Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview With Kentucky First Lady Britainy Beshear; 109 Still Missing in Kentucky; New January 6 E-Mails Revealed. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 14, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That gives you a sense of the level of control that these hackers could potentially have if they exploit this vulnerability again, which could potentially affect hundreds of millions of devices.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, Alex Marquardt, thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: OK, top of the hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

Any moment now, the House of Representatives will begin debate on whether to hold former President Trump's chief of staff in contempt of Congress. Meadows, Mark Meadows, failed to appear for a deposition with lawmakers investigating the January 6 insurrection.

And the full House will decide if he should be referred to the Department of Justice on criminal charges.

CAMEROTA: One of the many reasons why the committee wants to hear directly from Meadows is because of newly revealed text messages that were sent to him during and after the violent siege, some from FOX hosts, others from Republican lawmakers.

One text said -- quote -- "The president needs to stop this ASAP."

Another pleads quote: "Mark, protesters are literally storming the Capitol, breaking windows and doors, rushing in. Is Trump going to say something?"

CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is here.

So, Paula, obviously, these new texts reveal so much -- or newly released texts reveal so much. So what's the legal argument the committee is making today?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, they argue that, look, you have already handed over 9,000 pages of records. Clearly, you didn't think that those were covered by privilege. And if you did, you waived it. So at least come in and answer questions about the materials you have already handed us. If you are concerned about any question you're asked or any issue

comes up that you think may technically or possibly be covered by executive privilege, raise it then and there to that specific question. That's the way this usually works.

But Meadows now, after cooperating for some time, being engaged, potentially being willing to sit for an interview, he has suddenly stopped cooperating with the committee, refusing to comply with the subpoena.

And the committee vice chairwoman, Liz Cheney, she laid out some other things they'd like to talk to Meadows about this morning. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): And what were his discussions with the member of this body about making Jeffrey Clark attorney general? Why did they want to make Jeffrey Clark attorney general? What did he think about the letter that Jeffrey Clark was proposing to send to state legislators in Georgia to overturn the results of those elections?

Why were FOX News hosts texting him, telling him that they needed to get the president out to stop this? Why did they think that the president was the one who could stop this? Because many of those same people now are in fact saying, gosh, this was just -- this was just tourists? Or this was a false flag operation, another person on FOX News has claimed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Clearly, they have a lot of questions for the former chief of staff.

And if he was to cooperate or continue to engage, he would be such a critical witness for their investigation. But they continue to proceed with this criminal contempt proceeding. It is unlikely that they will ever hear from Mark Meadows.

Now, the other outstanding question is whether, if this goes to the Justice Department, if Attorney General Merrick Garland would proceed with a prosecution against Meadows. They have, of course, been prosecuting another Trump ally, Steve Bannon, but this case is different for several reasons.

First of all, Meadows was a top official at the White House on January 6, and he did, for a time -- like we just reported, he did engage with the committee. He turned over thousands of pages of records and, as we see here, that he's really provided them with some pretty incredible evidence.

Now, in his objections to this subpoena, Meadows makes two arguments. The first is, he argues that he does not want to violate executive privilege. He also questions the authority of this committee to conduct this investigation. Now, those two issues have come up in separate litigation by former

President Trump. And now, at two levels, the federal court has rejected, rejected those arguments so far. But the former president still has the right to appeal these larger questions about his rights to keep his records, his White House record secret from the committee, questions about the power of this particular committee to conduct this investigation.

He still has the right to appeal his issues to the Supreme Court. He is expected to do that. So it's unlikely that, if the Justice Department was to proceed with this matter, it's unlikely that they would do so before that litigation is resolved -- Alisyn, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Paula Reid, thank you.

Let's bring in now CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN political commentator Charlie Dent. He is a former Republican congressman.

Welcome to you all.

Gloria, let me start with you.

It's been decades since a White House chief of staff has been considered for criminal charges, before Steve Bannon, been decades since someone had been charged for contempt of Congress. Just the historical framework of what we're going to watch as this debate and vote happens this afternoon.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's quite remarkable.

And also, while it's political, of course, in many, ways it's also a solemn moment for the country, I believe. We all witnessed what occurred on January 6. And, as you saw from the committee hearing last night, it could not be more serious and more important to the country.

