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Michigan Sheriff Updates Investigation Into Deadly School Shooting; Ethan Crumbley, the Teen Suspect in Michigan School Shooting Being Arraigned. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 01, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

SHERIFF MICHAEL BOUCHARD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: Never went into a room. He was in the hallway the whole time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have one more question. Did he ever spend any time in a mental facility at all, do we know that?

BOUCHARD: Not that I'm aware of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you aware of the shooter going to a gun range in the days before the event, to train with the weapon?

BOUCHARD: We're told by different people that he had. There's some social media post that is allege that. We have not had the ability to verify at this point. If there was a range or if that happened, and that's, again -- I mean, understand the scope of this that the school has almost 1,800 students. So, everybody that was in school that day, we have to contact to see if they saw, heard or knew anything. And we have to review every bit of video footage from all of the cameras in that building. Which there is an extensive camera system thanks to the proactive work of Oxford schools.

And I'll also say on the proactive side, we've worked with Oxford schools, our liaison, taught them and Alice, that saved lives. And after going through the scene last night, and seeing it in a very non- rushed fashion, those practices were used and they saved lives. Desks were upturned, doors were barricaded. Doors were actually hit by gunfire and so were barricades, but the doors were safe. So, that behavior, that training, and those protocols saved lives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When was the last time there was training at that school? Was it for teachers or --?

BOUCHARD: I believe it was just prior to COVID, maybe 2018.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, you've talked at length last night and today about the training --

BOUCHARD: 2019, 2018, somewhere in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forgive me, you talk at lengthwise today about the training of your team, the kids going through drills but no mention about gun legislation. Maybe trying to do things upstream to prevent these types of occurrences. The prosecutor talked about it a half hour ago. Do you have anything you want to share in your view with regards to whether that --?

BOUCHARD: Yes, I mean I think I have a feeling a lot of law enforcement has, we have a whole lot of gun laws that are meant to hold criminals accountable whether they commit a crime, when they use a gun, when they carry a gun illegally, and they're not utilized today. And that's one of our constant concerns around the country. I'm head of government affairs, for Major County Sheriffs of America and we see this across the nation.

We catch somebody illegally with a gun, and it's pled down to a misdemeanor. And they're out. We have had people, you know, that have been charged with gun crimes three and four times. I believe the surest way to get a handle on holding people accountable when they're doing things illegally with a gun is to punish them. And that's not happening in many communities across America today. There is a NICS background check when you go to attempt to purchase a firearm that requires you to go through this.

There's a huge number of people that are prohibited from buying that firearm that are caught by the system that are never prosecuted for trying. We have gun laws in place. We're not holding people accountable. We have felony firearm in Michigan. I would like to see anybody that's caught illegally possessing and using a firearm in a criminal manner should get felony firearm and do hard time. If we're going to hold people accountable, let's hold the criminals accountable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything in the father's history that should have precluded him from being able to buy that firearm.

BOUCHARD: Not that I'm aware to have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: frustrating is it to -- I know you mentioned that you guys have been trying to talk to the suspect and his parents and telling them not to talk. How frustrating is it for you and your deputies, and your investigators?

BOUCHARD: I believe regardless of what the parents or the individual suspect does, our investigators are well on the path to create a very, very good case to hand the baton to the prosecutor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, I have one more question about the actual shooting. In a crowded hallway in a school, in close approximate proximity, did the initial victims even know what was happening on while they were inside? The reason I'm asking -- I'm a parent, I know how kids walk through a hallway. You tell your kids, you know, keep your eyes open, be careful but if a kid is walking next to or behind somebody, you don't if it requires attention -- there's not a whole lot you can do. If the initial victims who were shot, did they actually know what the heck was going on when it happened?

BOUCHARD: I would have to say no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, we're told that there was a deputy who was helping out at the school yesterday. Do you have more information on who she is, and how she was able to help out?

[15:35:00]

BOUCHARD: Their private security is employed by the school district in addition to us having school resource officer that covers Oxford schools. And I know some of them were there yesterday. I'm not sure all the specific ones. So, we really don't want to get into identifying personnel at this point but there were private security people employed by the school, and I know at least one or two were there yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, the prosecutor said -- I'm sorry, she said it's being considered or looked into. But from where you sit with the evidence you found, do you see any potential criminal negligence on behalf of the parents?

BOUCHARD: I think that would have to be a TBD, as the investigation -- to be determined -- as the investigation unfolds and we present it to the prosecutor and then she'll make the decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, how did the gun get inside the building?

