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Remembering Bob Dole; Biden Speaks At The Kennedy Center Ahead Of High Stakes Week; School Superintendent Requests Independent Probe Into Shooting; Stricter Travel Rules Start Monday As U.S. COVID-19 Cases Rise; Family Blames Instagram For Teen Daughter's Suicide; Interview With Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-CA); Risk Posed By Omicron Variant Still Unclear. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 05, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:25]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST (voice-over): Remembering Bob Dole.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Bob Dole certainly exemplified, he underscored that World War II greatest generation.

MATTINGLY: Politicians on both sides of the aisle paying tribute to an absolute titan of 20th century politics.

BOB DOLE, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some may find this surprising given the view that Congress has been my life. But that is not so. With all due respect to Congress, America has been my life.

MATTINGLY: The Michigan school district where four students were shot and killed now requesting its own independent investigation.

SHERIFF MICHAEL BOUCHARD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN: We have a process. If there's any kind of concerning behavior threat. That did not happen.

MATTINGLY: The U.S. weighing what's next as the country grapples with the new COVID variant rise in cases, hospitalizations and deaths.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The next six months really depend on how we mobilize together to do the things that we know work.

MATTINGLY: Democratic Representative Ilhan Omar says she's certain Republican counterpart Lauren Boebert will face punishment for her anti-Muslim remarks.

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): This kind of language, this kind of hate cannot be condoned.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington. Pamela Brown has the day off. And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Tonight a nation honors long-time senator and GOP presidential nominee

Bob Dole who died this morning at the age of 98. His American journey took him from the plains of Kansas to World War II Europe to Capitol Hill, where he became one of the most powerful politicians of the 20th century.

In a statement, President Biden remembered Dole as, quote, "an American statesman like few in our history. A war hero and among the greatest of the greatest generation, and to me he was also a friend whom I could look to for trusted guidance or humorous line at just the right moment to settle frayed nerves. I will miss my friend."

And former President George W. Bush said, in part, quote, "I will always remember Bob's salute to my late dad at the Capitol. And now we Bushes salute Bob and give thanks for his life of principled service."

CNN's Wolf Blitzer looks back at that life and the legacy of Bob Dole.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Bob Dole was the kind of politician you'll have a hard time finding in Washington these days. Much of the country only saw the cartoon image hatchet man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Dole has richly earned his reputation as a hatchet man tonight.

BLITZER: Sharp-tongued partisan.

DOLE: If I used election promise from my opponent.

BLITZER: Pundits who didn't know better labeled him mean-spirited. But the man wasn't defined by grouchiness or gridlock. In the Senate where he spent the bulk of his political life, Dole became a master at forging compromise, working with Democrats to cobble together bills that left the country better off. A food stamp bill with George McGovern, the Americans with Disabilities Act with Tom Harkin, Social Security reform with Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

DOLE: Some might find this surprising given the view that Congress has been my life, but that is not so. With all due respect to Congress, America has been my life.

BLITZER: He also was a driving force behind Washington's magnificent World War II memorial.

DOLE: I've sort of become the unofficial greeter. I try to greet every group. I can't explain the emotion and what it means to one of these 85, 90, 95-year-old veterans who get a chance to touch and feel the World War II memorial. It's probably the best thing that's happened to them in years, and they're going to remember it the rest of their life.

BLITZER: Dole was one of those young Americans who went off to the war on a hillside in Italy, an explosion severely damaged his shoulder and spinal cord. Dole spent 39 months in hospitals, hovering near death more than once.

DOLE: First I didn't think it was fair. Then I looked around to the next bed and they were taking somebody away who had passed away or somebody who'd lost both legs or done something else so I didn't feel so sorry for myself.

BLITZER: His right hand remained virtually useless for the rest of his life. His mind, however, was fine. Voters in his home state of Kansas sent Dole to Washington for five terms where he thrived, becoming a Republican leader in the Senate. He was President Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976 and ran for president in 1980 and 1988. Finally winning the Republican nomination in 1996.

[18:05:02]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Jefferson Clinton has a job for four more years.

BLITZER: It didn't work out.

DOLE: There's a lot more fun winning. It hurts to lose an election but stay involved and keep fighting the good fight.

BLITZER: A 45-year political career was over. Dole moved on with grace.

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY: Great Senator Bob Dole.

