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School Shooting Suspect's Parents in Custody After Manhunt; Officials Give Update on Michigan School Shooting Investigation; Sheriff Wraps Up Press Conference on Michigan School Shooting, Hails Law Enforcement Response; Meadows Whitewashes Deadly Capitol Riot in New Book; Biden to Speak with Putin as Tensions Grow over Ukraine. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 04, 2021 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:26]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.
A horrific school shooting and now two parents and their child are behind bars for the deadly attack. In moments, the sheriff in Oakland County, Michigan, will provide an update on the investigation. Earlier today, James and Jennifer Crumbley were arrested in Detroit after an hours long manhunt. You're looking at exclusive CNN footage of the couple being hauled off to the same jail where their son, 15-year-old Ethan, is in custody charged with murdering four classmates and injuring seven.
And just into CNN, Detroit Police have identified a person of interest in surveillance footage from that building. They say it shows the person helping the Crumbleys hide out. This morning, the Crumbleys were arraigned on four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Listen to the prosecutor explain why they took the extraordinary measure of charging the parents for a mass shooting allegedly carried out by their child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN MCDONALD, PROSECUTOR, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: On the 29th, both defendants were aware that he was searching ammunition on his phone at school. Instead of reacting to that as a concerned parent and worried about safety, Mrs. Crumbley texted, "LOL, I'm not mad, just the next time, don't get caught."
And then obviously on this very tragic day on the 30th, they were called to the school and -- about their son's drawing, which clearly depicted threats and acts of violence and instead of disclosing to the school that he had full access to this weapon, they chose not to. Chose not to take their son home. They chose not to tell anybody that he might be dangerous when it was clear and they had every likelihood that he was. And instead, they left.
Furthermore, after the active shooting announcement went out, Mrs. Crumbley texted her son, Ethan, don't do it. And Mr. Crumbley went to his home purposely to search for this weapon because he was afraid his son had the weapon and was in fact shooting people and hurting them, which as we know is exactly what happened.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And CNN's Athena Jones is live in Michigan. Athena, we may have to interrupt you in just a few moments here. As we know the press conference with the sheriff is going to get started any moment. These accusations are so unsettling. Tell us if you can real quick what else did we hear at today's proceedings before we go to this press conference?
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hi, Jim. Well, we heard from the lawyers representing Jennifer and James Crumbley something very interesting. They argued that their clients were never planning to run away. They weren't trying to flee. They were getting their finances in order. Listen to some of that from this morning.
ACOSTA: We'll go to the press conference now. Here we go.
SHERIFF MICHAEL BOUCHARD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: We are obviously, this has moved forward at lightning speed on lots of levels. So as it relates to the two suspects that were charged, the parents that were charged by our prosecutor, Karen McDonald, as you know, we activated a manhunt when charges were issued to locate them immediately. Our partner from the United States Marshall Eastern District Owen Cypher is here.
They along with a lot of partners quite frankly immediately went into action in addition to our Fugitive Apprehension Team. Their teams, Detroit Police was amazing. And we can get into that more. Obviously we had the FBI involved. Michigan State Police. We even had helicopter assistance from the United States Border Patrol. So everybody pitched in. We were confident we'd be able to find them in short order and because of that team work, we did.
So we were notified by Detroit they had received a tip that the vehicle had been seen. We were notified at 23:05, which is 11:05 p.m. our fugitive folks arrived on scene with Detroit at 23:25, which is 11:25. Just 20 minutes after the call, they arrived downtown Detroit to be with Detroit. Detroit had seen the car. Had secured the scene. Had established a perimeter. Done some great police work.
Ultimately at approximately 1:30 in the morning, the two suspects were taken into custody at 11 Bellevue and Detroit in a commercial vehicle. They were in an art studio within that building that has multiple kinds of partitions if you will in that building.
[16:05:02]
They were taken into custody as I said at about 1:30 in the morning. Our Fugitive Apprehension Team took custody and possession of them and they were formally lodged in our jail where they remain at about 3:00 in the morning. So they are in our jail. All three of them.
The son and both parents. They are segregated each individually in isolation. We have advanced watch on them. There is no indicator that any of them, we always have every person that comes in intake evaluated by counselors and classification to determine if there's any threats to themselves or anyone else.
There was no indication that any of them were suicidal, but out of an abundance of caution, our amazing corrections team is doing suicide watches on all three of them. So they are in custody again in isolation. So that's a good step. The further on as it goes to this, we believe, and I've had multiple communications with Chief White of Detroit, our great partner and another again shoutout to his team for what they did, how they did it.
