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Alec Baldwin Says He's Not Responsible for "Rust" Shooting; South Africa Seeing Spike in COVID Cases Amid Omicron Variant; Nonprofit Rescues 9-Year-Old Afghan Girl Sold into Marriage. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired December 03, 2021 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I would go to any lengths to undo what happened.
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Alec Baldwin denying he's at fault in the death of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was shot and killed on the "Rust" movie set in late October.
BALDWIN: Well, the trigger pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: So, you never pulled the trigger?
BALDWIN: No, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger at them, never. That was the training that I had. You don't point the gun at somebody and pull the trigger.
KAFANOV: The actor speaking out for the first time in an interview with ABC News, detailing what Baldwin says happened in the moments prior to the fatal shooting.
BALDWIN: I was told I was handed an empty gun. I don't know if they were cosmetic rounds. There was nothing with a charge at all, a flash round, nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint?
The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me until probably 45 minutes to an hour later.
KAFANOV: The armorer is responsible for handling guns on set. And Baldwin says it's up to that person to make sure they're safe for use.
BALDWIN: There is one person that is supposed to make sure what is in the gun is right and what's wrong is not in the gun. One person has that responsibility to maintain the gun. And --
STEPHANOPOULOS: What is the actor's responsibility?
BALDWIN: I guess that's a tough question, because the actor's responsibility going this day forward is very different than it was the day before that.
KAFANOV: An investigation is under way, working to determine how live rounds made it on set.
No one has been charged with a crime in connection with the shooting. And Baldwin believes he's in the clear.
BALDWIN: I've been told by people who are in the know in terms of even inside the state that it's highly unlikely I would be charged with anything criminally.
KAFANOV: Baldwin says the focus should be on Hutchins and Director Joel Souza, who was injured.
BALDWIN: I don't want to sound like I'm a victim. I mean, again, we have two clear victims here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is this the worst thing that has ever happened to you?
BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. Yes. Because I think back and I think of, what could I have done?
KAFANOV: When asked if he feels guilt for the fatal incident that ended the cinematographer's life, Baldwin giving this response.
BALDWIN: No, no. I feel that there is -- I feel that -- someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is but I know it's not me.
I mean, honest to God, if I felt that I was responsible, I might have killed myself if I thought I was responsible. And I don't say that lightly.
KAFANOV: But earlier in the interview, the actor describes how the aftermath of the tragedy is deeply affecting him mentally.
BALDWIN: And I haven't slept for weeks. I have really been struggling physically. I'm exhausted from this because I have got to try to be there for my kids. And my family is all I have. I mean, honest to God, I couldn't give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about my career anymore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Lucy Kafanov reporting there.
And we should note, in an interview with NBC News, lawyers for the film's armorer say she loaded the gun with what she thought were dummy rounds before Baldwin used it on set.
Let's discuss with CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.
Joey, first, I just wonder, what stood out to you the most during that interview?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know a number of things.
Ana, good to be with you. You could look to his comportment, his demeanor, his sincerity. At the
same time, you could focus on the fact that he described specifically how the gun went off.
Not really admitting he pulled the trigger, saying he did not, but giving the indication he had not the trigger but at least the hammer portion and describing that.
So I was surprised that he would be that descriptive or his lawyers would allow him to be so descriptive on such a definitive issue.
Clearly, he's been moved by this. I think a number of people have been moved by this.
And I think he had a public relations imperative to get out in front of it. Whether it was the right legal move, I would say it was not.
CABRERA: Do you think it helped or hurt the actor in terms of that legal perspective? Would you have advised him to speak?
JACKSON: Ana, my basic position is that no one is speaking with anyone because only harm shall come. Why? You have a parallel investigation, one involving the sheriff that relates to criminality.
Many people believing, not only if you act intentionally can you be held responsible for something. That's not so. IN the event you act in such a careless fashion, it could rise to criminality.
So while there's a pending investigation, where they want to know, the investigators, what specifically you did with that gun, how you handled it. Did you evaluate and assess it, even though you thought it was a cold gun, meaning no bullet? And was that proper?
