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Ukraine President Accuses Russia of Plotting Coup Against Him; Five U.S. Lawmakers Visit Taiwan in Defiance of China; France Cancels Talks With U.K. After British Prime Minister's Open Letter. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 26, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Potential threats to censure them or kick them off their committees.

[11:30:02]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes, politics, Trump and political courage.

We have heard from Congresswoman Omar. She's responded on Twitter calling this essentially totally fictitious. What else is she saying?

ZANONA: Yes. She's not only calling out this bigoted and harmful language, she's also saying the incident never happened.

Here's what she said specifically in a tweet. Fact, this buffoon looks down when she sees me at the Capitol. This whole story is made up. Sad she thinks bigotry gets her clout. Anti-Muslim bigotry isn't funny and shouldn't be normalized. Congress can't be a place where hateful and dangerous Muslim tropes get no condemnation.

And, look, whether this is true or not and whether it was a joke or not, it's not funny and it is dangerous. I mean, Ilhan Omar is someone who regularly faces death threats in Congress. She has to have a security detail following her around. And likening her to a suicide bomber is only going to inspire more death threats.

MARQUARDT: As a result, do you expect Democrats to try to censure her?

ZANONA: I think we certainly could see them try to push an effort to either censure her or kick her off her committees. I think it's a little too early to tell. Congress will back to Washington next week, and I'm sure it will be a topic of conversation.

But our colleague, Lauren Fox, reported earlier this week that Democrats already feel like Capitol Hill has become a toxic work environment and it's comments like this from Lauren Boebert and Paul Gosar along with the lack of condemnation from GOP leaders that is contributing to that environment.

MARQUARDT: And then that translates into support votes and oftentimes money. And that's really the saddest part of all of this. Melanie Zanona, thank you so much.

ZANONA: Thanks, Alex.

MARQUARDT: All right. Well, Ukraine's president has announced on national T.V. that Russia is plotting a coup against him. The Kremlin is responding. Those breaking details, next.

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[11:35:00]

MARQUARDT: Developing this morning, Ukraine's president says that a group of Russians and Ukrainians is plotting a coup against him that would take place next week with the help of Ukraine's richest man. Meanwhile, NATO is urging Russia to de-escalate as it continues to build up its military presence along the border with Ukraine.

CNN's Matthew Chance is live in London. Matthew, this is quite the allegation for Volodymyr Zelensky to make and at this time in particular.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. I mean, it underlines those concerns that have been sort of made very public over the past couple of weeks about the threat that Russia poses to the state of Ukraine.

There are two concerns, is that military one with the idea that's been, you know, put out there by U.S. intelligence agencies that Russia is massing troops near the borders of Ukraine, something the Kremlin categorically denies, by the way.

And then there's that second sort of internal, more covert threat that Russia poses to the Ukrainian state, which has been articulated by President Zelensky today in Ukraine, saying that he believes the intelligence services in Ukraine have discovered that there was a coup that's planned for the 1st and the 2nd of December, so just a few days from now, involving Russians and Ukrainians, and as you rightly say, involving Russia's -- sorry, Ukraine's richest man, Rinat Akhmetov is his name.

Now, to be clear there's been a categorical denial from Akhmetov's press department, basically saying that it is a lie and there's no connection that he has with any kind of conspiracy to be involved in anything like that.

But, you know, Alex, there is this real threat that is posed to Ukraine by Russia but you also have to look at what's going on inside Ukraine. President Zelensky is cracking down on oligarchs, the rich businessmen that control a lot of economic power and a lot of political power in Ukraine as well. It's kind of an anti-corruption drive from him. His critics say that he's not just cracking down on people that are controlled by Russia but he's cracking down on anyone who's critical of him and his government. So, that's the criticism of President Zelensky right now inside Ukraine. Alex?

MARQUARDT: And, Matthew, quickly, he did -- he was very specific about when this could take place, next week, but did he offer anything in the way of evidence or proof?

CHANCE: No, nothing that was -- that he made public during that very long press conference. But, you know, he said there was a tape of telephone conversations that have been recorded in which Mr. Akhmetov's name had been mentioned and which Russians and Ukrainians were talking about a coup on the 1st or 2nd of December. So, yes, a lot of specificity when it comes to when that coup is or was I expect now are going to be staged.

MARQUARDT: All right, well, a very tense time in Ukraine. Matthew Chance in London, thank you so much.

Also developing, a surprise visit that was meant to -- is meant to show support for Taiwan and send a message to the Chinese capital of Beijing. Five U.S. lawmakers arrived in Taiwan on Thursday, ignoring warnings from China to visit that contested island. This morning, the congressional delegation met with Taiwan's president.

