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More Revelations in Meadows Text Messages; Texts from Fox and Trump Jr. To Meadows. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 14, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's time now for "The Good Stuff."

North Carolina nurse Mia Commedo is providing diapers and other baby supplies for women struggling to make ends meet. She knows what it's like to be a single mother during the holiday season.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIA COMMEDO: We have moms choosing between food versus diapers or having a bill pay versus the necessities for the baby. And I've been in that position myself at one point in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Good for her.

All right, everyone, CNN's coverage continues right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Minutes from now, the House rules committee will begin debate ahead of a full House vote on former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows' contempt of Congress charge. This, the final step before sending a criminal referral to the Justice Department.

This follows Meadows abrupt decision to no longer cooperate with the January 6th committee. The panel released explosive new details in a public meeting last night, including frantic text messages sent to Meadows from members of former President Trump's inner circle as violence unfolded at the Capitol.

HILL: And it's important to note, these texts paint a starkly different picture from the public message Trump allies have pushed since January 6th in which they have downplayed, glossed over the riots. The texts show unnamed lawmakers, Fox News personalities and even Donald Trump Jr. panicked, desperate, pleading with Meadows to get Trump to tell his supporters to stand down.

Here's committee vice chairwoman Liz Cheney. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Multiple Fox News hosts knew the president needed to act immediately. Quote, Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy, Laura Ingraham wrote.

One of the president's sons texted Mr. Meadows, quote, he's got to condemn this shit ASAP. The Capitol Police tweet is not enough, Donald Trump Jr. texted. Meadows responded, quote, I'm pushing it hard. I agree.

These non-privileged texts are further evidence of President Trump's supreme dereliction of duty during those 187 minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild joining us now with more. There was a lot in those moments last night, plenty of reaction since. What else did we learn?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: We learned a lot more about what lawmakers were saying to Meadows about really the -- basically the whole day. I mean a lot of these text messages surround this idea that there were, you know, lawmakers who were interested, as we know, in overturning the election. And by having -- in one moment by having former Vice President Mike Pence basically say that, you know, all of these disputed electoral votes wouldn't count, that was one suggestion that Meadows fielded.

And, you know, largely the theme here from -- these texts from the former president's son, Donald Jr., to these media personalities, to others who were urging Meadows to act shows a single thing, which is, Meadows was at the nucleus of the white House as this riot unfolded and he was really one of the key players, possibly the only person that this Trump inner circle and wider circle believed actually had the ability to sway the president and try to get him to condemn the violence. I mean he was -- he had the ear of the former president, which is why the committee feels so interested in speaking with him.

Here's a little bit more from that very revelatory hearing last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Members of Congress, the press, and others wrote to Mark Meadows as the attack was underway. One text Mr. Meadows received said, quote, we are under siege here at the Capitol. Another, quote, they have breached the Capitol. And a third, Mark, protesters are literally storming the Capitol, breaking windows on doors, rushing in. Is Trump going to say something?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Again, further proof that Meadows had the ear of the president and was one of the few people who could compel him to act. It is extraordinary testimony.

The next step now is for this to go to the House floor. That could happen as soon as today. And then after this very likely passes, it will go to the Department of Justice where it will be up to Attorney General Merrick Garland to decide how to handle this case.

SCIUTTO: I mean Meadows is at the center but also reveals what the president -- former president did and didn't do that day in terms of trying to stop this.

Whitney Wild, thanks so much.

[09:05:00]

Well, Mark Meadows, he appeared on Sean Hannity's show after the January 6th committee's vote, said the leaks of information from the panel were evidence this is all an effort to go after the former president.

Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: This is about Donald Trump and about actually going after him once again, continuing to go after Donald Trump.

There's never been an intent on my part. I've tried to share non- privileged information. But truly the executive privilege that Donald Trump has claimed is his to wave. It's not mine to wave. It's not Congress' to wave. And that's why we filed the lawsuit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now to discuss, Laura Jarrett, CNN "EARLY START" anchor and attorney, and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

So Meadows making the case there, you know, I tried to share, I did my thing, but, you know, privilege, it's not mine to wave, it's not Congress' to wave, so that's why we had to file that lawsuit. A lawsuit, of course, which was filed, we were told at the time, was also filed in part because there was this subpoena for phone records.

