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Closing Arguments Conclude in Jussie Smollett Trial; Lauren Boebert Under Fire Again; The Great Resignation; Congress Moves to Hold Mark Meadows in Contempt; Pfizer Announces Booster Shots Protect Against Omicron. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 08, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:01:01]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Brand-new hour. Glad you're here with us. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with what President Biden is calling good news in the pandemic. Pfizer says its early lab data show that a booster shot of its vaccine can neutralize the Omicron variant, which has now been detected in 21 states.

The president's chief medical adviser says he is encouraged by this booster news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: When you're entering into an arena of a new variant with very many unknown aspects about it, you always have a degree of anxiety about how it's going to turn out.

So the news we got last night and this morning about the effect of boosters does make me breathe a little bit better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: But Pfizer also says it's lab results found that two shots did not provide sufficient protection against Omicron.

The drop in vaccine efficacy matches the findings of a small study of just a dozen people in South Africa.

Let's bring in now Dr. William Schaffner of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, also an adviser to the CDC.

Dr. Schaffner, welcome back.

Let's start here with the definition of fully vaccinated. You advise the CDC. We have heard from Pfizer that the protection that defined fully vaccinated against the original straight, the two shots, you need three shots against Omicron. Is it time for the CDC to redefine fully vaccinated?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, DEPARTMENT OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE CHAIRMAN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Well, Victor, good to be with you.

And I think the short answer to your question is not yet. Let's not make things more confusing than they are. We're still trying to vaccinate people who are unvaccinated, get those boosters out, as you have suggested, and vaccinate children.

I think that going from the hard science, which was so encouraging -- I'm so glad to hear that information from Pfizer -- to public policy and redefining what's vaccinated, that's a large leap. Let's not make things more complicated than they are at the present time.

But encourage, absolutely, everybody to get their booster.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Schaffner, far be it for me to challenge your sage medical advice. But isn't it less confusing to say everybody needs three shots, this is a three-dose regimen?

SCHAFFNER: Well, Alisyn, I would love to tell everybody that. I'm telling them since this morning, absolutely.

And -- however, changing the requirements of what fully vaccinated means, I think, has all kinds of downstream effects for all kinds of institutions in the country. I don't think we're quite there yet. And, remember, there's still talk of having an Omicron booster perhaps at the beginning of next year, sometime in March. That would confuse things even more.

Let's keep things as simple as possible and absolutely encourage everybody to get their booster.

BLACKWELL: You mentioned getting children vaccinated. What does this new revelation from Pfizer mean for the timing of the doses for vaccinating children, for the dosages themselves?

SCHAFFNER: Well, I think Victor, the vaccines are -- have an emergency use authorization for children 5 and up, and beyond that for some -- everybody aged 18 and over now.

And so I think that the intervals are set because they were studied in the trials. We know that they're safe and effective. They're working. We need to stick with that. Let's not change anything. We know these vaccines are safe and effective. We need to get the children in. That's the issue.

Let's not tinker with the intervals at the moment.

CAMEROTA: But when do you think that teenagers, let's say, will be able to get boosted in this country?

[15:05:02]

SCHAFFNER: Well, a teenager who's received two doses needs to wait six months before they get their booster. And that's currently the interval that's recommended and certainly the

interval that I would suggest we follow going forward. It's out there. It's really very clear. Let's all do that.

CAMEROTA: Dr. William Schaffner, thank you.

SCHAFFNER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to this. The so-called great resignation continues, with an estimated 4.2 million U.S. workers quitting their jobs in October.

BLACKWELL: CNN business reporter Matt Egan is with us now.

So, I mean, this has been going on now for, what, three months, these four million-plus-per-month resignations. What's this mean?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, in many ways, it's sort of like a lot of workers are free agents, kind of like in baseball.

Imagine if you had a great season in baseball. Maybe you just won the World Series. You're realizing that maybe resigning with the home team is not the best move for your finances. Maybe there's a big city team that can pay you more.

