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Dr. Anthony Fauci Updates COVID Fight. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 01, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:03]

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: You know, I'm not so sure we should say that that would be a requirement.

I would say what I have been saying all along, that we have 60 million people in this country who are not vaccinated who are eligible to be vaccinated. Let's get them vaccinated. Let's get the people who are vaccinated boosted. Let's get the children vaccinated. That's where we want to go, as opposed to a requirement.

QUESTION: Wouldn't some people say that you have extinguished many of your options to get those people vaccinated, and this is one of the ways? As the OSHA mandate is held up in court, this would maybe be a way to push more people to get there?

FAUCI: That's a possibility. But I think, for the people who are listening to this, we again talk about why it's important to get vaccinated.

I think what's happening now is another example of why it's important for people to get vaccinated who've not been vaccinated, but also boosting. Boosting is really very important, because the data that we get on boosting, if you look at the level, for example, of an antibody, a neutralizing antibody, peak following the second dose of a two-dose mRNA, it's like at this level.

If you look at the peak following the third shot boost, it goes way up here. And people ask, why is that important? Because our experience with variants, such as the Delta variant, is that even though the vaccine isn't specifically targeted to the Delta variant, when you get a high enough level of an immune response, you get spillover protection, even against a variant that the vaccine wasn't specifically directed at.

And that's the reason why we feel, even though we don't have a lot of data on it, there's every reason to believe that that kind of increase that you get with the boost would be helpful, at least in preventing severe disease of a variant like Omicron.

QUESTION: Dr. Fauci, as you know, a lot of Americans right now are shopping for the best sort of booster, whatever they can get.

And given that manufacturers and scientists are racing to learn more about this variant and then to modify a vaccine that will more directly combat it right now, first, for those who already received their boost, how long would it be for them before conceivably they could have a new modified booster that would more directly target this?

And is there any reason those individuals should wait, given the White House had said it will be a couple of months, perhaps, before we have a more modified vaccine that more directly targets it?

FAUCI: Great question, because we get asked that a lot. And it's a relevant question.

So, right now, I would not be waiting. People say, well, if we're going to have a booster-specific vaccine, should we wait? If you are eligible, namely, six months with a double mRNA dose are two months for the J&J, get boosted now.

We may not need a variant-specific boost. We're preparing for the possibility that we need a variant-specific boost. And that's what the companies are doing. We have been, the administration has been in contact with the pharmaceutical companies to go ahead and take the steps in case we need it.

But the mistake people would make is to say, let me wait and see if we get one. If you are eligible for boosting, get boosted right now.

QUESTION: Thank you, Dr. Fauci.

Follow-up to Tyler's (ph) question, because there is screening in place for international travel. But we have seen how quickly variants can spread once they reach our shores. Is there -- does the science not suggest that there should at a minimum be a testing requirement for domestic air travel? And, if not, why not?

FAUCI: Well, again, that's -- these kinds of things, we always talk about and consider. But, right now, I'm not so sure we need a testing for air travel in this country.

I always get back to the fact is that people should wind up getting vaccinated and boosted if they're eligible for a boost. I keep coming back to that, because that's really the solution to this problem.

QUESTION: Two quick ones.

A Moderna executive has said in the past couple of days that this variant appears threatening and may demand new vaccines. What do you make of those remarks that seem a lot more alarmist than the administration's view or other vaccine makers?

FAUCI: Well, I think -- I think -- I know that we don't have enough information right now.

As you know, and we have said this, that the profile of -- the molecular profile of the kinds of mutations that you see would suggest, A, that it might be more transmissible, and that it might elude some of the protection of vaccines. But we don't know that now.

We don't know what the what the constellation of mutations are actually going to be. We have to be prepared that there's going to be a diminution in protection, which is the reason why I keep getting back over and over again and say why it's so important to get boosted.

But I think any declaration of what will or will not happen with this variant, it is too early to say. And I think we need to be careful, because I know you're going to be reading a lot of tweets and a lot of comments about this. We're really very early in the process.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) this is more -- this proves more transmissible, but less virulent than Delta. Would there be any public health benefit to furthering its spreads by lifting travel restrictions, for example, so it could outcompete the Delta variant?

[14:05:05]

FAUCI: You're talking about something really dangerous.

You're talking about, let a lot of people get infected to see if in fact you could protect them. That's something that I think almost all infectious disease people with any knowledge about infectious disease would not say that's a good idea.

QUESTION: Dr. Fauci, we are firmly in the holiday season. And a lot of Americans are wondering whether it's safe, even if they have been vaccinated, to go to a cocktail party without a mask, with a glass of eggnog in their hand.

