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Bob Dole, Giant Of The Senate And G.O.P. Presidential Nominee Dies At 98; Police Says Person Who Helped Suspect's Parents Hide May Face Charges; Pearl Harbor Water Source Contaminated With Petroleum, Officials Say. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 05, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:16]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield and we begin this hour with this breaking news.

Bob Dole, a giant of the U.S. Senate and the 1996 Republican presidential nominee has died at the age of 98. His family issued a statement saying Dole passed away this morning in his sleep. He had announced in February that he was being treated for advanced lung cancer.

Dole's American journey took him from the plains of Kansas to the battlefields of World War II, and then to Capitol Hill. There he became one of the most powerful politicians of the 20th century. Gloria Borger takes a look back at the life and legacy of Bob Dole.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): Bob Dole was one of the oldest people at the 2016 Republican convention at the age of 92, but he still remembered exactly how he felt two decades earlier, when he was losing to Bill Clinton.

BOB DOLE, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I get up in the morning and I charge out there. You work all day. If you don't have that attitude, you know, you'd go out there and make a half-hearted speech and people would know, this guy is a loser.

BORGER (voice over): This guy was anything but a loser.

Consider the accomplishments. Eight years in the House, 27 in the Senate. He was Senate Majority Leader -- twice.

Bob Dole was an American hero. During World War II, he was hit by a machine gun fire. He spent years recuperating, and lost the use of one arm. Just one of the many reasons why he was the driving force behind the construction of the World War II Memorial in Washington.

Every Saturday, health permitting, Dole would be there to greet his fellow vets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to see you there, Dole. How are you doing? All right?

DOLE: I feel good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to know. Not bad, huh?

DOLE: I've got a bad knee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Join the club.

BORGER (voice over): He never forgot losing the presidency, but there were moments when those memories receded.

DOLE: When you're doing something like that, you don't think about ' 96 or '88 or any other here.

Yes, I know you. We were in Italy together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up in arms.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Wow. Those are precious moments. With me right now, CNN presidential historian, Tim Naftali. He is also the former Director of the Nixon Presidential Library.

Tim. I mean, just seeing that moment of how important and significant it was for fellow World War II veterans, to have access to him, particularly at one of his legacies, you know, and the creation of that beautiful Memorial there on the grounds of the Washington Mall. What are your thoughts about his lasting legacy and how he directly and indirectly touched so many?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, first of all, Bob Dole was a war hero, and like a Senator, in a way of why, he bore the scars of World War Two for the rest of his life, but found energy for public service, enormous public service.

Bob Dole described himself as a traditional conservative. He emerged in a political era when you could be fiercely loyal to your party, and to your President -- the President came from your party -- and still work with the other side.

Bob Dole, in an interview with the Nixon library in 2008 said that not every good idea comes from one party. And as a result, in the 1970s, Bob Dole worked with Hubert Humphrey and with George McGovern to save the Food Stamp Program, and after he left office, he again worked with McGovern on an international plan for food security.

He also worked with a bipartisan group to save Social Security in 1983. Even though he was still loyal to President Reagan, who preferred a privatized Social Security Plan, he worked with Democrats to come up with a plan that saved a nationally directed Social Security Plan.

In 1990, he worked so hard to help create the Americans with Disabilities Act. So, although Bob Dole definitely was a partisan, he believed he could be and should be a partisan, he was also willing to work with Democrats to make this a better country.

[15:05:09]

NAFTALI: Bob Dole was from a very different era.

WHITFIELD: And getting all of that done that you just spelled out. I mean, clearly, you had to be tough, and we know he was, but he was also witty, which so many speak of and perhaps it is that attribute that may have helped him be able to negotiate with people on both sides and get things done.

NAFTALI: Oh, well, Fred, he definitely had a sharp tongue, which got him into trouble. But he was also a man of good humor, and he made many, many friends on Capitol Hill, and not always from the same party.

There is something else that needs to be kept in mind about Bob Dole. Bob Dole lost his job as Chairman of the Republican National Committee in early 1973, because he wouldn't do everything the Nixon White House wanted him to do.

The Nixon White House wanted him to engage in the politics of personal destruction. In fact, it started in 1969 after Chappaquiddick, when the White House hoped that he would work with them in a campaign against Teddy Kennedy, and again, in 1972, the White House wanted him to say things about "The Washington Post" owner that he didn't believe and he wasn't about to do.

