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Supreme Court Allows Abortion Restrictions to Remain in Texas; Bob Dole's Funeral Service Held at National Cathedral. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

REV. MICHAEL CURRY, PRESIDING BISHOP AND PRIMATE OF THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH: In the blessing of God almighty, the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, be on you and remain with you in this world in which we live this day and forevermore.

Amen.

REV. JAN NAYLOR COPE, PROVOST, WASHINGTON NATIONAL CATHEDRAL: Let us go forth in the name of Christ.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES: Thanks be to God.

(MUSIC)

[13:07:44]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: A very powerful and well-deserved tribute to a great American patriot, the late Senator Bob Dole.

We heard a really moving tribute today from so many, but especially from the president of the United States, Joe Biden, celebrating his longtime colleague as a master of the Senate, a man guided by devotion to country and always honest.

John King, we lost another great member of the Greatest Generation.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We did.

And there's so much -- many rich political stories to tell, so many. This man lived a life of so many transitions within his party and within this country, but I think it's first to start with just the fact -- you see the dignitaries there paying tribute.

This is just a remarkable American life. This is a son of the Depression who rose to the heights of political power, someone who nearly died in World War II, who fought, through personal strength and perseverance, to recover, through the generosity of his neighbors in Russell, Kansas, was transported to Chicago for several of the surgeries he needed, and just a stubborn, persistent resilience to rise to power. That power has so many chapters, and we can talk about those. But I

think just -- first, just to pay tribute, Jamie noted this before the service. We are losing this generation. There's nothing we can do about that, the clock and time.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: The Greatest Generation.

KING: The Greatest Generation.

How much we could use their voices now at a time American democracy is under threat from within, truth is under threat from within. We need the people with just these unimpeachable resumes to talk about faith and patriotism and truth and trust.

And, sadly, we are losing.

BLITZER: And, Jamie, the attendance, the invited guests who showed up underscored how great a leader Bob Dole was.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You see President Clinton there. This was a bipartisan group.

I just want to note that that was chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Milley who escorted Elizabeth Dole.

I just want to underscore something John said about words to describe this man, shrewd, ambitious, determined, resilient. He was 98 years old, with all of the health problems, the pain that he had gone through.

And I would just like to say that, when he ran for president, he couldn't go back, as you said, to the Senate, but, without anyone knowing, until reporters caught on years later, he went to the World War II Memorial every weekend, in the heat of the summer, in the rain, in the snow, to greet veterans he did not no, to salute them. Sometimes, he would go meet their planes.

[13:10:23]

I just think that dedication to service is something we don't see very much.

BLITZER: And they're heading, Gloria, now to the World War II Memorial, the motorcade, the hearse, the casket. They will be going there, a place that Bob dole so, so cherished and loved.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, he told me this story that, when he was at the White House after the election which he had lost, President Clinton presented him the Medal of Freedom.

And he saw the plans, the 3-D plans, for the memorial, for the World War II Memorial. And, of course, they asked him to raise some money, some money for it. And he said he would. They wanted him to raise $70 million. He raised them $170 million. And he made the point to me of saying that this was the P.S. to his

legacy, because his legacy was all the things that he had achieved in Congress. But he also made another point which I think is really a part of his life, because he lost two presidential elections. He was on a vice presidential ticket, lost.

He said, it's tough to lose. We all want to be winners, but we have got to understand that, if you lose, there is still a life out there. You can either move forward, close the chapter, and then start a new one.

And that's exactly what his life has been.

BLITZER: Let's listen in for a moment.

Nia, they're going to be heading over to the World War II Memorial to spend a little time there, the place that he helped develop and build. It was so important to him, a great veteran of World War II.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It was important to him.

And something else that was very important to Bob Dole was empowering women. We heard from his former chief of staff, Sheila Burke. He was the first Senate leader of either party to appoint a woman as chief of staff. And in so many ways, as I was growing up and watching him on television, his wife, to me, really symbolized that he wasn't afraid of being around and partnering with a powerful woman.

And you see her there. She's 85 now. She was a Phi Beta Kappa Duke graduate, a Harvard Law graduate as well. And I think we saw that part of Bob Dole, part of his legacy as well, empowering women. When he left the Senate, many of the women, many of the people in his staff in the top positions were women as well.

BORGER: And can we just talk about him actually making the decision to leave the Senate when he was running for the presidency?

Because he said, I had told everyone that I would devote my full time and energy to becoming their president.

Do people do that now? They look at the number of years they have got left. They figure out, well, I can try this. If it doesn't work, I have a job to go back to. And Bob Dole did not take that route. And, by the way, everyone called him Bob Dole today, I might add, because very often called himself Bob Dole.

