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School Shooting Suspect's Parents, Now Missing, Charged With 4 Counts Of Involuntary Manslaughter; Omicron Variant Detected In Six States, Expected To Spread. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 03, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Do you know the last time that their attorney had confirmation or some communication with them?

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, SHERIFF, OAKLAND COUNTY, MI, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: As I said, the attorney this morning told us, if charges were issued and -- at that point, they had not -- that she would make arrangements to have them arrested.

So when she made that actual last contact, I don't know. But that's when she called up and told them that she would make it let us know and make arrangements and have them arrested.

BLACKWELL: What's your degree of concern that they are armed?

BOUCHARD: You know, anything's possible. I would not encourage anybody to approach them. I think it would be unlikely. But we're not going to take that chance. We're going to go get them.

BLACKWELL: Can you give us an idea of the breadth of the search for them right now?

BOUCHARD: Well, every available resource that is there's happening. It's going on right now.

And if they're tuned in at all, they should do what they originally were supposed to do with their attorney, and that was to make themselves available for arrest.

BLACKWELL: Are their vehicles still at the home?

BOUCHARD: I'm not going to get into what our detectives are doing or cars or things like that, but we'll put something out as it develops.

BLACKWELL: OK.

Your reaction to the charges being filed today, these four counts of involuntary manslaughter?

BOUCHARD: Well, I mean, certainly, a lot of the information that came out today we've known for some time, but we couldn't talk about because the prosecutor had to make a determination of whether to charge, and we couldn't tip our hand. We thought some of the material that was contained in those drawings

and notes were very troubling and the lack of reaction or responsiveness by the parents was very troubling.

BLACKWELL: Is there more evidence that speaks to the premeditation of this that we did not hear from the prosecutor today?

BOUCHARD: Well, we have obviously digital evidence that our computer folks have recovered that he clearly talks about it in advance of it happening. What he's going to do, when he's going to do it, and what his plans are.

So pretty clear it's premeditated.

BLACKWELL: At what point -- and we learned a lot today from this prosecutor about the drawings and the search for ammunition.

On that first day, when that teacher saw the search for ammunition, contacted or tried to contact the Crumbleys and there was no response, is that the point at which you wish they would have called you? Was there an obligation to call you that first day?

BOUCHARD: I wish we would have been involved the first day and certainly if not the first day, the second day in the meeting or immediately notified of the content and discussion of the meeting.

Because, you know, we have a process that we would have triggered into action at that moment.

BLACKWELL: We've got the Crumbleys back up on camera right now. The breaking news is there's a search for the Crumbleys, the parents of this charged shooter in the Oxford High School in Michigan.

They're missing. There was supposed to be a hand over of these parents after they were charged.

Is there any indication, sheriff, that they would potentially leave the state or have a contact that would take them somewhere outside of Michigan?

BOUCHARD: Well, again, given that their attorney said they would handle this if charges were an issue, and now they're not talking to the attorney, it certainly is indicative their intent to flee, which is something we plan to stop very short.

BLACKWELL: Let me play something we heard from the superintendent last night about the drawings, the writings from this suspected shooter, and said that there was no reason for discipline.

And I want your reaction from that on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM THRONE, OXFORD COMMUNITY SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT: There's been a lot of talk about the student that was apprehended, that he was, you know, called up to the office and all that kind of stuff. No discipline was warranted.

There are no discipline records at the high school. Yes, this student did have contact with our front office. And, yes, his parents were on campus, November 30th!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I'll ask you, you said that you wish the school would have called you. But considering what we all know now about the drawings, about what he wrote, did they have an obligation to contact law enforcement after that?

BOUCHARD: Well, certainly, after the second encounter in the morning, I believe it was more than appropriate and necessary, based on the content of what was seen on the second day. Clearly, I believe that that would have been appropriate.

[15:05:06]

And I also know that our school resource officer would have asked him to be removed from school while that counseling or whatever was ordered by the school takes place.

And I know that school resource officer's practice would have escorted him from the school and made sure that he didn't have any weapons when he did it.

BLACKWELL: Let's put the video of the Crumbleys back up on the screen.

We know that law enforcement is now searching for James and Jennifer Crumbley.

There was supposed to be this handover after the charges today. And now their attorney, according to the sheriff, who's with us, cannot get in contact with them.

What's your degree of concern that they are -- I mean, there's still evidence that must be potentially harvested in this case as it moves forward, that they could destroy some of that?

BOUCHARD: I don't think necessarily that they've got any evidence left because we've already executed search warrants against the home, and on digital devices and things like that.

