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Ukrainian President Warns There is a Coup Planned Against Him; Dow Plunges Amid Fears Over New COVID Variant; Trump Says, January 6 Committee Could Damage the Presidency in Quest for Records. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 26, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN NEWSROOM: In less than a week.

[10:30:00]

And he says those planning the coup have been trying to enlist the aid of the country's richest man, Rinat Akhmetov.

Joining me now to discuss is David Sanger, White House National Security Correspondent for The New York Times. David, great to see you.

I want to ask you first how real do you think this threat of a coup is.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, it's hard to tell and it may be hard to tell for President Zelensky himself who, of course, is hoping that by announcing this in advance, he will disrupt the entire effort or make it obvious when it happens. But whether it's active or not, we do know that he faces a triple threat from Putin right now. The first threat, of course, is the forces on the ground. You can see those in satellite photographs. We just don't know Putin's intent, whether he plans to go over the border again, as he did in 2014 when he annexed Crimea.

The second is a sort of cyber hybrid warfare threat. Many times or at least several times, we've seen the Russians go turn off the power in parts of Ukraine, do other things to sort of undercut the government. And now we have the president making the case they're trying to manipulate a coup.

One thing is for sure, Putin wants to see Zelensky gone. The question is can he do it in such a way that he wouldn't pay a price.

DEAN: And you alluded to this, but now that Zelensky has called this out publicly, do you think it makes it less likely that this actually happens? Does this protect him in any way?

SANGER: Probably does, depends on the depths of the coup so far. The Ukrainian military has been quite loyal to him. The areas where Putin has made big inroads has been in Eastern Ukraine, Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, Crimea, of course, used to be a part of Russia before it was turned over back to Ukraine in the 1950s, when that was all still part of the Soviet Union. And the question is would he attempt, would Putin attempt to do something that would basically overturn the entire government.

We did see two elections ago in Ukraine the Russians' attempt to manipulate the election with techniques that we later saw in 2016 here.

DEAN: Yes, that is something.

All right, David, I want you to stay with us. We have got some more reporting we're going to get to and we're going to come back to you for more analysis.

Right now, the second group of U.S. lawmakers in less than a month are defying China and meeting with government officials in Taiwan, this as tensions between Taiwan and China have risen to levels not seen in decades.

Democratic Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin said the surprise trip came after the group celebrated Thanksgiving with U.S. groups in South Korea. She tweeted earlier this morning writing, quote, I'm midway through my visit to Taiwan, and this much is clear. This place is on the rise. The fortitude and determination of the people lead by their dynamic, frankly, kick-ass president is downright inspiring and I don't inspire easily. Democratic values still and always matter.

Joining me now is CNN's Melanie Zanona. Melanie, what are we learning more about this trip?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, we know this was a delegation of five lawmakers. There were four Democrats, one Republican. It was led by a Mark Takano, California Democrat who also chairs the House Veterans Affairs Committee. And we also know that the purpose of this trip was to speak with leaders in Taiwan about a number of economic and national security issues, including the supply chain crisis.

But we're also learning that there was some blowback for this trip. This is what Elissa Slotkin, a Michigan Democrat, tweeted. She said, the auto industry's largest supplier of microchips is here in Taiwan, so supply chain issues will most definitely be on the agenda. When news of our trip broke yesterday, my office received a blunt message from the Chinese embassy telling me to call off the trip.

This trip comes at a diplomatically sensitive time for the White House. Biden just invited Taiwan to attend a Summit of Democracies next month, which China called a mistake. China also condemned another recent trip by U.S. lawmakers to Taiwan and argued that it violates the One China principle.

Now, Biden, for his part, has reiterated his support for the One China principle and that is where the U.S. officially recognizes Beijing over Taipei. But he has also said he opposes any unilateral efforts to disrupt or undermine peace and stability in Taiwan. And so you see the sort of tricky balancing act that Biden is trying to enact here.

DEAN: Yes, absolutely. Melanie Zanona, thanks so much for that.

Let's bring back in David Sanger. David, this is the third U.S. delegation visit to Taiwan since the summer. What does it say about the U.S. strategy here?

SANGER: Well, we've had a lot of U.S. delegations go, congressional delegations, not only during the Biden administration but back during previous presidents.

[10:35:08]

It always enrages the Chinese, as does our sale of weaponry to Taiwan to defend itself.

You're seeing President Biden, as Melanie suggested, trying to walk this very fine line. On the one hand, he says he is sticking by the Taiwan Relations Act, which he notes he voted for when he was in the Senate in 1979. I mean, how many members of the political establishment in Washington do we think of who actually voted for Taiwan ruling or anything else in 1979 who are still on this day (ph)?

