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Chris Cuomo Terminated From CNN, Effective Immediately; Parents Of Alleged Michigan Shooter Arrested After Manhunt; Biden And Putin To Discuss Russian Troop Buildup Near Ukraine; Interview With Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA); Omicron Variant May Include Genetic Code Linked To Common Cold; Biden Announces New Measures To Combat Omicron Variant. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 04, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:22]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The parents of Michigan's school shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley in Court, each charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you pleading to count one?

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY, MOTHER OF MICHIGAN SCHOOL SHOOTING SUSPECT: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you pleading to count four?

JAMES CRUMBLEY, FATHER OF MICHIGAN SCHOOL SHOOTING SUSPECT: Not guilty.

MARIELL LEHMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JENNIFER AND JAMES CRUMBLEY: The facts that have been presented by Miss McDonald and her office have been cherry picked to further her narrative of making an example of Mr. And Mrs. Crumbley.

KAREN MCDONALD, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY OF OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: To suggest that anyone is somehow using this incident to create press, there is a lot of attention here because four children were murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the Omicron variant is detected in more U.S. states, new travel rules set to take effect Monday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We really don't want to ban people in countries, we want to keep cases out. And so buffing up testing and having testing done before travel and then again after travel makes a lot of sense.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest U.S. Intel we just heard, just reported saying there could be up to 175,000 Russian troops there put in place for any plan to invade Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what they're going to do, but I am very, very concerned about their posture. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, rare blizzard warning has been issued for the

Big Island of Hawaii where more snow has fallen this winter season than in Denver, Colorado.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington, Pamela Brown has the day off, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we start this hour with breaking news.

CNN anchor, now former CNN anchor Chris Cuomo formally terminated by this network effective immediately. That announcement coming from a CNN corporate news released just a short time ago, and fallout is from an even deeper investigation we are learning into how Chris Cuomo helped his brother, the former Governor of New York, who is accused of sexual harassment.

Now, there is a lot of new information here, so I want to go straight to CNN chief media correspondent and anchor of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter. He is here with me to go through it all. Obviously, this is fast moving and breaking right now. But Brian, it seems what it comes down to is that as journalists, there are simply lines that you cannot cross, family or no, is that right?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That is hat's absolutely right, and this has been a long time coming. Now, CNN stood by Chris Cuomo in May when he acknowledged that he was having conversations with his brother's aides. CNN said that was inappropriate, and that would stop.

He said he stopped communicating to those aides at that point. Then there were further revelations in August around the time Andrew Cuomo eventually resigned as Governor of New York, Chris went on the air and said, "I'm not an adviser, I'm a brother." He said he was putting family first.

And that put a lot of CNN colleagues, a lot of CNN journalists in a very awkward position. There was a discomfort back then about the situation, but CNN kept Cuomo on the air. He continued to anchoring his program, and he had a lot of fans who wanted to see him on the air.

But what changed this week, Phil, is the release of a report by the New York Attorney General. Letitia James put out documents, thousands of them, text messages, sworn testimony, some of the underlying material of her investigation into Andrew Cuomo, and among those text messages were lots of messages involving Chris Cuomo and the exact conversations he was having with the governor's aides and allies.

Some of those showed that Chris Cuomo was acting basically as an unpaid staffer. He was in the virtual war room trying to defend his brother in ways that were journalistically improper. So here is the statement from CNN tonight, saying he's been fired, quote, "Chris Cuomo was suspended earlier this week when that report came out, pending further evaluation of new information that came to light about his involvement with his brother's defense. We retained a respected law firm to conduct the review, and have terminated him effective immediately."

"While in the process of that review, additional information has come to light. Despite the termination, we will investigate as appropriate."

So two notes there. Number one, we didn't know there was a law firm involved until today. That is notable. Number two, additional information has come to light. We don't know what that is. Presumably, CNN management knows what that is, but the newsroom does not and nobody else does either.