FAUCI: Yes.

QUESTION: What's your advice to them?

FAUCI: Well, the advice is what I follow myself and what I tell people to do, is that get vaccinated. I'm going to get to your question. I'm not eluding it.

Get vaccinated, number one. If you need -- if you're eligible for a boost, get boosted. And in a situation with the holiday season, indoor-type settings, with family you know that is vaccinated, people that you know, you could feel safe with not wearing a mask and having a dinner or having a reception.

But when you are in a public congregate setting, in which you do not know the status of the vaccination of the people involved, it is very prudent to wear a mask. And that's what I do.

QUESTION: Spike the eggnog?

QUESTION: Thank you.

FAUCI: Well, obviously, I mean, unless you have a special kind of maths that I don't know about.

(LAUGHTER)

FAUCI: The fact is, sure, when you're eating and when you're drinking, take the mask down. But to the extent possible, keep it on when you're in an indoor congregate setting.

QUESTION: Dr. Fauci, as you have advised the president about the possibility of new testing requirements for people coming into this country, does that include everybody?

FAUCI: The answer is yes, because you know that the new -- the new regulation, if you want to call it that, is that anybody and everybody who is coming into the country needs to get a test within 24 hours of getting on the plane to come here.

QUESTION: But what about people who don't take a plane and just these border crossers coming in, in huge numbers?

(CROSSTALK)

FAUCI: That's a different issue.

For example, when you talk -- we still have Title 42 with regard to protection at the border. So there are protections at the border, that you don't have the capability, as you know, of somebody's getting on a plane, getting checked, looking at a passport. We don't have that there.

But we can't get some degree of mitigation.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) something to do to test these people somewhere else before they get here?

FAUCI: No, there is testing at the border under certain circumstances, as you know.

(CROSSTALK)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Michael.

QUESTION: Doctor, Doctor, two questions.

First, for folks in California, I know this is only one case, but what's your message to them? Should they be particularly concerned? And, secondly, with your emphasis on boosters, why not make a determination that it's in the interest of public health for the definition of fully vaccinated to include that additional dose?

FAUCI: OK.

So, for the people in California, we have been in contact with the public health officials in California. I'm not sure exactly what they're going to say. But I'm pretty sure they're going to say just do all of the mitigation, all of the things that we have been talking about up to now.

For those who have not been doing that, start doing that. For those who have been, continue doing that.

QUESTION: And in terms of making a determination that fully vaccinated... FAUCI: Yes, I mean, again, as the official determination of what something is for a variety of reasons, for example, employment and getting vaccinated, what is the definition, that will stay that way.

For optimal protection, I'm talking about what your personal effort to be optimally protected, that's why I say we should all get boosters.

QUESTION: But what about in terms of the mandate? You have a vaccine mandate.

FAUCI: Right.

QUESTION: At what point does the booster become part of the mandate?

FAUCI: Yes, I can't answer that right now.

But I know that, for the time being, the official definition of fully vaccinated is two.

QUESTION: But do you see that changing? We keep having these variants. We're very concerned about them. Are you concerned?

(CROSSTALK)

FAUCI: It could change. It could change. It could change, yes.

QUESTION: Would you recommend it change?

FAUCI: Well, I don't know. Let's see what rolls out now.

I mean, I know -- if I say it's going to change, it's going to get spread out that that's it. We don't know right now whether it should change, but it might.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) talked about quarantine for international visitors.

What -- do you think international visitors, when they arrive, they should quarantine for seven days, regardless of vaccination status?

FAUCI: Well, there are certain requirements for people who -- you're talking about foreign visitors?

QUESTION: Yes. Going forward, should it be a new requirement?

FAUCI: Yes, obviously, if they are, they have to get tested within 24 hours. And when they come back, if they're not vaccinated, they have to be in quarantine. They're recommended for quarantine and recommended to get a test within three days.

QUESTION: Even if they are vaccinated? I'm sorry.

FAUCI: Yes.

QUESTION: If they are vaccinated, should they quarantine?

FAUCI: No. Well, again, we're going to get confused here.

You're talking about United States citizens or you talking about anybody that comes into the country from anywhere?

QUESTION: Anybody.

FAUCI: I'm not sure what that's going to be. I think we will have to just check with the CDC.

PSAKI: Karen.

FAUCI: Yes.

QUESTION: Thanks, Jen.

QUESTION: Dr. Fauci, there are reports that, in a new book, former President Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows says that the president, then-president tested positive for COVID three days before the debate with President Biden.

