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Baldwin: "I Didn't Pull the Trigger" In Fatal Movie Set Shooting; Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) Discusses The Supreme Court Abortion Case, Progressives Ramping Up Calls To Punish Rep. Lauren Boebert; McConnell Responds As Two Conservative GOP Senators Threaten To Block Vote To Fund Government. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 02, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Alec Baldwin is making some new claims about that deadly accidental shooting on the set of his movie, "Rust."

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: During an emotional TV interview, Baldwin claimed he did not pull the trigger on the gun that killed Halyna Hutchins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX BALDWIN, ACTOR: She was someone who was loved by everyone who worked with and liked by everyone who worked with here and admired.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: It wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled.

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you never pulled the trigger?

BIDEN: No, no. I would never point a gun and pull the trigger at anyone ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: At least one crew member is backing up Baldwin's claim, but another has filed a lawsuit, and his attorney says Baldwin is flat wrong.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov joins us now.

Lucy, what are you hearing about all of this?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn. It's becoming a bit of a "he said, she said." That revelation from Alec Baldwin that he did not pull the trigger, being disputed by Serge Svetnoy. He's the head lighting technician for "Rust."

He's also suing Baldwin and others, claiming that the lethal bullet that almost hit him, as well, and he suffered severe emotional distress because of that death on set.

His lawyer issuing a statement to CNN blasting Mr. Baldwin's comments, saying -- and I want to read from the statement -- quote, "Guns only fire when someone pulls the trigger or if someone pulls the hammer back and lets it go. Either way, the gun was in Mr. Baldwin's hands when it fired the bullet and he bears responsibility for the harm done."

"As the producer and actor on the "Rust" set, he knew or should have known all the corners that were cut on safety and about all of the serious safety violations occurring on a regular basis on his film."

Now it's important to note that this preview clip did not include the actor's explanation on how he thinks the gun went off. Investigators say he saw in costume, he was practicing a cross draw when the deadly shot was fired.

The focus of the investigation now, how those live rounds ended up on that set. Investigators initially determined that two other people had handled the loaded gun before it discharged.

That was the film's armorer, Hannah Guiterrez-Reed, as well as the assistant director, Dave Halls.

Halls' attorney also spoke to CNN, corroborating what we heard from Alec Baldwin.

She said, and I quote, "Halls told me, from the first time we met, that he did not see Baldwin pull the trigger. He said to me that Baldwin appeared to be holding a gun in a safe manner like you're supposed to on set. Halls told me Baldwin did not have his finger on the trigger."

We know this was an hour-long interview. It's supposed to be airing this evening.

Baldwin appearing emotional, as you saw in that clip. He also described this incident as one of the worst experiences of his life.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you're not a victim. But is this the worst thing that's ever happened to you?

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. Yes. Because I -- I think back and I think of what could I have done?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: Again, a lot of unanswered questions. We're hoping to learn more when this interview airs -- Alisyn, Victor?

CAMEROTA: OK, Lucy Kafanov, thank you for the reporting.

Let's discuss this with Scott Coscia. He's a veteran movie stunt coordinator and armorer. He's also a former member of the NYPD.

Scott, great to see you again.

Can a gun go off without someone pulling the trigger?

SCOTT COSCIA, VETERAN MOVIE STUNT COORDINATOR AND ARMORER & FORMER MEMBER, NYPD: So, the more information that comes out, the more questions I have.

This was an old west style cowboy gun and it's being called an antique. I want to know how old was this gun actually? If it is before 1898, the ATF does consider it an antique.

Is it just a modern replica that looks like an antique? This is a gun that has to be fired single action and single action only.

And gun safety has evolved where there are internal safeties, where the only way on a modern firearm you can discharge a round is by pulling the trigger.

So, in the older ones, it's possible, if you pull the hammer back, to kind of discharge a round. I've not heard of it happening that often, but I'm going to assume that it can happen.

So, just to give you an idea. This is a replica, OK? This is a -- it shoots B.B.s for all intents and purposes. And this is a clean weapon. There's no ammo in it.

So, the only way to fire this is by having the hammer back like that. OK? You can't fire it, what's called double action. It will not fire. So you have to depress the hammer.

CAMEROTA: OK.

COSCIA: Is there a chance that maybe as he was drawing -- so he's doing a cross-draw maneuver, where you actually kind of cross your body? Normally, you keep your weapon on your shooting side, shooting hand side, and you draw straight.

But in the old west, they used to cross draw. And we see why potentially it's not a good idea to have a weapon in that way.

Could the hammer have got caught on a coat or something? Possible. It is absolutely possible. I can't discount that. I wasn't there. I did not see the incident.

But to have it actually discharge and then, in that direction, seems a little odd to me.

[14:35:05]

BLACKWELL: And what we know is that Alec Baldwin was practicing a cross draw when this happened, so what you say is plausible, if it gets caught there, but there's no scenario under which someone, an armorer, would hand that weapon to Alec Baldwin with the hammer already cocked? COSCIA: I would absolutely hope not.

