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Mixed Jobs Report; Parents of Michigan School Shooting Suspect Charged. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Although I was told, since 2015, that has been a ringtone, but still a pretty brilliant moment...

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: So, she was a "Hamilton" fan from the beginning. OK. It's a great scene, if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Appreciate your time on INSIDE POLITICS today. Have a fantastic weekend. You can also listen to our podcast. Download INSIDE POLITICS wherever you get your podcast.

Busy news day, a lot of it sad.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We began with breaking news in the deadly school shooting out of Michigan, a prosecutor moments ago revealing the parents of the suspected gunman have been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

Charges like this against parents after a school shooting extremely rare. Their 15-year-old son is accused of killing these four students and wounding seven others at Oxford High School earlier this week. The alleged shooter has been charged as an adult, one terrorism charge and four murder charges, among others. He faces life in prison if convicted. He has pleaded not guilty.

Here's what we just learned. The prosecutor says the gunman was with his father when the gun used in the shooting was purchased four days before the carnage. His mother posted on social media, calling the gun a Christmas present for her son.

Then, on the day of the shooting, the parents were called to a meeting with their son at the school hours before the rampage, after teachers reported a disturbing drawing. The prosecutor says the parents failed to ask their son if he had the gun or to check his backpack. And they resisted having their son leave school. Instead, he was sent back to class.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is standing by, where this press conference just wrapped up.

And, Shimon, tell us more about this decision and a details we learned from the prosecutor.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, this was not something that we normally hear, right, that the prosecutor charges the parents or family members in relation to a school shooting or any mass shooting.

But the evidence here that the prosecutors laid out laid out is so overwhelming when you when you think about it and when you look at it. And everything that they have gathered, when you hear about text messages that the mother, the prosecutor says, was sending to the son after a teacher realized that he was searching for ammunition on his cell phone in class, and she says to him: "LOL. I'm not mad." You just have to learn how not to get caught, basically.

These are the things that prosecutors have been looking at for days, the idea that the family, they say, bought this weapon for him. He was present at the gun shop when they bought the weapon for him. And also striking was that prosecutors say that they have some evidence that something deeper was going on with this individual far before the shooting.

And then she talked about all of the different evidence and all of the different information that they have gathered. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN MCDONALD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN, PROSECUTOR: Subsequent to the purchase of that weapon, one of Jennifer Crumbley's social media posts on about 11/27/21 read -- quote -- "Mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present" -- end quote.

On November 21, 21, a teacher at the Oxford High School observed Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition on his cell phone during class and reported the same to school officials. Jennifer Crumbley was contacted via voice-mail by school personnel regarding that son's inappropriate Internet search.

School personnel indicate they followed that voice-mail up with an e- mail, but received no response from either parents. Thereafter, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son on that day, stating -- quote -- "LOL. I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught" -- end quote.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PROKUPECZ: And then, on the day of the shooting, also a text message from the mother to the son, saying -- quote -- "Ethan, don't do it," perhaps hours after they left the school, knowing that he perhaps may have had the weapon in his bag. So all of this obviously very chilling, because when you also listen,

Ana, to what the school could have done, and the issue that the prosecutor says, yes, she is angry over it. But it's not only her. It's people in this community. And we have been here all week talking to law enforcement officials, sheriff's deputies who ran into the school when the word got out that shots were fired and what they saw, and the anger that they have towards the school for not doing more.

It's just chilling when you really take a listen to everything that went on here and what could have been done possibly to prevent so much of this.

CABRERA: There were so many red flags, so many, many things that people could have done.

Thank you, Shimon Prokupecz.

Let's discuss now with Asha Rangappa, former FBI special agent and lecturer at Yale University, and Andrew McCabe, former deputy director of the FBI.

Thank you both for being here.

Andrew, first, your reaction to these charges against the parents, four counts each of involuntary manslaughter.

[13:05:04]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Ana, I was stunned when I heard that they were leaning in that direction, because it's so exceedingly rare.

In the few states that have laws that address this sort of thing, really, no one ever gets prosecuted. But listening to the details that came out in the press conference is absolutely stunning.