Now, we know that Cuomo was notified of this earlier today, I reached out to him for comment, and here is what he said to me in a text message, quote: "This is not how I want my time at CNN to end, but I've already told you why and how I helped my brother. So let me now say, as disappointing as this is, I could not be more proud of the team at 'Cuomo Prime Time' and the work we did as CNN's number one show in the most competitive time slot."

He says, "I owe them all and will miss that group of special people who did really important work."

This is certainly a complex situation. You have some CNN staffers who wanted Cuomo forced out, you had others who believed he deserved a second chance. Ultimately, there were so many headaches here, so many journalistic fouls that the management decided it was untenable for him to remain with the company.

[18:05:02]

STELTER: You know television anchors do come and go, Phil, but Cuomo was a larger than life presence on this network and there's going to be a lot of feelings about this decision, I think, in the days to come.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no question about it, Brian. Obviously, this just happened a short while ago, it's still breaking and evolving, and as the minutes go on. But do we have at this point in time, any idea of what will happen to that kind of coveted primetime time slot on CNN?

STELTER: Right, 9:00 PM is the highest rated hour across a lot of cable news. It's true not just here at CNN, but MSNBC as well. Cuomo was a prominent presence in primetime, so his absence is a big deal as well.

We know as viewers saw Anderson Cooper filling in this week at nine; next week, Michael Smerconish was already lined up to fill in while Cuomo was suspended. So Smerconish will be anchoring this coming week.

You know, it's interesting, just from a television dynamics point of view here, Rachel Maddow is also on the way out of MSNBC at 9:00 PM. So there's this big vacancy at 9:00 PM now. That's going to be a television news insider story, but the more important outsider story, the reason this matters to everybody is that viewers need to be able to trust what they're hearing here on television, when we're covering a sensitive story, even if it involves the family member of a colleague.

This case was very, very complicated, and now, in some ways, Phil, it has been made a lot less complicated, because Cuomo has been terminated.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no, that's absolutely for sure. All right, Brian Stelter, thanks so much. I know you probably have a long night ahead of you. I appreciate the time.

All right, and now to Michigan and the first court appearance by the parents of the accused school shooter. James and Jennifer Crumbley were arraigned via video conference this morning. Both entered not guilty pleas to the four charges of involuntary manslaughter filed against them.

Jennifer Crumbley cried when acknowledging the charges. This exclusive video you see right here shows the couple taken into custody early this morning after an hour's long manhunt. Now, a tip led police to a Detroit warehouse after the Crumbley's failed to turn themselves in on Friday.

Their attorney, well, says it's simply a misunderstanding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON SMITH, ATTORNEY FOR JENNIFER AND JAMES CRUMBLEY: Last night, and throughout the day, we were in contact with our clients. They were scared, they were terrified. They were not at home. They were figuring out what to do, getting finances in order. But our clients were absolutely going to turn themselves in. It was just a matter of logistics and all the prosecution had to do was communicate with me about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now a short time ago, the Sheriff overseeing the case is a person who may have helped the couple hide could face charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF MICHAEL BOUCHARD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: We believe they were assisted in that location to get there, to get in, and we're gathering that information. And we're going to have the totality of that done fairly soon, and present that to our prosecutor for potential charges for either aiding and abetting or obstruction of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, the couple's son, 15- year-old, Ethan, was arrested Tuesday and faces multiple charges, including four first degree murder counts. Four students were killed in the Oxford high school shooting, and seven others were injured. I want to discuss some of the legal and law enforcement aspects of

this case and to help me do that, joining me now CNN senior law enforcement analyst, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey; and CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan. He is both an experienced criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.

And Paul, I want to start with you because I think I've been struck, and also, most people have by the Crumbley's defense attorneys kind of going on offense over the course of the last day or so essentially blaming prosecutors and law enforcement for their clients' fearing for safety, the same clients that were hiding in Detroit, in a warehouse.