BLITZER: After the bitter 2016 primaries, Dole was the only former Republican presidential nominee to attend the convention that nominated Donald Trump. He poignantly saluted the casket of fellow Republican but frequent rival George Bush. And to the end Dole kept the trademark humor so familiar to those who knew him and so surprising to those who did not.

DOLE: We always try to have a little fun. My view is if it's not any fun it's not worth doing. You look at your life and doing reflection I think success and failure are not opposites. It's just part of your life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Wolf mentioned the World War II memorial. There were no shortage of weekends in Washington, D.C. when you could go to that memorial and see former Senator Bob Dole there to meet with Honor Flight participants or World War II veterans who were coming into town just to visit. He wasn't there to tell them his stories, he was there to listen. He was just a great guy who cared about the country.

Now the flags are half-staff at the White House right now on the order of President Biden and that's where President Biden just wrapped up a speech at the Kennedy Center Honors ceremony. Now in this speech, he helped recognize influential artists like Lorne Michaels and Bette Midler.

Now the light heart event comes ahead of a very high stakes week for the president. CNN's Joe Johns was in the room.

Joe, it seemed humorous at points. Obviously a big week ahead. What'd you hear tonight?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right. Well, you know, there's been just a whole range of emotions here at the White House all day long, especially since it began with the death of Bob Dole, who was so close to the president, and then we moved to the Kennedy Center Honors event, the reception here at the White House, and this is returning to a tradition that got broken up or interrupted due to the fact that President Trump did not hold the reception during his years.

In the last year, of course, the situation was interrupted due to COVID. So all of that changes today as we return to this reception here at the White House. As you said, a number of well-known entertainers including Bette Midler, Lorne Michaels, probably the funniest event in the White House at this briefing, simply because President Biden is one of those individuals that "Saturday Night Live," produced by Lorne Michaels, has not quite yet been able to truly capture with one character.

They tried it again and again and again. The president weighed in on that in this reception. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's trying out seven guys to play me.

(LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: As we say in our family, bless me, Father, for I have sinned. If you can't laugh at yourself, we're in real trouble, and you make me laugh at myself a lot.

STEVE MARTIN, COMEDIAN: Do you want me to play you?

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Steve, I'm afraid you understand me too well.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Steve Martin there, if you didn't already know, who's also appeared on "Saturday Night Live" a bunch of times offering to play the president. We'll see what happens in the future on that.

Meanwhile, as you said, Phil, this is going to be a very big week for President Biden, another very big week. It's going to begin on Monday with a speech from the president discussing his Build Back Better plan and how it is targeted in order to help seniors pay their bills for prescription drugs. But probably the hallmark of the entire week is going to be on Tuesday when the president gets on that secure telephone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin. Number one, the top item to be discussed, of course, is the thousands

and thousands of Russian troops massing on the Ukraine border. It's not clear to U.S. intelligence what the purpose of that is, whether, for example, Mr. Putin is thinking about invading Ukraine once again or if this is some kind of a bluff. So they're going to try to get to the bottom of that. Bottom line, of course, on Ukraine is if Putin invades sometime next year, then this administration is suggesting they will move forward with some severe economic sanctions.

Phil, back to you.

MATTINGLY: And Joe, a lot of concern inside the White House behind the scenes the last couple of weeks when it comes to what the Russian president is going for right now.

[18:10:04]

We'll get a sense of that on Tuesday. A very high stakes call. Joe Johns, holding it down on the North Lawn. Thank you, sir.

All right, new developments now in the shooting rampage at a Michigan high school that left four students dead, another student charged with their murders. The man authorities believe might have helped Ethan Crumbley's parents ducked police for several hours has identified himself.

His attorney says Andrzej Sikora, a 65-year-old Polish immigration, was that man and he let the Crumbleys use his workspace but says he was unaware they were wanted. After learning of their arrest, he says he contacted the police. As of now, Sikora has not been charged with a crime.

And the school superintendent has released key details of the days leading up to Tuesday's shooting and he has requested an independent third-party investigation.

CNN's Athena Jones is in Pontiac, Michigan.

Athena, you've been following all of this. I think one of the biggest questions since the parents were actually detained is what is going on with the school right now? What do we know about this potential independent investigation?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Phil. Well, we know the superintendent is calling for that in a letter put out on Saturday. And of course since the day of the shooting, there have been a lot of questions about the way the school handled Ethan Crumbley and the Crumbleys. And so we're hearing the school's version of events in this letter from Superintendent Tim Throne.