CNN's Will Ripley is live in Tokyo. Will, you've spent a ton of time in Taiwan.

[11:40:01]

This is obviously going to rub China the wrong way. How are they responding?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alex. Yes, I actually just arrived here in Hong Kong from Taiwan. I'm currently in quarantine at the airport hotel where we've just had a new outbreak of that COVID variant from South Africa, so a bit of breaking news as I sit here in my hotel room talking about Taiwan and that surprise visit by five U.S. lawmakers is really riling up Beijing right now.

Representative Elissa Slotkin, who is a Michigan Democrat, said that when the news broke that these lawmakers were planning to travel from Thanksgiving celebrations in South Korea to Taiwan. She said she got a message from the Chinese embassy telling her to call off the trip. Of course, they didn't. She says there are a lot of important issues that lawmakers want to discuss in Taiwan.

Of course, the cross-strait tensions are always a major concern, and Taiwan is seeking assurances from the United States that the U.S. has Taiwan's back, but also semiconductors, the chips that power automobiles, which are a big deal for that Michigan district, where Representative Slotkin is from. She wanted to talk about that with Taiwanese officials.

But it's very important even though these congressional visits do happen, there was another one just within the last few week, so just two visits from U.S. lawmakers to Taiwan in the last month, sometimes they even fly in on U.S. military planes, which irks Beijing and often they send their own warplanes into Taiwan's air defense identification zone as a reaction to that, although we've seen a steady stream of planes in recent days doing that anyway.

But there was a lawmaker from South Carolina, Representative Nancy Mace, who actually tweeted something that is incredibly provocative from the Beijing point of view because she said right after they landed, we've just landed in the Republic of Taiwan.

Alex, you know all too well, there is no Republic of Taiwan. It's called the Republic of China, officially. Taiwan is a colloquialism. But to say Republic of Taiwan is essentially tantamount to Taiwan declaring its formal independence, which China has said is a red line that could provoke military action.

So, U.S. lawmakers need to be pretty careful with the kind of language the use when conducting these sort of trips.

MARQUARDT: And Xi Jinping in his virtual summit with Biden recently, just a couple days ago, said it would be playing with fire to be more involved.

Will Ripley, thank you very much for breaking that down.

All right, here to discuss both of these extremely important stories is CNN Political Analyst and Washington Post Columnist Josh Rogin. He's also the author of Chaos Under Heaven, Trump, Xi and the Battle for the 21st Century. Josh, thanks so much for being with me.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Great to be with you.

MARQUARDT: All right. Let's start with Ukraine. You've got Ukraine's president making this incredible claim that Russia -- a group of Russians and Ukrainians are behind a plot to stage a coup next month, that Ukraine's biggest oligarch, richest man, is also involved. What do you make of all this?

ROGIN: Well, it's clear that the mounting pressures both internal and external are taking its toll on the Ukrainian government and President Zelensky. Not only is he face the military threats from Russia, he's facing internal challenges from his own oligarchs. Those are fueled by the pro-Russian forces inside his own system. He's taking it from all sides. They've got an energy crisis, they've got an economic crisis, they've got a political crisis, and they've got a security crisis.

And I think the real question and the real reason that he's raising this alarm, in fact, is because the real question is whether or not the west is going to come to his aid, whether or not Europe and the United States, primarily the Biden administration, is going to do what's necessary to bolster Ukrainian security and the integrity of their system and their sovereignty in the face of all these threats.

I think it's pretty clear that the Biden administration has been very vague about what it will -- it's actually willing to do, and while expressing strong rhetorical support for Zelensky, questions about military assistance, questions about Nord Stream 2 and questions about more economic assistance from the United States remain unanswered.

MARQUARDT: So, do you think that -- you know, we have heard this reporting from CNN and elsewhere that the U.S. is considering sending military aid, both advisers and weaponry to Ukraine. Do you get the sense that the U.S. needs to really ratchet up the tension in order to calm things down?

ROGIN: Well, I mean, that's the debate that's going on internally. I think that they're trying to sort of split the difference. I think they're showing a goldilocks strategy, not too hot, not too cold. We have provided hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid, the United States, to Ukraine already this year. Whether or not more would raise tensions or deter the Russians is a matter of debate.

It seems to me that, if you're asking my opinion, that yes, more military aid would raise the cost of a military invasion. But to be honest, it's not really a military problem. It's a diplomatic problem. In my opinion, if the Biden administration really wants to make a difference in Ukraine, it would rejoin the leadership of the international efforts to resolve those diplomatic and political differences, and they just don't seem to have the bandwidth or the intention of doing that, frankly.