A lot of workers realize that they have all the leverage right now. There's a near record number of job openings in the United States. The latest numbers out today show 11 million job openings in October. That's just shy of the record 11.1 million that was set in July, hotels and restaurant job openings up sharply.

There's a million job openings just in manufacturing. And so that's why people are quitting. We saw this near record; 4.2 million people quit their jobs. The previous record had just been set the month before, 4.4 million. And companies are so desperate to hire that they have to pay up to keep the workers they have and to attract new talent.

A new report came out today showing that, next year, companies are expected to raise pay by nearly 4 percent. That's the biggest jump since 2008. I think that all of this really shows how strong the jobs market is. I mean, the unemployment rate is down. Wages are up. And people feel so good about their prospects to get a better job that they're quitting at near record paces.

One other point, though, is that this is contributing to inflation, because companies are facing much higher labor costs. And they are passing along some of those expenses to consumers.

CAMEROTA: What's happening with gas prices?

EGAN: Gas prices are ticking lower. The national average is down to $3.34 a gallon. That's not cheap, but it is a seven-week low.

I think the better news is that there's some forecasts out there calling for a more considerable drop in gas prices. The Energy Department's forecasting arm, they're saying $3.01 in January will be the average, and that, next year, $2.88. That is a considerable drop from what we saw recently.

Citigroup put out this report saying that there's going to be a radical drop in energy prices. I think the bad news is sort of the why. One factor there is supply. They think that the U.S. and OPEC will be pumping more oil. OK.

But the other point is there's concern about demand, specifically what the Omicron variant is going to do to the economy and to the travel industry. So that's something we have to keep an eye on. Of course, these are just forecasts.

And I think, at the end of the day, so much depends -- whether it's the jobs market or energy prices or inflation, so much depends on Omicron and what happens next in the pandemic.

BLACKWELL: All right, Matt Egan, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Matt.

EGAN: Thanks, guys.

BLACKWELL: Now to Capitol Hill. The January 6 Committee says it is moving forward to hold Mark Meadows in contempt of Congress after he ducked the scheduled deposition today.

Now, before he stopped cooperating, Meadows turned over key information, according to the committee.

CAMEROTA: That includes a November 7, 2020, e-mail discussing the appointment of alternative slates of electors. If you don't like what the first ones say, just find new ones.

At January 5 e-mail regarding a 38-page PowerPoint briefing titled "Election Fraud, Foreign Interference and Options for January 6," plus a January 5 e-mail about having the National Guard on standby.

Here to discuss is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer, this is fascinating, I mean, just knowing that, first, Mark Meadows handed over thousands of these pages, which I assume will be so helpful to the committee, but I guess I'm confused about -- I understand why he stopped wanting to cooperate, because I think that there's some reporting that President Trump has gotten angry.

But the fact that he cooperated so much to begin with, do they still need him or are all of these documents basically gold for them?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's a little above, Alisyn. I mean, the documents are gold, but he withheld thousands and thousands of other documents and thousands of text messages.

So if these are so important to what the committee is doing, think about what the ones that he withheld are. I mean, those are going to be double gold or platinum or however you want to call it.

So I think that this is good, but he changed his mind probably because he doesn't want to be held in criminal contempt. He doesn't want to be held in civil contempt. He wanted to kind of skate that line. And now he has gone the other way with new counsel. So we will see how this part plays out.

[15:10:12]

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about that moving forward on the criminal referral or the vote at least first in the House. Steve Bannon is a clear case. He did not engage or cooperate at all. Mark Meadows handed over thousands of pages, said that he was willing to answer questions, written answers as well.

Does that weaken potentially a case against him for -- by the DOJ for not complying?

RODGERS: It does. It's one of the things that does. Also keep in mind, of course, that Mark Meadows, unlike Steve Bannon, was actually an employee of the executive branch and a close adviser of the president at the relevant time.

So that makes it a stronger case for privilege as well. But the fact that he is now stonewalling them -- he did initially cooperate, but now he is saying not only is he not turning anything over. He won't even show up to parse through the documents that he admitted when he turned them over were not privileged.

