTA: Right. Elliot, I mean, that to me is the important thing because, you know, what is the point of a congressional subpoena if it can't be enforced? I mean, we were staring at the prospect of I guess the Justice Department just saying well, congressional subpoenas don't mean anything anymore.

WILLIAMS: And what former President Trump spent most of his four years making clear that he did not believe that congressional subpoenas were serious or valid. Look, I work for --

ACOSTA: So why have them?

WILLIAMS: Right. No, but look, I worked for both Congress and the Justice Department. I think people have this sense that Congress just names post offices and so on. It's an investigative body that has the power, duty, and frankly, the right to look into wrongdoing in the executive branch. And so we need as a nation to believe that once subpoenas are issued by Congress they're going to be enforced and respected and the Justice Department is going to crack down on them when people violate the law.

So this is a very important step. Now you can't do it every time simply because it wouldn't be efficient and you're not going to win every criminal case, but this clearly in the case of Steve Bannon was an important signal for the Justice Department.

ACOSTA: Right. The judicial branch to decide whether or not this merits anything.

And David, this week, new audio emerged of Trump essentially defending the rioters who chanted hang Mike Pence. Maybe the least shocking thing that has surfaced this week but let's -- it's surprising but not shocking or shocking, however that expression goes. So let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, AUTHOR, "BETRAYAL": Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: No, I thought he was well-protected and I had heard that he was in good shape, no. Now I think --

KARL: Because you heard those chants. That was terrible. I mean, those, you know, the --

TRUMP: He could have -- well, the people are very angry.

KARL: They're saying "Hang Mike Pence."

TRUMP: Because it's common sense, Jon. It's common sense that you're supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you think, David? I mean, is that evidence, do you think?

GERGEN: It comes very, very close. Elliot would be a better judge of that than I would be. What it also suggests to me is that there's really bad blood now in the Trump campaign and the Pence camp. That, you know, looking to run for president in 2024 and I think this gives people, Pence and his staff incentive to put a knife into some of the Trump people and the idea to have this civil war within the Republican Party over these kind of issues because, you know, most people in the Republican Party are rallying to Trump's side, but there are going to be some who are going break off now (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: Isn't that fight necessary, though -- isn't that fight necessary for the sake of the Republican Party?

GERGEN: Yes, that's a very good point. Yes, I do think they need to purge and just get the poison out of its system. And get back to the sort of John Kasichs of the world and Mitt Romneys and others. There are a lot of people in the Republican Party who would like to restore the sort of old-fashioned party, if I might call it that.

ACOSTA: And you may do that. All right, David Gergen. Elliot Williams.

GERGEN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: We do remember that Republican Party. It did exist at one time for our younger viewers out there.

GERGEN: It did. We just buried Colin Powell. We got to remember where he was. He was with the Republicans that broke off.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. You're absolutely right about that. The party left him.

All right, David Gergen, Elliot, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Still to come, more than 90 lawsuits have so far been filed after the deadly crowd surge at the Astroworld Festival in Houston. Where are we in terms of that investigation? What are we learning about the investigation as friends and family say their final good-byes?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:49]

ACOSTA: It's not a stretch to say we are living in an era of political violence in this country. The question isn't whether it gets worse based on the evidence that almost certainly seems to be the case. It's whether this country is going to do anything about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) traitor. That's what you are. You're a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) piece of traitor.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That's the voicemail left for Republican Congressman Fred Upton after he voted with a dozen other GOP lawmakers in the House for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Upton received that threatening call after Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared to incite some kind of backlash against her colleagues when she tweeted out the names and yes, even the phone numbers of the 13 GOP House members who voted for the infrastructure bill.

Not to be outdone, Republican Congressman Paul Gosar tweeted out an anime showing him killing Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez and attacking President Biden. Gosar's own sister says her brother is out of control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GOSAR, SISTER OF REP. PAUL GOSAR: And then this is something that I have to openly wonder. Does he have to act on it himself before we believe he is an absolute -- he's a sociopath. Where is the accountability?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[16:20:01] ACOSTA: Where is the accountability indeed. The truth is we have seen this movie before. Not the creepy anime version, but the plot lines are familiar. Trump supporters have been churning out violent memes for years now. This one shows the then president massacring members of the news media. Ask some of our nation's top scientists, ask election officials, as members of Congress, ask journalists. They'll tell you about all the death threats they've received for years now.