We now know that on Monday when Ethan Crumbley was discovered looking at images of ammunition on his cell phone, he told a school counselor and a school staffer that he had just gone to a shooting range with his mother recently and that shootings were a family hobby. We know the school tried to contact his mother by phone and failed. Tried to contact both of his parents, Ethan Crumbley's parents by e-mail and did not hear back.

We know that on Tuesday morning when a second teacher alerted the school counselor after discovering Ethan Crumbley's concerning drawings, Ethan told the school counselor that the drawings depicted a semiautomatic handgun, a bullet, a body with bullet holes that appeared to be bleeding, and words and phrases like blood everywhere and the thoughts don't stop, help me. Ethan said that was part of a video game he was designing, and told the counselors he wanted to pursue video game design as a career.

Now the counselor, you know, of course called Crumbley's parents into the school to have a meeting and they asked specific probing questions -- those were the exact words used by the superintendent -- of Ethan Crumbley. Based on his answers, the counselors concluded that he wasn't at risk of harming himself or others based on his calm demeanor.

And so when his parents flatly refused to take him out of school and to take him home, it was determined by the counselors that Ethan could go back to class because he didn't have any prior disciplinary infractions in his record. Because of that, he was allowed to go back to class, but a key point in all of this is that this superintendent writes that Ethan Crumbley's parents did not inform the school district about their son's access to a firearm or the fact that they had just purchased a firearm for their son.

What is not clear from this letter and what these a lot of questions is whether the school directly asked Ethan's parents if he had a gun or if he had access to a gun -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, Athena, it's a lot of questions still. Great reporting the last several days. Keep us posted for sure. Athena Johnson, in Pontiac, Michigan, for us.

Now it's been all hands on deck today for the Biden administration when it comes to the new Omicron variant. Officials are trying to emphasize again the critical importance of masking and vaccinations and boosters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALENSKY: The next six months really depend on how we mobilize together to do the things that we know work. We know from a vaccine standpoint that the more mutations a single variant has the more immunity you really need to have in order to combat that variant, which is why right now we're really pushing to get more people vaccinated and more people boosted to really boost that immunity in every single individual.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now as people in many parts of the world gather for the holidays, international travelers again face severe restrictions and mandatory quarantines as governments try and keep Omicron from spreading. And many of these new rules are aimed at arrivals from Southern Africa where Omicron was first detected. And many of these countries said the new restrictions unfairly target African travelers.

The new rules are set to take effect tomorrow here in the U.S. Anyone arriving from another country must have a negative COVID test within 24 hours in travel. That includes U.S. citizens, includes those that are vaccinated.

CNN's Nadia Romero is following all the latest.

And Nadia, look, there are so many different dynamics at play right now but I think the bottom line to some degree is there are still a lot we just don't know about this variant, is that right?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Phil, and you heard that. You mentioned the media blitz, you saw different members of the Biden administration, health experts get out there and do all these interviews, talking about what we know and what we don't know about Omicron. And unfortunately at this point we just don't have the data to back up how transmissible it is, how deadly it is, not like what we know about the Delta variant.

[18:15:02]

And so that is why the Biden administration says they have to do all of these measures. They've enacted that, what people are calling a travel ban against those eight Southern Africa countries, including South Africa, to the criticism of many across the international community who, including one U.N. official calling this travel apartheid. And now the Obama administration starting tomorrow, their new policy rolls out where all international travelers have to prove a COVID-19 test the day before they travel.

They also have to get vaccinated as well to get into the U.S. That begins tomorrow. But there is still this big question over the vaccine, right? Does the formula that we have now, Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, does that formula work to protect us against this new variant? That's a question that Dr. Anthony Fauci answered today. Take listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER: With Delta, when you get a level of antibody and general immune protection high enough, it spills over to protect against other variants. So we're getting quite good protection against Delta when you're vaccinated, and particularly when you get boostered.

And that's the reason why we're saying even with a new variant like Omicron, if you get boosted, you're going to get your level up, way up, and we feel certain that there will be some degree, and maybe a considerable degree, of protection against the Omicron variant.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: So you heard Dr. Anthony Fauci there saying the vaccine, the booster is still your best shot against this variant and others.