[15:05:15]

And so I think, when you have these texts, and you have these e-mails on Mark Meadows -- to Mark Meadows, what you have laid out before us are the receipts here, for lack of a better word. You have the receipts that show that Mark Meadows knew how serious this was, that the president of the United States was being implored to do something, Mark Meadows telling Donald Trump Jr., I'm trying to get to the president.

You know the president's family knew. You know that Republican lawmakers knew. All the way up and down the line, people were aware. FOX News anchors knew. Up and down the line, people knew how serious what was going on at the Capitol was. And yet there are those who still have refused to publicly come out and say it and who are double- dealing publicly, quite frankly.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Charlie, it's so remarkable to read these texts in real time, because,

as Gloria says, they knew the danger was unfolding. They knew how deadly it could be. They knew what real leadership should look like. They knew that Trump wasn't stepping up to call off the mob. They wanted to know when he was going to. Lives were depending upon it.

I mean, that's what you see in the urgency of these texts. And when you see that the lawmakers -- I mean, there's one here. I wish we knew the names, OK, of these lawmakers. For whatever reason, they haven't released them. I do want to ask you about that.

But we don't know who. But here was one: "Yesterday was a terrible day. We tried everything we could in our objections to the six states. I'm sorry nothing worked."

I mean, apologizing that they weren't able to overturn a free and fair election, but still, call off the mob, if you would.

What do you see in all this, Charlie?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the whole situation is just simply utterly shameful.

To hear these Trump allies in real time -- I'm talking about the FOX News hosts and his son and the others who are trying -- telling the president to do something or encouraging Meadows to tell the president to do something, understanding the magnitude of what was happening.

And then they have gone on to whitewash this thing and to minimize it as best they can publicly. I mean, it really speaks to the sickness in our political system that they would actually stoop to that level.

And to the member you just referred to who apologizes, who apologizes because they didn't stop the peaceful transfer of power, I mean, I wouldn't want to be that member of Congress. I mean, how do you ever explain that at home in good conscience? I mean, I just -- it's utterly shameful. I mean, there's no other way to say this.

This was the site of a massive crime scene. And Congress has every right to hold people accountable and to get answers from people like Mark Meadows, who has one foot in, one foot out. He provides the documents, but he says, I won't talk about them. I will talk about it in my book, but I won't talk about it with you, Congress.

I mean, this is simply incredible. I think Meadows is in a real predicament now. Does he tell the truth? Does he -- if he tells the truth, he will upset Donald Trump, and he's smart enough to know that he can't lie. He's in a no man's land.

So I think this is a -- this is kind of unprecedented. and I suspect he's going to be held in contempt in a -- shortly.

BLACKWELL: Kaitlan, we have read through these descriptions of these books that have come out recently about what the president was doing at that time.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BLACKWELL: We now have a clearer picture of the people reaching out to him because they knew that he was the -- probably the only person who could get people out of that building.

COLLINS: And he was one of the few people who actually was around the president that day, because a lot of people in the West Wing that we talked to that day were kind of steering clear of the Oval Office, knowing that, regardless, before all of this happened, it wasn't going to be a day where the former president was very happy.

But Mark Meadows was one of the people who was around him. So I think there are a few questions about this. One, who are the lawmakers that sent these messages? Because they did not reveal that last night, saying...

CAMEROTA: Do we know why they are not revealing not?

COLLINS: They're just saying that the investigation is ongoing.

But they revealed with the FOX News hosts were. So it's kind of interesting that they haven't revealed to the lawmakers were yet. I suspect that they will do that at some point.

We don't know the timing of these texts. What time were the texts from Donald Trump Jr. sent, I think, is a big question, and, of course, one that Mark Meadows could answer, but is not going to, it doesn't appear to -- to be is, what did he do with these messages? Did he go to the former president would this or did he kind of keep it to himself and then try to get the president to issue a statement?

Those are big questions. I can't imagine that Trump is very happy with this, because we should remind people Mark Meadows is saying that these are being selectively leaked. He is the one who turned these over, these 9,000 documents, to the committee.

He is the reason that Liz Cheney was able to read those texts aloud from Donald Trump Jr., from these normal allies at FOX News of the former presidents. And it's also given this committee a fresh burst of momentum.

[15:10:00]

They had kind of been interviewing people behind the scenes. No one really knew what their work was doing from an outside perspective. And now I think people are paying attention really closely, including Mitch McConnell, who just told Manu Raju on Capitol Hill he's also interested to see who was involved in all of this.

CAMEROTA: Gloria, how about Liz Cheney?

