Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Senate Averts Shutdown; Manchin Skeptical about Spending Bill; Russia Positions More Forces; Marty Walsh is Interviewed about the Jobs Numbers. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Zanona standing by now.

Melanie, is this about changing it, trimming it back a little bit, from Manchin and Sinema, or is this about pushing this off, killing it?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: All of the above. Well, no, they're not going to try to kill it, but they do want more time to consider this carefully. Joe Manchin is making clear that he wants serious changes made to the bill before it passes in the Senate. Among the concerns that he has are the paid family leave provisions, also the climate change provisions that include a methane fee. And also he has concerns generally about inflation and the cost of the bill, including some of the budgetary gimmicks.

And so, obviously, there's changes that need to be made. They also will have to get a brand-new cost estimate. And then whatever changes they make need to be approved by the House. So, clearly, the likelihood of this passing by Christmas is dwindling very quickly here on Capitol Hill.

Meanwhile, you also have Kyrsten Sinema, another key holdout, and she's also refusing to back this bill in a rare interview with our colleague Lauren Fox. So Democrats have a lot of work to do.

But they at least did clear one item off their plate, and that was avoiding a government shutdown by passing a short-term funding bill yesterday. So they'll have a little bit more breathing room here, but clearly not a lot of time to get things done before the holidays.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that qualifies as a gleaming victory on Capitol Hill these days, right, keeping the government doors open. Melanie Zanona.

ZANONA: Yes, the bar is very low. Yes.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss, Ron Brownstein, he's a senior CNN political analyst, senior editor at "The Atlantic." Ron, good to have you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, Build Back Better delayed once again by two familiar characters in all this, Sinema and Manchin.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean, big picture, one, I mean, is this thing going to survive eventually, and does it -- does it really help Democrats that much, given that folks don't seem that plugged in on it?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, look, the assumption has been all the way through that Manchin and Sinema, in the end, will agree to pass something along the lines of what we have seen. But, look, they have handled this in a way to impose maximum damage and to undercut the bill as much as possible give than in the end they are still likely to support it. I mean all the public has seen about this bill for month is the debate about whether it's too expensive, too big, going to contribute it inflation, even though most economists do not believe it will have that effect given its timeframe and the way that it's funded.

And all of that is not really being driven by Republican critics. It's being driven by Manchin and Sinema. So they have exacted a heavy price. Joe Manchin said months ago he didn't want to do it in 2021 and it looks like he is going to hold everybody else to his personal preference.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about the jobs numbers today because, yes, unemployment rate down to 4.2 percent, but, again, another miss on the forecast number of added jobs here.

Is that a problem for Joe Biden?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I mean, you know, Jim, as I'm sure you discussed already this morning, we've had substantial revisions in the last few months. And this number will likely be revised up.

It's a disappointing number, but I don't think job growth is going to be the economic problem that Joe Biden faces. Clearly inflation is much more front of mind for people. I mean, as you said, the unemployment rate is, you know, skidding down toward 4 percent or below in incoming months.

I mean the real issue is inflation, and when that recedes because there is a lot of underlying momentum in the economy. And, don't forget, they have bought a lot of job growth going down the road with both the infrastructure bill, and assuming Manchin lets them, the Build Back Better plan. They're estimated to create a combined 3 million jobs a year, 80 percent of which will not -- or more won't require a college degree, which will help wages -- get up wages for workers without advanced education who have been stagnant for decades.

SCIUTTO: Yes. BROWNSTEIN: So I don't think that is the issue. I think the issue is if and when inflation begins to recede, because that's what's front of mind, I think, for most folks.

SCIUTTO: OK. Question here, is this just a cyclical economic problem for Democrats or do they have a bigger problem? A lot of reporting about a Democratic pollster who did some focus groups in Virginia following Glenn Youngkin's win there and found in those focus groups that Democrats have a bigger issue here. Here one key finding, people think we're more focused -- speaking about Democrats -- on social issues than the economy and the economy is the number one issue right now. Are -- and that goes to your point about inflation. Are Democrats hearing that message? Are they adjusting as a result of that message?

BROWNSTEIN: Now, look -- yes. Yes, I think that is a very clear and present danger for Democrats. And it's very similar to what happened in 2009 and 2010 when Obama was caught in kind of the legislative Vietnam of passing the Affordable Care Act, much like Biden is kind of slogging through the big muddy of passing his Build Back Better plan, voters did not see the -- did not see -- did not believe the president was focused on their more immediate economic concerns.

I mean there are a lot of elements of the Build Back Better plan that will give them ammunition to say that they are eventually dealing with people's concerns about rising costs.