Phil, we also heard from Pfizer-BioNTech. They say they can work on modifying their vaccine formula, but it will take some time -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes. No question about that. Some positive news. More than two million Americans getting vaccinated or getting boosters. It seems to be a trend over the course of the last couple of days. Some effect there at least for that variant.

Nadia Romero, thanks so much for the reporting.

And coming up, social media scrutiny. The head of Instagram set for a grilling in Congress this week. I'll speak to a father who says social media drove his daughter to take her own life. He says it's time for Facebook to, quote, "stop monetizing misery."

Also ahead, President Biden's about-face, bringing back his predecessor's controversial policy on asylum seekers. And then, Democrat Ilhan Omar calls out Republican leaders for letting their members, quote, "traffic bigotry."

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: Which tells you that their conference condones this and that's why it's dangerous.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:21:40]

MATTINGLY: This Wednesday Instagram chief Adam Mosseri will testify in a Senate subcommittee hearing on, quote, "protecting kids online." Now his appearance comes as Frances Haugen, the former Facebook project manager, offered yet another blistering assessment about the potential pitfalls of social media, especially for young girls on Instagram.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCES HAUGEN, FORMER FACEBOOK PROJECT MANAGER: Facebook's internal research states that not only is Instagram dangerous for teenagers, it's actually substantially more dangerous than other social media platforms, because TikTok is about performance and doing things with your friends, Snapchat is largely about augmented reality in faces, but Instagram is about bodies and social comparison.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now it seems clear social media has the potential to be a dangerous cliff for teens who are struggling emotionally, like 14- year-old Molly Russell. Four years ago she kissed her parents good night, logged onto Instagram and ended up taking her own life. Ian Russell blames social media for his daughter's death. He established the Molly Rose Foundation Suicide Prevention Organization in his daughter's name. Ian joins me now. And Ian, it's been four years, but I can't imagine

the depth of the pain that never goes away. There's so many things that contribute to a person choosing death by suicide. How big of a role do you believe Instagram and social media played in Molly's case?

IAN RUSSELL, BLAMES SOCIAL MEDIA FOR DAUGHTER'S DEATH: Molly was an extraordinary daughter, and even though four years has passed, of course I still think of her every day and a tear comes to my eye quite often. There was no sign of any mental ill health in Molly before her death, and we couldn't work out what could possibly triggered it. And then we looked into what she had been looking at online and saw the harmful content that she'd been exposed to on various platforms, including Instagram.

And it was almost as if a missing piece of a jigsaw was put in place because it was so horrifying and shocking seeing that content. It must have been very hard for Molly. And the platform's algorithms fed her more and more harmful content every day. And having seen, having had a glimpse of what Molly was exposed to, I think I now understand why she was pushed to do what she did.

MATTINGLY: It was reported that in the last six months of her life, Molly was using Instagram more than 120 times a day. You later learned she had viewed a lot of distressing materials. You just mentioned about depression and suicide. You kind of alluded to this, but do you have any idea how much your daughter was using Instagram so much and perhaps more importantly, how toxic it was?

RUSSELL: I know from what I've seen what Molly saw and saved and liked. But I had to limit how much of it I see as to the legal team who are working with us on Molly's inquest which is still open, and for that matter, the police officers who've been involved with the case as well. It's harmful, distressing material, sometimes quite graphically shocking, but sometimes quite subtly and shocking just with nihilistically black and white messages.

But if you are fed these messages by algorithms hundreds of times a day, it will affect your mental health and you have to protect these applicants, that you have to take an awful lot of care to make sure you don't spend too much time looking at that harmful content.

[18:25:01]

MATTINGLY: You know, one of these questions I've had, and I've been aware of Molly and the work you've done in the wake of her death, is at the time, this was very high profile, particularly in the U.K., and Instagram promised to make changes. The company released a statement saying, Instagram does not allow content that promotes or glorify self-harm or suicide, and will remove content of this kind.

That was four years ago. Are you aware of anything Instagram has done to make it safer, in your view?

RUSSELL: Well, Adam Mosseri did come to the U.K. when Molly's story broke here, and made an announcement that the platform would change its community guidelines and remove content that include a graphic self-harms. So there was a change and that's positive, and all those changes have to be welcomed, but you have to say why are they always making changes reactively. They should be proactive.