Any time I hand a weapon to talent, it goes from my holster to the talent. And I let them know -- sometimes I have to set up a weapon with rounds in it. So I let them know, there's two rounds. We're going to discharge two rounds. The whole set knows.

I use my cop training and I project my voice and I'm very loud onset and kind of domineering. But I let everybody know we are discharging two rounds.

Or, if it's a clean weapon, I hold it up. And I would never, ever, ever hand a cocked weapon to an actor.

CAMEROTA: I mean, one of the things that's curious is the assistant director, Dave Halls, who's also implicated in this, because, you know, there are -- he might have been the one to hand it to Alec Baldwin.

His attorney says -- has backed up Alec Baldwin's claim.

And here's the quote of the attorney: "Dave has told me, since the very first day I met him, that Alec did not pull the trigger. His finger was never in the trigger guard."

So, again, I mean, it just raises more questions.

And also, why would there be a live round anywhere on the set? That's not supposed to happen to begin with.

CASCIO: No. And understand something. This isn't your common, everyday round. This is a -- a .45 long Colt. It's not that common of a round. It's really only for cowboy guns.

So there had to be an effort to bring this specific round to set for this specific gun, so I don't understand.

I say, live ammo and blanks should never be in the same zip code on a movie set. There's no place for live ammo ever to be onset.

BLACKWELL: Scott Coscia, always good to have you. You help us understand how this could have happened.

Although, there are lots of questions, including this shooting was in October. Why are we now in December, hearing for the first time that Alec Baldwin said he didn't pull the trigger? And would he have said that days after this shooting.

Scott, thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Scott.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Let's move to House progressives -- sure -- are circulating a letter that calls for Republican Lauren Boebert to be stripped of her committee assignments after a hateful remark about Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. We're going to speak to a member of the Progressive Caucus about this tactic, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:11]

BLACKWELL: Well, the Supreme Court appears to be open to upholding a restrictive Mississippi law that bans abortions after 15 weeks.

Now, some abortion rights advocates fear that the 6-3 conservative court could completely gut the protections of Roe v. Wade.

Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Lee, of California, is with me now.

Congresswoman, thank you for spending a few moments with me.

You have been -- I know you were there with some demonstrators in front of the Supreme Court yesterday.

You talked this summer about your own abortion at a time before it was legal here in the U.S.

If the court guts the protection from Roe v. Wade and dozens of states outlaw it in this country, what does that look like?

REP. BARBARA LEE (D-CA): Thanks a lot for having me with you this afternoon.

And what it looks like is that people would be denied access to reproductive freedom, which means the end of Roe vs. Wade.

And so what we have to do here in Congress is to make sure that the Senate passes Congresswoman Judy Chu's bill, the Women's Health Protection Act, so that we can codify into law freedom and access to the full range of reproductive healthcare, which includes abortions.

BLACKWELL: Well, in the current make-up of the Senate, that seems very unlikely that you'll get ten Republican votes for that or all 50 Democratic votes for it, actually.

Let's focus on the court, though. Chief Justice Roberts seemed to be trying to find a way to avoid the full gut of Roe, mostly because of his deference to precedent of Roe and Casey in the '90s.

Considering the make-up of the court, and what you heard yesterday, is that more likely? Is that the best plausible outcome, considering what you heard from the justices?

LEE: Well, the best plausible outcome would be that they rule on behalf of people in this country in terms of not taking away reproductive rights.

And you know, it's my understanding -- and I'm going to verify this -- that if they rule on behalf of the Mississippi case, that this would be the first time that rights would be taken away. And so I believe that we have to make sure that we move very aggressively forward and organize politically to hold members of the Senate accountable to pass the Women's Health Protection Act.

Because it's clear to me that the court is being politicized. And, in fact, Roe v. Wade has been the framework and the law of the land for 50 years.

And so now, the court is possibly going to take away those rights that have been here for 50 years, and that is unacceptable.

BLACKWELL: All right, a few months, potentially, until we get a decision from the court.

Let me turn to something that's happening this hour. I just got a copy of a draft of a letter that's circulating from some of your House progressive colleagues that calls for consequences for Congresswoman Boebert after her comments about Ilhan Omar, Representative Omar.

[14:45:13]

Have you signed on to this? And what would you like to see after those Islamophobic comments?

LEE: Well, first of all, I'm speaking personally, and I have to say that these comments were despicable. And it shows, the Speaker Pelosi has really asked her members, in terms of input, in terms of our response.

And so, yes, I'm going to sign whatever letter comes forth because I do believe that she should be stripped of her committees.

You know, hate speech leads to hate violence. And Leader McCarthy, he's just lost control over his unhinged caucus. And so we're working now to try to make sure that we move forward with the most appropriate measures.