I mean, Liz Cheney having to be this not lone voice, but pretty close to lone voice in the woods there, and reading her colleagues, her Republican colleagues' text messages out loud to make the case that they have to hold Meadows in contempt, I mean, she has shown that she has a steely spine. But it can't be easy to do all of this in public.

BORGER: No, I don't think it's easy, but she's all in. And steely is the way to describe it. And, of course, it could cost her, her congressional seat.

And there's no pretending that's not a problem for her. But she's made a decision, which is that the country is more important to her than her congressional seat. I think you're going to continue to see Liz Cheney lead.

And I think one of the reasons they're not giving all these names out, as you were just talking to Kaitlan about, is that this did give them a little bit of momentum. And you kind of want to dribble this kind of information out. It's probably strategic, to a degree, because these people know who they are who are texting Meadows, and Liz Cheney has them in her back pocket.

And maybe they don't know all the names of all the people yet because they have to match phone numbers to people. They weren't just given a list of names of people.

So -- but Cheney is really, really leading the pack here. And I think she's decided to stake her entire career on it, because she's made a choice about what's important to her, and she's picked the country.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, if the Bannon debate, the debate over his criminal referral, is any guide, we're likely to hear from Kevin McCarthy in this debate.

And I just want to remind people what he described happened that afternoon and his communication with the president. And what he says happened afterward. Let's watch that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I was the first person to contact him when the riots was going on. He didn't see it.

What he ended the call was saying, telling me he will put something out to make sure to stop this. And that's what he did. He put a video out later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I mean, that is a broad-brush whitewash over what happened that day.

But I just want to remind people, Congressman, you can speak to it, that there are members who will speak today who have a vested interest in all of this information about the exchanges with the president that day, because they are some of the congressmen who sent these texts.

They don't want that to be part of the conversation.

DENT: Yes. Yes, Victor, look, again, every one of those members, I suspect, on the Republican side knew how serious that situation was in real time. They were concerned for their safety, their personal safety.

They knew the severity and the magnitude of the event that they were witnessing. What's what's so alarming and disturbing is the attempts to whitewash it. Look, I think some of them are now just treating it as a political issue, you got to move on, time to talk about other things.

But some of them are very vulnerable, legally and perhaps politically, for some of the roles that some of them may have played, not those who are concerned, but those like the member who were upset that the coup didn't come off.

So, bottom line is, I think everybody knows that we're getting the truth. We know what happened. Everybody agrees about the severity of the situation. But the harsh reality is, it's so discouraging to see so many people now trying to rewrite history and talk about it in a way that really minimizes what occurred.

CAMEROTA: In terms of needing to move on, I was watching the noon hour of FOX today. And they -- the story that they really want to talk about was how the vice president had driven an electric car. She had test-driven an electric car. They didn't like how she had test-driven it.

That's what they think is more important to tell their viewers about than a threat to democracy and trying to overturn an election. Just throwing that out there for their choices.

Kaitlan Collins, Gloria Borger, Charlie Dent, thank you all very much.

OK, now to Kentucky. Search-and-rescue efforts are continuing there. And there are still more than 100 people missing.

BLACKWELL: The first lady of Kentucky will join us live to tell us how she is helping families who lost every tangible thing that they own just before the holidays.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:10]

President Biden will go to Kentucky tomorrow to see the damage from the deadly tornado outbreak. Kentucky's governors said today that the number of those killed across his state, that number is at 74, although he expects the number to go up.

BLACKWELL: One of the hardest-hit areas is the city of Mayfield.

And CNN's Brynn Gingras is there.

So, Brynn, tell us what's happening around you.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn and Victor, the recovery effort is still, in effect, a rescue effort and really the cleanup, because, when you look at the area just around us, I mean, there is so much to do.

But I got to tell you, there are so many people here on the ground, from the National Guard to FEMA to just volunteers out of state, here to help. There is a need for power, which we are seeing electric companies. There is a need for water. There's a need for food. The need is huge.

[15:20:00]

And then we got a sobering update from the governor this afternoon about the death toll in Kentucky alone, as you guys mentioned, 74 dead, But he also said there are still so many people still missing. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): We still definitely are in rescue and recovery. We have people missing.

I still expect that we will find at least some more bodies. There is just so much destruction. I hope that that's not the case. But it's still an expectation. And we could still lose people to injuries, like we did that baby in Hopkins County.