Were you aware of that positive test at the time? And do you think, given what Meadows says, that he put then-candidate Biden at risk at that debate?

[14:10:05]

FAUCI: Well, I certainly was not aware of his test positivity or negativity.

QUESTION: And do you think he put President Biden...

(CROSSTALK)

FAUCI: I'm not going to specifically talk about who put who at risk.

But I would say, as I have said, not only for an individual, but for everybody, that, if you test positive, you should be quarantining yourself.

(CROSSTALK)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Dr. Fauci, just to follow on that quickly, if I may, President Trump's doctor, who you worked with at the time, Dr. Sean Conley, was aware of that, according to Mark Meadows, who you also worked with during that time.

And yet former President Trump continued to go out in public events. Based on your medical advice, is that something that you would have recommended if he had tested positive?

FAUCI: Well, I would recommend to anyone, whether it's the president or any of my patients or any of the people that I deal with, that if you test positive, you should be prudent and quarantine yourself.

PSAKI: Christian (ph). Christian. QUESTION: Dr. Fauci, Dr. Fauci, with all due respect, there's zero case of COVID, of Omicron case in Zimbabwe, in Namibia, in Lesotho, in Mozambique.

What justified imposing a travel ban on countries that have zero case of the Omicron variant?

FAUCI: You know, that's a very good question, an important question, and we did struggle with that.

But we wanted to see if we could bide time temporarily. So I do hope that this gets sorted out and lifted before it has any significant impact on your country.

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: Go ahead.

QUESTION: Thank you, Dr. Fauci.

Last week, the governor of New York signed an executive order to postpone elective hospital surgeries to prepare for the Omicron variant. I know that you and your team are being proactive as we try to learn more about this, but do you believe that some states might be going too far too quickly before we know too much?

FAUCI: You know, I really don't want to comment on a situation in individual states, because there are so many factors from state to state that are different. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment whether a state should or should not postpone elective surgeries.

QUESTION: And then the president said that we will defeat this variant of the coronavirus, not with lockdowns or shutdowns, but based off of the tools that we have now.

Is there anything that we are taking into this new variant experience based off of some of the adverse effects of some of those lockdowns? I mean, we just passed, I think, 100,000 overdose deaths for the first time ever.

FAUCI: Yes, I mean, first of all, we always discuss things that we might do to better our preparation, better our response. That's something we discuss every single day.

But, right now, what I have always said, and I will continue to say, let's utilize and implement the tools that we have, because, if we had done that, if we had the overwhelming majority of people in this country vaccinated, and those who needed to be boosted boosted, our vulnerability would be much less than it is right now.

PSAKI: Ryan (ph), last one. Then I got to let him go.

QUESTION: Follow up, Dr. Fauci.

What do you see as an endgame? In the '17 -- 1917-1918 flu pandemic, it eventually evolved to it was less lethal. But there are those who are saying that we're never going to get that far with this virus, because we need more people vaccinated.

What do you see as the endgame?

FAUCI: I mean, the endgame, which we hope and I think will occur, is that, as we get more people vaccinated, not only in this country, but globally, we will see a situation where viruses will not have the opportunity, what they have right now, is to essentially freely distribute and freely circulate in society, both domestic society and global society.

The more protection you get with vaccines, the less likelihood a virus has to do that, the less likelihood a virus has to mutate, the less likely you're going to get a variant.

So one of the things that we need to do about our long endgame is to do the things we have been saying every single day, not only for ourself, but internationally.

And we have done a lot and we will continue to do a lot to get low- and middle-income countries vaccinated.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

FAUCI: Oh, absolutely. I mean, yes. I mean, there's no doubt that this will end. I promise you that. This will end.

PSAKI: Thank you, Dr. Fauci.

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: We have to let Dr. Fauci go.

I appreciate you. Thank you for coming. Appreciate it.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

PSAKI: Not additional details, but they're going to be doing a press conference in California where they may have additional details

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, you have been listening to Dr. Anthony Fauci there at the White House answering questions after the discovery of the first person in the United States who has the Omicron variant of coronavirus there in California.

Thank you for joining us here in the NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

So you just heard Dr. Anthony Fauci say that that first case has been detected in the U.S. This was something that was expected and predicted by health experts.

[14:15:04] BLACKWELL: CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly is there at the White House, CNN's Stephanie Elam in California, where that first case was detected, and epidemiologist and former Detroit Health Commissioner Dr. Abdul El-Sayed also with us.

Stephanie, let's start with you.

What do we know about this person who has this first case?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Victor. These are some key details that we just learned right now.

