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Interview With CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky; Mixed Jobs Report; Parents of Michigan School Shooting Suspect Charged. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:23]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Well, thank you for being with us. Welcome to NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

The parents of the suspect in Tuesday's deadly school shooting in Michigan now face charges themselves. James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the four students their son allegedly killed on Tuesday.

Prosecutor Karen McDonald detailed how the parents purchased the handgun for their 15-year-old son for Christmas, and how they had been alerted to his alarming behavior at school.

BLACKWELL: McDonald also says that, the day before the shooting, a teacher spotted the suspect searching for ammunition on his cell phone. The school left his parents a voice-mail, but the call was not returned.

And, later, the prosecutor said that Jennifer Crumbley sent a text to her son about the incident. And she wrote this: "LOL. I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."

The prosecutor said there were more warning signs the morning of that shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN MCDONALD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN, PROSECUTOR: On November 30, '21, the morning of the shooting, the next day, Ethan Crumbley's teacher came upon a note on Ethan's deaths which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her cell phone.

The note contained the following, a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words -- quote -- "The thoughts won't stop. Help me" -- end quote.

In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet -- quote -- "Blood everywhere" -- end quote. Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person

who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. Below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji.

Further down the drawing are the words -- quote -- "My life is useless" -- end quote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: James and Jennifer Crumbley were immediately summoned to the school, and their son was removed from class. And what the prosecutor describes next is key to why she charged them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDONALD: At the meeting, James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours.

Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located, and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him.

James and Jennifer Crumbley resisted the idea of then leaving the school at that time, of their son leaving the school at that time. Instead, James and Jennifer Crumbley left the high school without their son.

He was returned to the classroom. When the news of the active shooter at Oxford High School had been made public, Jennifer Crumbley texted to her son at 11:22: -- I'm sorry -- at 1:22 p.m. -- quote -- "Ethan, don't do it."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is following all of these developments for us.

Shimon, you can just hear how angry and frustrated that prosecutor was with the parents' behavior.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that anger that she felt and has been speaking, that -- spoke about, finally spoke about, think about this.

For days, I have been on the ground here. I have been asking questions about this information. They had refused to confirm it. They had refused to make it public. And she -- that anger that she speaks about is also the anger that many of the people in this community feel against the school.

And the sheriff's deputies who ran into that school to save people's lives, and then saw the dead bodies, that's the anger they feel as well because they know and they believe that the school could have done more. So, today, obviously, it was a lot about the parents and the

prosecutor working through the week here saying that they had information, and they were working on this information about potentially bringing charges against the parents. And so, finally, they did that. We have the four counts of involuntary manslaughter, and the prosecutor really describing everything that they have found in the week leading up to filing these charges.

But then, also, she talked about responsible gun ownership and why this case was so important to bring. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCDONALD: I want to be really clear that these charges are intended to hold the individuals who contributed to this tragedy accountable, and also send a message that gun owners have a responsibility.

When they fail to uphold that responsibility, there are serious and criminal consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:00]

PROKUPECZ: And the issue that the prosecutor says here, yes, this gun, they believe, was purchased for the 15-year-old by the parents. He was present at the gun shop when it was bought.

But, also, it's the failure to secure the weapon, that they didn't have it in a locked box, that they didn't do more to make sure that the gun got into their hands -- into his hands.

But the other thing, obviously, that she brought up is that the family knew something was going on. She said that there was evidence that they have -- she did not want to speak about it -- that shows that this was not something that he planned in a couple of days, that perhaps this went on for much longer, that there was other things going on in this person's life.

She just -- the prosecutor does not want to go into any of that. But, still, this is still going to bring up a lot of anger in this community, continued frustration, and really hurt, so much hurt in this community, because it is the school, they feel, really was the last hope that they had, the last chance that they had to prevent this.

And the school never alerted law enforcement to any of this, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: I mean, there -- just listening to the prosecutor today, there were so many red flags. There were so many points at which something different could have happened.