GANGEL: The third person.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: If you think about it, he's an Eisenhower Republican, and yet his life in politics started with Richard Nixon. He was Gerald Ford's running mate, lost in that election, as Jamie noted, the vice presidential candidate in the post-Watergate election. Then along came Ronald Reagan, then George H.W. Bush, then Donald Trump at the end. Bob Dole lived this remarkable -- several transitions, several big chapters in the history of the Republican Party. He navigated them. He was never terribly comfortable in some of them.

It's interesting people talking say about his hidden faith, if you will. Bob Dole in the Senate or on the campaign trail running for president did not like to talk about faith. I first met him in the 1988 campaign, where he, like I, was fascinated by Pat Robertson and the rise of Christian conservatives.

Dole's view was, you did that inside. You didn't talk about that outside. In his '96 campaign, the second day of his campaign, the first day was to prove to the right, the base of the party, that he was solid on taxes. The second day was about voluntary prayer in schools, standing up against Bill Clinton, who he thought was soft on drugs, Christian conservatives.

He constantly had to tack, if you will, to deal with changes in the party. And he didn't like that. He didn't like that. He thought the hard work you put in should be it. If you work hard, you should earn the trust and respect. But he constantly had to deal with a party in transition and, in the end, turned on Trump as well, who he embraced, one of the few big leaders to embrace Donald Trump, was not a fan of the big lie, thought it was very dangerous to the democracy that he risked his life to protect.

[13:15:00]

BLITZER: And, as you pointed out, Jamie, I thought it was really moving that Elizabeth Dole was being escorted by General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Milley a very close friend of Bob Dole over many years.

GANGEL: And certainly someone that Donald Trump is -- does not like.

Could I add kind of one other thing? And that is about his sense of humor, because even though this is a sad occasion, he was 98. He lived this big life. He would zing others, but he had this incredible self- deprecating sense of humor.

Right after he lost the presidential run, he went on "David Letterman," and David Letterman said to him, in classic sense, so what have you been doing? And Bob Dole said, apparently not enough.

(LAUGHTER)

GANGEL: And that was just classic Bob Dole.

BLITZER: They're heading over to the World War II Memorial. There will be more tributes to Bob Dole there, including from -- Tom Hanks will be speaking as well.

We will, of course, continue to have coverage for all of our viewers.

And to our viewers, we want to thank you very much for watching, as the nation says goodbye to the late Senator Bob Dole.

I'm Wolf Blitzer here in Washington.

Our CNN coverage will continue right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:59]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We begin with the U.S. Supreme Court and its ruling on the most restrictive abortion law in the country, the court allowing Texas to maintain its near total ban on abortions, but the ruling also allows abortion providers to continue their legal challenges to that law that bars the procedures after about the first six weeks of pregnancy.

This case has major implications for abortion rights across the country.

Let's check in with CNN's justice correspondent Elizabeth Schneider -- excuse me -- Jessica Schneider.

Jessica, tell us more about this ruling and what happens now.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, this is now being celebrated as a win for pro-life activists. And abortion providers are really expressing their disappointment.

And that's because this Texas law is still in effect. And it really only gives a very narrow path to abortion providers to even challenge this law. So the Supreme Court ruled that abortion providers can sue a handful of state officials to stop them from enforcing parts of this law. But the fact remains here private citizens are still empowered to sue any abortion provider who performs an abortion after a fetal heartbeat is detected.

That's right around six weeks. And with that threat, it is extremely likely that abortion clinics throughout the state of Texas will remain shut down, because, of course, that's why they shut down in the first place because of that threat of litigation, those threat of lawsuits filed from anyone anywhere in the country with that looming fine of $10,000 in each of those lawsuits.

So, with this ruling, the dynamic in Texas really doesn't change much. Private citizens can still sue. So that will make abortion clinics very reluctant to reopen.

Now, interestingly, it was actually both the chief justice, John Roberts and Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who wrote opinions critical parts of the court's rulings, the chief justice really saying that since state clerks process those private lawsuits, abortion clinics should be able to stop them.

And then there was Justice Sonia Sotomayor with very biting and powerful language. Here's what she said in part.

She said: "The court should have put an end to this madness months ago, before S.B.8 first went into effect. It failed to do so then. And it fails again today."

Now, notably, this decision, this court, Ana, not ruling on the underlying right to abortion. That issue was instead presented in a case last week and a challenge to a Mississippi law that bans most abortions at 15 weeks, this case just dealing whether or not abortion providers can proceed with their lawsuit. They can, but it will be so limited, Ana, that they will likely not be able to block this Texas law anytime soon.