You know, Jennifer Rodgers, does that hold up? I mean this whole claim of the privilege wasn't mine to give up, he was cooperating in the beginning. He handed over thousands of documents.

JENNIFER RODGERS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: He did, and, Erica, I now think he probably believes that was a strategic mistake. You know, a lot of this has all been about delay, delay, delay. But Mark Meadows is not Steve Bannon, right? He doesn't want to blow this whole thing up. He's more of an establishment guy. So he's got to walk the line between staying in the good graces of Donald Trump, obviously he's hitched his star to that wagon, but also he doesn't want to be referred for criminal contempt. He certainly doesn't want to be charged with criminal contempt.

So this dance that he's been doing about giving over some things, trying to hold back other things, that's worked for a while, and now it's really -- it's really the time. You know, is he going to be referred for criminal contempt. He tried to file this lawsuit as I think a last ditch effort to avoid that. But the committee is about to vote. And we'll see if he tries his real last card in his hand, which is going in and invoking the Fifth Amendment, which I think would stop the criminal contempt, but raises a host of other issues.

SCIUTTO: Laura Jarrett, folks at home might wonder why Mark Meadows is happy to go on Fox News to talk about events that day, but not speak to the committee. It's a point that the committee itself made in their report. Mr. Meadows has shown his willingness to talk about issues related to the select committee's investigation across a variety of media platforms anywhere it seems except to the select committee.

So, how does the executive privilege argument even hold, right, if he's willing to go out there and give his view of things on television stations?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR, "EARLY START": He knows he has a friendly audience there. He knows that won't even be asked about the text messages, as he wasn't asked about the text messages last night despite Hannity having been one of the people who sent him those text messages.

The problem for Meadows, as Jennifer so aptly pointed out here, is that you do not get to use executive privilege as both a sword and a shield. And in other words, he doesn't get to just selectively pick out the text messages that he wants to put out there, give them over to the committee and then not even show up and answer their questions. He's -- he's totally within his rights to show up and say, I decline to answer that on the basis of my Fifth Amendment, I decline to answer that question on the basis of executive privilege. But he has to actually show up and he hasn't. instead, he's thumbed his nose at the committee. He hasn't done any of that. And that's why this is being referred for prosecution to the Justice Department.

HILL: You know, Liz Cheney raised the question of -- I'm just looking at my notes here -- about whether there was obstruction here, right? So she was saying -- she said, and I'll quote her, you know, did the president, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress' proceedings, saying that Meadows' testimony is necessary because they need to understand that, to inform their judgment. None of these words, right, are chosen without very careful consideration. Is that, you think, going to have the effect that the committee would like?

RODGERS: Well, it's interesting, Erica, because, you know, she's really referring to words that are part of a statute. And just yesterday a judge ruled in the case of two insurrectionists that they could be charged with corruptly interfering with an official proceeding. And so everyone immediately thought, well, that means that ultimately if they get the proof that former President Trump could be charged with corruptly interfering with an official proceeding, even if he himself didn't know about or anticipate or cause the violence.

So, it's really -- it's definitely a deliberate choice of words. And, yes, Congress needs to look into all of this. There is a legislative purpose here. But there's also a potential law enforcement purpose here. Is DOJ going to pursue a criminal case that might get up to President Trump? And this ruling from the judge yesterday saying that it was good in the case of two insurrectionists may mean that they have a stronger basis to do so.

SCIUTTO: Beyond family members, Fox News hosts, communicating with the White House in the midst of January 6th, you had lawmakers doing so. This also coming out of the report. One of the text messages read, Mark, as in Mark Meadows, protesters are literally storming the Capitol, breaking down windows and doors, rushing in.

[09:10:07]

Is Trump going to say something?

Another one texted, we are all helpless.

Here's what committee member Zoe Lofgren had to say about lawmakers and these texts yesterday. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Does your committee intend to subpoena those lawmakers and compel them to testify publicly? And do you think Americans deserve to know eventually who those individuals are?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Let me just say that we are going to follow the facts wherever they lead. And, ultimately, the American people will learn everything that we find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Laura, where does that go from here? Are we going to learn who those lawmakers are?

JARRETT: Oh, sure. I'm sure we'll learn by the end of this day. I'm sure our teams are working furiously right now trying to get to the bottom of it.