[11:45:02]

MARQUARDT: And, Josh, I want to move on to China and this visit to Taiwan by these five Congress members, and it was a delegation of both Republicans and Democrats. We heard from Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin. She tweeted, when news of our trip broke yesterday, my office received a blunt message from the Chinese embassy telling me to call off the trips. But just as with other stop, we're here to learn more about the region and reaffirm the U.S. commitment to our host, the Taiwanese. I'm looking forward to an informative trip.

Josh, this isn't the first time that members of Congress have visited Taiwan this year but it comes at this very important moment. So, how notable do you think this trip is?

ROGIN: Right. This is the third lawmaker trip in recent months to Taiwan. The first was a bunch of senators delivering vaccines. Then we had Senator Cornyn and Senator Crapo just a few weeks ago and now five lawmakers.

Listen, I think the whole point of regularizing these visits is to show the Chinese government that it doesn't matter if they whine and moan and complain because American lawmakers and American official have the right and the duty and the interest of visiting Taiwan. We have an economic relationship. We have a diplomatic, although unofficial diplomatic relationship, there's important industrial ties, and we also support Taiwan's democracy, while not actually endorsing their independence or telling them if we're even going to come to their aid if they get attacked.

So, yes, Beijing complains. That's what they do. They complain about everything. They're going to keep complaining. And in my opinion, if we yield to the complaints and stop the visits, well, that just encourages them to complain about everything even more.

So, I think there's a benefit in these visits both for the United States but also Taiwan. And I think they're going to continue, as well. They should.

MARQUARDT: All right. Josh Rogin, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much for joining me. Have a great holiday weekend.

ROGIN: Anytime. You too.

MARQUARDT: A terrible tragedy in the English Channel has led to a major diplomatic rift between the United Kingdom and France. We'll have a live report next.

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[11:50:00]

MARQUARDT: New this morning, a heightening blame game between France and the United Kingdom following the deadly capsizing of a migrant boat in the English Channel a couple of days ago. France is uninviting the U.K. from a high-level meeting this weekend on the European migrant crisis. Meanwhile, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson got on Twitter with an open letter to the French president which itself is adding to these strained relations.

CNN's Cyril Vanier is live in Calais, France, with more. Cyril, it's pretty extraordinary that this has become such a diplomatic spat when this is about desperate people taking an incredibly dangerous journey.

CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Alex, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head there. In the hours that followed this tragedy, the worst of its kind since those numbers have been recorded, 27 migrants drowned in the English Channel behind me.

In the hours that followed that, the French President Emmanuel Macron vowed that he would not let the English Channel become a graveyard and there was a push for more cooperation to find a joint solution with the U.K., the U.K. being the El Dorado, the final destination that these migrants hope to reach. But in the last 36 hours, things have devolved between the two leaders into this bickering, into not a shouting match but certainly a nascent diplomatic row.

Now, the Brits, from their perspective, they think this is a simple problem, the French should just stop everybody from leaving their shores and it's that simple, and those who do leave the shores, well, they should just be expelled back to France. The French, of course, don't see it as quite that simple.

And today, you know, Alex, we spoke to migrants. We went to one of these migrant encampments. And, of course, this big picture politics means nothing to them. I spoke to a 21-year-old Afghan, a geography student who has just been through an odyssey, a five-month journey to get to this point already. I asked him if he still intends to cross after what happened. Listen to what he said?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To reach U.K., I want just to reach there.

VANIER: How?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, by boat, by boat is the only option. VANIER: Some people died the other day trying to cross the other day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is normal for us. You know Turkish border and Iran border, much more people dying there. Nobody cares.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VANIER: You understand, Alex, that given what these people have already been through to get to this point, nothing is going to stop them from crossing this, trying this boat crossing once again, Alex.

MARQUARDT: Yes. I was going to say that's the finish line. They have already come so far. Well, hopefully, Britain and France can get it together and sort this out.

Cyril Vanier in France, thank you so much.

All right, before we go, the top ten CNN Heroes of 2021 have been announced, and one will be the CNN Hero of the Year, heroes like a woman in California who created a community of widows that can heal together.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would tell the nurse, tell them I love him or put the phone by him because they would not let me in. Sometimes I would just go sit in the parking lot just to be close to him, you know?

[11:55:01]

April 13th, they told me he was gone.

I needed someone to understand what it was like to be widowed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, you imagine that when someone dies, the worst day is the day they die. And the truth is that living without them is the hard part. But you have to make your way through.

Thank you for being here and showing up for each other.

We help people live and live through something that many times they do not think that they would survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And you go to cnnheroes.com right now to vote for your CNN Hero of the Year.

We'll be right back.

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