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New Details Emerge in January 6 Probe; Lawsuit Filed Over Michigan School Shooting; FDA Authorizes Pfizer Booster For 16 and Up. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 09, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:18]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Parents, listen up, the FDA today issuing emergency use authorization of the Pfizer booster for teenagers 16 and up. New research shows a significant increase in protection against COVID after that third dose.

BLACKWELL: And the U.S. has hit an important milestone. More than 200 million Americans are now fully vaccinated. That's more than 60 percent of the country.

But cases, hospitalizations and deaths are up. And we know that the unvaccinated among us are being hit the hardest.

CNN's Alexandra Field has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Underscoring the importance of boosters, new studies out of Israel show a third shot of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine resulted in 10 times fewer infections and reduced deaths by more than 90 percent. As things stand now, just about a quarter of vaccinated Americans are boosted.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: What we do know now is that the third dose appears to provide very strong additional antibody response, including against Omicron.

FIELD: And Pfizer's CEO is already talking about looking at the possibility of a fourth shot down the road.

DR. ALBERT BOURLA, CEO, PFIZER: I think we will need the fourth dose.

WEN: I'm glad that they are developing the fourth booster, if you will. But I think it's far too soon for us to say whether it's something that's going to be needed.

FIELD: Access to boosters now expanding to people as young as 16 in the U.S., even as new studies show there's a long way to go in convincing parents to get even a first shot for their kids, with some citing safety concerns and a lack of information. About three in 10 parents now say they will definitely not vaccinate their children, according to a new Kaiser Family Foundation survey.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Right now, we are still losing more than 1,000 people a day, 1,000 people a day dying from COVID, and it's not from Omicron. It's from the Delta variant. And it's important that people get vaccinated.

FIELD: Across the country, COVID cases are surging again, hitting the unvaccinated the hardest.

Delta is ravaging the Northeast. And more than half of all new hospitalizations in the past month have come from the Midwest, especially Michigan and Ohio, which together account for one-quarter of those hospitalizations.

JOEL BOTLER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, MAINE MEDICAL CENTER: There is really no more room for -- at this point. And we're doing everything possible to increase that capacity.

FIELD: Maine now reaching its own record high hospitalizations and calling up its National Guard to help alleviate the strain on its health care system. New York also activating its National Guard, amid mounting worry about the weeks ahead.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: We expect to see other areas of the country also light up in the next several weeks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: And really every day now we are hearing more and more about the importance of boosters.

However, the technical definition of fully vaccine has not changed. Dr. Fauci has been saying that's a matter of when, not if, but already some important signs that we're moving in that direction. Five colleges and universities now announcing that they will require a COVID booster for their students, everyone on campus, really a key part of the fight.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting.

Alexandra Field, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Dr. Kate O'Brien. She's the director of immunization, vaccines and biologicals at the World Health Organization.

Dr. O'Brien, thanks so much for being here.

Why isn't the WHO supportive of boosters for every adult? DR. KATE O'BRIEN, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: The highest priority for

all countries around the world is to assure that the vaccines are administered to people who are at highest risk of severe disease, hospitalization and death.

We're in a situation right now where many countries have not even vaccinated their health care workers against COVID-19. And that supply is only just getting to countries in the past six to eight weeks to actually have sufficient supply to get to that highest priority group.

It's not that the WHO is against boosters. We're really about prioritization. And this has to be the highest priority for every country around the world.

CAMEROTA: And why not do both? I mean, in other words, why aren't they mutually -- why are they mutually exclusive? Why not say, for every country where many people are fully vaccinated, they need to get boosters; for the countries where people haven't gotten their first shot, they need to get their first shot?

Dr. O'Brien?

I think we're having problems Dr. O'Brien's audio, which we will get back as soon as we possibly can.

OK, we will be back with her as soon as possible.

BLACKWELL: Because an important point there, exactly. Why can't we do both, really?

CAMEROTA: Can't we? I mean, shouldn't the WHO be suggesting that? But I know that she has an answer to that.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So I look forward to hearing it.

[14:05:01]

BLACKWELL: Stand by for the answer.

All right, so let's turn now to Michigan. And the first lawsuit related to that fatal school shooting in Oxford has just been filed.

CAMEROTA: The family of a student who was shot in the neck, but survived the attack, is suing the school district, the principal, two teachers, and several other administrators for more than $100 million.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is here with details.