And some of this has, you know, only come out through the great reporting of our teams and others who have sort of filled in the missing gaps here of what we know. But right now we have a very damning portrait, but it's a one way portrait. In other words, we have all of these lawmakers with desperate pleas trying to get Mark Meadows to get his boss to do something, if anything.

But we also see sort of this disturbing picture, one of the text messages from an unnamed lawmaker, at least unnamed right now, apologizing to Mark Meadows the day after this violent coup, essentially saying, sorry we weren't able to flip the election in your favor. That is -- that is the talk of conspiracy. And I think that's one of the more troubling text messages that we'll have to figure out exactly what was the context of that, who sent it, what did Mark Meadows know before he even received that? You would think there was some predicate conversation there. SCIUTTO: Here is that text message, by the way, Laura, that you referred to, that the lawmaker said, yesterday was a terrible day. We tried everything we could in our objections to the six states. I'm sorry nothing worked.

I mean, Erica, that speaks -- I mean to Laura's point, whether legally it's a conspiracy, it speaks to certainly coordination there.

HILL: Yes, it certainly does. And while those are unnamed lawmakers at this point, one would think those lawmakers know who they are, wondering how they're feeling about those texts this morning.

Laura Jarrett, Jennifer Rodgers, great to have you both here this morning. Thank you.

JARRETT: Thanks, guys.

HILL: Well, one thing Sean Hannity did not address, a number of things, one thing he certainly didn't address when interviewing Mark Meadows last night were his own text messages to the former White House chief of staff asking for former President Trump to call off the rioters. So, what role did Fox play in all of this? We'll take a look.

SCIUTTO: Plus, Dr. Anthony Fauci will join us live. We'll get his take on new data about how effective vaccines are against the omicron variant.

And President Biden headed to Kentucky tomorrow as communities begin a very long, perhaps years long road to recovery from those deadly, sweeping tornadoes. We're going to take you live to Mayfield, can Kentucky.

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[09:17:14]

SCIUTTO: Fox News remaining silent so far, despite three of its most prominent hosts being called out by name by the January 6th committee. Why? Newly revealed text messages to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, in the very midst of the violence of the Capitol insurrection. Among them, Brian Kilmeade saying, please get him, Trump, on TV, destroying everything you have accomplished.

HILL: And this one from Sean Hannity, can he make a statement, ask people to leave the Capitol?

Joining us now is CNN's senior political analyst and anchor John Avlon, and Brian Stelter, CNN's chief media correspondent.

Just to remind people, so these are the panicked text messages that were apparently happening in private. Just a reminder of what was happening publicly, what the public statements were on Fox and have been.

Just take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The uniforms that you saw in some of these crowd shots, have you ever seen them wearing, as Chris said, those knee pads and the -- you know, all the pads on their elbows? I just -- I mean I've been to a lot of these rallies. I know you -- you both have covered them. I've never seen that before. Ever.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Everyone knew going in today that this crowd was going to be massive. They knew there were hundreds of thousands of people that came to town. We also knew that there's always bad actors that will infiltrate large crowds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Brian, look, I know you've been following this for a long time. You've been following this evolution. You wrote about it in some respects in your book. But these messages, they reveal two things, not only what's happening in private, right behind the scenes, verses, I guess what makes for better TV, sells more. But they also reveal just how chummy, right, these hosts were with the former president and his administration.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right. And not just trying to communicate to the president through the TV. We knew they did that for four years. But also behind the scenes in private. And yet they are texting Meadows. They're not getting replies. They're not getting what they're calling for. President -- Donald Trump is sitting in -- sitting, watching TV enjoying the sights. Even Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham couldn't stop him from letting the riot go on.

So, in some ways, it shows the power of Fox and the feebleness of these stars at the same time. And then, by the end of the day, they're already pushing falsified narratives, they're already pushing riot denialism within the same day. This is deeply revealing and deeply damning for Fox News.

Now, here's -- it's important to know though, their viewers are not hearing about it. This is not being covered on Fox. It's not being acknowledged by Hannity. It's not being acknowledged by Ingraham. I haven't even heard back from Fox's PR people when we've asked for comment about this.

So, this is embarrassing and yet they're going to try to pretend none of this has been revealed.

[09:20:00]

SCIUTTO: To Erica's point about chumminess here, I mean it -- it is remarkable. Laura Ingraham's text, this is hurting all of us. Right, in effect putting Fox in the same bucket with the White House. He is destroying his legacy.

Brian Kilmeade, destroying everything you have accomplished.