Now as a defense attorney, when you watch what their attorneys are doing right now, do you feel like that's a smart approach at this point?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I think they're really going a bit overboard on this. I mean, it's one thing, of course, if you're defending somebody, you're always going to maintain that they're innocent and they're being treated unfairly. But to try to turn them into the victims in a case where, you know, four high school kids have been gunned down presumably by their son. That's a bit of an overreach, I would say to say the least.

MATTINGLY: Yes. And it's striking. I understand, the court of public opinion matters to some attorneys, but it's hard not to notice what they are trying to do.

Commissioner Ramsey, now, the prosecutor held a news conference yesterday before alerting the Sheriff's Office that she was filing the charges. I think there seems to be a little bit of a dispute there behind the scenes. Do you feel like that was a mistake?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, it was clearly a miscommunication there. You know, normally, you don't have a press conference announcing charges until you either have the people in custody or a cop is actually looking right at them and can take them immediately into custody. So, there was clearly a miscommunication.

I think after the Sheriff's press conference today, that has all been cleared up now, and the real focus ought to on the four individuals that lost their lives and the families that are now planning a funeral as opposed to buying Christmas presents for those kids.

I mean, that's what's important. The rest of this stuff is background noise.

[18:10:12]

MATTINGLY: Yes. No, there is no question about that. Paul, you know, the parents are facing right now, four counts of involuntary manslaughter. But, you know, if you look back over time, there is usually -- there is a reason, I think why a lot of cases like this haven't been brought in past shootings. As a former prosecutor, how tough is it to build the case against the parents here? CALLAN: It's extraordinarily difficult, and this obviously is to send

a message indictment and the DA herself said that really at a press conference, she was trying to send a message with the indictment. But you have to be able to prove an indictment also, and there are two things you have to prove in an involuntary manslaughter case.

One, that there was gross negligence in what something that the parents did. Now, they're going to say, they didn't lock the weapon up carefully enough, and a 15-year-old kid got a hold of the weapon. Number two, though, you have to prove that that caused the death of the victims involved, and that is where they're going to have the problem, because obviously, it was their son who caused the death of the individuals involved by pulling the trigger on that gun, and the parents are now saying that they had locked the gun up.

So presumably, the defense of trial is going to be that the 15-year- old had figured out a way around the locking system for wherever the gun was being kept. So, there are a lot of potential defenses here that are going to give the prosecutor a great deal of difficulty, and will establish why it's very rare that these kinds of charges are brought against parents.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no, it would be fascinating to watch how this portion of everything plays out.

Commissioner Ramsey, the defense attorneys here are challenging the claim that the alleged gun used in the shooting was a Christmas gift. Now, they say that as Paul policy was saying, the gun was kept under lock and key. How central are these claims to proving their role in this if you're the prosecution?

RAMSEY: Well, I would think it's pretty essential. But again, you know, I believe there is evidence to show that they bought it as a Christmas gift. There is text messages from the mother there. You know, when her and Ethan were at the range shooting, and those kinds of things. And as far as it being secured, obviously, it wasn't secured well enough. The kid got the gun, took it to school, and committed the homicides.

I mean, so you know, how secure could it have been? Obviously, not enough.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it is going to be interesting to watch how this plays out. But as you guys said before, victims are what matters more than anything else. Charles Ramsey and Paul Callan, thanks so much.

And we'll be speaking to the Oakland County Michigan Sheriff Michael Bouchard about the case in our 8:00 PM Eastern hour, so stay tuned for that.

Now, President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, they plan to talk via video conference on Tuesday about an alarming buildup of Russian troops on the Ukraine border.

Today, the U.S. Army Chief of Staff estimated about 100,000 Russian soldiers are already there, and it is believed, another 75,000 could join them. President Biden warned on Friday that he would make it quote "very, very difficult" for Russia to launch an invasion.