So Bob Dole, there were limits. He was loyal. He believed loyalty was important, but he also believed in ethics, and he believed in politics where you could be friends with the person you disagreed with, and the person who beat on the floor of the Senate.

WHITFIELD: Oh, nice points. You know, as we look at these pictures, and right at his side, all the time, Elizabeth Dole. Can we talk about their union, their partnership, their marriage of so many years? I mean, she was a Cabinet Secretary herself, and together, they were indeed a powerful D.C. couple.

NAFTALI: They were a powerful couple. You no doubt wanted to be in invited to spend time with them, and they were both in their own way dedicated to public service.

I think a real takeaway when we study the life of someone like Bob Dole, we live in such a harsh political climate, a toxic political climate today. Bob Dole is a reminder that you can have sharp elbows, you can be really tough in American politics, and still be a decent human being, and try to work for a better country.

Bob Dole wanted government to be small. Absolutely. He wanted to cut taxes, but he didn't want to destroy government. He believed the Federal government had a role to play in our lives. He would disagree with liberal Democrats about how big that role was, but he accepted that there was a role.

He knew that there were times when the most vulnerable among us, and he knew what it was like to be vulnerable, needed help, and he was there. I think that's the takeaway today.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and I mean, demonstrating that empathy and using the power that he had to help others. That's pretty extraordinary.

So you know, we know that Dole lost the 1996 presidential race to Bill Clinton, and today, Clinton sent out this tweet on Dole saying this: "Bob Dole dedicated his entire life to serving the American people from his heroism in World War II to the 35 years he spent in Congress. After all he gave in the war, he didn't have to give more, but he did. His example should inspire people today and for generations to come."

I mean, the two men from very different generations, have very different backgrounds, but I've seen the photos and seen you know, some of the stories. I mean, they actually became, you know, adversaries, you know, and friends and seeing eye-to-eye on many occasions.

NAFTALI: And Bob Dole running an atrocious campaign in 1996, which he later acknowledged, but I want to tell quickly one story about another political adversary.

There was enormous tension between George Herbert Walker Bush and Bob Dole. They really disliked each other. Bob Dole saw him as somebody who had grown up with a silver spoon, was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and Bob Dole lived a hardscrabble life.

But even they became friendly, again after both had left power. And one of the most poignant pictures that we have of Bob Dole is him saluting George H.W. Bush's casket in his last public appearance in 2018.

WHITFIELD: Yes, that was incredibly powerful. What a moment -- and great -- we did pull that video and there it is right there.

Tim, I'm so glad you helped explain the contrast of how their relations were, and then, you know, how it culminated, and that salute that now, the late Senator Bob Dole gave to the late President George H.W. Bush.

Thank you so much, Tim Naftali. Thank you so much for your reflections, your word, and your knowledge of great history.

Thank you so much.

[15:10:10]

WHITFIELD: Still ahead, police identify a person of interest, who they believe helped the parents of the suspected school shooter in Michigan hide from authorities. New details on that straight ahead.

Plus, families frustrated and looking for answers after a Navy water system in Hawaii becomes contaminated and gets people sick. We will tell you what's causing the problem, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: All right. We're following some new developments in the

shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan. Police have identified a person of interest who they believe helped the suspected shooter's parents evade capture.

The couple, James and Jennifer Crumbley were found in a Detroit warehouse on Saturday after an hour's long manhunt for them. They are charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

The School District Superintendent is now requesting an independent investigation into the deadly attack.

CNN's Athena Jones is in Pontiac, Michigan. Athena, what do we know about this investigation now requested by the School District?

[15:15:10]

ATHENA JONES, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. That's right. Well, you know, from the very beginning, from the day of the shooting, there have been a lot of questions raised about what the school knew, and how they handled the whole situation with Ethan Crumbley, particularly when it was revealed that two separate teachers on two separate days raised concerns about things that they had observed him doing.

And so now, the Superintendent is calling for this investigation and also in a letter providing a few details about the school's version of events. And so, he says that on Monday, when a teacher saw Ethan Crumbley looking at images of ammunition on his cell phone, even was brought to talk to counselors, and he told the school staff member and a school counselor that he and his mother recently went to a shooting range and that shooting sports are a family hobby. So, that was his explanation to searching for ammunition.