[09:35:03]

I mean it has significant measures to help people with childcare costs, prescription drug costs, limiting insulin, you know, payments, healthcare costs, the child tax credit will put money in people's pockets, but all of that is down the road. And right now voters don't see -- do not see a lot of action out of the White House on inflation concerns/

And so, yes, I think Democrats need to get past this above all so that they can kind of, you know, shift their focus and Manchin simply is not letting them do that.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see if they hear that message. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We have new reporting this morning on Russia's growing presence on Ukraine's borders, sparking more fears of a potential invasion. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:21]

SCIUTTO: We have new reporting this morning on Russia's growing military presence near Ukraine. Sources telling myself and colleagues that Russia has deployed even more forces along the Ukraine border in recent days, and now have all capabilities in place to support an invasion, including crucially supply lines from hospital units to fuel. U.S. intelligence indicates they could supply front line forces for seven to ten days, other support units for as long as a month.

I believe Russia can go when they want, Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley tells me. He sits on the House Intelligence Committee. Russia's capabilities would be equivalent to a modern day blitzkrieg. Sobering words.

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins me now. General Hertling, of course, commanded forces, U.S. Army Europe. He knows something about the Russia threat.

I wonder, General Hertling, your reaction to the steps that Russia is taking right now, all the capabilities in place, do you see an invasion as being likely?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Jim, they are certain -- the Russian federation and Putin personally is certainly playing with fire on this. Do I see an invasion? The likelihood of that I think is slight. I would give it maybe a one or a two chance in ten. But they are certainly preparing to conduct some type of operation. And the variety of things they could do to threaten the eastern European nations are expansive. We could go through them, but it would take a whole lot of time.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. has supplied lethal military assistance to Ukrainian forces. This includes things like tow (ph) missiles, which are designed to take out Russian tanks. But I hear that there's some impatience from, frankly, Democrats and Republicans on The Hill with the pace of that assistance.

In your view, has the U.S. given Ukrainians enough to help? They're not going to even the playing field. They're greatly outnumbered by Russia, outgunned. But to raise the stakes enough for Russia?

HERTLING: Yes, it will certainly contribute to Ukraine's defense. You know, the delivery of the javelin missiles, perhaps some anti-air defense or some air defense equipment could certainly help. But, remember, Jim, I -- the Ukrainian army is about 250,000 soldiers. What Russia has deployed is about 100,000, but they are much better equipped in terms of modern vehicles and modern equipment.

And this would be a conventional war. It would be horribly catastrophic for both nations, no matter what Russia did, in terms of either going -- pushing more forces into the Donbas (ph) region or trying to take more territory near the Black Sea. That's why I don't think an invasion would be their primary course of action because that would be met not only from Ukrainian resistance, but also Polish, Latvian, Lithuania, Estonia, because they know what it's like living -- those countries know what it's like living under a Russian control.

SCIUTTO: Yes. There is a school of thought, you will hear from some, that say, well, listen, let's back off, the west, the U.S. should make assurances to Putin and Russia. For instance, to say, Ukraine will not become a member of NATO, perhaps agree to pull back some U.S. and NATO military assistance to Ukraine. Do you believe that Putin can be placated, satisfied with concessions

like that?

HERTLING: No, because that's exactly what he wants. And, plus, when you're talking about the U.S. or others to include member states of NATO, getting involved in what Ukraine will or will not do, we got to remember, this is a sovereign nation and they have been fighting the Russians for almost seven years. They have grown in terms of their capability. They have eliminated much of the corruption in the government, and they see themselves as a member of the league of nations. So for the U.S. and others to be making deals with Russia behind their back would not be a good thing.

Unfortunately, we have done that before with other countries, but it doesn't quite live up to our values of understanding that Ukraine is sovereign and can make their own decisions. And what I'd say is, too, Ukraine has been desirous of being part of NATO for almost 20 years. You know, in 1994, they were the first to join NATO's partnership for peace. In '97, NATO and Ukraine established a partnership that was really key for developing this relationship. And all of those things are important to Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

[09:45:01]

HERTLING: There's a reason people don't want to be under the rule of Russia. And they are certainly one of those nations.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And they gave up their nuclear weapons after the fall of the Soviet Union too.

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, always good to have you on.

SCIUTTO: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: The U.S. economy added 210,000 jobs last month. Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, he'll join me next to break down those numbers. They were below forecast.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In the next hour, President Biden will speak live addressing the November jobs report. The economy added 210,000 jobs last month. That is less than half the number forecast by economists.

[09:50:05]

There are some bright spots. The unemployment rate slipped to 4.2 percent. That is a new pandemic-era low. The economy, however, still down 3.9 million jobs from its pre-pandemic levels.

Joining me now to discuss, Labor Secretary Marty Walsh.

Secretary, thanks for taking the time this morning.

MARTY WALSH, LABOR SECRETARY: Thanks, Jim. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, I mean, listen, economic forecasters who probably just as bad a record recently as political pollsters because the forecasts were so off here, but that's a significant -- less than half of what was forecast. What happened here?