But what they have with them I don't think is part and parcel necessarily of anything furtherance along that line.

You know, obviously they may have some cell phones. But if they had communicated with the suspect's cell phones, we have already had that in our possession.

BLACKWELL: Sheriff, it's been several days since their son was charged, and on that day, the prosecutor indicated that it was possible that they could be charged. It was even clearer last night.

Should there have been a deputy outside of their home? Should there have been some surveillance to avoid a situation like this?

BOUCHARD: Well, at that point, we didn't have any ability to get a search warrant, for example, to monitor their devices or movements.

And at that point also, it's not believed they were even home. So that was the first indication that there might be something forthcoming, was last night at the press conference when we heard it.

And so that's when we began the process of trying to move forward. And the first thing we heard about the actual charges was this morning. So, you know, it's a timeline thing, but we're working forward.

BLACKWELL: So you say that there was no indication that they were at home. When was the last time that you knew where the Crumbleys were, that you had an idea of, if they were at home or if not, where they were located?

BOUCHARD: Well, again, they had been cooperating and there were no pending charges.

So there was not, at the early stages, any surveillance obviously on them because there was no indication charges against them that were going to be leveed. So, you know, their movements from that point were not monitored.

As it got closer to last night, and it appeared as if the prosecutor was going to issue charges, our detectives started to begin that process.

BLACKWELL: I understand that you say that there was no search warrant, or there was no surveillance.

But when is the last time that your deputies, your department knew where they were? Did you know where they were yesterday? Did you know where they were on the day of the charging?

It looks here like they're in a car watching this video. Were they even in Michigan as they were watching these proceedings?

BOUCHARD: I'd have to actually talk to the detectives to find out where they last communicated with them or where they last had them. I mean, this obviously just recently happened.

BLACKWELL: Are there any other children in that home?

BOUCHARD: I don't believe there are. Again, I'd have to talk to the detectives. I believe this was their youngest child. If they had other children, I believe they were older and grown.

BLACKWELL: Can you tell us about the vehicle potentially that they're in?

BOUCHARD: That is something our detectives are in the process of right now. And as I said, you know, we'll push out information as soon as possible.

BLACKWELL: What's the degree of communication with neighboring states or federal officials to try to find the Crumbleys?

BOUCHARD: Oh, we're hand in glove.

As soon as we knew charges had been issued and that they weren't any longer cooperating with the attorney that had pledged to bring them in, we began to activate our fugitive team, our detectives that search for wanted persons, the U.S. Marshal Service, as well as the FBI.

BLACKWELL: So the FBI is involved now in this search?

BOUCHARD: Yes. As is the U.S. Marshal team and our fugitive team.

BLACKWELL: OK.

Sheriff Michael Bouchard, of Oakland County there, thank you so much for spending some time with me to get the breaking news out, now there's a search for the parents of this suspected shooter -- for being with us.

[15:10:01]

Do we still have the sheriff up?

OK. Let's bring the sheriff back.

Sheriff, what's your message to the public about the Crumbleys as you conduct this search for them?

BOUCHARD: If they know where they are or they see them, please call 911. Don't approach them.

You know, intuitively I don't think that they would be dangerous to the public, but I wouldn't take that for granted. And we're going to find them. If the public can help, that would be great.

BLACKWELL: All right. Sheriff Bouchard, thank you.

BOUCHARD: Thank you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Just incredible breaking news, incredible developments that the sheriff just shared with us --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- about the parents of this suspect.

Joining us now is criminal defense attorney, Page Pate, CNN's Shimon Prokupecz in Michigan.

Shimon, they're now fugitives because the sheriff didn't even know the last time they had made contact with their attorney or when the last time they were seen is.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It was a great series of questions from Victor there. Because I've been here all week. The prosecutor has been telegraphing that this is going to happen in a few days.

Yesterday, we were asking them. We, as reporters, who have covered these kinds of stories, were concerned that they were going to flee.

And one of the things that signaled that to us is, on the day of their son's arraignment, they were in a car. They were watching the arraignment sitting in a car. You can see in the video from the Zoom video, they are sitting in a car. They weren't inside the courthouse.

And we started asking questions. We found that kind of strange. And we started asking officials questions: Are you concerned that they're going to flee? Do you know where they are? And we sort of weren't getting answers.

We have been by the home. There's no activity at the home. So we knew police wouldn't go there. But this has been the big mystery the last few days are, where are the parents?

And of course, this morning, we asked before the charges were announced, were they in custody?