In addition, you have these civil lawsuits that relate to money that are there. You will be deposed, not in front of a judge but another lawyer asks you questions under oath with regard to your activities. Now you have prior statements with respect to what you did.
It's never a good idea, legally, to speak. I understand the public relations portion. He wants the world to know how upset he feels. I'm sure he does feel upset. But it's always best not to say a word. It only comes back to harm you.
[13:35:07]
No one says the same things twice under different questioning at different times.
CABRERA: In fact, let's play the part of the interview in which you alluded when he described handling the gun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I said to her, now in this scene, I'm going to cock the gun. I said, do you want to see that? She said yes. So I take the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm not going to pull the trigger. And I said, just tilt it down, hold it down a little bit like that.
And I cock the gun. I say, can you see that, can you see that, can you see that? She says -- and I let go of the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Again, Joey, he says he didn't pull the trigger. He says the gun went off after he let go of the hammer. Legally, does it matter?
JACKSON: See, I think the core issue is the handling of the weapon. And I think lawyers will remind everyone of that. It's not whether or not you pulled the trigger. And I think it's a credibility question as to whether he did or he didn't.
The issue is, did you handle it in the appropriate way? Should you have been doing anything as it relates to the hammer or any aspect of that gun? Should you have evaluated it yourself prior to using it, et cetera?
So to get to the actual measure of how you use the gun, for me, it's problematic because that's the core issue in any criminal investigation and any parallel civil investigation. Did you exercise due caution? Did you act reasonably?
I think that's what investigators are looking at in all aspects of the case.
CABRERA: Joey Jackson, great to have you here. Thank you.
JACKSON: Thank you, Ana.
CABRERA: South Africa reporting a dramatic surge in cases since the Omicron variant was detected there last week. Can we expect the same to happen here in the U.S. now that the variant has been detected in multiple states? We'll ask an infectious disease expert, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:40:44]
CABRERA: Health officials in South Africa say they are seeing a steep rise in infections since the Omicron variant was first detected there last week.
Take a look. South Africa's cases, since the start of the pandemic here, three distinct waves, a fourth, it seems, just beginning to swell.
If you zoom in on the recent data, you can see the sudden surge in new cases. They're up 300 percent in the last seven days, an indication that this new variant may be highly transmissible.
As for whether Omicron causes more mild disease? A top official with the World Health Organization says, right now, the majority of cases have been mild, at least so far. But scientists do warn it's simply too soon to say whether that will hold since there's a lag between diagnosis and severe disease progression.
Joining us now is Dr. William Schaffner, professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.
It's good to see you, Dr. Schaffner.
What does this data that we have at this point out of South Africa tell you?
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, Ana, what it tells me is exactly what you've been saying, this looks to be a very, very contagious variant, as contagious and maybe even more contagious than Delta.
Which suggests that, once in the United States, it's going to spread, as it is already spreading in many other countries.
That data regarding severity is of great interest. We don't have enough information. There may be a slight ray of sunshine in that a lot of the cases so far reported have, indeed, been mild.
But as you said, the data are not final yet. We're going to have to have some patience and wait. But I hope that holds up. Mild? I like that.
CABRERA: It's been a week, so when would be the earliest that we might have some solid answers, do you think?
SCHAFFNER: Well, I think we could see clinicians, particularly in South Africa, where they have many cases, begin to report their case series.
And then, of course, the epidemiologist doing their population-based studies. Those take longer. They're more definitive. And that will come three weeks, four weeks later.
But I'll take case series from clinicians any time. I really like to hear about those.
CABRERA: OK. Scientists say, in parts of South Africa, this Omicron variant has taken over Delta as the dominant strain.
But we know South Africa and the U.S. have very different vaccination rates, right? And 83 percent of adults in the U.S. have received at least one dose, talking about adults, compared to 42 percent of adults in South Africa.
Is that an important distinction in terms of what impact Omicron could have here in the U.S.?