You want to know how mean this thing is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: And, yes, you really can tell how mean this storm was when you look at the devastation.

Among those who were killed in these storms, from Dawson Springs, a 2- month-old named Oaklynn Koon was with her family in their trailer home when this storm ripped through. And that little girl has died, we have confirmed.

Again, so much loss here, but there is so much resiliency and so much hope. Certainly, when the president comes around the this part of Western Kentucky, it's going to give a lot of people a lot more hope for this path forward, guys.

CAMEROTA: OK, Brynn Gingras, thank you for the reporting.

BLACKWELL: Kentucky's first lady, Britainy Beshear, joins us now from Frankfort, Kentucky.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Listen, we just got that report from your husband that the youngest victim now 2 months old, the oldest victim 98. I know that you have been speaking with the people who survived this storm. Tell us about the conversations when you go out and talk to people who've lost, as I said, every tangible thing that they have.

BRITAINY BESHEAR, FIRST LADY OF KENTUCKY: Well, this storm, this tornado, tragedy doesn't begin to describe the absolute obliteration of towns and communities in Western Kentucky.

People are grieving. They're shell-shocked. They're looking for pieces of their life in rubble, that it's just not there. And there's a lot of sadness, but Kentuckians are strong and resilient. And we will bounce back from this.

BLACKWELL: I know that you -- your work there, you focused on the children across the state. Your husband had a moment where he broke down. You had one as well. But he had to come out and finish a statement there.

When you think about what the kids in your state have had to face during the pandemic, and then there was the flooding in the southeast part of the state as well, now this, I mean, what goes through your mind?

B. BESHEAR: It's devastating.

Children need to feel safe, and they need to feel secure, especially in their homes. And that's been taken away from them through the flooding, and now the tornadoes. Those pieces of security and innocence are gone. And it's going to take a long, long process to help these children sort of process what has happened to them, and hopefully get them on a path of resilience.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

We are, what, 10 days out now from Christmas Eve.

B. BESHEAR: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And for parents who are trying to secure a place to live, to get utilities on, a car, maybe their workplace has been damaged or destroyed, getting Christmas presents is really kind of low on the list.

And I know that you're working to try to help those kids. Tell me about it.

B. BESHEAR: Yes.

So, as you mentioned, the most important thing after the tornado just ravaged Western Kentucky was search-and-rescue, getting water, shelter, food. It's middle of December here. It's cold. And so those immediate needs absolutely need to be met.

But we're also just shy of two weeks from Christmas. And there are children who were looking forward to that visit from Santa. And they have lost their homes. They have lost their family. They have lost their community. And they have lost that sense of security.

And so, looking at my own two children, to me, what I was able to do was to set up this toy drive in order to hopefully bring some joy into a time of severe sadness to the children of Western Kentucky and their families, and hopefully, just for -- just for a moment, things will feel a little bit more normal. BLACKWELL: Yes.

I know that a lot of people want to send bags of clothes. They want to send baby clothes or T-shirts. You're not asking for that. How can people -- because we know our viewers always want to support, how can they help and what do you need?

B. BESHEAR: It's a great question. I appreciate you asking it.

So we have a Web site set up. It is firstlady.ky.gov/toydrive.

[15:25:00]

We are accepting toys from birth to 18 years of age that are new, unwrapped. We're also accepting $25 gift card increments that are either Visa or MasterCard. We have about 20 facilities set up around the state that you can find on the Web site that are collecting these donations.

One specifically in Louisville, Broadbent Arena, is taking donations that are sent in, so that people from outside our community and around the country can send something, if they choose to. And we are going to absolutely ensure that those toys and items are brought to the kids in Western Kentucky.

And, additionally, if someone would rather give a monetary donation, Andy has set up a site to help with immediate relief funds. And that is teamwkyrelieffund.ky.gov.

BLACKWELL: OK, give me that location and give me your Web site again where -- for the toy drive specifically.

B. BESHEAR: Absolutely.

It's firstlady.ky.gov/toydrive.

BLACKWELL: All right, Kentucky's first lady, Britainy Beshear, thank you so much for the work you're doing.

B. BESHEAR: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And our best to you and everyone in there -- in Kentucky who are going through this really, really difficult time trying to rebuild. Thanks so much.

B. BESHEAR: Thank you. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, we have some new information about the Omicron variant, what experts are seeing in terms of severity and vaccine protection -- coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]