BOUCHARD: You know, it's speculative, obviously, but my guess is he carried it in, either in his backpack or in his waist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, and I apologize for the repetitive question. Can you explain again the meeting of that morning and the day before, the meeting with his parents about his behavior.

BOUCHARD: The day before was a meeting with school personnel about some concerning behavior and the meeting the day of was with school personnel and parents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About the same issues?

BOUCHARD: About a different issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that issue the day of?

BOUCHARD: I really can't go into the specific issues on either day, but two different meetings happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us any insight into his mental state? There was obviously, he's on suicide watch, if he's moved to a county jail, will that be continued for their concerns about it?

BOUCHARD: Well, typically anytime you have somebody with an active participating role in a tragedy such as this, they are put on suicide watch, just to ensure that nothing happens. So, that's kind of SOP -- standard operating procedure -- and absolutely, if he gets transferred to the Oakland County jail, that will happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been a number of copycat threats throughout the county today --

BOUCHARD: Sadly. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- already beyond busy, but I assume they have

already taxed your resources.

BOUCHARD: Yes, spot on, Ross. Yes, there's some weird anomaly, every time something like this happens in the country, there's a whole bunch of copycat threats, and texts, and pictures, and it really burdens law enforcement all across the nation who are actually in schools today investigating what we think are part of that incredibly disturbing trend.

And that's, again, it raises the level of anxiety of parents, students and teachers in schools that had nothing to do with this individual incident but are now feeling very much anxious and tied to it. And that's how it broadens this whole anxiety and depression that many parents and students are feeling. And it's incredibly disturbing.

And so, when those kids or whoever we find out will call in or do these texts false threats, you know, as you've seen us in the past, we attempt to get charges on them. Even if it's not a credible threat, the mere threat is a crime, and if you make a threat, we're going to seek charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, apologies on the redundancy. No evidence of bullying from where you sit right now. Correct?

BOUCHARD: I specifically, myself asked the school district, they had no information in any of their records that he had been bullied. And we have had no information brought to our attention from any other source that he had been bullied.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff, the prosecutor said that had been planning for a while. Do you know if the FBI was aware of any of his prior --?

BOUCHARD: At this point, I'm not aware any law enforcement agency had him or the school on their radar for this particular incident at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For this particular incident. What about previous incidents?

BOUCHARD: Any incident involving him. He wasn't on any law enforcement radar that I'm aware of. Certainly not ours. We had no communication about him or about anything that was pending, and I haven't heard from any law enforcement agency that they did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the suspect a gamer that he had been (INAUDIBLE)?

BOUCHARD: Apparently, he was interested in games. I can't really comment on what those were at this point. That obviously is something that will be looked at as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff is the belief that he took the gun legally or was given the gun illegally. BOUCHARD: That's part of the investigation. In any event, he had the

gun illegally. Took the gun illegally into the school and used the gun in an illegal and murderous fashion. So, we've got a whole bunch of charges already regardless of how he came into possession of it.

[15:40:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any clarity you can give on his familiarity with weapons, perhaps gun range use, et cetera, in terms of his background and familiarity with guns.

BOUCHARD: I don't know much beyond what we saw in evidence in the school, and that will be part of the investigation obviously. With this particular weapon, it's our understanding it was purchased four days ago. So, this particular weapon probably not a huge amount of familiarity with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But over the years, other weapons?

BOUCHARD: That's part of the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your perspective on the terrorism charge, the impact of that message?

BOUCHARD: I agree 100 percent, you know, if you weren't hit by a bullet, doesn't mean you weren't terrorized that day, and won't have nightmares about it the rest of your life. Whether you're a parent, a teacher or a student in that class, you know, going through that building in the wee hours of this morning, looking at the disarray in the classrooms, and the backpacks strewn across the floor, that had to have been an absolutely terrorizing moment in anyone's life. I don't care if you're an adult or a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much more time do you expect on processing at the school itself. Are you pretty much done?

BOUCHARD: We're pretty much wrapped up with the physical processing in the school, not necessarily the evidence that we obtained from it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a search warrant executed at the parents' house are there additional properties you're looking at that require similar searches?

BOUCHARD: We did see some property at the house, and our detectives are going through it. So, I think I mentioned this before, we've got a lot of different bundles here we're fortunate to have under our own roof. We have our own crime lab. So, they're processing things as it related to the scene and items that were seized there. We have commuter crimes looking at any kind of digital evidence including his phone. You know, we have detectives looking at any potential documents or other things that may contain information or things relative to, you know, some of his thoughts, maybe might be contained in some of that. So, a lot of those things are kind of spanned out to all of our different specialists and. And then they'll be brought together under the officer in charge of the case and relayed to the prosecutor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us any details on what was seized or maybe the volume of material that was seized?