CNN's Joe Johns joins me now from the White House, and Joe, Ukraine is clearly worried at this point that a Russian offensive is possible. How concerned are American officials that this could happen in a matter of months?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: They are concerned about it and they don't know exactly what's going on. But first, I have to say that Jen Psaki, the White House Press Secretary put out a statement just a little while ago, confirming as did Kremlin already has that Putin and President Biden will have their video call on Tuesday, and one of the big topics of conversation will be that tens of thousands of Russian troops massing on the Ukraine border.

The key question is whether Vladimir Putin is planning an invasion of Ukraine, or if this could be something else. It's just not clear. But what is clear is that Putin is very concerned about the possibility of Ukraine going into NATO. He says he doesn't want that to happen.

President Biden on departure today or this weekend to Camp David was asked what he would do if Russia invaded Ukraine. He really didn't answer the question, but he didn't say this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've been aware of Russia's actions for a long time. And my expectation is we are going to have a long discussion with Putin.

QUESTION: Do you accept Putin's red line on Ukraine?

BIDEN: I won't accept anybody's red line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: There's a U.S. Intel report out that indicates one of the reasons why it so hard to figure out what the Russians are doing is because they're moving the troops around in such a way as to hide their motivations.

Back to you, Phil.

[18:15:03]

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a big open question, what's the intent here? Is it messaging? Is it geopolitical positioning? Or is an invasion possible or probable?

Joe Johns, on it, as always. Thank you very much, my friend.

All right, and still ahead this hour, a blizzard warning for the Big Island of Hawaii while the mainland suffers a rare snow drought. Then next hour, an incredible origin story behind Merck's groundbreaking antiviral COVID pill. One of the doctors who helped develop the new treatment joins me live. Before that, I'll ask Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren about the

former Trump administration officials stonewalling January 6th investigation. She joins me live, in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In the January 6th investigation, more delays and clear signs that members of the previous administration are looking to deny Congress more answers.

Former Trump D.O.J. official, Jeffrey Clark was supposed to take testified today. He is already facing a potential contempt of Congress charge, but a medical issue will keep him from appearing until later this month and even then, he has made clear he is likely to invoke his Fifth Amendment protection.

[18:30:10]

MATTINGLY: And on Friday, we learned that lawyer John Eastman, who plotted to have then Vice President Mike Pence interrupt the vote certification also plans to ignore the panel's questions. And then there's Mark Meadows, former President Trump's last Chief of Staff, a little bit of a wild card here. He is expected to testify next week and has been, to some degree, cooperating, but that could change if there is disagreement on what is considered privileged information.

And on Tuesday, of course, his new book drops, but it doubles down on the big lie. It whitewashes the insurrection. Let me read you an example.

"The idea together on January 6 was organic, and it wasn't until the President said that he wanted to address the various groups that the plans came together. But before the final word came down from Congress that the election was settled. He wanted to make sure that all those people he had met over his four years, the ones who had shown up at every rally, listened to his speeches, and had written him letters about their frustrations with the establishment would have one more chance to make their voices heard and encourage each other."

"He did not call for violence and he did not expect that anyone would enter the Capitol Building."

Democratic Congressman Zoe Lofgren of California sits on the Select Committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining me.

When you hear excerpts like that from the Mark Meadows's book, what goes through your mind as somebody who was there in the Capitol on January 6th?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Well, it doesn't match the reality that I saw and experienced nor the evidence that we are accumulating. But you know, we'll get to the bottom of this. We'll get all the facts, and we will present it all to the American people and inform ourselves as to what legislation should be adopted to make sure this never happens again. MATTINGLY: Obviously, there's been a lot of attention on Mark

Meadows's book. Your fellow committee member, Congressman Adam Schiff says Meadows's new book raises questions about the very claims of executive privilege he has been planning to present. How much do you believe he'll cooperate when he is expected to testify next week?