But much of what they have experienced boils down to this. You cross Trump, you come into the crosshairs of some fringe characters on the far right and they can open up the floodgates of hatred and intimidation on you.

How many times does this need to happen before we all agree on what it is? Incitement. And the reason it keeps happening is that there has been zero accountability for those who do the inciting. Zero. The end result is an incentive structure for political threats and violence in this country. As long as that incentive structure exists, it will keep happening. GOP leaders have made it all too clear they are not going to clean up their own house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you become speaker, will you be a different kind of speaker? That is a speaker who doesn't go to war with conservatives, but a speaker who embraces them and wants to hear from them and wants to encourage them?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I believe that's the type of leader I am right now that I know within this party, we want to make sure that it's about addition, not subtraction.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: No subtraction for Gosar, no subtraction for Marjorie Taylor Greene? But this goes way beyond Kevin McCarthy. It's been nearly 11 months since the insurrection. 11 months. The January 6 Committee has been stymied by the refusal of Trump associates to cooperate with the investigation. But perhaps that stonewalling is coming to an end.

Steve Bannon who predicted, quote, "all hell is going to break lose," one day before the insurrection has now been indicted. He's scheduled to appear in court on Monday. I'm not sure Bannon is going to mellow after this considering what Bannon said on his podcast the same day his indictment was announced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BANNON: Remember, there are no whining and no tears in the war room. We're taking action and that actions we're taking over school boards, we're taking over the Republican Party, the precinct committee strategy, we're taking over all the elections. Suck on this.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: We're taking over all the elections. The same day he's indicted. Still, Attorney General Merrick Garland is sending a signal to all of those Trump aides and advisers who are thumbing their nose at the committee. We'll see if Trump world goes from let's go, Brandon to oh, no, Bannon. But it may take more, a lot more than a couple of orange jumpsuits to jump-start this investigation.

I have to say, it's kind of amazing that these Trump associates are stubbornly silent even as their dear leader is talking. Even defended those chants of "Hang Mike Pence" on January 6th to ABC's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Because you heard those chants. That was terrible. I mean, those, you know, the --

TRUMP: He could have -- well, the people are very angry.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I love the way Axios broke it all down for us. Put this up on screen. "Former President Trump in a taped interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News that was shared with Axios defended quite extensively supporters who threatened to hang former Vice President Mike Pence. Why it matters? Well, it is unprecedented for a former president to openly say it was OK to threaten the life of his vice president."

Yes. That matters. I mean, Axios could have written it this way. Former President Trump in a taped interview defends coup attempt. Why it matters? Because coups are bad. What's amazing is that Trump basically tweeted all of this back on January 6th. Put this up on screen. "These are the things and events that happened when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long."

As dishonest as Trump can be, he can be remarkably candid. Which begs the question, isn't it time for the attorney general to target Trump? Ask him. What he was doing, pressuring those election officials and his own vice president to overturn the election results? You know he wants to talk. You know he wants to be put on that stand. Maybe he'll shed some tears in the hopes of swaying the jury. He seems to be saying he only acted in self-defense.

Perhaps he'll get a judge whose ring tone sounds like a song from a Trump rally. Perhaps he'll tell an inappropriate joke. Just so you know where he stands.

If our system of justice cannot stop the likes of Trump from attacking our democracy through threats and intimidation like a mob boss or even using outright violence, what's to stop it from happening again? This democracy is only as strong as the people willing to protect it and if we don't protect it, we'll be letting it happen again.

[16:25:01]

What's worse, storming the Capitol or letting them get away with it? Let's go, Department of Justice. We've been waiting on you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Today in Houston friends and family are saying good-bye to one of the youngest victims in last week's Astroworld concert tragedy. Brianna Rodriguez was a 16-year-old junior in high school. She was among the nine people who died after concertgoers were crushed and trampled during a crowd surge.

CNN's Natasha Chen is Houston for us.

[16:30:00]

Natasha, the sadness is just overwhelming coming out of this tragedy. It's just awful.