So the case isn't a weak one for holding him in criminal contempt. I'm just concerned that, given the issue of his being an executive branch employee, coupled with the fact that he initially cooperated, it's a more challenging case, for sure, for the Department of Justice.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Adam Schiff has said that it appears that some of the potential witnesses, I assume the Bannons and Roger Stones of the world, appear to be coordinating behind the scenes.

Is that -- is there anything wrong with that?

RODGERS: No, not really.

I mean, defendants are allowed to coordinate. They, in fact, often will come up with joint defense agreement, so that they can talk without worrying about waiving attorney-client privilege. The only issue is, it goes to their good faith. If they're going to assert privileges like executive privilege or the attorney-client privilege or the Fifth Amendment invocation of rights, it has to be sincere and in good faith.

So, depending on what they're saying to each other, evidence that, in fact, they're coordinating as an effort to stonewall all as a team kind of goes to that good faith. So it matters in that sense.

CAMEROTA: Understood.

OK, Jennifer Rodgers, thank you for helping us understand it all.

RODGERS: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, Congresswoman Lauren Boebert is blazing into another controversy, this time involving her children. And she's just, I guess, mimicking another controversial Christmas photo.

BLACKWELL: And, right now, Instagram's CEO is answering questions from lawmakers, defending the app's safety records when it comes to its teen users.

We will have an update.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:17]

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Lauren Boebert is courting more controversy.

The Colorado Republican tweeted this picture last night showing her four boys holding semiautomatic guns. You will remember that one of her Republican colleagues, Thomas Massie, made headlines last week with a similar holiday photo of his family.

BLACKWELL: Now, House Democrats were already calling for Boebert to be disciplined for her repeated Islamophobic comments about Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

Astead Herndon is a CNN political analyst and national political reporter for "The New York Times."

Astead, welcome.

I got to read some tweets because there's a back-and-forth that's relevant here.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez retweeted that photo and tweeted: "Tell me again where Christ said use the commemoration of my birth to flex violent weapons for personal political gain. LOL at all the years Republicans spent on cultural hysteria of society erasing Christmas and its meaning when they're doing fine all on their own."

And then Boebert replied with: "AOC uses her position as a congresswoman to attack my boys with their Christmas presents."

First, I don't know if it's a good idea for Boebert to go online here and admit that her 8-year-old, who's not tall enough to ride Space Mountain, now has a semiautomatic rifle, if those guns are real.

But, also, this plays right into what Lauren Boebert wants. This AOC back-and-forth seems like the strategy. It's the point of putting the picture up in the first place.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, exactly. This is an attempt to kind of shift the conversation onto terms that we know that the congresswoman, Boebert, will be more comfortable with. They want to have that conversation about guns. They want to move this to the culture war about Christmas and its meaning and wants to say -- and wants to imply that Representative Ocasio-Cortez attacked her children, which that tweet did not do.

But we know this is an attempt to dissuade from the original facts of this situation. What the congresswoman said about Ilhan Omar was undeniably nativist, was undeniably Islamophobic. And that is what caused the congresswoman, the Republican congresswoman, to apologize herself, right, that was the -- that -- she already apologized for the action that she took initially.

This is now an attempt to switch the conversation from that. But we know that these are Republicans who would rather have the turf be on guns, be on Christmas, be on that culture war, than the identity politics that they themselves are playing and the Islamophobia that Congresswoman Omar had to experience.

CAMEROTA: But talk about the war on Christmas, is there any better exhibit A than brandishing semiautomatic weapons?

Where in the Bible, I'm just curious, does it say brandish your semiautomatic weapons in honor of Christ's birthday? I mean, that's basically what Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is saying, but a lot of people are saying it.

[15:20:03]

What Massie has done here and Boebert, it's so far from the spirit of Christ, I mean, I don't know when they last read their Bible is, but it's so -- I mean, OK, so that's one war on Christmas that they're, I guess, turning into their own bastardized version of it.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But then it's also days after a school shooting, yet another school shooting.

