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Dr. Sanjay Gupta One-On-One With CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky; Government Shutdown Averted Amid GOP Threats Over Biden's Vaccine Mandates; Trump & Haley Meet For First Time Since She Criticized Him; Dr. Oz Running For Pennsylvania Senate Seat; Alec Baldwin Says He's Not Responsible For "Rust" Shooting; School Shooting Suspect's Parents, Now Missing, Charged With Four Counts Of Involuntary Manslaughter. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: You know, it might. And we don't yet know.

What we do know is that early data and even mutation data are telling us that this may well be a more transmissible variant than Delta. And so this is going to take some time to sort out.

We are prepared, though. We are doing genomic sequencing in all of the states. But it may be that we start to see more Omicron than we have Delta. And we will be following that very carefully.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, as you mentioned, we're doing a lot more sequencing than a year ago or even several months ago.

But it strikes me, Dr. Walensky, we're still only doing about a million tests a day. Period. There was talk at one point of doing 20 million, 30 million tests a day.

If we're not doing enough tests, even if we're sequencing more, doesn't that put us behind in terms of actually being able to have real vision on what is happening here?

WALENSKY: So, I think you're referring to the PCR test. We're doing about one and a half million PCR tests per week.

But I think what we really need to comment on is we're doing a lot more rapid testing.

And even with the president's actions yesterday, we're scaling up rapid testing in our international airports as we speak, in LAX and San Francisco, Atlanta, Newark, JFK, to make sure that we have rapid and PCR tests available for our international travelers.

So they could come in and do tests, three to five days even if they don't have symptoms after they arrive.

We're doing a lot of testing in -- in Arcadia, 12 communities. And we're scaling up the rapid tests that will be available in our -- in lower income settings and in more vulnerable communities so those rapid tests will be free.

We have rapid tests that are now going to be available that could be refunded from your insurance company.

So we're doing more not only in our PCR and also in our rapid testing.

GUPTA: And I think a lot of people, especially as we're going into the cooler, dryer months, still have questions about testing. Who should be getting tested and how often should people be getting tested, what kind of tests should they be using?

WALENSKY: You know, I think that this is -- the whole point is to have accessible, affordable tests tor when you need or want one and that is exactly what all of the scale up has been about.

Certainly, if you have any symptoms that are suggestive of COVID-19, you should go and get a test. And I would say, if you have access to a rapid test, or a PCR, get that one.

So anybody that has symptoms should get a test and consult with their physician, with their health care provider. But certainly, quarantine until you have the results of that test.

And many people are using tests for asymptomatic screening, like they're doing in our K-through-12 systems, like they're doing in many higher-ed. And many are also using it as people start to gather for the holidays.

So for example you want to have a gathering, you have a whole group of people who are vaccinated, who have been practicing prevention measures for the weeks before the gathering and really want that extra amount of reassurance, you could get a test there as well to make sure that your safe to gather.

GUPTA: You mentioned the patients who have now been diagnosed with the new variant here in the United States.

One of them is a patient in Minnesota. And this is a person who was fully vaccinated and had a booster as well. So we're advising people to get vaccinated. Get a booster.

And then we hear about this particular person. Now it sounds like the symptoms are mild. But what level of concern does this present?

WALENSKY: You know, I think we have to understand the whole circumstance there. And we're still learning a lot about this case and about all of the contacts.

It may very well be that this case had been one of a thousand people who have been exposed to Omicron and this was the only case that turned positive, in which case it would indicate that our vaccines are working very well.

It is also helpful to understand that this person had mild symptoms that have, to my understanding, resolved pretty swiftly.

So this may very well be, actually a story of vaccine success and not necessarily one of vaccine failure. And that is what all of the science right now we're doing to understand.

GUPTA: You know, I do want to ask about this issue of natural immunity, Dr. Walensky. It comes up quite a bit.

People who have had COVID feel like they have in infection-acquired immunity, wondering why they still need to get the vaccine. There's been a lot of back and forth on this.

Should there be some plan in place to be able to figure out if someone actually has antibodies, have immunity and, therefore, doesn't either need to be vaccinated now or, you know, get a booster now, whatever it may be?

WALENSKY: Yes, this is really important question. And still one that is under study.