On Tuesday morning, after a teacher alerted school counselors that Ethan Crumbley had this concerning drawing on his desk with concerning written statements and some things on the drawing, it was a drawing of a gun, words "blood" everywhere. There was a drawing of a person that appeared to have bullet holes and be bleeding. So, very disturbing images of violence.

When that was reported to the school, Ethan was immediately removed from class. He told a school counselor that the drawing was part of a video game he was designing and informed counselors he planned to pursue video game design as a career, and so they monitored him until they got in touch with his parents.

But this letter is stressing that at no time did school counselors believe that Ethan Crumbley might harm himself or might harm others based on his behavior, which they said was calm. His demeanor was calm.

When Ethan Crumbley's parents arrived to the school on Tuesday, this letter says that counselors asked Ethan specific probing questions about his potential for self-harm and or to harm others. And the answers Ethan and his parents provided led the counselors to conclude that he didn't intend to harm himself or anyone else and that is one reason he was allowed to go back into class.

Now, another reason is that that the school suggested that Ethan's parents take him home and they refused, and so that's why he was sent back to class. But here is one thing that is not answered by this letter, these probing questions that the school counselors asked the Crumbley's, it doesn't sound like they asked whether or not Ethan Crumbley' had access to a weapon. That is something that is still very much not clear here -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Or a request of searching the bag that he had at that time.

All right, Athena Jones, thank you so much for that.

All right, now, to this water crisis in Hawaii. The City of Honolulu has shut down its largest water source, which comes from the Navy's base near Pearl Harbor after officials found petroleum chemicals in one of its wells.

Natasha Chen is following this from Los Angeles. So Natasha, people had complained about problems with the water recently, talking about what they were ingesting.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So Fred, the Navy says they have gotten calls from neighbors talking about symptoms, like nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headaches, skin-related conditions. These are people who may have been exposed to the contaminated water.

Now on Thursday, the Navy said it found a likely source of the contamination, believed to be petroleum chemicals initiated from the Red Hill well.

Now they had isolated that well, and then the Board of Water Supply found out about that.

Just to give you a sense of what the Navy is saying right now, let's show their statement. It says: "The results of the Red Hill sample showed petroleum hydrocarbons roughly four to 10 times below the Hawaii Department of Health Environmental Action Level."

They continue to say: "The Navy is developing a plan to restore the potable water system to E.P.A. standards, identifying how this contaminant got in the well and fix the well."

Now, in the meantime, the Board of Water Supply also released a statement because they had to, as you said shut down Oahu, Honolulu's largest water supply, they said: "We are deeply concerned that we were not notified immediately by the Navy regarding the shutdown of their Red Hill water source."

And that is because the Board says they have data showing that when the Navy has shut down that well in the past, that the water direction then flows to this shaft, so that's why they had to shut that down out of an abundance of caution.

So now, we're talking about a lot of people's water supply being affected. That area, it serves about 450,000 people in urban Honolulu. So, a lot of work right now being done to see what exactly caused this contamination. They're actually distributing bottled water. Some people need to have temporary housing.

And so, this is causing quite a lot of concern especially for the families with Navy or Army housing there with -- as we can tell, the Navy and the local Water Board trying to figure out how to fix this -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow, big complications. Big potential headaches and potentially very dangerous for a lot of people depending on their health status.

[15:20:10]

WHITFIELD: All right, Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

CHEN: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, President Biden is set to speak with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday amid fears the Kremlin is on the verge of invading Ukraine. Is a diplomatic solution possible? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: President Biden says he is looking forward to what he calls an important conference call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday. The White House announcing the two leaders will discuss a range of topics.

[15:25:00]

WHITFIELD: The call comes as U.S. officials grow increasingly concerned about the increase of Russian troops on the border of Ukraine and the possibility of a Russian invasion.

Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle urging Biden to stay firm despite uncertainty about the Kremlin's intentions.

CNN's Joe Johns is live for us at the White House and joins us now. So, Joe, what are we expecting from this call?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you what, they say, Fred, that they know a lot already about the troop movements on the Ukraine border. The administration has even gone as far as to release part of an Intelligence report, it really looks like a PowerPoint that contains five pictures of where the troops are located along with a big map. So, they have a pretty good idea of what is going on.