Shimon, the claims in this lawsuit are explosive?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

And it's a lot based on what already investigators have already learned in this investigation. The overall arching theme of this is that the police should have been called in to those meetings that the school had with the alleged shooter and his parents.

That is what they're saying here, that the fact that they did not do that violated the constitutional rights, the rights to people, for these students to be safe in this school, and, therefore, they have filed this $100 million lawsuit.

One piece of information that is sort of new and we're still trying to run it down is that they say that the shooter, the alleged shooter, posted a tweet the night before where he says -- quote -- "See you tomorrow, Oxford."

They say that -- here's exactly what it says. It says that: "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. See you tomorrow, Oxford."

So there's some questions of whether or not that was actually his account. There was a lot of threats surrounding this school really the day of and the day after, and there was a lot of bad information. So it's not clear if this is exactly related to the alleged shooter.

But, of course, this is something they're saying in this lawsuit that, look, it was very much obvious that there was going to be something here, there were problems with the alleged shooter. The school should have done more.

And, certainly, again, we have heard this so much that week that I was there from the authorities, from the police, from the DA, in how angry they are that the school didn't do more. This is one of many lawsuits I bet to come. Remember, there are some 1, 800 students at the school. I spoke to someone there this morning. They are still in so much pain and grieving every, every day.

They don't even know if they're going to be able to go back to that school. So there's still a lot more that we need to learn. And key in all of this is the school. We still have yet to hear really from the school. They post videos. But the superintendent has refused to take any questions.

They have not had any press conferences to lay out what they knew and the timeline of events, which I think is so key here. So we have still yet to learn. The authorities there, the prosecutor, they're still investigating. We could see more charges. Probably not going to happen, but it's possible certainly as they dig through what the school knew, and how much information and what they could have done more.

So there's still obviously a lot more to come here.

CAMEROTA: Yes, if the claims in that lawsuit are true, it is damning.

Shimon, thank you very much. We will look forward to your reporting.

OK, we have reconnected now with Dr. Kate O'Brien.

Dr. O'Brien, I'm glad that you can hear me. Sorry about that little mixup. What I was asking is, why are they mutually exclusive? Why doesn't the

WHO say, for the countries where millions of people have already been fully vaccinated, you need to get boosted; for the countries where people have not yet had gotten their first vaccine, you need to get your first vaccine?

O'BRIEN: Well, for many, many months over the past year, the supply has simply not been available for countries, all countries around the world to prioritize and vaccinate the highest priority groups.

We have been calling for that more equitable distribution of vaccines for many months. In the past six to eight weeks, doses are starting to flow in much more high volumes to countries that are very far behind. Less than 5 percent of populations in Africa are fully vaccinated.

We now have eight times as many doses are being given as booster doses as there are primary doses being given in low-income countries. So it's really been a matter of equity. Those doses that are being given as booster doses could have been given as primary doses and gotten health care workers, people who are elderly in countries around the world with those doses.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

But, as of today, do you still believe that rich countries like the United States are hoarding supply?

O'BRIEN: Well, really, what we need to look at is whether there's sufficient supply going to countries that have not yet even reached 10 percent vaccination coverage. Those doses are flowing now.

And there has been great generosity of countries to donate doses, along with the doses that have been purchased through the COVAX facility. So we're certainly in a situation now that's very different than it was even eight weeks ago. And that's a good news story.

The other point that I think we should focus on, however, is that, given that the focus continues to be on protecting people from the severe end of the disease spectrum, the evidence on booster doses for just how much they're really needed for protecting against hospitalization, death and severe disease, the data really show that there is some minor to modest reduction in the performance of those vaccines.

We really have to focus on making sure that people who are not yet vaccinated get vaccinated with their primary doses, even while countries do whatever they can to optimize vaccination for other outcomes as well.

[14:10:08]

CAMEROTA: Yes.

I mean, I was just reading these two new -- about these two new Israeli studies that seem to show that boosters really help and may even nullify the effect of Omicron. But, of course, we're waiting for information that.

But I want to move on to the travel ban, because I know that the WHO doesn't like blanket travel bans, sort of ham-handed approaches to this. Are you calling on the U.S. to lift its travel ban on African countries?

O'BRIEN: Well, listen, we have to use all means possible to control what's happening with the COVID pandemic.

