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House Votes to Hold Meadows in Criminal Contempt of Congress; . FOX News Personalities Spar Over Downplaying of Jan. 6 Riot; Manchin Still Resisting Quick Passage of Build Back Better Plan; Soon, Fed Expected to Announce New Anti-Inflation Measures; CNN Poll: Most Americans Concerned about Economy, Think Govt Isn't Doing Enough to Solve High Inflation; Chauvin Back in Court, Changes Plea to Guilty; Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 15, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED": I think Bennie Thompson suggested, I think it was him, that we'll learn of these names if there's not more than 10 and we won't be surprised by who they are.

So I think maybe this is part of a shock and awe strategy. Part one is to drop these texts unnamed, have people get real, you know, alarmed by them, and then go ahead and release the names.

I think we'll find out who these folks are.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: I want to play some sound from a January 6th rally organizer who says he feels betrayed by former President Trump. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUSTIN STOCKTON, CO-ORGANIZER OF STOP THE STEAL RALLY ON 1/6: People who committed violence, the people who attacked police officers or defaced the capitol are responsible for their own actions, first and foremost.

But the buck has got to stop at President Trump. The fact that he delayed for so long responding, I think, really speaks ill of what his intentions were and what he was doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: S.E., what do you make of that?

CUPP: Yes. Well, that interview with Dustin Stockton, one of the organizers of Stop the Steal rally, was incredible with Anderson Cooper. That was one part of it.

I was also really taken by the fact that earlier in that interview, he said that basically he was embarrassed at having been sort of taken by Donald Trump. He called it a bluff or a con, the whole Big Lie and insurrection event. And if you multiply that by millions, right, millions of people have

been taken, I think, by Donald Trump, and I think millions more have been taken by the hucksters at FOX News, who we know text one thing and say another thing privately.

And it's hard to see this any other way than it's a big con. Not just the election lie, but other lies. The lies about COVID, the lies about democracy, and the lies about the media. I mean, it's all one big con job.

And I guess people might revel in the fact that folks like Dustin Stockton were taken. I don't celebrate that. I think it's really sad.

And I feel for people who were taken in by lies and are still being taken in by lies on a daily, nightly basis over at FOX.

CABRERA: But going back to what happened on January 6th, Elie, Liz Cheney keeps on referencing a criminal statute asking -- and I'm quoting here - "Did Donald Trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress' official proceeding to count electoral votes?"

How likely is it that Trump is held criminally liable for the events of January 6th?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, at this point, I think it's very unlikely. There's no sign that the Justice Department is even meaningfully investigating Donald Trump for his role in January 6th.

It's possible they're doing it, but we've seen no subpoenas, no grand jury convened, no witness interviews, no media reporting. It seems unlikely to me.

I think what Liz Cheney and others in Congress are trying to do is up the pressure for the DOJ to take meaningful action.

And I think back to just this morning, Ana, on "NEW DAY," Officer Harry Dunn, one of the brave officers who defended the capitol, he said, essentially, I can lead the DOJ investigating this and, wherever they come out, charge or no charge. But I cannot live with DOJ refusing to even take a look.

I think those are wise words from Officer Dunn.

CABRERA: S.E., you talked about what's happening on FOX News and the texts revealed from some FOX News hosts, like Sean Hannity, who texted during the riot to Meadows, trying to urge him to get the president to do something.

He writes, "Can he make a statement? Ask people to leave the capitol?"

Hannity addressed this yesterday, defending himself, but his colleague, Geraldo Rivera, wasn't having it. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS COMMENTATOR: I beg you, Sean, to remember the frame of mind you were in when you wrote that text on January 6th and when Laura did and when Brian did and when Don Jr did.

Remember the concern you had. Remember the frustration you had at our beloved 45th president.

(CROSSTALK)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX HOST, "HANNITY": Because I wanted the riot to end.

RIVERA: Why doesn't he say something? But you wanted him --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: The point is he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: S.E., that's his colleague calling him out. What's your reaction?

CUPP: Well, I have to wonder if Geraldo Rivera will be the next to leave FOX because they don't take kindly to this kind of pushback.

But, listen, Sean didn't really clear up anything, and Laura Ingraham said similar things, really defending themselves, again, also blaming Nancy Pelosi and Liz Cheney to distract us from what they said and did.

But Sean says he's been consistent with his viewers and that's just false. Yes, he did condemn the violence of January 6th. But he also spent the last 11 months saying Trump wasn't responsible and Trump supporters were not responsible.