And we've been in conversation and talking about some of the now follow-on information and evidence that we have. We believe they were assisted in that location to get there, to get in. And we're gathering that information and we're going to have the totality of that done fairly soon. And present that to our prosecutor for potential charges for either aiding and abetting or obstruction of justice.
So that will be a determination by our prosecutor at some point in the near future and that is a work in progress with all the other works in progress. Again, you know, every time I get a chance, I want to throw out there to the public, if they have any information on either of these two or the individual, the shooter, please either contact us at OCSO, Oakland County Sheriff's Office. OCSO at Oakgov.com or call us at 2488584911. Any information again about either the actions in the school, proceeding the actions in the school or the follow-on as it relates to the two parents.
And of course, you can be confidential or pass that on any way that you see fit. I know Mr. Marshal from the United States Eastern District wanted to mention something.
OWEN CYPHER, UNITED STATES MARSHAL EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN: Yes. Thank you, Sheriff. Good afternoon. My name is Owen Cypher, I'm the U.S. Marshal for the Eastern District of Michigan. I would just like to say thank you on behalf of the United States Marshal Service to the sheriff's office here in Oakland County. Sheriff Bouchard and his team have always been phenomenal. We've always had a terrific partnership with the Detroit Fugitive Apprehension Team and his staff.
Our officers responded the moment that we got the tip that the vehicle had been found in Detroit. And we had units out working all day yesterday and last night, they've converged on the scene and we're able to help the Detroit Police Department take those subjects into custody. I would also like to thank Chief White and his team down in Detroit. They did a phenomenal job of identifying the vehicle, locating the subjects in a building that they believed they were in.
As soon as we had enough personnel on site to search that building, we did so. We executed the warrants and thankfully no one was hurt in the apprehension of these two individuals and they are now safely in custody. So great thanks to Chief White and to Sheriff Bouchard in the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, Detroit in Oakland County. They've always been great partners with the Marshal Service and we truly appreciate that, so thank you, Sheriff.
BOUCHARD: I think that's really most of what the questions have been about so far today. Does anyone else have any other questions? UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did either of the parents say anything either
on that drive from Detroit to the jail or when they arrive at the jail? Did they say anything to you --
BOUCHARD: Probably at this point where I ain't going to talk about any either spontaneous utterances or discussions because that will now become part of any evidence that may be presented so that information will be turned over to the prosecutor and anything about that will be forthcoming as it relates to, you know, trial activities.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Crumbleys' attorneys (INAUDIBLE) describe this as a miscommunication and said they were planning to turn themselves in. Is that a possibility?
BOUCHARD: Well, all I know is this, is that when we were informed we had an active warrant for them, there was some communication that came in to one of our detectives that said that they were going to arrange for their arrest to turn themselves in. And you know, that's fine. We don't wait for that. When we have serious charges like felonies, you can turn yourself in, you can go to court, you can come to any one of our substations, but we're going to go look for them immediately.
[16:10:05]
And so we triggered once the warrant was in full activation of looking for them because there's a lot more tools at our disposal once we have a warrant. We have been looking for them prior to that, but it was in a much more limited fashion, and that's the most I'm going to say about our investigative techniques. But you know, then later in the morning, we had communication that the couple was not responding to texts or phone calls of their attorney.
So again, to us, that's irrelevant. We're looking for them. If they show up, fine. But we're not going to sit at the front desk and tap our fingers until they come in. We were out actively looking for them. Working with our partners and they were taken into custody before that question was asked or answered. Were they actually going to do it? I don't know. But given that they were hiding in a warehouse in Detroit, it certainly raises my eyebrows.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why were they in Detroit to begin with?
BOUCHARD: That's part of the questions, obviously. Why they were there. Why they were in a commercial building in a, in that form and fashion. We had located their other vehicle at a different location, you know, prior to the warrant even being issued. As I said, we began a process of doing what we could before any warrants were in hand to look for them and we found one other family vehicle at a different location, but they weren't there and there was no connectivity to them being there at that moment.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, can you give some clarity as to how you know that they were hiding? Didn't you say they were in the building where they were tucked away or anything like that?
BOUCHARD: Well, when the tip came in, the person was apparently outside smoking and they pretty much ran away and obviously the way -- I'm not going to get into specifics, but I think where they were and how they were seems to support the position they were hiding and they weren't looking for surrendering at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, what are the criminal ramifications of people that helped them and what are they looking at crime wise? Have the people that helped them been taken into custody and are they cooperating?