Shimon, thank you very much for all the reporting on the ground there for us.

And joining us now is former federal prosecutor Kim Wehle. She is also a law professor at the University of Baltimore.

Kim, great to have you.

So, four counts each for the parents of involuntary manslaughter, meaning what? How are they -- what's the evidence that they were connected to the deaths of these four students?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: Well, the argument here is extreme negligence, negligence that goes to the point of recklessness.

So it's akin to driving drunk, for example, and, by mistake, unintentionally causing someone's death. The idea is not that these parents were in some conspiracy with their son to kill these victims, but instead that they had enough knowledge that it was criminally negligent for them to have not taken steps to protect, in this instance, the other students in the school.

BLACKWELL: Now, there are so many people asking the question, why didn't these teachers, the school officials do more than they did, contact law enforcement, insist that he leaves the school that day, instead of accepting the resistance from the parents?

Is there any exposure legally for the school officials?

WEHLE: Well, it sounds like the prosecutor is has not ruled that out. She's made that clear that that's there still an ongoing investigation.

But, of course, school officials have all kinds of rules and regulations that govern how they discipline students in the school. I think the bigger question -- there are two elements here. One is accountability. We're seeing this moment where the question of these mass shootings, does the accountability ability go beyond the shooter, just the shooter, here, parents?

And the second is, it would be great if we lived in a society where everyone exercise really good judgment. But, instead, we have laws. We have laws that manage behavior and create incentives and disincentives. And there's a patchwork of laws across the country called child access prevention laws.

Some states like California require parents to lock up their guns. Other states don't. And, in my mind, this is a moment for reasonable regulation and science. But, of course, Congress has prevented the CDC from even doing research on what measures would reasonably protect our children from gun violence.

CAMEROTA: One of the most sickening things that came out of the press conference with the prosecutor today was how the student, this suspect, was searching for ammunition on his cell phone during a class.

And that teacher saw it, and they alerted the office. The office then called, left a voice-mail for his mom, then e-mailed both his parents. Got no response, but then this text message the prosecutor later found, investigators later found from the mother to her son: "LOL. I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."

So that's -- those are the lessons, I guess, the parenting lessons that they had been giving their son.

A question was asked of the prosecutor, will these parents be taken into custody today? And so they're looking at 15 years if they were convicted. Will they be in prison until this court case? Or, for involuntary manslaughter, will they not be?

WEHLE: Well, I don't know what the sort of -- what the procedure would be in Michigan for that. It's possible that they would get some kind of bail that they could make.

But I agree with you, Alisyn, that, as a parent listening to that, it's really stunning and astonishing. But, again, studies show that most parents, 70 percent or so, believe their children don't have access to guns in their home.

And the studies also show that, actually, a third of the kids can get to them within five minutes. So this is a disconnect with parents understanding what their children under -- what their children want and understand.

[14:10:00]

And, also, of course, this boy, we hear, had been bullied potentially. Suicides have gone up since COVID. Gun deaths related to children have gone up 33 percent because these kids are home. This is a public health crisis. This is something that legislators need to get behind.

And given that about 80 percent of the American public, including 70 percent of the GOP, registered voters, are supportive of laws that require that you just lock up your guns, not take the guns away, but lock them up, hopefully, this tragedy can lead to some saving deaths -- saving children from deaths moving forward to gun -- relating to gun violence.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it's important to point out those child access prevention laws.

According to the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, 4.6 million minors in this country live in a home with an unloaded, unlocked firearm, as was the case here. Fewer than half the states have those cap laws in place.

Kim Wehle, thanks so much.

WEHLE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right, the new jobs report shows hiring hit a speed bump, fell short of expectations, but the president insists there is a boom around the corner.

CAMEROTA: And as scientists around the world rush to learn more about the new Omicron variant, Delta is still wreaking havoc.

So we're going to hear about the new plan to fight these in a live interview with the CDC director, Rochelle Walensky.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:49]

CAMEROTA: The November jobs report came in lower than expected, only 210,000 jobs added last month.