[14:35:00]

But the thing that I think is really important to understand here is, the more mutations you have in a variant, the more you would like to bolster your immunity to have as much immunity as possible to overcome that variant.

And so what we know now, with the Omicron variant, is more immunity will be better.

So if you have previously had infection, will you definitely be more protected if you also get a vaccine.

And that is really the goal here, is to provide the most amount of protection as possible so people will be protected against severe disease and against infection altogether.

GUPTA: Typically, when something like this happens, we're used to hearing from the CDC right away. Do you think the country would have benefited from hearing from you when this variant actually came out?

WALENSKY: We were all working together through the holiday weekend. And we had a statement as soon as this came out.

And we have -- we intend to and will continue to be fully transparent with all of the data that we are learning as soon as we are learning it.

GUPTA: So you weren't being sidelined in any way?

WALENSKY: Oh, absolutely not. We have been collaborating and working through the weekend altogether.

GUPTA: OK, Dr. Walensky, please keep in touch. We want to keep hearing from you. And, you know, keep us informed on what is happening with the Omicron. WALENSKY: We'll absolutely do. Thank you so much for having me.

GUPTA: All right, Dr. Walensky.

Alisyn and Victor?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Dr. Sanjay, fascinating conversation.

And where you left off there, the question early on after we got the name Omicron was got that Greek letter, where is Dr. Walensky, especially after we saw some confusion over boosters and who should get them.

The CDC director was crucial to hear from her and we didn't for a couple of days.

GUPTA: Yes, she just talked about that. She said she was working over the weekend.

You're right. Typically, we do hear from the CDC first in these situations. They are the ones that usually announce this sort of thing.

But I guess Dr. Fauci and others were out there talking about this. She was at the briefing Monday, which was three days later. But you heard her explanation there.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Sanjay, I'm so glad you brought up the issue of natural immunity. Because I have read research that suggests, and you often hear people say, that that provided more protection than a vaccine.

And I've read more research that suggests that a vaccine provides much longer lasting and stronger natural immunity than after you've caught COVID.

So is it not settled science? Is that what I just heard?

GUPTA: I think what is interesting about this is, historically, you look at a lot of people, even going back to the days of SARS, people who have infections, they did develop long-standing immunity after those sorts of infections.

With this particular virus, it does appear to be different. Re- infection rates seem to be higher among people who have previous infections versus those who are vaccinated.

What I thought was interesting, if you look at South Africa, and look at the waves of infection over there, you see that they have these surges.

Hardly, any vaccination there, especially early on. They have waves of infection and then it sort of dies down for about three to four months, and then another wave.

And the reason I bring that up is because that is a population that gives you an idea of how long infection-acquired immunity lasts. And it could be three to four months. And it is not effective against new variants.

So this is a big question going forward, as you heard from the CDC director.

But I think it is pretty clear that, let's say that you had COVID in the past with a previous variant, the idea that it will protect you against Omicron or Delta if you didn't have Delta, seems low.

And that is why the vaccines are so critical.

BLACKWELL: Sanjay, thank you so much for that conversation.

GUPTA: You got it.

(CROSSTALK)

[14:38:56]

BLACKWELL: Nikki Haley's icy relationship with former President Trump appears to be thawing. The two reunited 10 months after Haley was effectively banished from Trump world. We'll tell you about their meeting, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:43:47]

CAMEROTA: Well the federal government once again averted a shutdown last night. The Senate passed a stop-gap bill to keep the government open until the end of February.

Though Republicans were two votes short of derailing it over their desire to stop President Biden's vaccine mandates.

BLACKWELL: And this is not over. Republican Senator Mike Lee, of Utah, said they will keep bringing this up at any chance they get.

Here to discuss, CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentator, Charlie Dent, former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania.

Gloria, first to you.

We're a week and a half out for the deadline for the debt ceiling increase. Is this something we expect that they're going to continue to bring up and lead to this catastrophe, as we've heard from economists if it's not done.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think you can expect Republicans to continue raising the issue of the vaccine mandate over and over again.

Senator Lee said as much, every time they could. It is a good issue with their base. And I think that we're at a point in the Congress where you could expect to see this through the 2022 election.

It is not a matter of governing right now for the minority. They want to make sure that Biden cannot govern and show that he has a governing majority.