BOUCHARD: Well, we obviously don't have any charges at this point, but that's part of the investigation. And ultimately if there are charges that are applicable, that will be the prosecutor's decision. So we're trying to put together as much detailed information on that as it relates to that. Suffice to say we have enough early indications that clearly somebody helped them into that location and made it available to them. And it was after it was publicly announced that there were warrants for them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How much do you know about the whereabouts from Friday morning when they made this ATM withdrawal, to the point where their cell phones shut off to when they're discovered? I know that they were in Rochester Hills and then they were found in Detroit. But do you know what happened in between? Where they were? Where they tried to go?
BOUCHARD: We don't again have a lot of their movements because the last time our detectives actually saw them physically in person was when we executed search warrants on the home when the child in question was the suspect. So we were going to the house to seize anything of evidentiary value to the case at the school, the school shooting. And at that point, there was no indication that the parents may or may not have been involved.
It was purely an execution of a search warrant for evidence related to the shooting. That was the last time our detectives saw them. As soon as the prosecutor gave some indication that there would be potentially charges, our detectives began to do what we call a packet to prepare for if there's charges, where they might go, and began to do what we could to look for them short of what the expanded capabilities are when you have an actual warrant. Either a search or an arrest warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It's kind of an interesting situation with the whole family together in your jail. Do they get to talk to their son?
BOUCHARD: No. No talking. No communication. They're all three in isolation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does that change over time? I mean, it's a minor --
BOUCHARD: No. No. On a variety of levels. First, we would segregate male and female prisoners, and secondly, we would segregate juveniles charged as adult from adults. So on all three levels, they will never be interacting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does the person who called 911 get the reward? CYPHER: So my agency did offer a $10,000 reward for the capture of the
fugitives. So if that person did come forward, gave their name, and we have subsequent information to get back and contact with them, they may be entitled to that reward. That comes through our headquarters office out of Washington, D.C. But ultimately, if the information they provided led to the arrest, which by all indications it did, that person would likely be entitled to a reward.
[16:15:04]
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How much can you speak about the conditions where the gunman is in right now? I know you mentioned isolation. Any further details? How often they're dealing with counselors, check-ups, what's their actual cell conditions?
BOUCHARD: We're checking on them multiple times an hour. You know, in terms of cell conditions, it's clearly a basic environment for one person to be housed and regular observational capabilities. Regular discussions with our medical staff and our counseling staff to see if we need to do or change anything differently, but constant verification and checks on them on behalf of our deputies.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you describe his mental state at this point or anything you've been seeing?
BOUCHARD: Well, again, we have nothing to lead us to believe that anybody has any mental health challenges. So far based on records or information we've uncovered. And again, as they came in through our intake process with our counselors and our classification process they indicate no interest or desire to hurt themselves. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are they facing additional charges now because of what happened yesterday? And secondly, Chief White during the press conference this morning said that they were in the state of distress when officers reached them. Can you talk about that at all?
BOUCHARD: In terms of additional charges again, you know, the form and fashion of where we ended up finding them and how they got there, that totality will be a determination by our prosecutor if there is any applicable extra charges or not, but I think certainly it lends to the original charge that if there's no culpability, why would you go be in a warehouse in Detroit?
In terms of their distress, the chief and I talked about that a bit but I don't want to get too awfully into that. We don't -- you know, it could be distress because they're caught or distress at the totality of the situation. Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Some members of your department had expressed some frustration saying the prosecutor didn't let you know ahead of time these charges were coming. Was your department caught off guard by these charges?
BOUCHARD: Well, we had some disconnect with the prosecutor's office and our chief investigators. We've communicated and that's been handled and we're moving forward to focus on how we together, hand in glove, hold these individuals accountable.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, did Ethan know that his parents were charged and what has his reaction or his demeanor been since they've been captured and while they were I guess being searched for?
BOUCHARD: What was his demeanor?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes.
BOUCHARD: He hasn't said anything to us obviously. None of them are really communicating to a great extent with us. So, you know, his demeanor really hasn't changed. He wouldn't have been made aware that we're searching for his parents since he's in isolation and it's not like we have a TV clicker in his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But does he know his parents are in custody now?
BOUCHARD: I honestly couldn't tell you. My guess is no. It's not something we necessarily would go let him know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, since he's under 16, is there some sort of mandatory education program he'll be attending?
BOUCHARD: Well, that's probably not the first thing on our priority list. Our first thing is to make sure he doesn't hurt himself and that he gets timely court appearances and access to counsel. From that point, you know, other things are secondary and on top of all of that, we have COVID procedures right now. So you know, we have a lot more restrictions in terms of who comes in and out of our facility.