LOFGREN: Well, we'll see. He has acknowledged through his attorney that clearly there are questions that would have really, in your wildest dreams could not be connected with any claim of executive privilege.

I haven't read the book. It's not out yet. But you can't talk about things that you claim are privileged in another form and refuse to talk about it with the Congress. So, we'll see whether he has waived any claims.

And also privilege is -- the holder of the privilege is the President of the United States, not the former President, and President Biden has indicated in other settings that it is so important to get to the bottom of this that he would not countenance an assertion of executive privilege relative to this investigation, for the most part.

Now, when Mark Meadows comes in, we will ask him a series of questions and if he has any issue with them, they have to be raised on a question by question basis, and then we'll make a decision of whether they're valid or not.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and obviously the President's Counsel's Office has not been remotely subtle about what you just raised in terms of the current President's position.

I'm interested. Steve Bannon is now formally charged with contempt of Congress, yet witnesses like Eastman and Clark are planning to defy essentially the Committee. Why do you think that is at this point?

LOFGREN: Well, Mr. Clark came in and essentially blew us off, refused to answer any questions and left the deposition. We wanted to give them another chance. And ultimately, after a series of very long, in some extent, weird letters received by his lawyers, he did indicate that he would come in and that he had a Fifth Amendment right, which is interesting.

It's worth reading the Fifth Amendment. No person shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness against himself. So, I guess he believes that there's a criminal case against him, which is extraordinary.

Now, again, he has to assert any Fifth Amendment privilege on a question by question basis, and of course, the Committee does have the option of granting him use immunity if we want, if we think that's appropriate.

So he was supposed to come in today. He had a health issue. We were skeptical frankly given his recalcitrance, but we have been assured and we agree that his health excuse is legit. And so we will see him, we hope on the 16th. [18:25:17]

LOFGREN: As for Mr. Eastman, same thing. I mean, we will be asking him questions. If he thinks that his behavior would result in a criminal prosecution, he has a chance to assert his Fifth Amendment rights, and then we have an opportunity to decide whether to grant him immunity in order to compel his testimony.

So, we shall see. We're working very hard. It's worth remembering that about 250 witnesses have already come in, many who were employed during the Trump administration. So these high-profile cases, obviously are in the news. But meanwhile, the Committee and our staff are plugging along, putting together the information.

MATTINGLY: Yes, as one of your colleagues told me last week, there is a lot going on underneath the water that we aren't all seeing at this point in time.

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thanks so much for your time on a Saturday. I really appreciate it.

LOFGREN: You bet.

MATTINGLY: All right, one of the nation's top doctors says omicron could become the dominant coronavirus variant in the U.S. We all have a lot of questions right now. So, Dr. Jonathan Reiner will join us next to answer them. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:57]

MATTINGLY: A new study says the Omicron variant might be more infectious than past strains because it has copied part of the genetic code for the common cold which is also a coronavirus. CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner is a Professor of Medicine at George Washington University.

Dr. Reiner, you always helped answer most of my questions. We knew there would be mutations, but what does it mean that Omicron has a 'stolen genetic code' from the common colds? Does that make it more dangerous?

JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Maybe not. It might make it more transmissible. Interesting story that suggests that in a patient who was co-infected with both a coronavirus that causes the common cold and SARS-CoV-2 that the COVID virus might have mutated and borrowed a little piece of the genetic information from the cold virus, perhaps augmenting its transmissibility.

But sometimes when a virus becomes significantly more transmissible, it becomes less virulent, less dangerous and so let's hope that's the case. There are some early indications from South Africa and Israel that that might actually be the case. But we'll know more about that over the next few weeks.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Have to wait for the data to come in. A break, that would be nice.

REINER: Right.

MATTINGLY: South Africa's COVID-19 cases though Dr. Renner, they've nearly quadrupled in just the last four days and Omicron is being blamed for fueling a lot or most of that surge. But most of the cases to your point have reportedly been mild.