SCHAFFNER: Sure. Because we think -- we don't know definitively, there are lots of don't know, sorry about that. But we think that the vaccine-induced immunity we get, the protection, will provide some protection at the very least against this Omicron strain. That could make it much more milder in its impact here in the United States.
It certainly encourages everyone to get their booster if they're eligible. If they haven't gotten the first dose, they should. Bring in the children, 5 and older. We need lots more people to be vaccinated.
We've got vaccine in the refrigerator where it can't prevent disease. It has to go into arms.
CABRERA: As a mom, I'm smiling to have the extra layer of protection for my kids.
This morning, President Biden downplayed the need to mandate vaccines for domestic travel, saying the measures that he's now putting in place, like free at-home testing, an increase in vaccination sites, are sufficient.
Do you agree?
SCHAFFNER: Well, good for him. And I certainly hope he's correct.
But I have to admit, we've been imploring, educating, cajoling, attracting people into being vaccinated. And in some parts of the country, my own state of Tennessee included, we're still very under vaccinated.
[13:45:03]
You know, in this war against the virus, we've been doing it with a volunteer army. The volunteers who come forward and roll up their sleeves.
I think it's time for a draft. Uncle Sam needs you. Come in. You're obliged to roll up your sleeve in order to get on a plane or participate in this or other activity.
My grandchildren are both in college. Can't go to school unless you're vaccinated.
CABRERA: Dr. Schaffner, thanks for all you do. I so appreciate your dedication and the energy that you bring to educating all of us. I really appreciate it.
SCHAFFNER: Thank you.
CABRERA: Remember this story that caused such outrage around the world, such, you know, disheartening feelings? A 9-year-old Afghan girl sold into marriage for $2,000.
CNN was granted exclusive access to film that final sale and we now have an update on her case. You don't want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:49:58]
CABRERA: We have a huge update to a disturbing story that triggered an international outcry. Last month, CNN brought you exclusive reporting about child marriage in Afghanistan.
Many of you were especially disturbed by the case of 9-year-old Parwana, who was sold into marriage to a 55-year-old man for about $2,000.
CNN was granted rare permission to document the final sale and hand over.
Well, following our story, a nonprofit group intervened and rescued Parwana.
CNN's Anna Coren has this exclusive report.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(SINGING)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An Iranian love song plays from a cassette as a driver navigates his way through the snow-dusted Leman (ph) Valley in northwestern Afghanistan.
In the back of the station wagon is a mother and her six children, who have just left behind a life of constant struggle and hardship, all they've ever known.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
COREN: Among them, 9-year-old Parwana.
Our cameraman, Sadiki (ph) asks her how she's feeling.
"I'm so happy," she says, with a beaming smile.
CNN met Parwana, dressed in pink, in an internally displaced camp in Badghis Province back in October. Her father claimed he was selling her to feed the rest of the family as a humanitarian crisis grips the country.
He'd already sold his 12-year-old into marriage, and told CNN that unless his situation improved, he would have to sell his four remaining daughters, as well, including the youngest, just 2.
"If I didn't have these daughters to sell," he asks, "what should I do?"
Parwana's buyer, who lived in a nearby village, confirmed he was taking the 9-year-old as his second wife.
QORBAN, BUYER OF PARWANA (through translator): I'm 55 years old. I have a wife with four daughters and a son. I bought her for myself. I will wait until she becomes older. COREN: CNN was granted rare access to film the final payment and hand
over. The buyer asked for it to take place at a house in his village, and not the camp, for security reasons.
He paid a total of 200,000 Afghanis, just over 2,000 U.S. dollars, for Parwana in land, sheep, and cash.
"This is your bride. Please take care of her," says Parwana's father.
"Of course I will take care of her," replies the man.
(CROSSTALK)
COREN: As he drags her away, she whimpers.
QORBAN: (Speaking foreign language)
COREN: Moments later, she digs her heels into the dirt, refusing to go. But it's hopeless.
CNN's story caused an outcry.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And now a distressing story out of Afghanistan, showing the harsh --
COREN: The network was inundated with offers of help from the public aid organizations and NGOs wanting to assist Parwana and the other girls featured in our story.