How our educational programs can and cannot be conducted, you know, to prevent mitigation and spread of the virus within a confined facility. It's not like we can widely social distance within, you know, a jail. So.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I can see a lot of the focus has been on the parents since they were on the run. But will there also be an investigation into the school's actions? I mean the prosecutors said that they sent Ethan back to the classroom. He had the gun. Could that become part of the criminal investigation?
BOUCHARD: Well, everything that happened from preceding to that point to after until we stand here today will be under investigation and every tidbit that we learn will be handed over to our prosecutor for again, follow on charges if applicable. She has said that, you know, there may be other charges and that will be again a charging determination by her as it relates to if any of the additional information we present her with rises to that level.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are any of the school officials under investigation?
[16:20:02]
BOUCHARD: Well, I wouldn't say a school official is under any investigation specifically. I would say the situation is, and if there's someone in that process, in that timeline has done something that triggers that criminality, if you will, that's going to be up to the prosecutor. You know, anybody is going to be completely discussed, investigated and determined what happened. And where it leads is where the facts take us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In regards to this person in Detroit, is it known yet what their relationship is to the couple or at least what their relationship is to that building?
BOUCHARD: Yes. We do have indication of both of those things but we're not getting too awfully deep into it until we get it completed and give it to the prosecutor.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, Chief White said that they were not armed.
BOUCHARD: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But we heard during the arraignment that they had taken out $4,000 in cash from an ATM. Was that money found on them? Do you know anything about?
BOUCHARD: I don't have the inventory sheet on what was recovered at the scene yet. So I can't answer that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.
BOUCHARD: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So obviously we still have questions about the school resource officer and the Oxford superintendent issued a detailed statement within the last hour. So in it, he say the counselor made the decision to return Ethan to class. Ethan explained that the drawing that he had was the design for a video game. The question for you, Sheriff, is, was the picture of the drawing taken by the teacher for the counselor so that the counselor would know? Because apparently, Ethan had scratched over the most disturbing part.
BOUCHARD: Yes. I'd have to again pull the investigative jacket to know what the counselor saw at the time and that's part of the investigation, but again, my reaction to the whole process is that if it was concerning to the teacher in the classroom enough ultimately to call in parents, at that point, we would have loved to have been looped in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, the attorneys for the parents said that what's been presented so far has been cherry picked and slanted. Obviously this investigation is still ongoing. There's a lot that we do not know. But has what's been released to the public now, does that paint a fairly, complete, and accurate representation of what happened here?
BOUCHARD: Well, I certainly that's, you know, a part of the picture and we're still, you know, finishing the picture, if you will, and we're filling in the details as we learn them and as we get additional facts. But I certainly also believe that it's accurate.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, the (INAUDIBLE) in that video also said that he was going to ask you to release some video. We don't know what video (INAUDIBLE). Do you know what video?
BOUCHARD: Yes. And no, it's not going to happen. We have extensive video within the school of exactly what played out and how it played out and that is evidence and will be given to the prosecutor for the prosecution and any viewing of that will be dependent on the prosecution as to not obviously prejudice the case or any potential jury pool.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any estimate on how long you'll process the crime scene?
BOUCHARD: We're mostly done with the actual crime scene. We were in there until, I think I was there until about 2:00 in the morning. I think they were done about 3:30-ish?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5:30.
BOUCHARD: Excuse me, I'm losing my time hours because no one's sleeping. About 5:30 in the morning the day after. Most of our forensic examination, our crime scene team, was done in there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And they're right now at the Oakland County Jail facility.
BOUCHARD: Correct. Right here on this campus.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And there's no plans to move them to another location for any other reason?
BOUCHARD: Absolutely not. They're here quite frankly for the duration.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Post-bond or at least for the parents.
BOUCHARD: If they post bond, yes, they would be released. Anyone else?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, the deputies who responded, how are they doing? You know, (INAUDIBLE).
BOUCHARD: Thank you. I was actually going to bring that up. You know, I ask our people to do some very dangerous and difficult things. And we talked about our response capabilities and how we've been training for years for active shooters and that I issue very clear instructions and orders. If I get to an active shooter first, I'm going in. If you get there first, you're going in. And if we get there together, we're both going in. But we're going in.
And our job, once we go in, and their job was, and they did it, was not just to go in, but to go ignore everything else and go to the sound of the gunfire or the chaos because that's the active threat. Because if they stop anywhere to calm a teacher or a student or to render aid, more people could be killed.
[16:25:07]
That's an incredibly unnatural act. To walk past a child that's in panic and terror and may even be hurt. To ignore that because you hear chaos or gun shots. And that's what they did. And as a result, when he was taken into custody, there were some 18 unexpended rounds. And that's what I keep reminding them. Eighteen. Eighteen. Could have been 18 more kids. That's difficult to take in.