And the biggest part of this is that we know that this is a traveler who returned from South Africa into the San Francisco area. This traveler returned on the 26th of November, and then they tested positive on November 29, according to Dr. Fauci, what he just said.

They're saying so far that this person has had mild symptoms, and all of their contacts have tested negative. But this person was also fully vaccinated. And, at this point, Dr. Fauci said, it was not -- he didn't believe that this person had had a booster shot.

However, the symptoms of this person are mild. Now, what's interesting about this is that, I have been covering COVID in California for the entire pandemic. And this was -- genome sequencing was done at the University of California, San Francisco.

And they were very instrumental in the entire state of getting testing up and running and helping the state to do that. To this end, we are now hearing also from the governor. And we're also hearing from the health Department from California, the governor saying that large- scale testing and early detection systems have found the Omicron COVID-19 variant in California. We should assume that it's in other states as well.

Really, what they're saying here is that the testing is why they were able to identify that it was here as early as they were, and to get this person into isolation. So this is key of what is happening here and looking to see where else it is.

But, obviously, they're saying this is no reason to panic. We knew it was inevitable that this variant would find its way to the United States. But the testing is key to make sure that you can do the contract tracing. And that's what they're saying they have been able to do with this one person so far.

CAMEROTA: So, Phil, of course, this new development does raise questions about what will change in terms of policy and protocol coming out of the White House now that we know that this variant is in the U.S.

Does that change the travel ban? You just heard Dr. Fauci getting some of those questions. And I thought that it was interesting. He said, again, look, we needed to take a beat. We just wanted to sort of catch our breath. This was the wise thing to do in terms of issuing, he says, the travel ban for Southern Africa, because they needed a little bit of -- they needed to buy time was his words.

But then you heard one of the reporters there say some of those countries have zero cases. So what do you think will change, if anything, now?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think that's the frame when you talk to administration officials that they have really viewed the last four or five days through, which is we're not going to stop this from coming to the United States. We know it's going to come to the United States. What can we implement fast to make clear that there's an understanding inside the administration of the concern and the potential for very bad fallout from what this could be, but also a recognition that this would buy them some time, not an immense amount of time, wouldn't block it entirely, but would give them time to prepare?

And I think that's been their primary focus, whether it's ramping up surveillance we have seen in the four largest international airports in the United States, the four busiest that CDC implemented yesterday. And then, obviously, testing, tracing is a huge component of this. We have reported that the CDC imminently is going to apply a different timeline for all travelers, including the vaccinated travelers, entering the United States, bringing for vaccine travelers down from three days to one day, potentially requiring or requesting tests after the fact as well.

Those are I think, the near- term issues you're looking at. But when you talk about time and preparation here, I think, when you talk to administration officials, a lot of what's been going on behind the scenes over the course of the last several days is in preparation for a worst-case scenario in terms of what this variant ends up being.

And that's what you heard Dr. Fauci refer to a couple times in terms of a very-specific boost. He made clear that might not be necessary at this point in time.

But the conversations between administration officials, public health officials, and vaccine makers, whether it pertains to how a vaccine would be reproduced, how it would be changed, depending on what the variant looks like, but also things like cost assessments for a national vaccine effort, something they would have to do again, essentially, what that would all look like, how that would all play out, the logistics of it, that's all been part of what's been happening behind the scenes right now.

So when they talk about buying time, whether or not that stopped anything from coming to the United States, nobody thought that was going to be the case. What they wanted, more than anything else, both in the near term and for these long-term issues, was time to prepare for what they knew was inevitable, which has obviously happened today, guys.

BLACKWELL: Doctor, let's turn to you to assuage some fears here.

We know that health experts have said that this was going to happen, inevitable that Omicron would show up in the U.S. But there might be some people who are a bit anxious now that it has been discovered in California.

How different is the public health picture now at 2:19 Eastern than it was at 12:19, now that we know that the case is here? Is it dramatically different?

DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, FORMER DIRECTOR, DETROIT HEALTH DEPARTMENT: I will be honest with you, Victor. No.

[14:20:01]

The fact of the matter is, is that the most dominant concern that we have with COVID-19 right now is still Delta. Think about it. We have one identified case of Omicron. And we have thousands of identified cases of Delta.

And the way that anyone can prevent either Omicron or Delta is by doing the same things we have been telling folks to do when it comes to COVID-19 for at least since the beginning of the pandemic and since we have had vaccines, which is to get vaccinated if you haven't been, to get boosted if you haven't gotten that, to make sure that you're wearing masks in crowded public indoor settings, and to make sure that you're doing basic things like washing your hands and making decisions about whether or not you may want to even take up risk by engaging in certain kinds of social activities.