The prosecutor has literally a mountain of evidence upon which to proceed with these very serious charges of essentially criminally reckless homicide. And I think probably what we heard in the press conference is only a -- is just a sample of what they have so far. Who knows what will come out when witnesses start testifying at an upcoming trial, if there is one.

It's incredible. And it's absolutely called for, and I think it may be is just the sort of thing that we need to attract attention to this epidemic of school violence.

CABRERA: I mean, Asha, the prosecutor previously called this beyond negligence.

What would you call it?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I think that this is why they're charging involuntary manslaughter.

So Michigan has a couple of laws. They are misdemeanors. One is criminal penalties for allowing minors to have access to a weapon. Another is that allowing a child or being in custody of a child who uses a gun in a school zone when they knew that crime was about to occur or they aided conduct in allowing it to occur.

But, again, those are misdemeanors. And so by charging involuntary manslaughter, they're allowed to use that underlying unlawful activity or even negligent behavior to hold the parents culpable. And I think it's really important in this case, because Michigan doesn't have red flag laws.

So, law enforcement is really dependent on parents who become aware of problematic behavior taking action or reporting it to the authorities. And, here, we see a very nonchalant attitude towards the troubling red flags that were being presented to them by the school administrators.

CABRERA: In fact, the mom was texting with her son at one point, saying, you just shouldn't get caught. I'm paraphrasing there.

Let's listen to more from the prosecutor about the parents actions on the day of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDONALD: At the meeting, James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours.

Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located, and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him.

James and Jennifer Crumbley resisted the idea of then leaving the school at that time, of their son leaving the school at that time. Instead, James and Jennifer Crumbley left the high school without their son.

He was returned to the classroom. When the news of the active shooter at Oxford High School had been made public, Jennifer Crumbley texted to her son at 11:22: -- I'm sorry -- at 1:22 p.m. -- quote -- "Ethan, don't do it" -- end quote.

At 1:37 p.m., James Crumbley called 911, reporting that a gun was missing from his house, and he believed his son may be the shooter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Andrew, previously, the sheriff told us that the parents weren't talking with him, were not helping in this investigation. I guess we now know why.

Given all of what we just learned, how strong is the case against the parents? How likely is a conviction?

MCCABE: Well, you're absolutely right. Now we have a better insight as to why they were so protective of their son after his arrest. But this is an unprecedented prosecution. And proving criminally negligent or reckless homicide is tough under any circumstances. That said, I can't think of or imagine a better perfect storm collection of facts and evidence to potentially hold these parents responsible.

So, I think it's -- I think it's a real possibility that this prosecution could be successful. I think the most damning pieces of evidence are her text messages, the one, as you mentioned, LOLing the idea of him making the searches for ammunition, essentially giving him the -- her implicit authorization that that's an OK thing to do, and you should hide it from your teachers.

And the second, her immediate reaction when she hears there's a shooting at the school is, she texts him and says, "Don't do it."

So she wasn't even thinking like, oh, no, maybe my son could be a victim. She was already in the mind-set of like, yes, of course it's him. I think it's very damning.

CABRERA: Yes, that time when he was caught searching for ammunition was just the day before the shooting. And that's when the mom had texted him: I'm not mad at you. You just have to learn not to get caught.

[13:10:07]

MCCABE: That's right.

CABRERA: That one just really stuck with me to think about that attitude around all of this.

But I do want to play one more sound bite.

But before I do that, Andrew, real quick, a follow. Could the parents face federal charges?

MCCABE: Gosh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDONALD: A teacher at the Oxford high school observed Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition his cell phone during class and reported the same to school officials.

On November 30, '21, the morning of the shooting, the next day, Ethan Crumbley's teacher came upon a note on Ethan's deaths which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.

The note contained the following, a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words -- quote -- "The thoughts won't stop. Help me" -- end quote.

In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet -- quote -- "Blood everywhere" -- end quote. Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person

who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji.

Further down the drawing are the words -- quote -- "My life is useless" -- end quote. And to the right of that are the words -- quote -- "The world is dead" -- end quote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: OK, we played that sound before you got a chance to answer your last question. I will come back to you, Andrew. I will give you another second to think about federal charges.

And I will direct this one to Asha, after listening to that sound, those details.