So they're struggling. In a big way. And so we have had a complete debrief for everybody that was at the scene. All day yesterday. And I went to every one of those sessions to talk to them, tell them how proud I am of them, and that it's not weakness to ask for help and to get help. That it's important they do that. Their number one job is to make themselves come out of this process in a healthy way.
They'll never be the same. I mean, I was in the scene when there were still children there that were deceased, but those that were going in there when it was happening and they were having to go past them, devastating. And so we had a follow-on session today with some specialists that we had flown in and we're going to do everything we can to help them to try to process this and to try to be able to move forward in a healthy way for themselves, for their family and for the community.
Because I told them that we need them to heal for themselves, their family, and community, but we also need them back out on the front line. I mean, the next day, our folks investigated a threat against a school and made an arrest for somebody that threatened another school. So there's no lack of need for our folks to be able to function well and be able to deal with some of the future threats that we're going to face.
And sadly, we're going to face more. We're inundated with threats right now. We have threats against the candlelight vigil last night. We have threats against memorials. We have threats against individual deputies or law enforcement. It's absolutely absurd that after a tragedy, we see a huge spike in threats, but that's what we're seeing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The vigil (INAUDIBLE). Can you talk about that? Because I interviewed some of the (INAUDIBLE) they said there have been multiple threats to retired police officer there for his (INAUDIBLE), and then of course the person who fainted, collapsed. Was there any loud noise that (INAUDIBLE)? And can you also talk about the threats?
BOUCHARD: There was some specific but non-credible or non-verified threats that came in about that event in a different venue. So obviously you saw very heavy presence from our office. From the village PD. From some of our partners that were there in force. Our helicopter was above. We had react teams there. We felt confident we could and did keep it safe, but people are absolutely terrified.
Their kids are terrified. And so what happened was somebody fell out and we use that term because lots of times when our honor guard is at certain things, if you're standing in a certain way without shifting your weight, your blood tends not to move and you can pass out. You can faint. So people on one corner, and I was on stage, when it began, began to start screaming and that panicked part of the crowd because they didn't know what they were screaming about.
And that's when I took the microphone and said calm down, relax. More people are going to get hurt by running. Nothing's going on. Nothing's wrong. Because that's how raw they are. And it's terrifying to so many people and it's really hurtful that more people are making these threats and I'll put a punctuation on this again. If you make a threat, we're going to investigate it even if it's not credible and even if you don't plan the carry it out and if we find you, and we will find you, we will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law and one of the possible penalties is up to 20 years.
So it's not funny. It's not a way to get out of school. It's a crime. And you're hurting an already struggling community.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: People were running towards the media area where we're all staying and in so much panic.
[16:30:07]
And someone looked at me and they said, someone's been shot.
I think that really sums up the fear --
BOUCHARD: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- of what happened that day.
BOUCHARD: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I saw people collapsing because they were so upset and they were so raw and just on edge.
BOUCHARD: Right. No question. I was there as well. And I was giving out a lot of hugs before and after.
You know, without almost exception, everybody that came up just was looking for some reassurance. And when we hugged, they were emotional.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you have to say to the parents, Oxford parents or parents of the victims now that all three are in the jail right now?
BOUCHARD: That the intent is and the plan is and the anticipation is that the prosecutor and I are working hand in glove to hold them accountable.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now that yesterday we heard a lot of details come out about this relationship between parents and Ethan. And in same respect, it's been days later since you executed the search warrant on the home.
Have you noticed or found any other evidence in the home? Anything that would have pointed or indicated to this happening? Any sort of -- any red flags?
BOUCHARD: Again, I'm not going to get too awfully specific because we're transitioning to the trial portion.
But as we had said and as the prosecutors said, we have clear evidence this was pre premeditated and he was actually looking forward to it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, do you have police presence when the kids go back to school?
BOUCHARD: Absolutely. I don't know if you were here for the other press conference we had about these unrelated threats, and every police chief pretty much in county was here. We're all united in doing everything we can to bring some calm, assure parents and students that we're going to be there. We're going to make the school safe.
But we've got to get them back to some semblance of normalcy. It's going to be difficult.
And the same thing goes for students and teachers and parents. You're struggling with this. Find a path to get help. Whether it's a chaplain or whether it's a priest or a rabbi or A counselor, whatever the case may be, find a path to deal with this in a healthy fashion.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any update on the health of the injured?
BOUCHARD: The last update, we'll put it out. Most were improving pretty well. But I'll check to see if there's anything new today.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you go in any more detail as to the moment when officers encountered the shooter that day?