But it's not going to work to have travel bans. First of all, the risk reduction measures should be proportional. And there are means by which we can create protection without having travel bans, which really impact people's lives and livelihoods.

We do think that vaccination is obviously a very important and useful thing. But it should not be the only thing that is determining whether people can travel. There are many other means of testing, quarantining upon arrival. There are a variety of things that are proportional in terms of their measures that will allow free travel, free trade without these severe restrictions.

CAMEROTA: And very quickly -- I only have 10 seconds left -- does the WHO expect tomorrow, meaning Friday, to have new information on Omicron's transmissibility and severity?

O'BRIEN: We're looking. We are expecting new information to continue rolling out on a day-by-day basis.

We, of course, are looking at transmissibility. We're also looking at the performance of the vaccines. And I think the most important thing that we can really assure people of is that the measures that we have -- first of all, we're in a Delta pandemic.

Delta is the most important variant that is circulating right now. The vaccines work really well against Delta.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

O'BRIEN: And it's vaccine/and. It's vaccines/and, not vaccines only.

CAMEROTA: OK. Dr. Kate O'Brien, thank you very much. We will be looking for that new information as soon as you have it. Thanks for being here.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Former President Donald Trump is facing more legal troubles today. The attorney general of New York wants to depose him soon over claims of fraud at the Trump Organization.

CAMEROTA: Also today, we're learning new details about what was in the documents handed over to the January 6 Committee by Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.

And later this hour: A Michigan hospital endures its fourth wave of COVID patients. We have a live report from Lansing ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:18]

CAMEROTA: A source tells CNN that New York's attorney general is seeking to depose former President Trump as part of a civil fraud investigation into the Trump Organization and whether it manipulated the values of its properties.

Letitia James is requesting the deposition the first week of January.

BLACKWELL: And in the January 6 investigation, CNN is learning new details about what Mark Meadows turned over to the select committee before he decided to sue them.

A source tells CNN the documents include text messages and e-mails from the former chief of staff's personal cell phone, and they detail what Donald Trump was doing and not doing during that riot.

Meadows talked about his lawsuit with FOX.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Obviously, Congress is going to do what they were -- already intended to do, which is hold me in contempt.

The fact is, is that we have been trying for weeks and weeks to make accommodations to share non-privileged -- and I want to stress that -- non-privileged information, while protecting the executive privilege that President Trump has claimed.

We received a subpoena that went to our telecommunication carrier that was so broad that you would have to do some type of legislative contortions to find a legislative reason for that subpoena.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right, joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, former assistant U.S. attorney, and CNN political commentator Amanda Carpenter.

Welcome to both.

Elie, let me start with you on this attempt from the New York A.G. to get a deposition with Trump. Is that likely to happen, that he will one day sit down and answer those questions?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, not without a fight, Victor.

First of all, this is what happens when you're no longer president. The reason Donald Trump's been able to drag his feet so long is because he argued, while he was in the Oval Office, you can't depose a sitting president. That managed to gum up the works.

Now he, of course, doesn't have that protection anymore. Normally, in this scenario, what you would do if you were Donald Trump or maybe anybody but Donald Trump is you would take the Fifth. You know you're being investigated criminally for this same thing.

Now, in a civil suit, someone wants to depose you. That's what the Fifth Amendment's for. Is Donald Trump going to take the Fifth? I doubt it, given what he said about the Fifth before. But he will go to court and argue that the deposition is improper, it's intended to harass, that kind of thing.

I don't think he will win, but the strategy thus far has been delay. I think I will keep doing that.

CAMEROTA: OK, Amanda, let's move on to the January 6 House committee investigating what happened there.

We keep reporting on all of these impediments that they're hitting because different witnesses are stonewalling. But Congresswoman Liz Cheney is basically tweeting out that they're continuing apace. And I think that she wants to know that they're not being stymied at all.

So she's saying: "For those interested in the committee's progress, the committee has already met with nearly 300 witnesses. We hear from four more key figures in the investigation today. We're conducting multiple depositions and interviews every week. We have received exceptionally interesting and important documents from a number of witnesses, including Mark Meadows. He has turned over many texts from his private cell phone from January 6.

[14:20:19]

"We have litigated and won Trump's executive privilege case in federal district court. The federal appellate court has expedited the appeal. And we have just been a ruling regarding many more Trump White House documents soon. The investigation is firing on all cylinders. Do not be misled."

It just goes on. So, in other words, she wants everyone to know it's working, this investigation.