But the question, of course, Fred, is what does it all mean? And whether Vladimir Putin, in fact, has essentially decided that he is going to launch an invasion sometime early next year, another invasion of Ukraine.

We do know that Vladimir Putin is very concerned about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. This is a process that's already in the works. Putin does not like it a bit. He also sees Ukraine as part of Russia. So there is that.

What does seem clear, though, talking to administration officials here and what they've said on the record, is that if Putin goes forward with an invasion, and it is not sure that he will, what will follow is a series of very tough financial or economic sanctions to make Putin pay.

Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, some tense moments ahead of that call. Thank you so much, Joe Johns at the White House.

All right, new Intelligence suggests Russia could begin a military offensive in Ukraine in a matter of months. The findings also indicate Russia could amass up to 175,000 troops along the border, CNN military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joining us now. He is a former Army Commanding General of Europe and the Seventh Army.

General, good to see you. It's been a long time. Glad to have you back.

All right, so Biden and Putin will meet virtually Tuesday in this call. How likely is it that a diplomatic solution is possible?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's certainly what the President is pushing forward toward, Fredricka, and it is important to do that.

He knows what Russia has done in the past. He realizes that this is another threat by Mr. Putin against NATO and European countries, and he wants to stop it before it starts. But I think what is also interesting, while the President is meeting with Mr. Putin on Tuesday, he has already sent Secretary Blinken, Secretary Austin, and remember, he also sent C.I.A. Director Burns to Moscow a few weeks ago.

They were all doing preludes to these diplomatic engagements to tell the Russians, we know what you're doing, knock it off. It is only going to cause major problems, not only for you, but for your kleptocracy, if you will, as the sanctions get a little tougher.

WHITFIELD: And how important was it to do that? Because that doesn't always come with an upcoming call or a sitting President reaching out to a leader like, you know, Putin, to send those lieutenants, those other, you know, Secretaries ahead of the call to kind of lay the groundwork. How potentially effective will that have been?

HERTLING: It's, it's critically important, Fred, and we haven't seen that kind of diplomacy over the last couple of years where we have seen multiple members of a Cabinet go to a foreign country and really lay out the dangers of the actions of the foe that we're facing.

But one more thing I'll add to all of that, not only has the United States been doing it, but Mr. Blinken was also at the NATO Ministerial last week, not a whole lot of information has come out of that Ministerial just yet, but one of the topics of discussion was really about coordinating and cooperating on the potential for more damaging sanctions among the European nations in coordination with the United States.

So, I think this is the kind of diplomacy that we've been missing for a while, coming together, not only sending the Cabinet members, but also getting alliances to come together and thwart the kind of governments that are violating the values of a democratic regime and also violating the sovereignty of this nation of Ukraine.

WHITFIELD: And you feel this way. Because, you know, we've seen previously that leaving Putin's aggression unchallenged, you know, enables more dangerous behavior. I mean, what, ultimately are all the options that the United States has with Russia?

HERTLING: Yes, I certainly believe leaving it unchecked as we have done for too long will create more -- there is an old saying in Russia when I was dealing with the Russians, I was told this by one of their diplomats, Mr. Putin will continue to push the bayonet in as long as he feels soft tissue. As soon as he hits steel, he will withdraw that bayonet.

[15:30:04]

HERTLING: And that was an analogy to what he is doing right now. He is pushing not only the United States, but Western European countries. He is trying to disrupt NATO. That's his strategic game, and he is also trying to say, Ukraine belongs to me, even though he promised and his government promised many years ago that they would remain a sovereign and complete nation.

So yes, he has some options, these 175,000 soldiers along the border with some really, critically important equipment, new tanks coming from the central part of Russia are certainly a quality that he has, and it says the capability that Russia has to potentially interfere with Ukraine.

But truthfully, I'm betting on Ukraine on this. I've been betting on them since the 2014 invasions. They have stood up to Mr. Putin. They have asked for help not only from the United States, but from other European allies. They're starting to get it. And I've got to tell you, they are already preparing for anything that might happen along the spectrum of attacks that Russia could potentially execute in Ukraine.