There's still the overarching question of how this happened in the first place. The lawsuits are piling up. I suppose that might help get us some answers in all of this.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, there are a lot of questions here, especially for those families who are hurting so much right now.

You mentioned 16-year-old Brianna Rodriquez. She is one of nine people who died, really young. A lot of them are being remembered him at a memorial along the fence here.

This is the fence to the green lot close to where the concert happened.

And when we reviewed the timeline released by the Houston Fire Department just a day or two ago, they did mention this green lot and the fence multiple times.

Talking about people rushing this fence, going under the fence, coming through this area with no wristband. So it was a very chaotic scene.

And of course, now there are friends and family coming up leaving flowers, leaving Bibles, leaving notes.

Today, earlier, we were at the service for Brianna Rodriguez where we met with Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee talking about what she was learning about this young person at the service.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): This is an incident that has touched our souls. Our hearts are broken, but our souls have been touched.

Brianna and those who will be buried and the funerals in these days and weeks to come. One broken family after another to know this community will rally around them. And we won't leave them.

I think that whatever resources that we can provide to ensure that the layers of participants are thoroughly investigated, what should be our goal? For this to never happen again?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And earlier, we were talking about the fire department's log of information. The descriptions of people rushing fences and people getting crushed.

That was happening throughout the day. Not just in the evening. We saw that log starting from the morning hours. This was a 12-plus-hour situation with medics being called throughout the day.

So the police, you can actually hear in an audio clip they released as well. This is from the evening hours talking about how dangerous the conditions became.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCHER: That crowd is super thick, super dense. If you go in there, this could be an officer rescue situation. And that could be extremely dangerous for everybody.

So right now, if you can get in on the perimeter, get to them. If not, try your best -- (INAUDIBLE) -- to help out. Other than that, be careful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee also mentioned that perhaps after the pandemic, people were really looking for a way to be free and perhaps doing so by going to an event with a lot of other people, something they couldn't do for so long.

But she said, in the 21st century, we should be able to host large events like we always have in a safe way. And to really give these families answers as quickly as possible -- Jim?

ACOSTA: No question about that.

Natasha Chen, thanks for that report on the search for answers down there in Houston.

And up next, after marathon negotiations at the U.N. climate summit, world leaders have just reached an agreement as the future of the planet is on the line.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:04]

ACOSTA: It took marathon talks and weeks of negotiations at the global climate summit in Scotland and a missed deadline.

But now negotiators from nearly 200 nations have reached an agreement with a clear consensus that all countries must do more to fight climate change and global warming.

CNN chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, is joining us now.

Bill, I mean, this is fascinating. The future of the planet is obviously on the line. We know the stakes. They know the stakes at that climate summit.

Tell us what was agreed at the summit. And let's break it down after that and look at the political consequences with all of this.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Jim. Broad strokes, almost 200 countries came together in the face of the existential threat to life as we know it on earth and they agreed they need to do more in the future.

Ultimately, that was the most they could agree on. That's what is, the exercise here that has happened now 26 times, is you release a statement that is pretty much the bare minimum of what everyone can agree on.

And it's nowhere near what is needed. Science tells us to avoid the worst effects of an ever-increasing, hotter planet.

But if every promise is made, deforestation and the methane promises and decarbonization timetables that we got -- India for the first time -- that could still help in a big way. So there's hope for that.

They basically agreed to come back next year.

And the poorer countries, essentially, the developing countries, say you guys need to double -- the wealthier nations need to double their commitment to helping us because we're facing the worse of this and we contributed to the least of the problem.

But Jim, ultimately, you know, many environmental activists or anybody who's a sentient creature who understands the problem would hope they would up the ambitions of 2015, the Paris Accords.

Come back and say, you know, we met the curve a little bit, we need to do much more, here are our new target goals. That didn't happen.

[16:40:03]

But for the first time, they mentioned fossil fuels, oil and gas, in the language, that that's something humanity should think about moving away from in the vaguest terms.

Even then, we understand that India and Iran fiercely fought any mention of those specifics. India especially doesn't want to get away from coal. They depend on it mightily.

ACOSTA: That is, that's the problem in all of this. These countries that have economies that are primarily centered around fossil fuels, or heavily reliant on fossil fuels, how do you get them to agree to this kind of stuff?