But the unemployment rate went down to 4.2 percent. And that's the lowest since March 2020. And it's way down from the pandemic peak of nearly 15 percent in April of last year.

BLACKWELL: Now, President Biden focused on the six million jobs that have been created since he took office.

CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly joins us now.

So, Phil, tell us more about how the president is framing the jobs numbers.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, guys, I'm not going to surprise you when I tell you the president was focused more on the drop in the unemployment rate than the lower top-line number than was forecasted by economists, significantly lower than the number in October.

And I think, more than anything else, what this report underscores, when you listen to the president today, when you talk to White House officials, is just -- it's the pandemic in a nutshell, in terms of the top-line number definitely missed what expectations were. It was significantly lower than what White House officials wanted it to be.

But if you dig in on the report, there are a number of positive signs, starting, obviously, with the unemployment rate dropping from 4.6 to 4.2 percent. You had wages going up. You had labor force participation ticking up as well. So it's kind of a mixed bag to some degree.

And that presents its own complications, as the White House has seen and acknowledged over the course of the last several months, particularly with inflation high due to supply chain bottlenecks, energy prices high as well. And that's the issues it seems like people have been latching on to, as the president acknowledged today.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Despite this progress, families are anxious. They're anxious about COVID. They're anxious about the cost of living and the economy more broadly.

They're still uncertain. I want you to know, I hear you. It's not enough to know that we're making progress. You need to see it and feel it in your own lives, around the kitchen table, in your checkbooks.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Obviously, a key focus for the White House over the course of the last several weeks and will be going forward.

Now, guys, you may have noticed the president's voice was a little bit gravelly there. He often clears his throat when he's speaking. He was doing that much more often during these remarks.

And it turns out he was asked about why that was the case. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Your voice sounds a little different. Are you OK?

BIDEN: I'm OK. I have a test every day to see -- a COVID test. I -- they check me for all the strains.

What I have is a one-and-a-half-year-old grandson who had a cold, who likes to kiss his pop.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: And he'd been kissing my -- anyway, so -- but it's just a cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Really diming out his grandson there.

Well, the president's remarks saying he just had a cold were backed up by a memo from a White House physician just a few moments ago, the president's physician saying he does in fact have a cold. He is taking over-the-counter medications for that cold. And he's been tested three times this week for COVID-19, and, guys, he has tested negative every time.

CAMEROTA: That's good, because his voice is like an octave lower than it was yesterday.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: Phil Mattingly, thank you.

Let's go to Mark Zandi. He is the chief economist at Moody's Analytics.

Mark, good to have you.

Let's start here. What do you see in the numbers that were released this morning?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Well, Victor, I see them more as glass-half-full than glass-empty.

I mean, the job gain was soft, disappointing. But I think it's important to realize that, all year long, these initial estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the government agency that puts the data together, had been revised higher as we get more information and data.

We saw that today. The October-September numbers got revised higher. So, when this is all said and done, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the November job numbers were revised significantly higher.

And, on top of, that decline in the unemployment rate, that's really significant, not only because we're getting pretty close to 4 percent, which is pretty close to what most people would consider to be full employment, but it also happened when we saw a big increase in the labor force participation rate.

So it's a lot of crosscurrents. You got to look deep into the data. But my sense is, it signifies the job market is strong.

CAMEROTA: And labor participation rate going up means that people are finally coming in from the sidelines, where they have been for 18 months?

ZANDI: Yes, that's exactly right.

So, Alisyn, during the pandemic, lots of people left the labor force for lots of different reasons, illness, taking care of sick people, fearful of getting sick. We need to get those folks back into the labor force and taking all those unfilled job positions.

[14:20:08]

And today's number suggest that that process is under way, that people are now starting to come back in and taking those positions. That will help ease some of the labor shortages and normalize the job market and the economy.

BLACKWELL: Well, let's talk about the influence of another set of numbers, the new daily cases now above 100,000 per day for the first time in two months.