DEAN: Right.

SANGER: But on the other hand, he is trying to turn up the pressure to tell the Chinese this would be a very high price if they tried to do to Taiwan what they've done to Hong Kong.

DEAN: And what's the line for China to be more blunt about saying to the U.S. stop with these visits? Is there a line? I guess what would the next level of escalation be?

SANGER: You know, it's sort of like the Ukraine issue we were discussing before, which is we don't know what the line is here, at least in the case for Xi Jinping. There are some China experts I know who believe that by the end of Xi's time in office, and that could be a long time, because he's truly trying to -- clearly trying to extend his period of rule, he wants to make sure that Taiwan unification happens.

But that doesn't mean it's going happen in the next year or two years or that he would attempt to do this. And, again, as we discussed in Ukraine, unlikely he would try it with just a military -- piece of military force. It would be instead, I think, much more likely an effort to slowly try to choke off Taiwan. That's tricky because Taiwan's semiconductors, which Melanie referred to, is not only a big supplier to the United States, it's a big supplier to China.

DEAN: Yes, we shall see. David Sanger, thanks for your insight. We appreciate it.

Still ahead --

SANGER: Great to be with you.

DEAN: You too.

Still ahead, a record number of Americans are quitting their jobs. But why are they leaving, and where are they going?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

DEAN: More now on our breaking news. The Dow still tumbling as fears over the new COVID variant grip the markets. Take a look right there, the Dow down over 800 points, at 864 right now. Taking a look at markets around the world, a lot of red on that screen. Global markets obviously reacting to this concerning news of the new highly transmissible new variant first identified in South Africa. We're certainly keeping an eye on that, and stay with us for the very latest.

Meanwhile, the coronavirus pandemic triggering the great resignation, a record 4.4 million Americans voluntarily quitting their jobs in September. So, why the mass exodus at a time when wages are higher and jobs plentiful?

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich set out to find where have all the workers gone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITCS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A simple task, Kate Santangelo picks up her seven-year-old daughter, grace, from school, something she's waited years to do.

Do you recall how often you were able to pick your daughter up from school?

KATE SANTANGELO: Oh, my gosh, never.

YURKEVICH: but all that changed in April. She quit her 15-year career in sales to be home full-time with her kids.

SANTANGELO: I was working endless hours and traveling a lot.

YURKEVICH: If COVID didn't happen, do you think that you still would have quit your job?

SANTANGELO: No. No, I think I'd still be there, yes, without a doubt.

YURKEVICH: She's one of millions quitting the workforce in recent months, a record 4.4 million quits in September. It's being called the great resignation.

SANTANGELO: We have had so much time that we had to be sitting in our homes and spending time with, you know, people we live with and just shifting priorities.

YURKEVICH: and she's one of 4.7 million business applications filed from January through October of this year, a 34 percent increase from the same time the period in 2019. She founded Monmouth Moms, a resource guide for parents. SANTANGELO: It allows me to take off if I need to bring, you know, my kids to the doctor or, you know, offer more flexibility in terms of when I can even schedule appointments for them.

YURKEVICH: It's not just moms leaving the workforce. Americans are retiring in greater numbers too.

What am I looking at behind you guys right now?

SCOTT BANKS, RETIRED EARLY: That's our R.V. Yes, that's our R.V. we have got in the background.

YURKEVICH: Scott and Mary Banks retired early this September at 57 and 59 respectively, and are road tripping across the country.

S. BANKS: Packed up, strapped down, ready to head down the road.

YURKEVICH: Scott quit his finance job. Mary left real estate.

S. BANKS: I said what would you think if we did it now instead of waiting three more years?

MARY BANKS, RETIRED EARLY: And I'm like I pushed all my chips in. I'm all in.

YURKEVICH: 1.5 million Americans were on pace to retire during the pandemic. Instead that number more than doubled to 3.6 million.

S. BANKS: It was just that thought of, gosh, wouldn't it be a tragedy if we spent all this time working for our retirement and then right near the finish line you catch a horrible disease and die and never get to enjoy your retirement?

[10:45:04]

YURKEVICH: So, they capitalized on the hot housing market, sold their home and hit the road.

How is life on the road compared to the jobs that you left behind?