[14:45:04]

And so that is what we're watching, unfortunately.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, I want to get your thoughts on vaccine mandates because I know that you're not a fan. So I want what your thoughts are on that.

But I want to point out, in terms of the federal mandate, since it has been implemented for federal employees, the compliance rate of getting vaccinated is upwards of something like 95 percent.

So it is effective.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: I get that you don't like it.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't.

I'm OK with the federal mandates on government workers -- federal workers and the military and public safety.

CAMEROTA: What don't you like?

DENT: I'm not crazy about the OSHA mandate for private-sector employees of over 100 people.

CAMEROTA: And that is what these Republicans are objecting to.

DENT: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So what don't you like?

DENT: Well, it is difficult to find workers right now. And some of these industries, if you have to fire 10 percent to 20 percent of your work force, we'll have more supply chain shortages. So we have to figure out a way to work through it.

But I think it is bad politics to carry on about the vaccine mandates because most of us are vaccinated. And that is -- and we should be appealing to people who are vaccinated, a lot more of them than unvaccinated.

So I think it is a mistake to overly politicize this issue.

BLACKWELL: Let's turn to this meeting that happened between former President Trump, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley. It is described as pleasant but brief, which is a brief description as well. That's according to "Politico."

He rejected her meeting a few months ago after what she wrote about his role on January 6th.

What is the strategy here of even having a meeting now considering what 2024 likely has for both of them?

BORGER: Yes, it is so interesting to watch all of these gyrations because potential candidates all feel like they have to go to Mar-a- Lago to kiss the ring. They don't want to alienate Donald Trump.

Nikki Haley has already alienated Doanld Trump, as you point out. He has a very long memory.

This weekend, I spoke with a source who is familiar with Donald Trump's thinking about Nikki Haley. And this source said to me he doesn't like Nikki Haley. The source also said to me he doesn't like Ron DeSantis.

And why do you think that is? The two of them are potentially very popular Republican presidential candidates who could challenge him should he run.

I will add that the source said that he's 99.9 percent sure that Trump is going to run. So I'm not sure, but this source is.

CAMEROTA: That is very interesting.

Speaking of running. Dr. Oz, so, famous television doctor, is running for Senate in your homeland of Pennsylvania.

And I know that you've said that, generally, people -- Pennsylvanians don't take likely to a carpet bagger who hasn't lived in Pennsylvania or hasn't for a long time.

Doesn't his celebrity trump that? Pun intended.

DENT: Hurt it? Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

DENT: I think his celebrity will help mitigate the problem.

But I think I can tell you, as a guy who ran against a candidate who never lived in the district, this is what we call the 80 percent issue. It was in every message. It was powerful.

The simple argument was, how you could send somebody to Washington to represent you who doesn't live in your community?

CAMEROTA: You said that every time you --

(CROSSTALK)

DENT: Every time. There was no other issue. It was the only issue. It was very effective. The powers that be, in Washington, said don't use that, that is not

going to work, until we had to bring in the best pollster, that it was the only issue that was effective in every message.

So the bottom line it may not be a disqualifying issue, given his celebrity, but it is going to be a close race. You can't afford to lose people in Frackville and Bradford County, especially in the primacy. Some people could be parochial about these sorts of things.

If I were Dr. Oz, that is a big issue. And he has to deal with some of the other issues, like the quack therapies that he's been pushing.

But I think this residency issue is problematic for him.

CAMEROTA: OK, Charlie Dent, Gloria Borger, thank you both.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

[14:49:02]

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Alec Baldwin is talking about the moments on his film set after the shooting of the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins. He insists he is not responsible for her death. The one question he wants answered, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Alec Baldwin says that someone is responsible for that deadly accidental shooting on his movie set but it's not him.

Baldwin cried several times during his first in-depth interview about the incident. But he stressed, according to him, there's only one question that really needs to be answered, who brought live rounds on to the "Rust" set.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me.

Honest to god, if I felt that I was responsible, I might have killed myself if I thought I was responsible. And I don't say that lightly.

Somebody brought live rounds, plural, onto the set of the film. And one of them ended up in that gun. And if the bullets didn't come on the property, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

There's only one question to be resolved, only one, and that is: Where did the live round come from?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN national correspondent, Natasha Chen, has more of that interview.