The influence of those numbers, the now presence of Omicron here in the U.S., how fears of that and the winter surge, how that could impact job growth.

ZANDI: Yes, this is obviously the biggest threat.

The economy remains tethered to the pandemic. When the Delta wave hit us back in the summer, that did a lot of damage. It slowed growth, cost us jobs. And, of course, it's the key reason why we have seen this spike in inflation.

So now that we're seeing infections starting to rise and Omicron on our doorstep, this is something we need to watch, and it's going to be an issue. It's going to slow growth. Now, hopefully each new wave -- there's going to be more waves. It would Pollyannish to think that that won't be the case. But, hopefully, each new wave is less disruptive to the health care of the -- health care system and the economy than the previous wave.

If that that's the case, then we will be OK. But there's a lot of script to be written here on that.

CAMEROTA: Mark, you have a prediction about gas prices that I think people will be happy to hear.

ZANDI: Yes, so oil prices, which are obviously the key element into gasoline prices, they have come down a lot in the last few weeks.

I mean, if you go back a few weeks ago, the gallon -- excuse me -- a barrel of oil was going for about $85 a barrel. Now it's going for like $65 a barrel. So that means that the average American who's seeing $3.50 for a gallon of gasoline will be paying probably closer to $3, maybe even below $3, in the next couple, three weeks.

So that's a very positive development, because, obviously, gasoline prices play a key role in how we think about inflation and how many of us think about the broader economy.

CAMEROTA: That will be welcome news to so many Americans.

ZANDI: Indeed.

CAMEROTA: OK, Mark Zandi, thank you.

ZANDI: Take care.

CAMEROTA: You too.

The WHO's chief scientist says the Omicron variant appears to be -- quote -- "very transmissible." Stricter testing requirements are set to take effect for all travelers coming into the U.S. in just days. So are these measures strong enough to slow the spread of COVID this winter?

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:23]

BLACKWELL: The Omicron variant has now been detected in five U.S. states. And experts anticipate that that number will grow.

Health officials say there's no cause for panic here. CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said that 99.9 percent of COVID cases are still of the Delta variant.

CAMEROTA: President Biden emphasized the importance of boosters for all adults and implemented stricter testing for travelers to the U.S. as part of his new COVID strategy. Today, he defended the decision not to require testing or vaccines for

domestic travel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The measures that I announced yesterday are -- we believe are sufficient to deal with the proper medical precautions to deal with the spread of this new variant.

I'm not a scientist, so I continue to rely on the scientists and asking them whether or not we have to move beyond what we did yesterday. Right now, they're saying no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is here and is going to discuss all of this and more with CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky.

Sanjay, take it away.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Alisyn.

And, Dr. Walensky, welcome. Thanks. Thanks for joining us.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Thank you. It's good to be with you, yes. Good to be back with you.

GUPTA: Well, let's get right to it.

I mean, it's been over a week now since the world learned about this new variant. What do we know now that we didn't know them?

WALENSKY: You know, well, these data are really starting to emerge.

We have seen a rise in cases in South Africa and Southern Africa. And we're learning a lot about this. We will learn a lot about this variant from them. As noted, there are now actually six states that have reported cases here in the United States.

We have scaled up our genomic sequencing here and have been prepared for this because of all we have -- all of the work that we have done so far. We have so many more tools now to address variants than we did a year ago.

But I do want to highlight what was said at the top, which is, we now have about 86,000 cases of COVID right now in the United States being diagnosed daily, and 99.9 percent of them, the vast majority of them, continue to be Delta.

And we know what we need to do against Delta, and that is get vaccinated, get boosted if you're eligible, and continue all of those prevention measures, including masking. And those are very likely to work against Omicron as well.

GUPTA: Are you worried that Omicron will become the dominant strain here?

Do we have evidence of that? Or what's your level of concern?

WALENSKY: You know, it might. And we don't yet know.

What we do know is that early data and even mutation data are telling us that this may well be a more transmissible variant than Delta.

[14:30:00]