And I do believe, personally -- again, I'm not speaking for any caucus or anyone else, I'm speaking on behalf of myself -- that she should be held accountable.

Hate speech leads to hate violence. This is not only about attacking a religion, the Muslim religion. What it does is set people up to be attacked as it relates to their physical security.

We know that what she said and implied. But it was very clear that she was calling her a terrorist and a member of the jihadist terrorist group.

And come on. You can't allow people to do this to anyone. Because it puts everyone at risk. So, we should take the most stringent action we can.

BLACKWELL: Should that be -- mean that she's pulled from her committees?

LEE: I personally think so, yes.

BLACKWELL: The reporting is that we have -- is that, behind closed doors, Speaker Pelosi is telling the caucus to consider the potential that this could backfire.

That this will be used as it has been for other members, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paul Gosar, for fundraising, to give them publicity, to actually help their cause.

Your consideration of that?

LEE: Well, it is being used for fundraising, and we know exactly why they're doing this. That's one issue.

But you cannot allow members of Congress to be put at risk, anyone in our country to be put at risk through hate speech because hate speech leads to hate violence.

As I said, the speaker is talking to members of Congress to determine the most appropriate response.

I personally believe that she should be held accountable. And what that means for me, personally, again, is that we should take the most stringent measures.

Come on. If a Democrat said something like that or conducted themselves in that way, I, too, would be doing the same thing, and taking the same position.

BLACKWELL: Yes, you make it clear that you're speaking in your personal capacity. This letter being floated by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal and representative from New York.

Congresswoman Barbara Lee, thank you so much for your time.

LEE: Thank you very much. My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: OK, two Republican Senators are threatening to shut down the entire government over vaccine mandates. GOP leader, Mitch McConnell, is now responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:42]

BLACKWELL: A few GOP Senators are threatening to block the continuing resolution to fund the government ahead of tomorrow's midnight deadline unless they add an amendment to de not defund the president's business vaccine mandate.

CAMEROTA: President Biden said he spoke to both Senators McConnell and Schumer about the possibility and he's not worried.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think that will happen. We have everything in place to make sure unless some individual (INAUDIBLE).

I spoke with Mitch McConnell. I spoke with Schumer. There's a plan in place unless somebody decides to be totally erratic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that's always possible.

CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is with us.

What are you hearing from lawmakers, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not up to Joe Biden. It's also not up to Mitch McConnell, even though McConnell told me moments ago there will not be a government shutdown.

But it is all up to 100 Senators to hold hands and say, OK, we will agree to have a vote to keep the government open until mid-February.

The way this was negotiated, this bill was dropped today to keep the government open past Friday, up until February 18. That was just introduced.

Because of the late nature of this, every Senator has leverage to delay the final vote because they need to have what's called unanimous consent.

All 100 Senators need to agree to have a vote by Friday, by the deadline, before midnight tomorrow. Otherwise, there will be a shutdown.

If one Senator objects, that would force the majority leader, Chuck Schumer, to go through the process, which takes days to get to a final vote.

Meaning, there could be a government shutdown up until next week if that agreement is not reached.

And it's all because of a handful of conservative Republicans who are demanding a vote to defund Biden's vaccine mandate on employees. They want a vote set at a simple majority threshold, 51 votes. That would help it pass.

One of the Senators, Roger Marshall, said he is not concerned about federal jobs being lost. He said he's more concerned about Kansas employers being hit by this mandate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): I think that the jobs in Kansas outweigh these federal jobs that would be shut down.

MANU: You wouldn't be concerned about the federal jobs that would be lost?

MARSHALL: Of course, I'm concerned about them. But I'm more concerned about 20 percent to 30 percent of jobs in Kansas being lost.

[14:55:04]

RAJU: And so --

(CROSSTALK)

MARSHALL: This is a temporary -- this is a temporary thing. We have to understand the clock is going to roll out on us probably by Monday and we end up at the same place.

RAJU: Just to be clear, if there's an agreement to pass the vote to pass it by tomorrow night with the 60-vote threshold amendment, you'll object to that?

MARSHALL: That's where I am today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last part is important because what the Democrats want is a 60-vote threshold on his amendment because that means it wouldn't pass in the 50/50 Senate here. But he said he would object to that.

So if it's a procedural fight, it could lead to a procedural shutdown unless they cut a last-minute deal here.

Once again, we're seeing lawmakers going to the brink and potentially going over and causing a shutdown -- guys?

CAMEROTA: I'm so used to this 11th-hour stress that it's having a little less impact this time.

But we'll see, Manu Raju. You'll keep us posted on when we should start to panic. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: You say you've built up a tolerance to this?

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: It's like the boy who cried wolf. It happens time and time again, and you get a little more tolerant of it.

BLACKWELL: All right, the president has pitched his new strategy to combat the pandemic with the winter months. We'll have a look at that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)