It's like they're on the same team, right, John Avlon, there. Have we had that kind of relationship between an administration so directly with very prominent members of a network? I mean it's almost indistinguishable.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Not even a little bit. And I think this goes well beyond chumminess. I mean this is Fox News functioning as basically as an adjunct of the Trump administration. When Laura Ingraham treats, you know, this -- texts that this is bad for all of us, she's not talking about all of us as in the American people, our country, our democracy. She's talking about, it's bad for us, in the Trump water carriers and right wing talk TV. It's bad for us on team Trump. That's how deep -- you know, they've been used to functioning as advisers to the administration, which itself is unprecedented. But she's saying that Trump's refusal to denounce this is going to hurt all of us.

And then, hours later, as Brian says, they default to lies. Hours later they start whitewashing and pedaling up fiction, lying to their viewers that this was some kind of false flag operation, when in real time they knew the truth, that this was being done by Trump supporters and only Trump could stop it in their eyes.

HILL: Right, and, look, then there's plenty of lying by omission, right, which is -- there's been a full-on omission since this first came out last night.

What we don't know are those unnamed lawmakers. We don't yet know who they are, Brian. I'm curious, just your thoughts on, once those names come out, because they will, do you think that will prompt any coverage?

STELTER: That's interesting. Right, is this going to become kind of a situation where everybody -- every man for himself, every woman for themselves where they all -- but I'd be surprised by that because there has been such a strong denialism streak for the past year. Like I said, it started the night of January 6th. It has continued ever since. It's actually become more intense in the past couple of months, this attempt to deny the reality of the riot. You know, these hearings are not covered live on right wing TV. These -- you know, they don't have reporters down at the courthouse the way CNN does, keeping track of the prosecution. They don't have reporters keeping track like ABC and "The New York Times." They are pretending like it didn't happen.

And here's what I wonder, can this committee shape, you know, the Fox base out of -- out of those fictions? Is that possible? Or is the country just too far split? And the Fox base will never hear the truth? I think we might be at the point where it's the latter.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, listen, remember, no one, John Avlon, went to Trump's departure, right? No one wanted to show up there, right? Now folks are flocking to Mar-a-Lago. They need his endorsement.

Is the fact, the sad fact, that for a portion of this country, that January 6th has been rewritten already, Soviet style?

AVLON: Well, Fox has been engaged in the Soviet-style rewriting of history around January 6th from almost the evening of the attack, despite their anchors knowing better, as we've seen. It's metastasized even further with these false flag narrative documentaries, which has prompted some of their anchors who still retain a shred of journalistic integrity to leave the network.

So, I think this is denial as a business strategy. But in the jump ball for our democracy, which is what we are talking about, the fact that the Republican Party has rallied around this disgraced ex- president, as more and more information comes out clearly showing that there was an attempted coup, quarterbacked by the White House, on his watch, by his wishes, is a sign of incredible sickness in that political party. And anyone who goes along with it is absolutely complicit at this point.

And there will only be, I've got to say, there's got to be legal accountability for it to break through this. This is not a narrative war at this point.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

AVLON: There's got to be legal accountability to really change the trajectory.

SCIUTTO: And that we haven't seen, at least for the ring leaders, right?

AVLON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: John Avlon, Brian Stelter, thanks so much to both of you.

AVLON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He will join us live for the latest on how vaccines are responding to the omicron variant and when we will know more about the variant's spread here in the U.S.

HILL: And we are just moments away now from the opening bell on Wall Street. This morning, Wall Street got another gauge on inflation. The producer price index, it rose to 9.6 percent. That's the biggest increase since November of 2010. Disappointing news for investors who were hoping to see a sign of inflation recovery to come. On Monday, stocks closed lower with tech stocks taking the biggest hit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:25]

SCIUTTO: This morning, there is new data on the effectiveness of vaccines specifically against the omicron variant. A new study from South Africa suggests that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine are only about 33 percent effective against the variant. Remember, the same vaccine that was more than 90 percent effective against the original Covid strain which vaccines were released, we should note, exactly one year ago today.

On the positive side, that same study has found that vaccinated people who are infected with omicron are about one-third less likely to end up in the hospital when compared to the original strain of the virus.

[09:30:00] Joining me now to discuss this and many issues, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

Dr. Fauci, good to have you back on the program.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Thank you, Jim.