Now, I understand this is anecdotal. It's not full studies yet. Everybody I talked to here says they need a lot more information. But what is what you're seeing right now telling you to the degree you can learn anything from this information?

REINER: So we're looking for a few things. First of all, we're looking to see what happens to hospitalizations. Now, as people get COVID-19 hospitalizations are going to increase. But you want to look at the pace of hospitalizations relative to prior spikes and get a sense for whether more people are being hospitalized or people have been hospitalized quicker or there are more ICU admissions.

And right now in South Africa, that doesn't quite appear to be the case. Hospitalizations are certainly rising. Rates of infection are really skyrocketing in South Africa. But one thing to remember is that South Africa had very little Delta prior to the emergence of Omicron. So it was very fertile ground plus they had about 75 percent of the population had not been vaccinated.

So there was a lot of opportunity for a new variant to take hold and take hold very quickly. So we'll have to see what happens in a place like the United States where almost 60 percent of the population is fully vaccinated now and in Western Europe where rates are about the same to see how that changes the mix and what happens to hospitalization rates. As infections go up, people are going to get hospitalized.

But the other thing to remember is that the people at most risk of the most serious complications, the elderly, in the United States are overwhelmingly vaccinated and protected.

MATTINGLY: I want to get to at least one or two viewer questions here.

REINER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Because I put out the word, the first one is, "Will there be boosters for 12 to 17-year-olds? It has been more than six months since my teen got their second shot."

REINER: Right. Probably, but there are a couple of unknowns. First of all, we know that for most of the age groups, at least for all the age groups studied the efficacy of the vaccine does appear to decline after six months. The question is does it decline at the same pace for 12 to 17-year-olds who have very robust immune systems, we'll have to see.

The other piece of that puzzle is understanding if, particularly with the mRNA vaccines, is there any hazard to boosting a 12-year-old or 15-year-old, any hazard in terms of the risk of something like myocarditis.

[18:35:02]

REINER: Probably not. And also what is the correct dose to boost an adolescent. And only clinical trials can answer these questions. They're ongoing. My guess is that we will be boosting at some point this winter 12 to 17-year-olds.

MATTINGLY: Okay. Dr. Reiner, I appreciate it as always. I think we're going to ask you a couple questions during the break too, I'll tweet them out, because we got plenty. I mentioned your name people respond. Dr. Reiner, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

MATTINGLY: All right. A majority of Americans want Roe v. Wade to be left alone. But after this week's huge Supreme Court hearing, time could be running out on the nation's long standing abortion law. A. B. Stoddard and Larry Sabato join me next to discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:21]

MATTINGLY: The Supreme Court consider this week one of the country's most polarizing issues, abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT ASSOCIATE JUSTICE: As I understand it, you're arguing that the constitution is silent and therefore neutral on the question of abortion?

JUSTICE ELENA KAGAN, SUPREME COURT ASSOCIATE JUSTICE: Usually, there has to be a justification, a strong justification in the case this, beyond the fact that you think the case is wrong.

JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS, SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE: If it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?

JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER, SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE: To re-examine a watershed decision, would subvert the court's legitimacy beyond any serious question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, the court's conservative majority looks likely to uphold Mississippi's ban on abortions after 15 weeks and potentially overturn Roe v. Wade altogether. A ruling is expected in June and it could trigger immediate bans in 21 states affecting 100 million Americans and just before the 2022 midterms. That's what we're going to talk about.

Joining us now to discuss, Associate Editor and Columnist of Real Clear Politics A.B. Stoddard and Larry Sabato of University of Virginia's Center for Politics. A.B., I want to start with you on abortion. A recent poll from

Quinnipiac University found over 60 percent of Americans say they agree with Roe v. Wade, including 65 percent of independents. And yet I'm often skeptical of predictions about what's going to drive turnout or what's going to excite one side or the other, particularly this far in advance of the midterms. Do you think if the court does decide to restrict abortion ahead of the midterms, it will have a tangible effect in terms of turnout?