WALSH: Well, I've certainly learned to, unfortunately, not follow the forecasts. I think I've done this report now, this is my ninth time as the secretary of labor. And every time has pretty much been -- the forecasts has been higher than the number and a couple times the other way around.

You know, when you -- we have to look at this as a whole plan, since President Biden has taken office, the economy is getting stronger and stronger and stronger every day. We're seeing nearly 6 million people return to the workforce. We've seen a full two points drop off the unemployment number. We're seeing opportunities that people haven't had in forever, quite honestly, in the ability to go back to work.

Unfortunately, we're still -- we still have a -- have a -- have a virus that -- to contend with.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WALSH: We still have concerns with childcare and other things. And I'm not going to sugar coat it, but I think that, you know, we're going to be looking at what the new normal is at some point in the future here probably in the next couple months when I'm on here.

SCIUTTO: OK. Our Christine Romans makes the point that this is not so much a jobs problem as a worker problem and that there's a mismatch here, that many of the jobs offered are just not jobs that folks are willing to take. And that creates problems for businesses. You see that from restaurants, for instance. They can't hire the staff they need to stay open the hours that they need. What is the administration doing to bridge that gap?

WALSH: Well, I think that what we're doing with the Department of Labor, so we're working on job training, workforce development programs. And also I'm talking to employers around the country about creating better pathways into new jobs and what are the skills people need. I was just out in L.A. this week, earlier this week, and I toured the Port of L.A. and the Port of Long Beach and one of the big obstacles there is truck drivers and the lack of truck drivers and the lack of availability. And we really have to be intentional now.

When I look at this report and I look at the past bunch of reports, in the -- the sectors that we're having problems finding people, we really have to be really intentional about setting up job training programs and focusing and going out and finding these workers and helping them -- helping them (INAUDIBLE) pathways. Two examples, truck drivers and hospital care workers. We've seen drops in both of those, so we need to work on those. SCIUTTO: I want to ask you about vaccine mandates. As you know, the

administration has lost some court challenges just in the last week. You also had this last-minute attempt to tie defunding vaccine mandates to keeping the government open.

It was set to begin January 4th. As a practical matter, is the administration's vaccine mandate for employers of 100 or more workers, is it frozen now?

WALSH: Well, I mean we're waiting for the court to resolve it. The beauty is, it's not a -- it's not a mandate. It's a vaccine or testing procedure what we want to move forward here. And, at the end of the day, we want to make sure we keep people safe and healthy and allow the -- people to go back to the work -- and go back to their workplace and feeling safe. And that's the intention behind it.

SCIUTTO: On Build Back Better, I'm sure you heard Senators Manchin and Sinema expressed publicly that they may not be ready to go on this before Christmas. That had been the desire of Democratic leaders.

Realistically, has BBB been pushed now to 2022? And do you fear that it's at risk in general?

WALSH: No, I think we just have to continue to move forward. I think, you know, the infrastructure bill, we had the same conversation about that about two months ago that it might not happen, it might not happen, and it did. And I think that, you know, I feel good where we're headed with it. We just need to continue the conversations.

I would love to see the bill passed as soon as possible because there are some major investments in that bill in childcare, which I think is impacting the economy, people coming back to work, and also in job training, workforce development and pre-apprenticeships that I'd like to get these programs started now so in 2022 we can find -- get jobs for people.

SCIUTTO: OK, back to your home state of Massachusetts. There is news there. Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker announce that he will not seek a third term next year. A source tells CNN that you are considering a run. Are you?

WALSH: You know, I talked to the governor the other day. He told me that he wasn't going to run for re-election, and I wished him well. We worked very closely together in my time as mayor and also during the beginning of the pandemic.

You know, for this week I've been focused on making sure, in the Port of L.A., the Port of Long Beach, working today on numbers day. I haven't really thought much about that.

SCIUTTO: Have you ruled it out?

WALSH: You know, again, I'm focused --I'm focused right now at what I'm doing here at the Department of Labor at the current moment.

SCIUTTO: OK. We'll keep asking you. WALSH: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Secretary Marty Walsh, thanks for joining us this morning.

WALSH: (INAUDIBLE).

Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Just minutes from now, President Biden will speak on the latest jobs report. We're going to bring you those comments live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:59:33]

SCIUTTO: A very good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

Just minutes from now, President Biden will address the nation following the release of the November jobs report. The Labor Department reporting this morning that the U.S. added 210,000 jobs last month. That is below what experts had forecast.

That said, the unemployment rate fell to 4.2 percent, the lowest since the pandemic started.

[09:59:56]

Plus, the Biden administration announces when its stricter Covid-19 testing requirements for travelers internationally will begin as efforts ramp up to trace and follow the omicron variant.