BOUCHARD: I can't get into the details of what was seized. I can just tell you we have a voluminous amount of stuff and things to do. Stuff to go through and thanks to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, I just have one more question, and I believe you answered it previously so I apologize for that. Will your investigators, will they have a follow up conversation with the school in regards to why you guys were not informed about that meeting or his behavior?

BOUCHARD: Certainly, our investigators will be -- and are in close contact with that school, and we're in close contact with all schools in Oakland County, and we encourage all schools, public or private, houses of worship, businesses, anyone that has any concerning behavior, they should report it. Allow law enforcement the opportunity to make the situation safe, to say there's nothing to it or we need to look deeper. That's what we want to do. It's not a burden, so we encourage people wherever they are, if they're concerned about something, let us know or let your local police know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The term concerning behavior, does that constitute threats in specific?

BOUCHARD: I don't want to get too awfully into what was concerning because then I get into the actual content. But, you know, it's one of those things if someone looks at it and you go, oh, that doesn't seem right. Whether it's threatening or disturbing or maybe they're worried about, you know, someone being bullied or suicidal. We have obviously, a huge problem in America with suicide, especially teens. If they see something that may cross into any of those realms, it needs to be shared so we can figure out. A, if it's a threat to anyone else or themselves, and B, where to get help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have indication why didn't share (INAUDIBLE) office?

BOUCHARD: That's all part of our discussion with them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Share, did you know about the meeting with the school and his parents that morning?

BOUCHARD: Did who know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, did the suspect -- did he know he was going to be meet with school officials and his parents?

BOUCHARD: No, he was brought into the meeting and his parents were called.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So, I was asking because did he ever leave the school after that meeting?

BOUCHARD: No, not --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was already in school, so the gun was somewhere in the school.

[15:45:00]

BOUCHARD: Still again, it's still moving, we believe it was. I can't definitively say one hundred percent that it was, but we believe it was. Because we have begun the process of tracking his movements and saw at what point, and where he came out with the weapon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff, do you think that some kind of a red flag law would have helped prevent this crime at all? I don't even know if something like that even exists for a minor. Could guns have been taken from their home or --?

BOUCHARD: You know, I don't necessarily think so. I think the most important thing is to share information. Because I mean for anything whether what you're talking about or a different process you have to share. You have to say this seems concerning can you look into it? And with or without that, we would, and say, hey, what's going on? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? What have you seen? And try to determine where it's coming from and where it might lead?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, you mentioned the private security, were they affiliated with the school or --?

BOUCHARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the meeting in the morning with the school and the parents, did the suspect go back to class, he released back to --?

BOUCHARD: He was released back into the school from the meeting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any video of where he retrieved the weapon from, like a locker or somewhere?

BOUCHARD: Again, the first time we saw the weapon actually in evidence was when he came out of the bathroom. So, you know, every other moment in time, it wasn't observed. So, whether it was concealed on his person or in a backpack or hidden somewhere in the restroom, that is all part of the investigation if we can determine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's been some discussion of metal detectors in schools, I'm wondering if that would have prevented (INAUDIBLE) what are your thoughts on that?

BOUCHARD: The vast majority of schools in America do not weapons or metal detectors, and you know, that's a determination for each district about what kind of environment they want to be operating in, but I know for a fact one of the last debriefs I got on a school shooter, he came in through a back door. You know, somebody was going out, and he came in, walked in with a firearm, and began shooting.

So, you know, there's tragically nothing foolproof in a world where you have people that want to hurt other people. But again, the best preventative path that we've seen that has worked is to make sure everyone talks about something they've seen, heard or witnessed, so it can get looked into, to put training and protocols in place.

And in fact, that situation that I just mentioned where somebody came in a door, that was a nontraditional door. They had radios as a school system all around the building, and anyone in the school was empowered to put the school in to lockdown. And so, a grounds keeper or a janitor -- I can't remember his actual position -- saw the person with the firearm going into the school and called it out on the radio. The school went into lock down. They still had I believe one or two students killed, but everybody else was in lock down, and the police were able to get there before anymore perished.

So, processes, training, communication that's some of the best paths that we've seen in terms of success.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, will you be releasing new video footage from inside the school?