A. B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR & COLUMNIST, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: I do. I just don't think we know how large it will be. I mean, what Larry and I are watching in the coming months is whether or not this increases energy on the ground, and also obviously increases donations.

It doesn't really seem like the electorate, although they were off year elections in Virginia and New Jersey and a few others on the 2nd of November. We're showing any response to the new ban in Texas. So it's hard to see that this kind of constituency has woken up.

But if you see a dramatic result from the court and subsequent bans in other states, you absolutely will see a backlash to this. It just depends on whether or not it's equal on the other side, excitement on the pro-life side, lots of money pouring in, lots of volunteers on the ground to try to fight against the pro-choice side. This is certainly going to create energy. We're just not sure whether or not it's going to end up being consequential to the vote ultimately, in the midterm elections next year in terms of helping the Democrats or helping the Republicans.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's in the wake of Texas. I think a lot of us have been waiting to see how these things would start to play out, particularly this looming at the Supreme Court just hasn't seemed like it's starting to move things yet but it's early.

Larry, moving on to another central issue in politics and in life at this point in time. President Biden enacting new COVID restrictions to fight the Omicron variant. Starting on Monday, the U.S. will have stricter testing requirements for international travelers. President is also pushing forward with mass mandates, extending them in public transportation. Obviously, it's the business vaccine requirements that he's put into place as well. Take a listen to how Sen. Mike Lee, a Republican from Utah reacted this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R-UT): I think it's difficult to understand why anyone would want to use the overpowering force of the federal government to tell someone that if they don't cooperate with the ordained presidential medical orthodoxy, they will be fired. It's going to come back up again. It'll come back up in any future vote-a-rama. It's going to come back again, every time we get the opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And the Senator was talking about his amendment this week to defund the restrictions that are being pursued by the Labor Department, by OSHA that the President put in place.

Larry, I'm intrigued by this because I talked to White House officials and they want this fight. They are more than happy to have this fight. But do you think that Sen. Lee is right, the Republicans can use continued COVID restrictions as a political weapon against Democrats?

LARRY SABATO, CENTER FOR POLITICS DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Oh, yes, absolutely in red states and in some red-leaning purple states, competitive states. In blue states, of course, there's strong support for mandates and even in the red states, Democrats and many independents support the mandate.

So I don't think it clearly favors one party overall in the country, but that's not how we vote. We vote by individual congressional districts and state by state for governor and U.S. senator.

[18:45:03]

MATTINGLY: Yes. A.B., kind of along those lines, Axios is reporting the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has told colleagues, donors that Senate Republicans won't release a legislative agenda ahead of the midterms. Anybody defying that might not remember the 2014 Senate Republican run, but they also didn't have one and took majority. Do you think Republicans can just run against President Biden and not offer a Contract for America or something like that and win?

STODDARD: Mitch McConnell is not wrong about this. If you look at the polling, the wind is at Republicans' backs right now and against the Democrats. And that's why there's an argument, Phil on the Democratic side about whether or not Biden is going to succeed in helping the party hold on to power by trying to stress bipartisan cooperation and accomplishments or whether or not he should be leading into negative partisanship as well, just as the Republicans are doing and that's what the administration is struggling with right now.

MATTINGLY: And, Larry, I'll actually direct the same question to you. What's your sense? Do these legislative agenda ideas, nascent as they may be matter, to voters ahead of the midterm?

SABATO: Yes, they do matter to voters. The 2 percent, who are elite and actually read this stuff and care about it. As for everybody else. Look, it's good government to issue a platform and give people a sense of what you're going to do if you're elected. But it's good politics as A.B. just suggested to give people no real hint.

Although they already know what the Republicans are going to do. Nobody is in any doubt about what will happen if they take over the House or Senate or both. We're talking about extreme gridlock for the final two years of President Biden's first term.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. Gridlock in Washington. Larry, the (inaudible), I can't ...