But that's the capabilities. I'm not sure we know what Mr. Putin's intent is, but I think it needs to be stopped.

WHITFIELD: And it sounds like you're feeling particularly confident then about Ukraine. Is that particularly because you have in the case of, you know, Biden has been in constant contact with Ukrainian officials, as well as with European allies?

HERTLING: Well, having served in Europe and worked with the Ukrainian military back as recently as 2013. I know their capability. I know what they have learned over the last seven years in terms of fighting Russia. So it's a combination of a push by the U.S. and European nations in

terms of putting diplomacy first and holding Russia toward the Minsk agreements, which they have constantly violated, while at the same time understanding that I think Ukraine has a much more -- they have a very unified and patriotic military, and a government that is standing behind their government, or I'm sorry, a civilian population that is standing behind their government, and I think they would give any kind of Russian incursion into their territory a run for its money.

You know, we may talk about the 175,000 Russians that are surrounding Ukraine on the border, but Ukraine also has about 250,000 soldiers under arms, so they can defend themselves. But, I think what you're going to see is if Mr. Putin does this, conducts any kind of action, you're going to see a blowback, which will push him further into the realm of being a national or international pariah that other people won't take accountability for.

WHITFIELD: Isolation. All right, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you so much. Good to see you.

HERTLING: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead. The U.S. is averaging 100,000 cases of COVID a day for the first time in months, and with the Holiday season underway, could this be the start of another big surge of cases? That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:35]

WHITFIELD: All right, with the threat of a new COVID variant looming, it is the one we've known about all year that's actually ravaging the country. This chart you're about to see is almost entirely thanks to delta. The U.S. is averaging more than 100,000 cases every day for the first time in two months. The trend is similar in this chart tracking the same period.

We're back above 1,500 deaths a day and still climbing. Most of those deaths are still coming among the unvaccinated. But Dr. Anthony Fauci says the recent spikes and the potential danger from omicron, that variant, should both encourage even vaccinated people to get their booster shots.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The vaccines that we are distributing now in the United States and throughout the world are directed against the original ancestral or Wuhan strain. And yet, with delta, when you get a level of antibody and general immune protection high enough, it spills over to protect against other variants.

So, we're getting quite good protection against delta when you're vaccinated, and particularly when you get boosted and that's the reason why we're seeing even with a new variant, like omicron, if you get boosted, you're going to get your level up way up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: ER physician, Dr. Anand Swaminathan joining us now from New Jersey. Good to see you, Doctor. So, what do you make of the nationwide numbers right now with a calendar now right between Thanksgiving and the Christmas-New Years, you know, Hanukkah Holiday season?

DR. ANAND SWAMINATHAN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: It is very concerning to see such high levels right now, and omicron probably hasn't hit its stride yet within our population, and with those Holidays coming like you suggested, we're going to see more of a spike. So, we're going into the season with already high levels, we're going to see more spiking. And what we're going to see are hospital systems overwhelmed.

Many hospital systems are already overwhelmed, talking to my colleagues across the country, where the ERs are spilling over, the ICUs are spilling over. So, we really have a lot of concern going forward. Although, there are still a lot of things that we can do, Fred, you know, as opposed to a year ago, we have a better understanding and we have tools at our disposal that can really help us.

So while omicron is probably going to push numbers higher, we are having more emerging data about the transmissibility. The fact that it is more transmissible, the fact that those with prior infection, that immunity is pretty weak, we also have tools that can help us.

[15:40:06]

SWAMINATHAN: We know that masking helps. We know that testing can help, and of course, we know that getting vaccinated, and of course getting boosted is going to be extremely protective as well.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, C.D.C. Director Rochelle Walensky said this morning that the focus for her and her team is on vaccines, not new mandates. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We recommend masking in public indoor settings in areas that have high or substantial transmission, and that's over 80 percent of our counties right now.

QUESTION: Would you rather see a nationwide mandate?

WALENSKY: I would rather see people get vaccinated, boosted, and follow our recommendations, I'd rather not have requirements in order to do so, people should do this for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so you know, the emphasis on people doing this for themselves? Do you think that's going to work? SWAMINATHAN: I want to hope and believe that it will work, but we've

seen throughout this pandemic, as the vaccines have become available that people aren't always making that decision, and I think we have to shift the focus a little bit to thinking about the individual and thinking about the general population, because that's how vaccines work, that's how public health works.