BOUCHARD: Sure. There were two of our deputies that were moving down that hall together, seeking out the threat. And as they came into the that hallway, they observed the subject and he basically gave up. I'm not going to get too awfully specific, but he gave up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did he give up as soon as he saw them?
BOUCHARD: As they were approaching, he put his hands up.
And you know, I'll say this. When we see most of these around the country, my opinion is these people are evil and they're cowards. They either typically usually give up or commit suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So as the officers were walking in -- and maybe you can speak about this to the training. Did the shooter have the gun, did he have the weapon in his hand? Did they notice the weapon in his hand?
BOUCHARD: As they were approaching him, the weapon was put to the ground and he put his hands up. I'm not going to get too awfully specific to the precursors and post cursors on that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There was no opportunity for them to even say, drop the gun, then engage if they needed to.
BOUCHARD: He gave up pretty much as soon as they -- one of the deputies called out "gun," and he gave up.
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.
ACOSTA: And that was the Oakland County sheriff just wrapping up a press conference a few moments ago.
We heard some new information about this case of school shooting suspect, Ethan Crumbley.
The sheriff there saying, just a few moments ago, they have clear evidence that Ethan was acting in a premeditated way on the day of that school shooting. And he was quote, "looking forward to it."
Sheriff was also explaining to reporters there that, yes, Ethan is in the same jail as his parents and that's going to be the case. They have no plans to have moving the parents to another facility.
[16:35:00]
And that they're all on a suicide watch right now. That is a standard operating procedure in these types of cases, as the sheriff was laying out to reporters just a few moments ago.
Joining us now to talk about this, CNN law enforcement analyst, Anthony Barksdale. He's the former acting police commissioner in Baltimore. And also joining us is CNN legal analyst and civil rights attorney, Areva Martin.
Anthony, let me start with you.
What stood out to you the most during this press conference? Obviously, they don't have a case to make. This is -- seems fairly airtight, but some of the details are very troubling.
ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: In my opinion, Sheriff Bouchard just delivered one of the best press conference interviews that I've ever seen.
He addressed the concerns that I had between the prosecutor and his staff not being on the same page. He said they're now hand in glove, which is so vital when you still have to put together a prosecutable case against parents and their child.
So it's a lot of work to do, but I'm optimistic after this presser.
ACOSTA: And, Areva, do you expect there to be additional charges filed against these parents?
And what did you think of what the sheriff was saying there that there may have been somebody aiding and abetting here? Sounds like these parents had some help and that may lead to some charges in all of this.
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm really surprised, Jim, to hear that. When you think about what happened yesterday, all the inconsistent statements we received throughout the day from the attorneys, talk of they were on their way to turn themselves in.
There was miscommunication between the attorneys and the prosecutors, the attorneys and the sheriff's office.
It never made sense. Never credible in my opinion. And it always appeared these two individuals were on the run. That they were evading police and that they had no intentions of turning themselves in.
Now to hear that they were, you know, miles away from this courthouse, that they were hiding in a commercial building, that they had taken money of their ATM account all makes sense.
It makes perfectly good sense that these individuals were trying to evade police capture and that they did have assistance.
I hope, to the extent that there's someone involved, they are also held accountable for their actions.
As the sheriff said, there was an act of warrant for these individuals. It was publicly made known. So anyone who obstructed justice or aided and abetted these individuals from evading police themselves should be held accountable.
ACOSTA: And, Anthony, this talk where there was a miscommunication with the parents and so on. You know, I mean, come on. Give me a break.
They withdraw $4,000 according to law enforcement. Withdraw $4,000 then turn their phones off then there's a miscommunication? Come on.
BARKSDALE: Jim, nobody's buying it. The courts and defense attorneys do what they do. Understand, they have a right in the United States to have representation.
But I'm with you 100 percent. This made no sense. And I believe, as everyone else, it appears that they may have been -- they were on the run.
ACOSTA: And, Areva, this third person that may have helped them to enter that building, I guess one of the issues that -- I don't know if it got addressed during that press conference -- is that person going to face charges? And you know, do we know where that person is?
Obviously, I mean, that person is going to have to potentially be brought in.
MARTIN: It sure sounds like, Jim, the sheriff's office already knows a lot about this person, who they are, if they have a prior relationship with the two parents. And there's an active investigation. And the sheriff made it pretty
clear that if the evidence leads you know, to a prosecutable charge, that they're going to turn it over to the prosecutors, and that individual, if it's one or multiple people, will be held accountable.
When you think about what these parents did, how they're re- traumatizing this community, the stories we were told yesterday about their desire to comply with police.
Absolutely atrocious what they did in terms of how they assisted their son in having access to this gun. And then to try to evade police capture.