They're a huge, well-funded company. They have the data, they have the researches, as Frances Hougen's Facebook papers have shown. They have the research, they have the data, they have the resources. They should be ahead of the curve rather than reacting.

And it's time that governments around the world and legislation that's already been introduced, like the Age-Appropriate Design Code here in the U.K. and the calls from governments around the world for a safer online internet be heeded because that's what our young people who go online often deserve.

MATTINGLY: You know, one of the things that was interesting, you know, Facebook -- Instagram put a pause on their Instagram Kids a couple of months ago. And Adam Mosseri put out a video just a couple of weeks ago, ahead of his congressional testimony, where he said he was proud of the investment Instagram has made in safety for young people on the platform over the last few years. But also adds, and I think this is part of the reason for the pause of Facebook Kids is they're trying to empower parents, introducing new parental controls.

What's your reaction to the idea that parental controls are, maybe not the sort of bullet here, but are a good solution or one solution to this process?

RUSSELL: I think all such solutions should be looked into, but I think what's really more important is that the world take stock of where we are. Social media is new. It's a fantastic phenomenon. It could be used for so much good, but at the moment it's being spoiled because there is too much harmful content. So what we need to do is collectively look at the data that we have -- actually, to be honest, that data is held mainly by the tech platforms.

That data needs to be made available in an anonymize form so that data privacy isn't compromised. And then the proper academic research needs to be done so that we better understand the connection between what young people see online and the effect that it does have on their mental health. Because very sadly, this isn't a story, just a story about Molly, it's a story about thousands of young teenagers who are affected by the harmful content they can so easily find online. And we all need to take steps to do something about it.

MATTINGLY: Yes. There's no question. Molly's story does so much to help get the message out or at least get recognition to a very serious issue.

Ian Russell, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your story, sir.

RUSSELL: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right. This week, Donald Trump's former chief of staff Mark Meadows will finally sit for questions from the January 6th Committee. What questions will he face? And which ones will he actually answer? I'll ask a member of that House panel coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:57]

MATTINGLY: Off the road and onto the hot seat. This week, former Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows will take a break from his book tour. Why? Well, he'll be sitting for a deposition to the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Now his willingness to cooperate, to the extent that's happening, after months of defiance, could give investigators key insights of the Trump White House before, during and after the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

I want to bring in a member of that committee, Democrat Congressman Pete Aguilar of California.

Congressman, thanks for your time. One thing I've been trying to figure out here, do you have a sense of what Mark Meadows mean when he says he's willing to cooperate? Because it seems a little ambiguous at this point in time.

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Well, what we know is that Mr. Meadows has been engaged with the subcommittee or with the select committee through his attorney, and that it is a two-part test in order to be compliant with the work that we're doing in protecting democracy here. One is providing documents, which he has started to do, and the other is sitting down for testimony and talking with us.

So he has provided the first piece and continues to provide documents, and next we will sit down with him this week and engage. And so we'll assess his level of cooperation only after that interview is done.

MATTINGLY: Now the Select Committee chair, Bennie Thompson, says some of the planned questions will likely focus on excerpts from his new book. Do you expect any, at least of what you've seen so far of his writing, to be used against him in this deposition?

AGUILAR: Well, no. I think that, I think that our goal here is to ask him questions and to get to the truth, and so his level of cooperation will be important to the extent that he has already written about some of these items, we don't know, I haven't read the book, but we could ask about some of those pieces that he has put into print.

MATTINGLY: One of the things -- you know, you guys have taken, had a very different posture than, say, the very first impeachment investigation in terms of your willingness to be aggressive when it comes to contempt right off the bat.

[18:35:11]

But yet Steve Bannon who's now formally charged of contempt to Congress, still we're seeing potential witnesses, Eastman, Clark, it seemed to plan to defy the committee still. Why do you think that is?

AGUILAR: Well, I think it's important to note that we've had, for every uncooperative individual, we've had many, many others who have been cooperative. Over 250 witness interviews that we've taken. So there are a few outliers, clearly. Apologies.

But we still have maintained a robust amount of information that we've been able to gather. And so that's going to continue to be the posture that we take. And if individuals aren't willing to comply, clearly as we've shown with Mr. Bannon, there are some consequences that they could face.

MATTINGLY: And it's your sense, and again the posture is totally different from past investigative committees, but have you guys been forceful enough in trying to compel witnesses? Are there other steps you can take at this point?