Natasha, that is the big question. Haven't investigators figured out yet how that live round got on the set?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, Victor, it could be quite a while before we hear any developments from investigators who are currently combing through a lot of evidence and interviews.

Now, Alec Baldwin did talk about some of the legal issues in this case. He did say that he spoke to some of the people that he felt are in the know, and that he feels it's unlikely that he would be charged criminally.

But he's already been named in a couple of civil suits filed, for example, by Mamie Mitchell, the script supervisor on set, as well as Serge Svetnoy, a lighting technician.

Here's what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There are two people that filed civil suits so far. And one of them walked up to me outside the church probably within 15 or 20 minutes of the event itself and put their hand on me and said, you realize that you have no responsible for what's happened here, don't you?

[14:55:13]

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Was this Serge?

BALDWIN: No comment. One of those two. And now that person is suing me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: He said the fact that they have filed suits before the husband of the late Halyna Hutchins has even done so is unsettling -- Alisyn and Victor?

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you about the attorney for one crew member. She's already firing back after this interview. Tell us about that.

CHEN: Yes, Victor. That's Gloria Allred. She's the attorney representing Mamie Mitchell, the script supervisor, one of the people filing a suit.

And Allred said that Baldwin just needs to look in the mirror to see one of the people responsible. And that he should step up and take that responsibility.

Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR MAMIE MITCHELL, SCRIPT SUPERVISOR: There's no point in pitting victims against each other.

The point is Mr. Baldwin is not taking responsibility.

He said in this interview, what can I do? I will tell you, Alec Baldwin, what you could have done. You could have checked that gun before it was fired from your hand.

And it matters what happened to Mamie Mitchell. I mean, Mamie Mitchell ran out and made that 911 call, OK? She cared about helping someone else. What did Alec Baldwin do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: Baldwin did address the issue of actors checking the guns. He said that is not required as part of the job. He said the job of checking the gun is that of the armorer or the prop master.

Again, he said that, as far as responsibility, he said someone is, but it's not him -- Victor and Alisyn?

BLACKWELL: Natasha Chen, in Los Angeles, thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Welcome to NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell.

CAMEROTA: All right, let's turn to the new charges from the Michigan prosecutor who is seeking justice in Tuesday's deadly school shooting.

James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the four students their son allegedly killed on Tuesday.

BLACKWELL: Prosecutor Karen McDonald revealed that these parents purchased the handgun for their 15-year-old son for Christmas.

And on the morning of the shooting, the Crumbleys were summoned to school after teachers saw their son with a violent drawing, depicting guns and people bleeding, and the phrase, quote, "The thoughts won't stop. Help me."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN MCDONALD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MI, PROSECUTOR: Jennifer and James Crumbley were shown the drawing and advised that they were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours.

Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him.

James and Jennifer Crumbley resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time. Instead, James and Jennifer Crumbley left the high school without their son. He was returned to the classroom. When the news of the active shooter at Oxford High School had been

made public, Jennifer Crumbley texted to her son, at 1:22 p.m., quote, "Ethan, don't do it."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard joins us now.

Sheriff, thank you for your time.

They have now been charged. Where are the Crumbleys?

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, SHERIFF, OAKLAND COUNTY, MI, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: As a matter of fact, that's a question our detectives are working on right now.

This morning, prior to any charges being issued, an attorney representing them called our detectives and said, if the prosecutor announces charges, we'll make arrangements to have them arrested.

And when we were informed the prosecutor had issued charges, we sent detectives out, and got a call from the lawyer for the couple saying they're not returning her calls or texts.

So if they think they're going to get away, they're not.

BLACKWELL: So the Crumbleys are missing now?

BOUCHARD: Correct.

BLACKWELL: Have you searched their house?

BOUCHARD: Oh, we have, yes, a host of detectives out, including our partners with the FBI and the U.S. Marshal Service, my fugitive apprehension team.

Like I said, if they think they're going to not come with their attorney but going to run, we're going to remedy that.

BLACKWELL: When is the last time there was communication with the Crumbleys?

BOUCHARD: They haven't communicated with us. The only communication we had was through their attorney.

[14:59:54]

BLACKWELL: Do you know the last time that their attorney had confirmation or some communication with them?

BOUCHARD: As I said, the attorney this morning told us, if charges were issued and, at that point, they had not, that she would make arrangements to have them arrested.