How do we think the families in Michigan feel about this? How do we think all the traumatized students, all the traumatized sheriff's deputies who had to go in and see the aftermath of that? I mean, beyond any culture war, just the incredible insensitivity is, I think, really striking.

HERNDON: Yes, it shows that narrow focus that Congresswoman Boebert is thinking about, is only thinking about how to switch the conversation back to terms that she is more comfortable with, and is not talking about that larger implication, that larger feeling, the fact of the country is coming days off of the shooting.

Now, I can't speak to how the victims in Michigan or other places will feel, folks who have experienced gun violence would feel about that photo. But I can say that, as the son of a pastor who spent a lot of Christmases and Christmas Eves in church services listening to the nativity story, I have never heard the Christmas story be linked with explicit political acts like this and the need for guns and weapons. This is their own version of Christmas and their own version of a

story that just suits their political interests.

BLACKWELL: And speaking of political interest, I want everyone to listen to what Representative Dan Crenshaw said recently about a wing of his party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): Two types of members of Congress. There's performance artists, and there's legislators.

Now, the performance artists are the ones that get all the attention. They're the ones you think are more conservative because they know how to say slogans real well. The grifters in our midst know that the quickest way to your heart is to convince you that a fellow conservative betrayed them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Speaking of there at that event, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert, others.

I mean, Liz Cheney, a conservative Republican, her home state doesn't even consider her a Republican anymore. It really is the redefining of what it means to be a conservative.

HERNDON: Absolutely.

And Crenshaw is making an interesting point here in trying to refocus the energy, saying, you should look at people who are legislating in your interests, kind of that mantra of getting back to kind of core conservative values.

The problem for him is, this is a party that's been overtaken by Donald Trump, who is the biggest example of someone who used slogans and language and contradictory conservative stances to find his way into popularity of the Republican Party.

The congressman there is trying to fight a war that has already been -- has already taken place. This is Donald Trump's party. And the quickest thing Republicans can do in Congress or to raise their national profile to fund-raise on that grassroots level is to align themselves with him in word.

That is totally separate from legislation. That's totally separate from policy-making. The base has decided that what is most important is that Trumpy rhetoric, that aligning with him in their cultural -- in their cultural grievances, even more so than actually enacting policies.

They're going to run on the words, whether Congressman Crenshaw likes it or not.

BLACKWELL: Astead Herndon, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Astead.

HERNDON: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Right now, President Biden is in Kansas City, Missouri, promoting his infrastructure law.

A few minutes ago, he toured a body shop for a mass transit vehicle at the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority. And he's going to deliver some remarks soon.

CAMEROTA: And the White House has rolled out new branding for it called Building a Better America.

It includes a new Web site to showcase how the $1.2 trillion law is being used already in communities. The president and top Democrats are hoping Americans will see major benefits from this infrastructure spending ahead of next year's midterm elections.

BLACKWELL: There was emotional testimony in the Kim Potter trial. She's the former police officer who says she mistook her handgun for a Taser when she shot and killed Daunte Wright.

Now, the victim's mother just took the stand and recounted her final conversation with her son.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:01]

BLACKWELL: Closing arguments just wrapped in the trial of Jussie Smollett.

Prosecutors spoke for close to two hours before Smollett's defense team took over.

CAMEROTA: The former "Empire" actor faces six counts of disorderly conduct for allegedly staging a racist, homophobic attack against himself. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us from Chicago.

So, Omar, each side is accusing the other side of putting liars on the stand. What were the key arguments, would you say, from each side?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, Alisyn, after nearly three years, this criminal trial of Jussie Smollett is set to head to the jury. They're getting their instructions right now.

But the defense in their closing argument spoke for nearly two hours. And of the Osundairo brothers, who have -- who testified that Jussie Smollett paid them to stage a fake hate crime, the defense attorney Nenye Uche said, they lied, not only to this court, but that they lied to this jury as well.

He also went on to say that: "Mr. Smollett has been in Chicago five years. To go into Obama's city to pretend there are Trump supporters running around with MAGA hats? Give me a break."