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I think we tend to focus on the people who are not talking to the committee.

But, as she points out, hundreds of people are. I mean, just earlier this week, there was an explosive memo that Politico obtained that was first given to the January 6 Committee from the top lawyer for the commanding general of the D.C. National Guard that essentially just blew holes into the story coming from Army leadership about why there was that critical three-hour delay between when the Capitol was breached and it was finally secured.

And the reason that person came out, Colonel Earl Matthews, is because there was a Pentagon report that cleared the Army of all wrongdoing, essentially, saying they acted appropriately. And he's like, hey, you never spoke to me, and I have information. He can back it up. He has a timeline. And so he behind the scenes has been talking to the committee. And,

boom, just out of nowhere, there's a 36-page memo that we get to go through this week. And so I do think this gets to why Meadows is squirming now, because I think that he thought he could draw the lines around the kinds of information that he would disclose to the committee.

But now he is, as we are all finding out, the committee has a lot of information and a lot of people that will corroborate stories or will say, no, that's not quite what happened, and, oh, by the way, here's my phone log. He may just be in over his head and is realizing that fighting this and dragging it out is his only chance right now.

BLACKWELL: And some of that reporting is from Politico. CNN has not been able to confirm some of those details.

But let me move on to the Meadows squirming, as Amanda calls it, and, Elie, this lawsuit that was filed. Of course, we heard from the committee they were going to move forward with the referral of votes. First, does this lawsuit make that harder to do to charge him criminally with contempt?

HONIG: I think, at the margins, it might, because his argument will be, unlike Steve Bannon, I didn't just sort of straight up stonewall. I made these efforts. I negotiated. I even gave him some documents.

But, by the way, those documents that we're now learning about, I mean, what a gold mine. We're talking about texts sent by and to the key players as January 6 was unfolding. And the committee has them. Mark Meadows cannot take them back.

And if you noticed in Liz Cheney's tweet right now, she had the little phrase, including Mark Meadows. I mean, she's indicating that these are serious. And, as an investigator, if I'm on the committee, I'm thinking, well, I want the rest of them. I'm going to fight for them. And I want to depose Mark Meadows. Is that going to happen? Probably not.

Their only option really now is to seek criminal contempt. But it is a bit more complicated to charge him criminally.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Amanda, I want to move on to the big picture. And that is what's going on with democracy.

And, today, for the first time, President Biden is holding this democracy summit at the White House. And he's talking to international leaders about other democracies that are also in peril, as here in the United States we see evidence of this one being.

And I just wonder what you think. Do you think -- I mean, there's -- President Biden has put so much effort into the Build Back Better bill, things like that. None of that will matter if autocracy takes over in the United States. Do you think that he has focused enough on the voting restrictions that we're seeing, at all the threats to democracy right here at home?

CARPENTER: No.

But, number one, President Biden should be doing this kind of international stuff. It is important to hold hands with people who support democracies, because, too often, human rights go down when authoritarianism goes up. So that is good.

But I think we should also remember that President Biden isn't the only person in this administration that can be doing things. Yes, it's unfortunate that he hasn't been able to make progress on voting rights. But, really, what I am more concerned about going forward is the potential for election subversion in upcoming elections.

This seems to be something that not enough people are thinking about. I think it's good that Merrick Garland over at the Department of Justice is looking at some laws across the states. But I think, just across the administration, there are many more messengers who could be much more vocal on these issues, explaining what they're doing, why they're suing the state, what benefits that people will get from it, because this stuff shouldn't just be discussed in conferences and courts.

It needs to be a part of our daily conversation that goes hand in hand with our elections.

[14:25:01]

I agree, but like who? I mean, who should we be looking to for that message?

CARPENTER: Merrick Garland, number one, Kamala Harris, number two.

I mean, name somebody, and you tell me why they shouldn't be speaking about it. But those were the first two that immediately come to my mind.

BLACKWELL: All right, Amanda Carpenter, Elie Honig, thank you both.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, guys.

BLACKWELL: President Biden spoke a short time ago with Ukraine's leader, as he tries to ease tensions there in the region. What was discussed on that call? We will talk about that next.

CAMEROTA: And gut-wrenching testimony at the trial of Kim Potter, the former Minnesota cop who says she accidentally shot and killed Daunte Wright.

Wright's girlfriend was on the stand. And we will play you what she had to say coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)