We know two separate teachers now in two different classrooms were concerned enough to raise the red flag to officials, including on the day of the shooting, when that disturbing drawing was found. And now we know what was in that drawing. Should police have been called? And could the school be liable in some way, Asha?

RANGAPPA: I'm not sure about liability. I don't think there's any criminal liability. There's possibly civil liability.

But, as I mentioned before, Ana, Michigan doesn't have red flag laws, which red flag laws allow for law enforcement to take action when they are notified that someone might be about to engage in violent behavior using a firearm, for example, by removing a firearm from a home.

I think the teachers and administrators did exactly what they were supposed to do here, which was to raise the flag, go to the parents, and show the parents and expect them to take action.

It's possible that the school could have, for example, expelled the student from the school. But that is a very high bar. And I'm not sure what these school's policies are there.

I just want to also add that this child has been charged with terrorism, which I think is also unusual. And we don't usually see that in school shooting cases. And it illustrates the difficulty with these cases that, on the one hand, you don't want to treat it just like any ordinary homicide or crime.

But, on the other hand, the wording of terrorism statutes are a little bit clunky. And it's this -- the shooting doesn't necessarily fit exactly into the wording of the Michigan statute, which is an intent to intimidate or coerce a government unit.

So it'll be interesting to see how the prosecution succeeds on that front and whether that might be replicated in other instances like this.

CABRERA: OK. And, Andy, given that the prosecutor in this case was asked about

something related to somebody underage owning a firearm, even though it was the dad who purchased it, but because of this idea that it was some kind of Christmas present for the son, could the parents face any federal charges?

MCCABE: I think it's possible, but it's highly unlikely.

And I have had about a half-a-dozen texts from my legal adviser friends around the country in the last few seconds, and that seems to be the consensus.

Any charges related to like a straw purchase of the firearm would certainly be far less serious than what the parents are already facing on the negligent homicide charges and manslaughter charges. So, if the homicide charges fall apart and the case goes nowhere, you might see the feds taking a second look at what they can do in the alternative, but I find that to be unlikely, at best.

CABRERA: Andrew McCabe and Asha Rangappa, thank you both so much for being there for us and your expertise.

The November jobs report delivering a mixed bag this morning, job growth falling very short of expectations, but the jobless rate still dropped to 4.2 percent. We will discuss that.

Plus, Alec Baldwin revealing new details on how the gun he held fired the live round that killed the cinematographer on the "Rust" movie set. And he still claims he is not responsible for it.

And what health officials are learning from the rapid spread of the new COVID Omicron variant in South Africa.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:19:16]

The reviews are mixed, the economy adding only 210,000 jobs last month. And that number is way below what economists expected. But look at that other number there, the unemployment rate. It is now 4.2 percent. And that number is welcome news.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us.

Now, Arlette, President Biden spoke about these numbers this morning at the White House. And no surprise here, he focused on that second number, the silver lining.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana.

Instead of zeroing in on that lower-than-expected jobs report, the president really focused on touting the economic recovery that this administration has seen as a whole, pointing to that 4.2 percent unemployment rate.

He also talked about the number of jobs added since he took office, six million jobs in the first full 10 months that President Biden has been here at the White House.

[13:20:05]

But, still, the president was acknowledging the economic anxieties that so many Americans are feeling right now with COVID-19 and the economy. The White House considers the two of those really tied together towards recovery.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're looking at the sharpest one-year decline in unemployment ever. Simply put, America -- America is back to work. And our jobs recovery is going very strong.

But I also know that despite this progress, families are anxious. They're anxious about COVID.

Every day, my team and I are working to deliver consistent, determined, focused action to overcome the challenges we still face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, as you heard right there, President Biden's voice was a little hoarse and deeper than usual. And he was asked by reporters immediately finishing his remarks about how he was feeling. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Your voice sounds a little different. Are you OK?

BIDEN: I'm OK. I have a test every day to see -- a COVID test. I -- they check me for all the strains.

What I have is a one-and-a-half-year-old grandson who had a cold, who likes to kiss his pop.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: And he'd been kissing my -- anyway, so -- but it's just a cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, the president spent that Thanksgiving holiday with his grandson, baby Beau Biden, in Nantucket just last week. So that might have been where some of those interactions happened. And we will see what happens going on with the president's health in the coming days -- Ana.