Really, on a population basis, there is a lot of talk about severity of omicron coming. Is it going to be less? It may be less in the individual, but with increased transmissibility and increased cases, for the entire population, the severity of omicron is going to be higher.

And so we have to stop thinking about vaccines simply for the individual, and really think about how they protect everybody around us, and Fred, we should be thinking about masks the exact same way. I have both my doses, I'm boosted.

But I am still wearing a mask in any indoor public space, not just to protect myself, but understanding that I am high risk for exposure, I'm high risk for a breakthrough because of what I do for work, and so I have to protect everybody around me. That's the real way that we need to be thinking about this.

WHITFIELD: And even though this new variant, omicron, is still it new to a lot of us, do you think that is going to be the more we know about it, the more that you know, experts, such as yourself are talking about it, that is going to be the encouragement, the impetus for people to get vaccinated?

SWAMINATHAN: I hope so. I hope that people see this and say, you know, this is my chance. This is my opportunity, and that kind of is the good news. The good news, as Dr. Fauci has said, is that when you have a high level of antibodies, it's very likely that this is going to protect you against omicron, just as it did against delta, just as it did against alpha.

So if you're not vaccinated, go and get your vaccine now. It means that within a couple of weeks, you're going to have very high circulating antibody levels, you're going to be protected. If you've had infection before and you're relying on that immunity, don't rely on that immunity. It's not enough. It's not robust enough. Go and get that vaccine, start that process, get protected now before the surge really hits.

WHITFIELD: All right, I hear you loud and clear. Do not let the guard down as yet.

All right, Dr. Anand Swaminathan, thank you so much. Good to see you.

All right, after the break, Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar speaks exclusively to CNN. She is responding to the series of anti-Muslim attacks from her Republican colleague, Lauren Boebert. Her remarks straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:47:39]

WHITFIELD: Today, in an exclusive interview with CNN, Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar spoke out about the series of attacks that she has faced from her Republican colleague, Lauren Boebert. The Colorado Congresswoman had implied Congresswoman Omar, who is Muslim, could also be a suicide bomber.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): It is shocking and unacceptable. And you know, it is very unbecoming of a Congresswoman to use that kind of derogatory, dangerous, inciting language against a colleague.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: What's your reaction to McCarthy and how he described it?

OMAR: McCarthy is a liar and a coward. He doesn't have the ability to condemn the kind of bigoted Islamophobia and anti-Muslim rhetoric that are being trafficked by a member of his conference.

TAPPER: Why doesn't he have the ability to do that?

OMAR: Because this is -- this is who they are, and we have to be able to stand up to them and we have to push them to reckon with the fact that their party right now is normalizing anti-Muslim bigotry.

TAPPER: We should point out that there are some members of the Republican House Caucus -- Nancy Mace, Tom Reed, Adam Kinzinger, Fred Upton -- I believe reached out to you, who have condemned the remarks but that's four out of hundreds. Most in the House --

OMAR: And they are being attacked.

TAPPER: They are being attacked for --

OMAR: For condemning it, which tells you that their conference condones this, and that's why it's dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk further about all this. Melanie Zanona is a CNN Capitol Hill reporter, and Olivia Beavers is a congressional reporter for POLITICO. Good to see both of you, ladies.

So you heard Congresswoman Omar just then saying, quote: "This is who they are." So Olivia, are the voices and influence of fringe voices in the G.O.P. Caucus dominating the party mainstream?

OLIVIA BEAVERS, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: There certainly -- this is certainly a pattern that we've been seeing in recent weeks and this year as a whole, which is that there are certain members who keep on having controversial comments or decisions, and then it consumes the party, and Leader McCarthy tends to take the approach where he is silent, he tries to deal with it behind closed doors, saying you need to apologize or issue a statement. [15:50:10]

BEAVERS: We saw it previously with Paul Gosar who ended up being kicked off his Committees and censored by the House Democrats. But when this happens, essentially, it's a huge headache, and they are becoming increasingly the faces where they are pushing the buttons and attracting controversy and that is not the position that most of the Republican Conference wants to be in, is responding to comments, like you saw Lauren Boebert making previously.