And I was kind of surprised to see that the officials and that the prosecutor and law enforcement here would be announcing these charges without them being in custody. That's just very rare and never happens.

Now obviously, we're learning all of this new information that the attorney they hired -- we have been calling this attorney, she's not returned our calls -- they have stopped speaking to her.

Now there's this big mystery. This is a manhunt. The fact that they have the FBI involved, the U.S. Marshals, which is some of the best in finding fugitives.

They are usually brought in when someone is a high target. And they have all kinds of tools they could use from tracing cell phones to other things.

That is a very significant development, the fact that the U.S. Marshals, the fact that the FBI is being brought in now, and that neighboring law enforcement officials from the state police and other local departments.

Hugely significant because they really don't know where they are. And you would think they would have eyes on them.

It could be now, for a few days, they have not known where they were.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in also to the conversation, CNN law enforcement analyst, Anthony Barksdale.

Commissioner, I wonder how in the world could this have happened. The first hint is they're watching the proceedings from a car. Right? Also, the sheriff said that there was no search warrant to be able to surveil.

How does law enforcement, how does this law enforcement lose track of people when they have been signaling for days charges are coming?

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It's a fumble. We just have to admit it. It's a fumble. Let's hope to recover this, recover this fumble.

There's no way that this should have happened. If they know they were going in this direction, you put surveillance on them. It's that important.

After this incident, you keep surveillance on them. Don't care about manpower. Don't care about overtime. If you're heading in that direction, you stick with these parents.

CAMEROTA: Page, this is astonishing. It's astonishing because there's the picture. They now have to ask the publisher for help. Anybody that has seen these parents, call 911.

The FBI, the U.S. Marshals, the police are looking for them.

And as the sheriff just told Victor, they don't -- she doesn't believe they have any other minor children at home. Nothing is tethering them to Pontiac, Michigan. They can be anywhere at this point if it has been days.

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE PATE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's certainly true.

I'm sorry.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

PATE: They could be trying to flee at this point. But that's not necessarily the case.

I mean, I have been in this position before representing someone who's just been charged with a crime. They tend to panic. And when they panic, they do stupid stuff.

Maybe they're shopping for other lawyers right now. Maybe they're trying to find someone who will give them the answers they want to hear.

[15:14:58]

I have seen this situation happen before where you have a relationship with one lawyer, that lawyer's talking to law enforcement, but then you panic.

You're like, I don't want to be charged. I don't want to go to jail. And you try to find someone else.

So it's possible they may pop up later. Another lawyer could get in touch with law enforcement. But Shimon is exactly right that you don't publicly announce you're going to arrest someone. You announce the charges and the arrest once the arrest has been made.

I agree with the analyst that this was a fumble. But I don't know necessarily they're out of the jurisdiction at this point.

BLACKWELL: Page, let me stay with you. You're the constitutional expert here. The sheriff said there was no surveillance, in part, because they did not have a search warrant.

Do you need a search warrant to be able to surveil?

PATE: It depends on the type of surveillance, Victor. If they're trying to attach a GPS locator to their car, yes, you need a warrant for that. We know that from a recent Supreme Court case.

If you're simply hanging out on the street, if you're watching them from the public in a place where you're authorized to be, you don't need any warrant for that.

You can put a car down the street, you can follow them around town. Absolutely no warrant required if you want to have that type of surveillance.

CAMEROTA: Shimon, I really appreciate Page's reminder to all of us to sort of keep a cool head. They could be anywhere.

But part of why I think we're feeling alarmed is because what little we know about the mother and about the parents basically from the prosecutor today was that when her son was caught looking for ammunition during a class time in school on his cell phone, the school officials tried to contact her.

They tried to contact both parents. They got no response. But later, they found a text from her that said, "LOL, I'm not mad at you," to her son. "You have to learn not to get caught."

PROKUPECZ: Right. And keep in mind, also, Alisyn, that the parents have not been cooperative with law enforcement at all throughout this entire investigation.

Which really frustrated them and annoyed them and aggravated them because the parents, honestly, just made up a story in the beginning saying that they had an attorney for their son. And they told the police, don't question him.

That was not the case. They never hired an attorney from the beginning. They were not cooperative with the police from the beginning.

And as the police started doing their investigations, getting search warrants, getting subpoenas, there were indications that the family was not being truthful.

Through these text messages, right, the one you just read now, that should have been a red flag for them.

You don't need a warrant to do surveillance on someone. When you know you are about to arrest someone, the FBI does this, other law enforcement officers from all across the country do this.