SABATO: Yes. I know, (inaudible) ...

MATTINGLY: ... A.B. Stoddard, Larry Sabato, appreciate as always your wisdom and counsel. Thanks, guys.

All right. This week, a woman who says she suffered years of abuse from Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, took the stand in Maxwell's sex trafficking trial. We'll break it all down coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:36]

MATTINGLY: The first witnesses in the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell took the stand this week. Now, Maxwell is accused of helping convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein groom and sexually exploited girls, many of them underage. Here's CNN Kara Scannell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: The jury for the sex trafficking trial of Ghislaine Maxwell heard from one of the alleged victims and two of Jeffrey Epstein's former employees during the first week of testimony. An accuser identified by the pseudonym Jane testified that Epstein and Maxwell recruited her at summer camp when she was 14 years old. She alleged that Maxwell instructed her how to massage Epstein and went into graphic detail about the alleged sexual abuse that occurred during those massages.

On Friday, prosecutors brought into the courtroom, a green collapsible massage table that was recovered during a 2005 search of Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach Villa. A police sergeant testified they recovered the table, sex toys and photos of nude females.

Earlier in the week, prosecutors called a pilot and house manager who both testified that Jane traveled with Epstein and Maxwell. The house manager also described how Epstein and Maxwell kept strict rules telling staff to see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing and to never disclose their activities to anyone.

Neither the house manager nor the pilots said they saw any signs of sexual abuse. However, the house manager said when he cleaned up after massages a handful of times, he found a large sex toy in the massage area. So far the jury has heard from eight government witnesses.

Prosecutor said they intend to call three alleged victims to testify in the coming weeks. Maxwell's attorneys have sought to chip away at the credibility of the government's witnesses. They have said that Maxwell is a scapegoat and she is being prosecuted for Jeffrey Epstein's crimes because he cannot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Kara Scannell, thanks for that.

Now, after a week-long investigation, this network, CNN, has announced primetime anchor Chris Cuomo has been fired. We'll have much more on the decision in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

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[18:58:19]

MATTINGLY: So here's a PSA, if you're planning a winter getaway to Hawaii, you apparently may want to pack your parka. That's right. The National Weather Service in Honolulu issuing the first blizzard warning in more than three years. Meanwhile, Denver hasn't seen any measurable snow since April.

I want to bring in meteorologist Gene Norman. Gene, what on earth is going on here?

GENE NORMAN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Phil, we're going to ride the ship soon, I promise you. But it really isn't that unusual to think about snow at one of the tallest mountains on Hawaii and one of the tallest mountains in the world. In fact Mauna Kea that you see behind me, it actually means White Mountain. But there hasn't been a blizzard warning there since 2018, so that is pretty unusual.

A lot of moisture, cold air aloft, that's a recipe for snow at some of those higher elevations. The blizzard warning in effect till tomorrow. Up to a foot of snow is possible there with winds gusting as high as a hundred miles an hour. Now, the moisture source, producing the snow at higher elevations is also producing a flood threat across a good part of the Hawaiian island.

So they're bracing for the potential for flooding. Something we'll have to watch out for. And you see just a little bit of light rain falling there now. However, across the lower 48, that's where those flakes are really starting to fly from Montana back through North and South Dakota and intersections of Minnesota as well.

In fact, a blizzard warning for the extreme northeastern portion of Minnesota through tomorrow otherwise, winter storm warnings in effect in the pink. The purple areas are winter weather advisories. Phil, we could be seeing snow as much as a foot or more along with wind gusts of 50 miles an hour in this dark purple shaded area and maybe some snow gets close to Denver but not just quite yet. We started the month mild, but believe me winter is making a comeback, could be to a neighborhood near you.

[19:00:04]

MATTINGLY: Winter is coming. Gene Norman, thank you very much my friend.