So, it is certainly a kind of a conundrum and a problem for the party that we are probably going to keep seeing going forward, especially as they look to retake the majority in the next midterm elections.

WHITFIELD: And then Melanie, if the House Minority Leader, you know, McCarthy is not going to, you know, condemn it more vociferously, how about the House Speaker Pelosi? What are her options moving forward possibly to punish Congresswoman Boebert?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, well, Speaker Pelosi has a number of options. Number one, they can censure Lauren Barbara, just like they did with Paul Gosar. They could also strip her of her Committee assignments, which Democrats also did to Marjorie Taylor Greene, as well as Paul Gosar.

And number three, Speaker Pelosi could put a resolution on the floor that condemns Lauren Boebert and Islamophobia. I think the question really is how far do Democrats want to go? Because I can tell you, Fred, there was some internal debate about this last week, and some Democrats are reluctant to have to constantly police the bad behavior of their G.O.P. colleagues.

They really feel like the onus should be on House Minority Leader, Kevin McCarthy, but clearly, that's not going to happen. And so momentum has grown in the Democratic ranks to take matters into their own hands and hold Lauren Boebert accountable in some manner.

WHITFIELD: And then Olivia, I mean, Minority Leader McCarthy says, oh, wait, you know, he is still capable of leading. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: The clashes that you've seen within your caucus earlier this week, if you're Speaker, would that make it difficult for you to govern?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): No, we're going to be quite fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: What does that mean?

BEAVERS: Look, I think McCarthy is basically planning that you're going to always have certain members who are pushing the button, but we saw this year when Marjorie Taylor Greene was kicked off of her Committee, there was this new sort of precedent where that controversy and Democrats taking decisions against her, there were about a dozen Republicans who voted for also to be stripped of her Committee assignments, she fundraised an incredible amount of money.

And so this politics of controversy is becoming more and more, you know, attractive to members, and it is constantly about pushing the line, but not crossing the line and not entirely finding out where that is and that is going to become a problem if both parties and especially if Republicans are in the power, and they decide to basically be making comments like you saw with Lauren Boebert or making decisions like you saw with Paul Gosar, and it is a pattern that McCarthy will have to deal with, and the question is whether he decides to deal with it differently if he ends up becoming Speaker.

WHITFIELD: And then meanwhile, Melanie, back in the Senate, and the clock is ticking, you know, for the Democrats to pass the President's Build Back Better legislation before Christmas. That was their kind of self-imposed deadline. Is it going to happen?

ZANONA: There are serious doubts about that timeline. First of all, there is only a few weeks left on the legislative calendar before the end of the year. They also have to deal with the debt ceiling, which just really eats up time on the floor in the Senate. And then also, Joe Manchin and others are demanding pretty significant changes to the bill, so that process is also going to take time.

And once they finally do make changes that gets everyone on board, then they have to get a cost estimate, which as we know, we saw on the House side that can take a while. And so, it is looking more and more likely that this is going to slip into the New Year.

But I would just remind folks at home that these are self-imposed deadlines, so they can blow by them without you know any repercussions. But Democrats do want to get this done pretty early on next year, because once it starts getting closer to the midterms, the politics get a little bit more tricky.

WHITFIELD: So then Olivia, what do you see the landscape to be particularly for the White House who wants to meet that deadline, but as Melanie, you know, just said, you know, Olivia, they can change the deadline whenever they want to, but there is real capital spent in doing that.

BEAVERS: Exactly. I think Melanie hit it on the nose. Of course, they would love to have this passed before people leave for the Holidays, but if we learned anything this year, deadlines are meant to be broken. We saw it repeatedly with infrastructure, and even with the House voting to pass the reconciliation bill.

So you know, whether they do stick to this soft timeline that they've said and have privately suggested it would be next week, we'll see. Of course, we're not going to call where the dart lands at this point.

WHITFIELD: All right, Olivia Beavers and Melanie Zanona, good to see you both, ladies. Thank you so much.

ZANONA: Thanks, Fred. WHITFIELD: All right, and then this quick programming note for later

on this evening. Join CNN's Elle Reeve for a new documentary, "White Power on Trial: A Return to Charlottesville." This CNN Special Report begins at 9:00 PM tonight.

[15:55:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jim Acosta right after this.

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