When you know you have probable cause and you're getting close to arresting someone, you want to make sure that they don't flee. And so you sit on the house.

That's what it's called, you sit on them. That's the way law enforcement refers to it. You watch them. You keep an eye. You make sure they're not communicating with anyone so that they will flee. If you see any signs that they may flee, then you move in.

There sems to have been something that went on, that people weren't communicating or, perhaps, as we're saying here, this is a fumble. This should not have happened, the bottom line.

They should have had eyes on them for days because they knew this was going to happen.

And the fact that it now is, and the idea that they don't -- that, well, maybe, perhaps, that they have a new attorney, and they're not communicating, perhaps. But I don't think anyone here at this point isn't taking any chances.

The fact that they're calling the FBI in, the U.S. Marshals, the state police, these fugitive task forces to now come in and join together in what is now a manhunt throughout this area, and perhaps outside of here as they start to look for these two.

And while they may not feel that they have any firearms on them because they believe they took everything out of the home, we just don't know.

And law enforcement really doesn't know at this point because they haven't been in touch with them for days.

So now they have this manhunt, and they're bringing in all of these resources to try and find them.

BLACKWELL: Remarkable, what we have learned in just the last 20 minutes. These two, James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of this suspected shooter at Oxford High School, are now considered fugitives.

Shimon Prokupecz, Page Pate, Anthony Barksdale, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Just remarkable.

I just want to say, if they stay together, as couples sometimes do, they'll be much easier to capture. Sometimes they split up and it makes it much more complicated.

Starting right now, this has gotten tougher for law enforcement, and it didn't have to be this way. BLACKWELL: And what's worse is, Shimon has talked about the pain and

frustration of the parents after what they learned what the school knew, after they saw the drawings, after they saw the search, and there was no contact of law enforcement.

And now the parents are missing or running. We don't know. Page made a good point that maybe they are now looking for a new attorney. But there's now a federal search for these parents.

[15:20:07]

CAMEROTA: And they're not at their home.

BLACKWELL: Yes, we know that.

CAMEROTA: We know that because the FBI and U.S. Marshals are now involved.

BLACKWELL: We'll continue to follow the breaking news, of course.

But we are also following the number of Omicron cases across this country growing. The threat from the Delta variant still present as well.

Some doctors are saying President Biden's plan to combat the virus is not bold enough. We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:07]

BLACKWELL: Six states now have identified the new Omicron variant in the U.S. And that number is expected to go up. That's according to health officials. But they also say that this is not a reason to panic.

CAMEROTA: President Biden is hoping to prevent a winter surge with his new COVID strategy. This requires stricter testing for travelers to the U.S. It also emphasizes boosters for all adults.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky reiterated the importance of boosters moments ago with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The more mutations you have in a variant, the more you would like to bolster your immunity to have as much immunity as possible to overcome that variant.

And so what we know now with the Omicron variant is more immunity will be better. So if you have previously had infection, you will definitely be more protected if you also get a vaccine.

And that's really the goal here is to provide the most amount of protection as possible, so people will be protected against severe disease, and ideally against infection all together. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Emergency room doctor, Rob Davidson, joins us now.

Dr. Davidson, great to see you again.

I want to pull up the White House strategy. The president announced this nine-prong strategy that he hopes will be able to combat COVID so we don't get into the horrible conditions we have been in at other times.

And we have already heard from some of our doctors that have some strong feelings about some of these things.

The things that jumped out at me were the expanding free at-home testing. I think that will go a long way. That's something that people have been clamoring for. The new treatment pills could be a game changer. And then boosters for everyone over 18.

What jumped out at you from the White House strategy?

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Listen, what jumps out at me is the unfortunate reality of what I'm seeing on the ground where I am.

We have a Delta surge. We think about Omicron -- I was just in the ICU picking up an extra shift helping out there because the ICU that I'm at has three times the number of patients they're supposed to have, that have expanded into other parts of the hospital --

BLACKWELL: All right. Unfortunately, we lost Dr. Rob Davidson there, but we thank him for being with us. We'll try to get him back if we can.

CAMEROTA: And for all of his hard work, of course. Because he takes a break to come on and talk to us but he has been in the emergency room around the clock.

The numbers in Michigan are horrible. They're as bad as they have ever been during this entire pandemic. And he's just fighting it on the ground every single day in the emergency room.

BLACKWELL: We will take a quick break. And we'll be back to move forward on the breaking news. The parents of this charged now shooter in Michigan are on the run, or at least they're missing. We'll get you the latest that we know after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)