[13:35:05]

Well, that flies in the face of your text, which is saying, make Trump do something, have Trump stop these people. Because presumably "these people" are there because of Trump and can be swayed by Trump.

So those things are incongruous. And same goes for Laura and Brian Kilmeade and Tucker Carlson and name your FOX News entertainment host.

But that did nothing to clear up anything, really.

CABRERA: All right, S.E. Cupp and Elie Honig, I have to leave it there. Thank you both for that discussion.

HONIG: thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Soon, the Fed will take on a massive task of trying to -- again, a huge task. They're going to try to contain rising inflation without sparking a recession. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:40:47]

CABRERA: With only two weeks or so until the end of the year, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin is still pushing back on the idea of quick passage of President Biden's Build Back Better plan.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

What are we learning, what's the latest on the dynamics at play?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the talks between Joe Manchin and President Biden are not going well according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Biden is trying to get Manchin on board behind this plan but I'm told they are, quote, "very far apart."

And what's at issue is the cost of this bill. Manchin has been concerned about this for some time.

In particular, he's concerned about the price of the child tax credit, expanding that to a number of families as they're trying to do, a central component of that bill.

If it does not expand by the end of this year, that expansion will actually expire for a number of families. There's a big push for Democrats to get this done.

But Manchin is concerned about the cost and thinks it should be zeroed out, according to a source familiar with the matter.

I just had a chance to talk to Joe Manchin. He says he's not opposed to including the child tax credit but he seems concerned about including it in this bill if it were to blow up the cost of the bill.

The question is, can they still get an agreement? Can they get it done by Christmas?

I'm hearing it's increasingly likely they may have to punt this bill into the new year, despite months of tortuous and painstaking negotiations to get the president's sweeping agenda done, that includes health care, climate change, childcare and the like.

It is almost most certain to have to wait until next year to continue to negotiate, not just because of Joe Manchin, but other issues that are still unresolved here.

So a lot of questions going forward. But at the moment, it's not looking good for the president's agenda.

CABRERA: Manu Raju, thank you for that update.

Soon, the Federal Reserve will unveil its game plan for tackling growing inflation. CNN business reporter, Matt Egan, is joining us.

Matt, this obviously very critical and a tricky decision for the Fed as they need to take action on inflation without cooling the economy too much. What can they do?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, Ana, it's definitely tricky. They face this really difficult balancing act. Because on the one hand, the Fed wants to allow the economy to continue to heal itself, but they've also got a really serious inflation issue on their hands.

We learned this week that producer prices, which producers charge business, they spiked by nearly 10 percent in November over a year ago. That's the biggest jump for this metric that started about 11 years ago.

And as you can see on that chart, inflation was pretty calm before COVID. But it really exploded in the months afterward because of all of these supply chain COVID-related issues. Also because demand really picked up as the economy had increased.

We know that consumer prices are rising at the fastest pace in nearly 40 years, everything from coffee to eggs to pork. Gasoline, of course, all of that up sharply.

And this high inflation is really hurting President Biden in the polls.

But this is really a problem for the Federal Reserve. It's their responsibility to maintain stable prices. And, Ana, prices right now are anything but stable.

CABRERA: You laid out the problem there. Walk us through the Fed's options, then, for fighting inflation.

EGAN: Simply put, they have to get out of emergency mode. In March of 2020, the Fed released this unprecedented rescue of the economy. They dropped interest rate to zero. And they also promised to buy $120 billion of bonds a month.

That made sense when the world was falling apart. But now unemployment is low and inflation is high. So they've got to reverse that.

We think the Fed will probably announce they'll speed up the end of that bond buying program. It could end as early as March.

Also the Fed is likely to signal that, at some point next year, they may raise interest rates. Wall Street right now is pricing in three rate hikes for next year.

Rate hikes would raise the cost of borrowing on everything from mortgages and car loans to credit cards. The borrowing cost would still be low but this would be a way to slow the economy down a bit.

Ana, the hope is that the Fed unwinding emergency policies with maybe some improvements on the COVID front next year that maybe that could cool off red-hot inflation.

CABRERA: OK, Matt Egan, we'll watch for new developments with their announcement to come in the next hour or so.

[13:45:01]

Thank you.

I want to bring in CNN political director, David Chalian, now.

David, CNN has brand new polling on how Americans feel about the government's handling of inflation and the economic problems affecting their lives. What are we learning?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: We're learning that broadly the American people do not think the government is doing enough to respond to inflation.