I think, as everyone feels, they definitely need to be held accountable. And anyone that assisted them needs to be held accountable as well.
ACOSTA: Anthony, what about this conversation that law enforcement should have had more surveillance on the parents? I guess it has something to do with what Bouchard was saying about working hand in glove with the prosecutor's office.
But this is such a new wrinkle in these types of cases. The fact that these parents are being charged.
I mean, do you think it was OK for the sheriff's office potentially to have assumed they would have shown up in court? What are your thoughts?
[16:40:06]
BARKSDALE: I think it was --
(CROSSTALK)
BARKSDALE: No. I think it was a fumble.
But based on what we just heard from this sheriff, they've recovered their fumble and they're going to keep going.
So if it wasn't acceptable, in my opinion -- I've dealt with it numerous times during my career where you invest resources to conduct surveillance on individuals that you know may soon face serious charges.
Just put the manpower there. They're plain-clothed detectives out in their cars. If you want to put patrol vehicles out front and back of the house. You keep your eyes on them.
But, look, we got lucky. We found them. A tip came through in Detroit. Detroit jumped. The Marshals jumped. FBI jumped. They all jumped and they got him. So we got lucky here, but let's not fumble again with this case.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. And, Areva, what about the bond being set in this case for the
parents? I mean, obviously, the judge is not messing around here. That bond amount is pretty high. Half a million dollars.
Why not just hold them without the possibility of posting bond?
MARTIN: That's always a question that a court has to consider, Jim. The question is the seriousness of the crimes they've been charged with. The probability of success by the prosecutor. And then the issue of flight risk.
We heard the defense attorneys try to make some argument that these individuals were just trying to get their finances together. That they had every intention of turning themselves in.
They were going to meet this morning at 7:30 and drive over to the courthouse and turn themselves in. None of it was believable.
The judge didn't believe it. She set a bond that's essentially a million dollars. That's $500,000 apiece for each of them.
And then gave some pretty stringent conditions, even if they are able to come up with that amount of money, in terms of having to wear an electronic bracelet, having to report to the court, and to make their whereabouts known at all times if they are released.
But the judge took this case very seriously, as it should be taken seriously. And these are serious charges. In the state of Michigan, involuntary manslaughter carries up to 15 years in prison.
And there are four counts against each of these individuals.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. No question about it.
I think this is a case that is going to, you know, I think send a message to parents across the country. You could be held accountable for this. And you know, these parents are going to be sitting in jail under suicide watch for some time.
You know, I think that their sheriff's departments across the country seeing this going, OK, maybe the next time something like this happens in our community, this is the way to go.
Anthony Barksdale, Areva Martin, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
MARTIN: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:05]
ACOSTA: Former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, is using his new memoir to whitewash the January 6th attack at the capitol. In the book, called "The Chief's Chief," Meadows claims the deadly
insurrection was orchestrated by a small group of people and a handful of fanatics.
Keep in mind, though, roughly 2,000 people breached the capitol and nearly 700 have been charged.
Meadows also writing, quote, "Trump did not call for violence and he did not expect anyone would enter the capitol building."
Even though Trump himself said this on January 6th:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy.
And after this, we're going to walk down -- and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down --
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: We're going to walk down -- any one you want, but I think right here. But we're going to walk down to the capitol.
We're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: And we're going to the capitol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: CNN reporter, Marshall Cohen, is following the story.
Marshall, the books is called "The Chief's Chief." Could be called "The Chief Cheats." Mark Meadows doing a little CYA here, cover your autocrat.
What are your thoughts? What's your reporting on what Meadows is doing here?
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Well, it's a very sycophantic book. It's 100 percent pro-Trump. He says he wants Trump to run again in 2024.
But besides all the politics, there's a lot of important stuff that will be of interest to the January 6th investigation.
So make no mistake, he is totally pedaling the Big Lie. Still. There's a lot of stuff in this book.
We obtained a copy and we read through a lot of it yesterday. A lot of stuff in here that is still pushing the same debunked claims about ballot irregularities and voter fraud that has no merit to it whatsoever. Then, on January 6th, he's trying to absolve President Trump of any
responsibility.
You just showed the clip where Trump said, "We're going to the capitol."
Meadows actually revealed something quite interesting in this book about what Trump said to him after he got off that stage.
I'll read you a quote from the book. It says:
"When he got off stage, President Trump let me know that he had been speaking metaphorically about the walk to the capitol. He knew as well as anyone that we couldn't organize a trip like that on such short notice. It was clear the whole time that he didn't actually intend to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue with the crowd."
Jim, they're washing their hands of this.