The U.S.-based charity, "Too Young to Wed," took the lead. Its founding executive director, Stephanie Sinclair, has been working to end child marriage and help vulnerable girls around the world for almost 20 years.
She says the perfect storm is brewing in Afghanistan, and it's the girls that are suffering.
STEPHANIE SINCLAIR, FOUNDING EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TOO YOUNG TO WED: I know these stories are difficult to watch, and they're difficult to do. And they bring out a lot of concern.
But at the same time, we need to keep people understanding that this is happening. We need to keep ringing the alarm bells. Understand, these are real girls and real lives, and they can be changed.
COREN: Within Badghis province, there was widespread backlash towards Parwana's father and the buyer after our story went to air, with claims they brought shame on the community.
Even the Taliban told CNN the practice is forbidden.
MAWLAWI BAZ MOHAMMAD SARWARY, BADGHIS INFORMATION AND CULTURE DIRECTORATE (through translator): I request everyone not to sell their children. Child marriage is not a good thing, and we condemn it.
COREN: Women's rights activist and U.S. citizen, Mahbouba Seraj, who chose to stay in Kabul after the Taliban swept to power in August to run her women's shelter, says Parwana's case is just the tip of the iceberg.
MAHBOUBA SERAJ, AFGHAN WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST: There is a lot of misery. There is a lot of mistreatment. There is a lot of abuse is involved in these things. And it will keep on happening, with the hunger, with the winter, with poverty.
COREN: As a result of the controversy caused by the story and intervention from the charity, Parwana was allowed to return home after almost two weeks with the buyer's family.
"Since Parwana has been rescued, I'm very happy for that," says Parwana's father.
He admitted to CNN that, under duress from the community and some local media outlets, he changed his story out of embarrassment for what he had done and apologized.
The buyer is unreachable for comment, but the debt is still outstanding.
"Too Young to Wed" then organized to get Parwana, her mother and siblings removed from the camp with the father's permission.
[13:55:08]
Their four-hour journey to neighboring Herat Province was broken up with some childhood fun.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
COREN: -- before arriving at the motel.
For children who've only ever lived in a tent, the novelty of being warm, fed, and safe wasn't wearing off.
(CROSSTALK)
COREN: "They rescued me. They've given me a new life," says Parwana. "I thank the charity for helping me."
A few days later, they moved into the safe house. Parwana's mother, 27-year-old Ressagu (ph), has never lived in a house. She was sold into marriage at 13 and has since had seven children, six of whom were girls.
Most days in the camp, she would beg for food, and often her family would go to sleep hungry. Now all she wants is to give her children a better life.
"I have a dream, a wish they go to school and start an education," she says. "I have a lot of wishes for them."
"Too Young to Wed" has already begun distributing aid to Parwana's impoverished camp, among others. While the small charity is prepared to bridge the gap, they're calling on the large aid organizations to step up.
SINCLAIR: These are communities that have relied on international aid for the last 20 years. And so, with a lot of that aid stopping, these people didn't stop needing support. We can't let them pay the price. Because, ultimately, girls always pay the biggest price.
COREN: I speak to Parwana on Zoom through my colleague, Basir (ph).
(on camera): Hello, Parwana. I'm Anna.
PARWANA: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASIR (ph): How are you? How are you feeling?
COREN: I'm very good, thank you.
How are you?
PARWANA: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASIR (ph): I'm fine.
PARWANA: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASIR (ph): I'm so happy.
PARWANA: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASIR (ph): I'm safe. I'm rescued.
COREN (voice-over): Then she asks, "When are you sending me to school?"
PARWANA: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
COREN: She wants to study and become a doctor or a teacher.
But fairytale endings are few and far between for girls in Afghanistan, even more so now than ever.
Anna Coren, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: God bless Parwana and her family and all of the other girls in her situation.
Thank you for joining us today. I'll see you back here on Monday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. A reminder, you can always join me on Twitter, @Ana Cabrera.
The news continues next with Alisyn and Victor.
Have a wonderful weekend.
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