But it sounds like you're not particularly thrilled, Bill, as somebody who covers this closely, with what got hammered out.

Is it because of what was compromised on or taken out to get to this final agreement that sort of makes it fall short?

WEIR: I think, Jim, that every year that goes by, the talking means less. Especially for the youngest generation. They will be completely frustrated with this.

The Greta Thunberg-led, the Sunrise Movement. They're certainly to be bitterly disappointed because the rhetoric does not match the sense of emergency they feel. So there's that.

So, yes, even the greenest countries in the world, even Denmark and Costa Rica, they're not putting an end date on fossil fuel new development until the middle of the century.

For those who think of planet earth less as an endless fountain of resources and think of it more as a life raft with a certain amount of rations that has to get us to a sustainable future, how you spend those rations going forward should be the debate.

And should all the carbon, some would argue, do you spend every -- adamantly you possibly can spend on it on building the new future instead of, I don't know, spending, sending rich guy to space or minting --

(CROSSTALK)

WEIR: -- baseball cards or bitcoin.

I mean, that's human nature. That's what makes this such an incredible challenge.

ACOSTA: It makes you wonder if we're just all waiting for some major technological advancement that the entire world can share that will get us out of this fix. And until then, we're just really screwed, honestly.

I've covered so many of these summits, Bill, and it seem that what the politicians want to do is they want to leave the summit with something, put it on paper.

And it feels like that's what's happened here.

WEIR: Ultimately, yes. And look, they have to answer to their constituents. In the United States, we have a certain obvious political fight going on.

And even the greatest advances in medical science have met with fierce resistance from people who would rather punch a flight attendant than wear a mask.

But if you're in a country like Bangladesh or in the South Pacific, you are going there hoping for some sense of parity and balance and coming sway empty handed. That's only going to create more anger and resentment. And a less habitable world becomes a less hospitable.

So if humans can't sort of come together at a point before the hell and high water starts, it doesn't bode well.

But there are so many amazing ideas out there. And I think the COVID vaccines are proof that, if science puts its mind on one thing in a concerted effort, and the governments of the world give enough money, they can do amazing things. And there's hope for these things.

But right now, way too much momentum is behind the status quo. And ultimately, all the science tells us we need a second industrial revolution in like 1/15th of the time.

ACOSTA: Yes. Bill, why do I feel, at this point, we're sort of like the unvaccinated patient who lands in the ICU who regrets not getting the shot and it's too late.

WEIR: Yes.

ACOSTA: All right, Bill Weir, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

WEIR: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Great perspective.

Tragic news regarding one of the first people to travel to space with Jeff Bezos' company, Blue Origin. Glen De Vries, who flew to space last month with actor, William Shatner, has died.

The 49-year-old businessman was one of two people killed when their small plane crashed Thursday. So far, it's unclear why the plane went down.

Blue Origin tweeted about this, saying, "De Vries brought so much life and energy to the entire Blue Origin team and to his fellow crew mates. His passion for aviation and his charitable work and his dedication to his craft will long be revered and admired."

De Vries told CNN it was his lifelong dream to see planet earth from space and that was a remarkable moment.

Up next, CNN gets exclusive access to a refugee camp on the Belarus/Poland border, where thousands of migrants are stuck amid catastrophic conditions. We'll take you there, next.

[16:44:42]

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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ACOSTA: Breaking news. An investigation is now underway after a Polish soldier was killed on the Belarus/Poland border where tensions are high amid an ongoing migrant crisis. The statement from Poland's armed services say a preliminary finding

say the soldier was shot when a service weapon accidentally discharged.

Western leaders have accused Belarus of manufacturing the crisis as retribution for sanctions over human rights abuses, a claim Belarus denies.

Thousands of people are now stranded at the Belarus/Poland border in dire conditions,

And Matthew Chance got exclusive access to the migrant camps there and has this for us.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the desperate, trapped on the front line of Europe's latest refugee crisis. We've gained exclusive access to the burgeoning camp at the Polish border in Belarus.

[16:50:03]

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CHANCE: "Help, help," this little boy shouts.

But there's barely enough here to keep everyone alive.

Already, people have died in the cold as Polish forces stand guard on the other side.