BOUCHARD: No, at this point that would become a handoff to the prosecutor for evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 14-year-old with a gunshot wound to the jaw and hand has been discharged.

BOUCHARD: Recent update, the 14-year-old with the gunshot wound to the hand and jaw has been discharged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any update on the young girl described yesterday on a ventilator after a chest wound and surgery?

BOUCHARD: I think she's still --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's off the ventilator now.

BOUCHARD: She's off the ventilator but she's still critical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BOUCHARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you mention the kinds of leads covering this?

BOUCHARD: It's probably happening almost as we speak. It's going to be a video arraignment, so the detective's driving in person to the district court where he's going to swear to the warrant, then they're going to connect via video, and arraign the suspect to that court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) can you relay the names of the folks that are still hospitalized and in critical condition?

BOUCHARD: No, we're not naming the victims that are hospitalized. I mean even the ones that are deceased we're sad to hear that they've been negatively impacted. You know, we had hoped it would be uplifting and supportive rather than focusing attention that they don't want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At any point in the video, did anybody try to disarm him or were people just running from him?

[15:50:00]

BOUCHARD: I don't -- nothing I saw tells me that, and I'm not sure that we have any information on that front that has come to me. So, the part I saw, there was no attempt, but, obviously, when you've got somebody very close firing a weapon, that's not almost anybody's natural response to go towards it other than police and military. And that's with extensive training.

Anybody else? Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, that's Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard giving a lot of new information about the shooting at Oxford High School. Also tamping down some misinformation which is also important.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Very helpful. So, helpful all the information he gave.

BLACKWELL: On the right side of your screen, you're seeing live from Rochester Hills there. This is going to be the video arraignment of that suspected shooter. And we're going to bring that to you of course live.

But what we had learned here, what I think most crucial was this interaction both on Monday and on Tuesday with school personnel and then just hours before the shooting, with the suspected shooter's parents about concerning behavior there in the school.

CAMEROTA: I so appreciated the sheriff's style of being so forthcoming there. I thought that was really helpful and that interaction with school personnel is very interesting but he wasn't able to tell us exactly what that was about. He said that he had asked specifically about bullying, if this suspect had a history of having been bullied and he said the school said no. They had no history of that. So, he said there was some sort of concerning behavior of this suspect that the school had flagged and called his parents in for.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the prosecutor is now going to get all of that information. A lot of the questions that the reporters had there, the sheriff had some answers but, of course, wants to hand this over to the prosecutor, doesn't want to negatively impact the case.

Again, that process is about to start. Let's bring in now CNN's Shimon Prokupecz and CNN's national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Juliette, I understand you listened to what we heard from the sheriff there. What stood out to you?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: What stood out to me is a student who's never seems to have been disciplined or complained about bullying, doesn't seem to have been anyone's focus, his father buys a gun over Thanksgiving weekend. By Monday, the kid has some incident that brings him to a principal or some guidance counselor. Tuesday there's a second incident and now the kid's parents are in there and he has the gun on campus.

That's how truncated this is at this stage. I mean there's a five-day period over Thanksgiving with no hints or clues. So, the only variable of course is, he had access to a gun because it doesn't seem like this was a long-term thing. At least what we know right now.

That really stood out to me that this is just a -- an odd situation in terms of -- in terms of his motivation.

CAMEROTA: Juliette, hold on, sorry to interrupt and Shimon, stand by if you would. The arraignment of this suspect is beginning.

JUDGE NANCY CARNIAK, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: Lieutenant Tim Willis, if you could state your full name, and spell it for our court reporter, please

LIEUTENANT TIM WILLIS, SHERIFF, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: Yes, Lieutenant Tim Willis, that's W-I-L-L-I-S, the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.

CARNIAK: Thank you. If you please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the information you're about to provide the court will be truthful, accurate and to the best of your ability so help you God?

WILLIS: I do your honor.

CARNIAK: Thank you. And what information do you have that would lead the court to believe that a complaint and warrant should be issued against Ethan Robert Crumbley?

WILLIS: Your honor, on Tuesday, November 30th, at -- would you have me remove my mask on or keep it?

CARNIAK: It's up to you whatever you feel most comfortable with.

WILLIS: Thank you, your honor.

On November -- on Tuesday, November 30th at approximately 12:52 p.m., Sheriff's Office deputies were dispatched to Oxford High School located at 745 North Oxford, Oxford Township, County of Oakland, State of Michigan for the report of multiple gunshots being fired in or around the school.