Take a look at these brand-new numbers from CNN and our polling partners from SRS.

And 72 percent of Americans in this poll say the government is doing too little to respond to inflation. Only 22 percent say it's doing the right amount, 5 percent say too much.

We also asked a whole series of economic issues and wanted to get a sense from people on how much concern they have about its impact on the economy.

Look at this, 80 percent of Americans in this poll say that food costs are a major problem for the U.S. economy, 79 percent supply chain issues, 77 percent say that about housing costs. You see all the way down there.

It's the pandemic. It's the coronavirus pandemic that is still down at 65 percent. Two-thirds of Americans say it's a major problem,.

But in comparison to the rising costs, you can see that's what it means for Americans to be feeling the impact of that inflation.

CABRERA: And as Matt just mentioned, it's really the Feds that have the power to take action here.

But you have some approval numbers also in that polling for how President Biden is handling this economy. How do Americans see it?

CHALIAN: He's under water on the issue of the economy, which, as you know, is issue number one.

But look at all of these issues. Only with coronavirus does Joe Biden have a majority approval, 54 percent approval of the way he's handling coronavirus.

But everything else, he is below the majority and under water. And the economy is one of his low issues. He has only 45 percent approval.

We also asked if his policies are impacting the economy. Take a look at this, Ana. And 45 percent of Americans, nearly half of those polled, say Biden's policies have worsened economic conditions in this country. A quarter say it had no effect and 30 percent say he made it better. Compare that to Obama in 2009 when unemployment was twice what it is

now, inflation obviously wasn't as high, and you see Americans have a much darker view of Biden policies on the economy right now than they did for Obama at the point during the time of his first year in office.

CABRERA: David Chalian, thanks so much for bringing us those numbers.

CHALIAN: Sure.

CABRERA: Derek Chauvin, the ex-cop convicted of killing George Floyd, is back in court today, and he just changed his plea on one of the federal charges against him. What it means, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:28]

CABRERA: Derek Chauvin was back in federal court this morning and changed his plea to guilty in a federal civil rights case brought against him.

He now says he is guilty of violating George Floyd's civil rights by kneeling on his neck for more than nine minutes before he died.

Chauvin is already serving a 22-year sentence for murdering Floyd that day in May of 2022.

CNN's Josh Campbell joins us now from Minneapolis.

Josh, why did he change his plea on the civil rights charge?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, certainly only he knows for sure. But one thing is clear. The evidence in this case is compelling.

We have all seen that video from a bystander showing Derek Chauvin holding George Floyd down on the pavement for over nine minutes. Obviously, that piece of evidence instrumental in his state murder conviction.

And as is so often the case, after an allegation of police use of force, the federal government will take a look to see if there are any federal violations. That's what happened here.

The prosecutors coming and actually charging Chauvin for violating George Floyd's civil rights.

Now, originally, Chauvin had pleaded not guilty. But today, the big development inside federal court, he changed that plea to guilty.

We didn't hear a lot from him, but there was one exchange where the prosecutor was asking him in detail to admit what he did.

The prosecutor asking Chauvin, "Did you keep George Floyd down on the cement?" Chauvin said, "Correct." The prosecutor asking him, "You kept him down on the cement even beyond the point where he was responsive?" Chauvin said, "Correct."

Now, this isn't the only civil rights charge that Derek Chauvin is facing. He was also, as was brought up in court today, charged with violating the civil right of a 14-year-old boy in 2017.

Choking that child, assaulting him with a flashlight. Chauvin also admitting today in court that he was guilty of that as well.

After court, I met up with two brothers, Philonise and Rodney Floyd. The members of the Floyd family were there. We got their reaction. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: You know what, I can never really feel closure about anything because it's so much happening all around the world.

I think about George every day. We just want accountability because we can't get justice for somebody who's dead, you know.

CAMPBELL: You were inside the courthouse. You saw Derek Chauvin. What was this moment like?

RODNEY FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: Seeing Mr. Chauvin walk out, honestly, in a bright-orange suit, I just looked at him just shaking my head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now today's hearing bringing together different parties who were victimized by Chauvin. Inside court were members of the Floyd family as well as that 14-year-old boy himself inside the court.

[13:55:06]

At the end of the hearing, Philonise Floyd turned to that child and said, "It's a good day for justice" -- Ana?

CABRERA: Josh Campbell, thank you for that report.

Thank you all for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 eastern. In the meantime, you can always join me on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

The news continues next with Alisyn and Victor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:00]