But the rioters themselves, in many of these cases, when interviewed by the FBI, they said they really believed Trump. And some never planned to go to the capitol but they changed their plans and decided to do it after Trump said exactly that.
ACOSTA: I covered Trump for a long time. I never heard him use the word, metaphorically.
But it makes you wonder, Marshall, if he's still pedaling the Big Lie, why should we believe anything in this book? It's a book for one reader, I suppose, the Dear Leader.
[16:50:04]
COHEN: It might be for one reader but there will be other readers on the January 6th committee in the House. They are looking at this book.
Remember, Meadows is someone who got a subpoena. He'll be going in to testify on a few specific topics. They want him to talk about everything.
They're saying now, some of the Democrats on that committee, they've said, if you can write about it in a book for profit, you can talk about it under oath for our investigation.
ACOSTA: Yes, what happened? I thought there was executive privilege. This book, didn't they do that to John Bolton? You can't put this book out, it's executive privilege.
COHEN: History repeating itself.
ACOSTA: Yes. A lot of rewriting of this history, too.
Marshall Cohen, thanks so much.
And we're learning President Biden will speak with Russian President Putin on Tuesday amid growing tensions over Russia's military buildup at its border with Ukraine.
U.S. intelligence shows Russia is ramping up their show of force at the border and could amass up to 175,000 troops there. That's prompting fears Russia could launch a military offensive in Ukraine within weeks.
CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, is at the White House.
Joe, Moscow, the Kremlin rearing its ugly head again. Russia's leaders have the country of Ukraine on edge, and I guess the White House, too.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's for sure.
In fact, just underscoring that, Jim, we got a statement a few minutes ago from Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, about the video call that's going to be held between Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin now scheduled on Tuesday.
I'll just read this statement. It says:
"The president is going to hold a secure video call with Putin on December 7th. The leaders will discuss a range of topics and the U.S./Russia relationship, including strategic stability, cyber and regional issues."
"President Biden says he will underscore concerns are Russian military activities on the border with Ukraine and reaffirm the U.S. support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine."
So, you know, we just got this intelligence report that came out this week -- first reported by "The Washington Post," confirmed by CNN -- indicating that as many as 70,000 Russian military personnel are on the Ukraine border and that number could go up to 175,000.
The question, of course, is whether Vladimir Putin is planning on invading Ukraine or if this is just some sort of a military exercise or perhaps saber rattling. The answer to that question is not clear.
But what we do know is that Putin has, in fact, expressed almost obsessive interest with Ukraine. He sees it as a part of Russia. Also, he's been warning that Ukraine should not join NATO.
And the United States issuing its own warnings that Russia will be subject to economic sanctions if it invades.
The president, on departure to Camp David this weekend, was asked what he will do if Russia invades Ukraine. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've been aware of Russia's actions for a long time and my expectation is we're going to have a long discussion with Putin.
(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you accept Putin's red line?
BIDEN: I won't accept anybody's red line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: A lot that's not clear here, Jim, it's pretty clear Russia is trying to create uncertainty, even in its troop movements.
Back to you.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. Not surprising there.
All right, Joe Johns, thank you so much.
Three months after Hurricane Ida barreled through Louisiana, a rural community is pulling itself out of the destruction and despair with some help from Habitat for Humanity.
It's today's "IMPACT YOUR WORLD."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENNY ALEXIE, JEAN LAFITTE, LOUISIANA: It took me 40 years to get where I was at and to see that it only took a matter of hours to lose it all.
MAYOR TIM KERNER JR (R-JEAN LAFITTE, LA): Hurricane Ida was our Hurricane Katrina. It completely devastated our community. A big portion became homeless overnight.
The decision to build levers all around us. It leaves all the water here. People don't have insurance, the price of insurance. Don't qualify for FEMA. They need funds. People to build their homes and put their roofs back together.
MARGUERITE OESTREICHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NEW ORLEANS HABITAT FOR HUMANITY: We started distributing tarps to people to prevent further damage, but that's not where Habitat really shines. It's long-term recovery and helping people figure out a path to rebuilding.
The amount of work to be done, it's just overwhelming. So the piece where volunteers fit in, those are the extra hands. Those are the people who can come in. They can muck and gut.
They don't have to be skilled carpenters in order to be helpful.
DENNIS KEHOE, CORE VOLUNTEER, HABITAT FOR HUMANITY: I've been a volunteer since 1991. It's not just building houses, but a ministry, to teach people about volunteering and community involvement.
[16:54:59]
ALEXIE: This didn't just happen to me. So it's -- it's heartbreaking to see your whole community go down like this. But like some of the signs says, we're going to rebuild and we'll be better. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