It will remain on the books -- Ana.

CABRERA: Jessica Schneider, thank you so much for laying it out for us.

Let's bring in CNN's chief legal analyst Jeff Toobin and CNN Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic.

Jeff, what do you make of the fact that a majority of the court has essentially, for now, given Texas the green light to continue to ban most abortions after about six weeks, which is in direct opposition to Roe v. Wade?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is why evangelicals backed Donald Trump, because he appointed justices to the Supreme Court who are fighting abortion rights at every step.

I mean, it remains a remarkable, remarkable thing that, even though Roe v. Wade is technically still the law of the land, the women of Texas are now entering their fourth month where abortion is effectively illegal. And that's what the main message of today's opinion is.

And it's just a major change in the law. And it just shows how presidential elections have consequences, because abortion rights are being limited or restricted or eliminated in ways that would have been unthinkable just a year or two ago.

[13:25:00]

CABRERA: And, again, I just want to reiterate that they did not rule on the constitutionality of this Texas law.

They only ruled essentially on whether abortion providers have a right to challenge this law and the suits that have come as a result of it. So, what do you think this means, Jeffrey, for how the court will ultimately rule on that Mississippi law?

TOOBIN: Well, I have been wrong about predictions based on oral arguments before, but, when you look at this decision, and when you look at how the court behaved during oral argument of the Mississippi case last week, it's very hard to avoid the conclusion that the court, it will uphold the restriction abortion rights, which is a 16-week rule in Mississippi.

This is a six-week rule in Texas. This just -- this does not look like a court that is prepared to limit states in any way in banning abortion. And everything they do, it looks like the five justices who are in the majority here are ready to do away with all those protections that women have had in this country for 50 years.

CABRERA: Joan, in one sense, there was a limited win for abortion providers, the Supreme Court here saying that they have a right to challenge this Texas law, but they can only sue certain state officials.

And the court was very divided on this, 5-4, on who abortion providers could challenge in court. So what did you learn about the justices themselves and this new court in this ruling and the message this court ascending?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes, I would emphasize the limited when you refer to a limited win, because it's only certain state licensing officials that can be sued by the abortion providers.

What it shows is who's in control here. Neil Gorsuch, President Donald Trump's first appointee, was the one who wrote this opinion. Chief Justice John Roberts, who is not a fan of abortion rights, but is trying to keep this court from lurching too far to the right, dissented, as did the three liberals.

So it really shows who is in control. And, again, it's a real sign for what could happen nationwide now for the big Mississippi case that's under -- now under consideration. In Texas, though, it means that since September 1 of this year, women who are beyond six weeks into pregnancy have no right to obtain an abortion, when the court has ruled since 1973 that women in the early stages of their pregnancies up to about week 23 have a constitutional right to terminate a pregnancy.

Whether you like that or not, that has been the law of the land for a half-century and was reaffirmed by the justices in 1992. And in Texas right now, that's all out the window. And Chief Justice John Roberts said in today's ruling, Texas has essentially nullified Supreme Court precedent.

So it shows us this very severe breakdown on the court and who is in control and likely who is controlling right now behind the scenes in the Mississippi case.

The one caveat I would say is, there are many months between now and June, when we will see how the justices rule on the nationwide right to abortion. And things could change. But, right now, it doesn't look good for proponents of abortion rights.

CABRERA: Jeff, at least 12 states right now have these so-called trigger laws in place...

TOOBIN: Right.

CABRERA: ... meaning, if Roe v. Wade were to be overturned, nearly all abortions would immediately be banned in these states.

Is there anything stopping these states right now from trying to move forward and actually put these laws in place?

TOOBIN: Well, many of them have. I mean, there are lots of laws restricting abortion that are sort of on hold now waiting for the resolution of this Mississippi case.

But, look, I mean, this has been a goal of the conservative movement for several decades. Donald Trump said -- in the 2016 campaign in the debate with Hillary Clinton, he said it's automatic that Roe v. Wade will be overturned if I have appointments to the Supreme Court.

But these state legislatures, they read the newspaper. They follow the news. They know who's on the Supreme Court. And so I anticipate, regardless of whether the court uses the words overruled with Roe v. Wade, if this Mississippi law is upheld in June, you will see a cascade of laws restricting abortion in close to a third of the country almost immediately.

And then you will have states, like Georgia, like Michigan, like Ohio, where you will have brutal political fights over it. But in much of the country, a third of the country, in the South especially, abortion is just going to be illegal soon if the court continues in this direction.

CABRERA: Well, and you think about broader implications still.

The fact that we're looking at the potential for what has been described as settled law to be overturned.