AGUILAR: Well, we won't get into the investigative steps that we are taking, but I think it does speak volumes that the amount of information that we've been able to gather, 25,000 documents, they continue to pour in that is helpful in our effort both in questioning future individuals as well as laying the groundwork to build this report, that we'll talk about how we need to protect democracy and what happened on January 5th and January 6th.

So those are important components of it, and there are some outliers, but clearly we are taking a focus of gathering the truth and Chairman Thompson and Vice Chair Cheney have led that effort and we've been successful so far in gathering robust amount of information.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Several of your colleagues have continued to remind me, we're not seeing a lot of what's going on right now. We're focused on one or two individuals that we're not seeing.

Congressman, before I let you go. You're a member of Democratic leadership. There's plenty going on in your chamber right now, including this past week Congresswoman Ilhan Omar dealing with one of her colleagues, Republican Lauren Boebert. She said she expects House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to take action against Congresswoman Boebert over her anti-Muslim remarks. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: I have had a conversation with the speaker and I'm very confident she will take decisive action next week. As you know, when I first got to Congress I was worried that, you know, I wasn't going to be allowed to be sworn in because there was a ban on the hijab. She promised me that she'd take care of it. She fulfilled that promise. She's made another promise to me that she will take care of this.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And just so everybody is clear, there is no ambiguity here, Boebert implied that Congresswoman Omar was a suicide bomber and has made other derogatory remarks as well. When you look from a leadership perspective, and what you guys maybe considering, what action do you think is appropriate given those comments?

AGUILAR: Well, I think the action that should have been taken should have been by Republican leadership. They should police their own ranks, and in years past they would have done just that. But not anymore. And I think that's the bigger issue that we see today, is the Republican leader continues to allow his members to go off and be racist, or in this case, Islamophobic as well, and there is no consequence to that.

And I think that's the broader issue that we're seeing under the dome in the Capitol. But we will have that conversation this week, and within the Democratic family, we'll come to a decision and we will implement that. But I think it's more important that we protect our members and that we do everything we can to ensure that this is a place where people feel comfortable. Clearly that's not the case. And the Republican leadership lays a significant amount of blame for the current position that we're in.

MATTINGLY: Yes. A broader issue that seems to be a weekly issue at this point, depending on where you are with that conference.

All right, Congressman Pete Aguilar, thanks as always, sir, for your time.

AGUILAR: Thanks.

MATTINGLY: All right. Biden administration health officials out in full force today, reassuring the country that the U.S. has the tools it needs to take on COVID variants Delta and Omicron. Dr. Leana Wen is here to share her take coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:44:12]

MATTINGLY: More now on the emerging threat of the Omicron variant. How serious is it? So far, well, that answer seems unclear.

CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen, joins me to answer some questions or your questions. She's also the author of "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health."

Dr. Wen, we've seen a lot of anecdotal reports that say Omicron is only causing mild illness, but Dr. Anthony Fauci says that more study is needed. For the layman here who's only looking at those anecdotal reports, what can we draw from them, because they all seem to be -- positive may not be the right word, but at least better news than maybe people were concerned about six days ago? Am I drawing too many conclusions?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think it's still too early for us to say for sure, Phil, but this is what we're learning. We are seeing in South Africa that Omicron is very contagious, that it seems to be outpacing other variants there.

[18:45:05]

That's very concerning. On the other hand, it also looks like most of the people who are getting hospitalized or getting more severely ill are people who are unvaccinated. And that in a vaccinated individuals, Omicron does not seem to be causing severe disease. However, we need to have a lot more studies to tell for sure and also to understand this idea of immune escape. Do the vaccines and therapies that we have protect us well against Omicron?

They probably protect us somewhat and we also believe that getting a booster dose on top of them will give that additional level of antibody to protect us even more.

MATTINGLY: My lack of patience for those answers is definitely showing even though it's only been about a week. Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institute of Health, says that without a stronger global immune protection at this point, Omicron most certainly won't be the last variant we see. We're still less than 60 percent immunization here in the U.S. Many countries especially poorer nations are far less protected.

Is it just a given at this point that we're going to be dealing with this virus for years, maybe even longer?