Nothing really profoundly has changed. Now, from a public health perspective, right, there is a lot of reason that our public health institutions, our public health work force does need to ramp up, whether it's on genomic surveillance, or it's on contact tracing. There's a lot that we can do that, frankly, we ought to have been doing for a long time to prevent Omicron from spreading the way that we know that it has in South Africa.

But for everyday folks, right, that nothing really has changed. The key thing is just keep doing the things. Or, if you haven't been doing those things, do those things that we know can prevent COVID-19 of any stripe.

CAMEROTA: Doctor, another question for you, because I take comfort, possibly misplaced, in hearing from the doctors in South Africa, because they have seen more cases of this than we have. So they have been dealing with this for it looks like a couple of weeks or 10 days now.

So here is what one of the doctors from the South African Medical Association said about the types of cases or symptoms that they're seeing there this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MVUYISI MZUKWA, VICE CHAIRMAN, SOUTH AFRICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: What we see on the ground is that we're seeing a younger patients, and we're seeing milder cases of Omicron.

But, also, we -- what we have noted is that the people that are being hospitalized are largely unvaccinated. About 90 percent of those are unvaccinated. There is nothing much that we see beyond what we have seen with the Delta variant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Doctor, as you would expect, 90 percent of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated, just as we see here, but he's saying that they have seen only mild -- mostly mild cases thus far. Is it too soon to have seen more severe cases?

EL-SAYED: Well, circumstantial evidence is evidence. It's just not high-quality evidence. And it is good that the early circumstantial evidence out of South Africa suggests that the cases tend to be mild and that the folks who are getting hospitalized, similar to Delta and other variants, tend to be folks who have been unvaccinated, meaning the vaccines may confer a level of protection.

Now, that is early circumstantial evidence. One of the hard parts about this pandemic, generally is that we have got to wait for the science on this. This is new. It is new to our understanding of COVID- 19. And there's a lot more science between here and firm answers on whether or not it is, in fact, substantially more transmissible, whether or not it is less severe, whether or not it may have some vaccine escape.

And so between now and then, I think the key thing that we all have to do is make sure that we're doing what it takes to protect ourselves from COVID-19 of any stripe, and to wait and sit back and let the science do its part.

That being said, it is important to find places where you can take comfort, and it is great to hear from physicians who are treating patients that, in fact, the cases are more mild. But I would put an asterisk on it. Just remember that the early clusters tended to be among younger people, who tend to have better outcomes generally, and circumstantial early evidence is just not the kind that we can hang our hat on.

So it is good to take heart, but let's let the science do its thing. And, meanwhile, let's do our part to protect ourselves from COVID-19, no matter what variant it is.

BLACKWELL: Phil, Dr. Fauci and President Biden were asked today about this revelation from former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, that, according to "The Guardian," he has written in his new book, "The Chief's Chief," that former President Trump tested positive for coronavirus a few days before the first debate in 2020.

It seemed like that President Biden didn't want to talk about it. And we got kind of, I would say, a gloss-over from Dr. Fauci too.

MATTINGLY: Yes, a circular no comment from Dr. Fauci, essentially, and President Biden sticking with what his line really has been, guys, for the last 11 months any time you ask him about his predecessor, which was, "I don't think about the former president."

I think when you talk to a former campaign hands from the Biden team, they were obviously very concerned about this heading into that debate. There was real concern about the posture of the Trump campaign operation, the Trump family when it came to protection, when it came to wearing masks, when it came to the president not taking that final test before the debate.

But I think when you talk to White House officials about what that moment means for now, they just don't bite. And I think that's been a consistent theme over the course of the last several months.

But I think it's also a recognition that, in terms of what they're trying to do, particularly in this moment in time, with this new variant now arriving in the United States, they don't see any upside to engaging about what it means or didn't mean back in October of 2020, but instead want to focus on what they care about, what they think is most important, I think, in their minds right now for the success of their administration.

[14:25:17]

And that's, to be quite honest, boosters and vaccines at this point in time, and trying to get as much information as possible about the new variant.

BLACKWELL: All right, Phil Mattingly for us there at the White House, Stephanie Elam, and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, thank you all.

And, as a reminder, CNN is hosting a global town hall to answer your questions about this new Omicron variant. Join Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, also Dr. Anthony Fauci. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

CAMEROTA: OK.

Meanwhile, the prosecutor in Oakland County, Michigan, has just announced charges against the alleged gunman in that deadly high school shooting.

We're going to talk to a student who was in the school next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)