As deputies were responding to the scene, they witnessed numerous students and staff fleeing from the area. The first two deputies on scene immediately deployed to the area of the high school taking a 15- year-old student into custody later identified as Ethan Crumbley, 15- year-old, Oxford Township resident.

Preliminarily on the scene, the victims identified were a 16-year-old male who was deceased, a 14-year-old female who was deceased, a 17- year-old female who was deceased, a 17-year-old male who later was deceased at the hospital.

A 14-year-old male, gunshot wound. 17-year-old female, gunshot wound. 15-year-old male, gunshot wound. 17-year-old male, gunshot wound.

[15:55:00]

47-year-old female, gunshot wound. 14-year-old female, gunshot wound and a 17-year-old female, gunshot wound.

As a result of his keeping, Crumbley was lodged at Oakland County Children's Village on homicide and attempted homicide with the on-duty referee approval.

There was a weapon recovered from Ethan. It was a 9-millimeter SIG Sauer automatic handgun.

The additional investigation revealed that school security video of the shooting incident perpetrated by Ethan, the school security video shows Ethan exit a bathroom in the hallway and begin shooting at students then proceeds to shoot students who are actively fleeing.

He continues to shoot in a (INAUDIBLE) manner until apprehended by deputies. Two separate videos recovered from Ethan's cell phone taken at a search warrant depicted a video made by him the night before the incident wherein he talked about shooting and killing students the next day at Oxford High School.

Further, a journal was recovered from Ethan's backpack also detailing his desire to shoot up the school to include murdering students. A preliminary review of social media accounts indicate that Ethan Crumbley had access to a firearm and he practiced with a SIG Sauer handgun.

CARNIAK: Thank you. And I just want to ask the people, because these individuals who aren't specifically identified by name, is that because they are minors? Does that need to be done as it relates to each particular victim? They are in the complainant warrant but obviously not sworn to by the officer here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are listed in the complainant warrant and at this stage I'd ask Lieutenant Willis to name those individuals so that the (INAUDIBLE) complaint warrant.

CARNIAK: Thank you. So, if you can just go through each one, one by one, for -- starting with, obviously -- well, actually with count one, which indicates the terrorism causing death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CARNIAK: Do you have a copy of the complaint warrant?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

CARNIAK: OK.

WILLIS: Count one, did knowingly, willfully, deliberately and with premeditation commit murder in the first degree. A violent felony that the defendant knew or had reason to know was dangerous to human life when intending to intimidate, force a civilian population to wit the Oxford High School community and cause the deaths of Madisyn Baldwin, Tate Myre, Hana St. Juliana and Justin Shilling.

CARNIAK: OK, thank you. And then you have four counts of homicide first degree. If you could just indicate those individuals that are deceased.

WILLIS: Yes, ma'am. So, the deceased are Tate Myre, Hanna St. Julian, Madisyn Baldwin, Justin Shilling,

CARNIAK: And then assault with intent to murder. It looks like there's seven victims. Is that correct?

WILLIS: Yes, your honor.

CARNIAK: OK, if you could -- those are the people that received gunshot wounds. If you could just indicate --

CAMEROTA: All right. We're just going to drop out for a second here because the sheriff hadn't wanted to say the names of the people who were injured. We don't know about their families' permission. They're all minors. So, we're dropping out for a second of that live televised arraignment.

But we did hear lots of information from that deputy who it seems like may have been first on the scene and what he saw and all the evidence that we didn't know about from the sheriff.

BLACKWELL: Yes, especially this video that they say that this suspect made the night before the shooting. This would have been Monday night in which they say that he talked about wanting to murder students, wanting to shoot at the school. Also, a journal they say that was in his backpack that had a similar indication.

So, we're going to take you back to that courtroom in Rochester Hills.

WILLIS: Oh, here I've got it, your honor. I'm sorry.

CARNIAK: No problem.

WILLIS: Did make an assault upon Phoebe Arthur (ph) with the intent to commit the crime of murder.

CARNIAK: Thank you. And go ahead, count seven.

WILLIS: Yup, did make an assault upon John Assudo (ph) with intent to commit the crime of murder.

CARNIAK: And count eight?

WILLIS: Did make an assault upon Molly Darnell (ph) with the intent to commit the crime of murder.

CARNIAK: And count nine. WILLIS: Did make an assault upon Riley Franz (ph) with the intent to

commit the crime of murder.

CARNIAK: And count ten.

WILLIS: Did make an assault upon Elijah Mueller (ph) with the intent to commit the crime of murder.

CARNIAK: And count eleven.

[16:00:00]