(on camera): You can see how close we are. Just across this razor wire fence are Polish security forces on Polish territory.

They're keeping a close eye on the situation, trying to prevent refugees, migrants from this camp here in Belarusian territory from crossing over that line. You see there are thousands of people here.

(voice-over): Two thousand now, say Belarusian officials. But with migrants still flooding in from the Middle East and Asia, it could be 5,000, they told CNN, in just another week. For Europe, that's a threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down.

CHANCE (on camera): Ah, sit down.

You're warming your children's gloves here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CHANCE (voice-over): Most have already paid big money to traffickers or Belarusian travel agents just to get this far.

(on camera): You're telling me you've paid $2,000, which is a lot of money, right, to come from Iraqi Kurdistan to here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CHANCE: Do you think you're going to get through? Do you think you will go to Germany?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CHANCE: You do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are. We are. Our people want to go to Germany.

CHANCE: Yes, but do you think it will happen? You'll try?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll try. We don't want to stay in Poland.

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CHANCE (voice-over): The more migrants arrive, the more desperate their plight.

We witness these refugees frantically scrambling for firewood, essential supplies as temperatures here drop.

(SHOUTING)

CHANCE: With Belarusian aid workers arriving with food and water, the scenes are even more fraught (ph).

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I'm hungry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know, I know. I hope you get some food.

CHANCE (on camera): You can see these are pretty extraordinary scenes. You've got Belarusian military forces essentially trying to push back the crowd of migrants that's gathered around this distribution of aid.

They're just giving out bottles of -- plastic bottles of water. But the people here are so desperate for any kind of nutrition, any kind of food, water, shelter.

Look, they're being asked to kneel down in front of the Belarusian security forces. And when they kneel down, look, some of them are being allowed to go through.

CHANCE: Who's this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His name is Aji (ph). CHANCE: Hello, Aji (ph). Are you good?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: (INAUDIBLE)

CHANCE: You speak English, too? You speak a little bit of English?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Yes.

CHANCE (voice-over): Shohan (ph) and her 4-year-old son also traveled to Belarus from Iraqi Kurdistan to help her child, she told me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We came here because of my son. Because he needs an operation.

CHANCE (on camera): He needs an operation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, big operation in the back.

CHANCE: Oh, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he can't walk away without this --

CHANCE: Oh, I see, he's got this splint on his leg.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he can't walk away without his shoes.

CHANCE: Why didn't you do this operation in Kurdistan?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because not very good. Maybe he fails, the operation fail. And we need to go to Germany. Everyone -- the doctor told me that the operation in Germany very good.

CHANCE (voice-over): But now, Germany looks a long way off.

With Belarus and the West blaming each other for this crisis, it's these people stuck in the middle who are paying the price.

Matthew Chance, CNN, at the border between Poland and Belarus.

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ACOSTA: Our thanks to Matthew for that report.

More than 20 years after her death, Princess Diana's story still informs and inspires. Go inside her lasting legacy on a new episode of the CNN original series, "DIANA."

Here's a preview.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The news came through directly from Paris from our ambassador out there, Sir Michael Jay. I think Charles was in absolute shock this happened. He felt for his

sons, obviously. And there was personal grief as well. This was the woman he had loved.

But there was also this feeling of, oh, my god, I am going to get blamed for this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The marriage was over but he still felt a huge obligation towards her. Mainly in the shape of his sons who were sleeping just a few yards away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The queen and Prince Charles got up and talked together, discussed whether they should tell the boys.

And I think, quite rightly, Charles decided what was the point of waking up the boys right now. We don't know the truth of it. We'll wait until the morning.

He chose, I believe, to talk to William first, his eldest, which is understandable. And together, they then went and told Prince Harry, who was just 12.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:55:05]

ACOSTA: Be sure to tune in. The final episode of "Diana" airs tomorrow night at 9:00 right here on CNN.

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[16:59:53]

ACOSTA: Check this out. The Rockefeller Christmas tree arrived this morning in New York City. This year's tree is a 79-foot Norway spruce weighing 12 tons.

It will be decked out with more than 50,000 colored lights and topped with a star weighing 900 pounds. We'll see it all lit up during an official lighting ceremony on December 1st.