CABRERA: Oh, 'tis the season of cold and flu and all kinds of viruses.

Arlette Saenz, thank you. I want to bring in Justin Wolfers now, professor of economics and

public policy at the University of Michigan.

Good to see you, Justin.

Let's sum up this jobs report here, 210,000 jobs added, 4.2 percent unemployment rate. That's only half of what economists have predicted in terms of jobs added, but that unemployment rate dropped to the lowest level since March of 2020. So how do you square these two pieces of news?

And what does it tell you about where we are in the recovery?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Well, it's a step in the right direction, but it's not a big enough step.

Some of the viewers may be confused how we could get both good news, that is, unemployment fell sharply, and bad news that employment barely grew on the same day. And that's because these statistics come from different surveys, and different surveys -- no survey is ever fully accurate.

So probably a bit of -- it would be premature to celebrate based on the unemployment number. Economists tend to rely a little more on what's going on with employment, and those numbers really was somewhat disappointing.

CABRERA: Previous months, jobs added were revised hire, we have seen. Do you expect the same to happen here?

WOLFERS: I think that's very likely.

So there's a -- the Bureau of Labor Statistics gathers these numbers by surveying thousands and thousands of businesses. And the reality is that they don't always get around to responding to those surveys in time. And that's why those numbers then get adjusted next month and the month after that.

What we have seen throughout 2021 is that the early surveys have tended to be a little more pessimistic than the latest surveys, suggesting that there's a reasonable chance this will get revised up enough, not enough to turn moderate news into great news, but perhaps turning it into moderately better news.

CABRERA: America does keep adding jobs. But we're still not back to normal. We're down more than 3.5 million jobs compared to February of 2020, pre-pandemic.

But President Biden says, simply put, Americans back to work and our jobs recovery is going very strong. Is that how you would characterize it?

WOLFERS: I think there's two very different stories that are going on out there right now.

One, we are 3.5 -- as you said, 3.5 million jobs below where we were at the start of the pandemic. Normally, an economy creates jobs. So, if we kept going at the previous trend, we'd have five or maybe six million more jobs than we currently do. So the economy definitely hasn't healed.

The flip side, though, is the unemployment rate is quite low. And if you ask workers, they say that jobs are really plentiful. A large part of what's happening there is, a lot of workers are remaining on the sidelines. They don't have jobs, but they're not ready to get back to work right now.

Maybe it's child care concerns or older workers who are worried about their health. A lot of people, I think, are just waiting until the economy and Life gets back to normal, and then they're going to be back looking for work.

And the problem right now is, we don't have enough jobs for those people if and when they do come back.

CABRERA: And the other problem is, we're not through the pandemic.

How concerned are you about the Omicron variant and how it could impact the economy, supply chains, et cetera?

WOLFERS: I think the one thing we have learned over the last two years is that the single most important indicator for the future of the economy is, it's not monetary policy, and it's not fiscal policy. It's what's going on with COVID.

And what was disappointing about this month's job numbers is, they came at a point where it looked like our COVID numbers were falling and people maybe were getting willing to get back to work and back to normal.

[13:25:00]

Things have only gotten worse since then. We have seen COVID cases rise a little over the past few weeks. And none of us really know what Omicron is going to do, except we do know for sure it's not good news. So there's a lot of uncertainty right now. And it could only be worse than what we currently expect.

CABRERA: OK. Well, we will see where it goes. And we will keep talking.

Thanks so much, Professor Justin Wolfers. Great to have you with us on this Friday.

And, by the way, I like your new glasses. I saw you tweet about that earlier.

(LAUGHTER)

CABRERA: Holiday red, good choice for the time of year.

All right, in his first television interview since the deadly shooting on his film set "Rust," Alec Baldwin says he doesn't feel guilty for the accident on the set of his film because he's not the one responsible. More from the actor next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: In his first TV interview since the deadly shooting on the set of his movie "Rust," actor Alec Baldwin describes the moment the gun he was holding fired a fatal shot, killing the film's cinematographer.

CNN's Lucy Kafanov has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: And I would go to any lengths to undo what happened.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alec Baldwin denying he's at fault in the death of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was shot and killed on the "Rust" movie set

[13:30:00]