S. BANKS: Gosh, I wish I could say it was tough, but, no, it's great. I do not miss at all working right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH (on camera): And the Banks clearly enjoying their early retirement there. But the industries with the biggest quit rates, that's education, transportation, leisure and hospitality, these are industries that before the pandemic were suffering from labor shortages and, of course, they're feeling those more acutely right now.

And, Jessica, the Americans that we spoke to that quit those industries said they did it because they were looking for higher wages, more work flexibility, more work-from-home options, so they didn't have to interact with as many people because of COVID fears. But, Jessica, clearly, this pandemic has transformed the way that Americans want to work and the work that they're willing to do. Jessica?

DEAN: Yes. And it's really fascinating. Vanessa, thanks so much.

YURKEVICH: Thanks.

DEAN: Coming up next, former President Donald Trump's strategy to keep White House documents secret as he heads back to court next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

DEAN: According to a court filing, former President Donald Trump is accusing the January 6th committee of being so aggressive in its pursuit of records that it could permanently damage the presidency, this as his lawyers will be in court Tuesday arguing the former president's claim of executive privilege should be honored.

Here to discuss is Michael Moore, former U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. Michael, great to see you. Thanks for being with us.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: It's great to be with you. Thanks.

DEAN: The former president is arguing that permanent damage could be done to the office of the presidency because he cannot exert executive privilege over these documents. Do you think that argument holds up?

MOORE: No. I really think that's a laughable argument, especially from the prior administration given some of the things that went on.

The executive privilege is meant to -- it really is meant to protect the deliberative process as it go within the executive branch. It's not meant to hide allegations of wrongdoing. If you think about this, what if a president wrote a note on presidential letterhead, a blackmail letter, they couldn't decline that nobody should know about that criminal conduct. Executive privilege is not meant to cover that.

So, I don't think he's going to make any grounds with the court making an argument. Lawsuits by their nature are difficult for litigants. They are not the most pleasant things. I know the president's attorneys have claims that it's harassment for this committee to investigate, such as the nature of checks and balances in a way. So, I really think he's going to find an unfriendly bench if they push that very hard.

DEAN: Right. And you're alluding to your answer to this question, but this is a historic case and it could have lasting consequences, setting precedent moving forward. It sounds like you think the appeals court will rule against the former president.

MOORE: I really do. They've raised an issue of standing. The court on its own has brought forth this question, ask the parties to be available to address whether or not the appellate court even has the standing or jurisdiction, really, rather -- raising the issue of jurisdiction, excuse me, to consider the case. And that is something -- courts are protective of their own jurisdictions, and they use these to sometimes separate out those cases they should hear and shouldn't hear.

And so I think it's interesting they raise it. They may, in fact, dismiss the case, decide they don't have authority under the statute to even look and review the decision made by archivists. So, it will be interesting to see how far they go.

Remember, too, at the end of the day, the president works for us. He works for the people. And so it's important that the people know what went on as opposed to it being sort of a little mini kingdom in Washington where documents are hidden and actions are hidden from public review.

DEAN: Right, and kept secret from everyone.

We have seen the former president over and over again use delay tactics to try to slow everything down in the courts and make it more beneficial to him, set himself up in a better position. So far, the courts have not done that. They've moved pretty quickly with a lot of their rulings surrounding this particular irk shoe. Do you see that continuing to move forward? Do you think the courts understand that the committee is also up against a timing deadline as well?

MOORE: I think they do. I mean, courts are used to dealing with emergency situations, emergency motions, time-sensitive motions. I mean, if you think about it, they address capital cases routinely and they obviously have to move expeditiously on that. They know that the committee is meeting. They are certainly aware of the calendar and what 2022 brings and another election. They're aware that the committee has a certain amount of time to review information now and they need it to continue that investigation. So, if they're going to act, I think they'll do it very quickly.

I agree with you that his tactic in the past has been to use delays, and he has at times been successful with that. But I think in this case he ultimately may appeal to the Supreme Court. That will be more interesting to see where it goes. But I expect that you'll see the case move forward.

DEAN: All right. Well, we will see how it all plays out.

[10:55:00]

Michael Moore, we really appreciate you making the time. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

MOORE: I had a great one. Great to be with you, thanks.

DEAN: Thanks again.

And we want to thank you for joining us today. I'm Jessica dean. And CNN's Alex Marquardt is picking up after a break. Have a great rest of your day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN NEWSROOM: Hi, everyone. I'm Alex Marquardt in today for Kate Bolduan.

[11:00:01]

Thanks again for joining us on a special holiday edition of CNN Newsroom.

And we are going to begin with breaking news on the COVID-19 pandemic.