WEN: I do think that COVID-19 is going to be here with us for the foreseeable future, but what we have to do is to turn this from an existential daily threat that we have to consider in every aspect of our lives into something that we can live with. And I believe that we are already very close to that point. We need to get more people vaccinated, of course, we also should have oral therapies, oral treatments that can reduce the likelihood of severe illness but also testing is going to be key.

Imagine if we can get to the point that students are tested before going to class, workers are tested before going into crowded conference rooms, people are getting tested before they get together for any holiday parties or events, that's how we're going to really begin to live with COVID.

MATTINGLY: I want to dig in a little bit more on something you said in the first answer. You know, experts believe vaccines will likely continue protecting against severe disease, at least based on what they've seen so far, but the mutated variant, as you noted, seems highly infectious at this point. What are the dangers of that dynamic?

WEN: If you have something that is a lot more contagious, even if it doesn't cause more severe disease, if the severity is exactly the same, you're going to get a lot more people infected, and as a result, just based on proportions, you're going to get a lot more people who will become severely ill and that could still overload, overwhelm our health care systems.

On the other hand, what we hope for, the best-case scenario, would be if you get a new variant, I don't know if Omicron is it, but if you get a new variant that really does not cause severe disease at all, but is a lot more contagious, that would be the best-case scenario. But I don't think that we are at a point where we can say that this is the case with Omicron at all.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Well, it would be nice to catch a break at some point.

Dr. Leana Wen, we appreciate your expertise as always. Thanks so much for your time.

WEN: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right. A Trump-era policy critics say is humane making a comeback under the Biden administration. The impact a court order is having on the so-called "Remain in Mexico" immigration rule, coming up next.

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[18:52:33]

MATTINGLY: A Trump-era policy that candidate Joe Biden vowed to undo is said to come back into effect tomorrow.

CNN's Matt Rivers explains.

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MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Remain in Mexico" is back for now. The signature Trump-era immigration policy which forced tens of thousands of people seeking asylum in the U.S. to wait out their claims across the border in Mexico is said to be reinstated on Monday. Trump held it up as an effective way to reduce illegal immigration, something then presidential candidate Joe Biden hammered him for.

BIDEN: This is the first president in the history of the United States of America that's anybody seeking asylum has to do it in another country. That's never happened before in America. They're sitting in squalor on the other side of the river.

RIVERS: Well, Biden is now the second president on that list. Despite terminating the program after he became president, a federal judge ruled over the summer the administration broke federal law in doing so. The Supreme Court declined to reverse the decision and after a new agreement was reached this week in Mexico, the program kicks off once again Monday.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We also believe in following the law and that's exactly what we're doing, as there was a ruling that required us moving forward with implementation.

RIVERS: Several changes have been made to the program according to U.S. officials. Migrants will be proactively asked if they fear going to Mexico, waiting to be processed within six months and categories of vulnerable people exempt will be expanded. But for critics, the changes do nothing to alleviate their concerns.

KENNJI KIZUKA, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST: We see people today even who are already living in these terrible circumstances, and yet more people will be returned to these dangers. RIVERS: During the Trump administration, tent cities along the border

sprang up. Migrants waiting for their asylum hearings, living in squalid conditions, easy prey for the myriad criminal organizations operating at the border.

New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez says his concern is that now the program is actually expanding, pointing to several examples in a statement saying in part, quote, "By adding new nationalities to this policy, applying Remain in Mexico border wide and limiting access to counsel, the administration is going far beyond a good faith implementation of the court's order.

For some migrants already living in Mexico they say the conditions they're forced to wade in on the way north are terrible.

JEAN PIERRE, HAITIAN MIGRANT (through translator): We sleep badly. There are children here. I think that the migration authority should find another way.

PETE DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Joe Biden once described the Remain in Mexico policy as dangerous, inhumane and goes against everything we stand for as a nation of immigrants, so why is he keeping it?

[18:55:10]

PSAKI: He continues to stand by exactly those comments and statements and the secretary of Homeland Security put out a memorandum conveying we want to end this program.

RIVERS: In an October 29th memo, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas says the administration is still formally preparing to end the program, saying it, quote, "fails to provide the fair process and humanitarian protections that individuals deserve under the law," but Mayorkas says he can't cancel the program until the courts let him.

It's unclear when that will happen and in the meantime as we've seen in our reporting throughout the year, be it in Honduras or southern Mexico, or the northern border, migrants are going to keep coming, only now getting to the U.S. just got that much harder.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.

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