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Weekly Jobless Claims; Colleges Shutting Down over Covid; Omicron Variant Markedly Resistant; Jordan Texted Meadows During Riot Storms Hit United States. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 16, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

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ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Thursday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

We are following several major stories this morning.

New weekly jobless claims are out. There is some encouraging news. Despite an 18,000 increase compared to the previous week, the numbers still extremely low, nearing a 52-year low.

This comes as the Federal Reserve is picking up the pace to fight inflation. New projections show multiple interest rate hikes next year while the central bank says it will wrap up its stimulus program, a bond buying, faster than originally announced.

HILL: We are also closely monitoring the significant rise in Covid-19 cases. It is sparking concerns over the fast spreading omicron variant.

And we're learning four major -- that all four major vaccines, rather, are providing protection, but less protection against the new strain.

Meantime, at least four more colleges and universities being added to the list now of schools that are shifting the final days of the fall semester to online learning, including final exams, because of a rise in cases.

SCIUTTO: And just more crazy weather. A record-setting day of unprecedented winds slam the Midwest and the Rockies. Look at those pictures there from Kansas. Hurricane-force winds barreling through nine states. More than a dozen tornadoes reported as well, including the first ever tornado in December recorded in the state of Minnesota. Experts now warning these storms may be, quote, the new normal.

HILL: Let's get things started, though, with those new jobless claims, rising slightly, 206,000, but still, as Jim pointed out, they are near this 52-year low.

SCIUTTO: CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now.

So much data out there. Obviously, inflation concerns people. One thing seems clear is that the job market is hot.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is. I mean these are numbers that are consistent with a healing job market. Remember, you guys, when we were reporting a million layoffs a week in the worst of the -- of the crisis from Covid, 206,000 layoffs, new jobless claims. That's a relatively low number. Very close to a 52- year low. And that's what you want to see.

Look, bottom line, bosses aren't laying people off. They're trying to find workers, not lay them off. So you're going to see a relatively low number of layoffs here.

We heard from the Fed chief yesterday that, in fact, the labor market is strong. I mean he's really zeroing in, I think, on that 4.2 percent unemployment rate. Not exactly full employment, but getting close there.

So, as we see kind of difficulty from economists and even the government measuring how strong the jobs market is, the Fed is assuming it is strong and will continue to be strong.

One of the reasons why it's going to try to tap the brakes on the economy so it doesn't overheat next year, you guys.

HILL: Christine Romans, appreciate it.

Christine, thank you.

Here to discuss as well, CNN economics and political commentator Catherine Rampell.

Catherine, as we look at this, you know, as Christine just pointed out, the numbers that we're seeing are consistent with a healing job market. The Fed chair really pointing to that -- to that number in terms of the 4.2 percent. But we're also very focused on inflation. And the fact that we learned that we're now setting the stage for as many as three interest rate hikes. I guess the basic question is, will that work?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: If I knew the answer to that question, I would be a very rich woman.

But, yes, the Federal Reserve's job, it has a dual mandate, is maximum employment and stable prices. And they're fairly confident that we are well on the way to maximum employment. Obviously, employers are trying to hire. Their challenge is finding enough workers to get them into those jobs. And inflation, it's a much more complicated story where initially the Fed, among many other economic experts, by the way, thought that the upward price pressure that we were seeing would quickly recede. It was being caused primarily by the reopening of the global economy after a -- sort of a mass shutdown last year because of the pandemic. Of course, supply chain problems have persisted, demand has remained very strong. We're trying to buy much more in terms of goods than was the case pre-pandemic.

So the ports are clogged. There aren't enough truckers to get goods around and prices are going up. And the real risk that the Fed sees, I believe, is that those expectations about higher price will become embedded. And so even if the port situation gets better, people will still expect prices to go up and they will therefore raise their prices, they'll demand higher wages. And it becomes this sort of self- fulfilling prophecy that we get more and more inflation.

[09:05:01]

SCIUTTO: OK. So, of course, inflation is factoring into the current debate here in Washington about the president's economic agenda. Republicans, not just Republicans, Joe Manchin as well, saying you pump all this money into the economy again, that will juice inflation. Of course, on the other side, the child tax credit, for instance, would arguably help a lot of people who are hit hardest by the rising prices.

Tell us what the -- you know, separate out the politics, if we can, what does the economic data tell us about the infusions included in BBB, how they would affect inflation.

RAMPELL: I think it's reasonable to say that some of the elements in this legislation will give more people money to spend, and they will spend that money, and that will put upward pressure on demand and therefore could, you know, could contribute to inflation. But the amount is relatively small in the grand scheme of the overall economy and there are other elements in this bill that also would, you know, push prices in the other direction. If we're, you know, building more houses, for example, that should be -- the greater supply of housing should reduce price pressure on shelter costs.

So, overall, I think the effects of the bill are likely to be pretty minimal. The Republicans who say that this bill is going to, you know, super charge inflation are wrong. Biden and the Democrats who say that this is going to, you know, control inflation are probably wrong. It's likely to be a wash.

And what I would -- what I would prefer to see Biden doing, frankly, is to be selling this bill on the merits, right? It does a lot of good things, including that child tax credit, including getting -- getting more people health insurance, universal pre-k, et cetera. Sell it on the merits rather than claiming it's going to do something that it won't and frankly can't.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And may have some convincing to do within his own party in terms of that selling.

Catherine Rampell, always good to have you on.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

HILL: Turning now to coronavirus and the spread of the omicron variant. So far the variant has been identified in 36 states, as well as Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico. The surge in new cases taking a major toll on everyday life. You may be seeing some of it where you are. Here in New York City, some Broadway shows just canceled, sporting events as well, college campuses as we pointed out, some of those schools now shifting back to online learning.

SCIUTTO: Yes, at least four more colleges and universities, including Princeton, NYU taking protective measures, moving the last days of their fall semesters online, including final exams.

CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval has been covering.

So, Polo, what is the thinking behind these schools' decisions. I mean Are they trying to get to the other side of the holidays in effect?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's essentially what they're trying to do here too, Jim. What they noticed was a considerable acceleration in the number of Covid cases. Not severity of breakthrough cases. That's important. So, the result here is that university officials are basically telling the campus here that it's no cause for alarm but simply for caution and for action.

And that's what brings us to this point here where university officials are recommending the faculty take a remote approach for their upcoming finals, also the cancellation of all on campus, nonessential events and the closure of common areas, like meeting spaces and athletic spaces as well, for example.

Now, when it comes to the greater picture here, NYU not alone. There are multiple universities that are basically following -- at least doing -- taking similar steps here, including Cornell, Princeton.

Now, the good thing here is many of these universities actually count with a very high vaccination rate among students. Princeton alone, it's about 98 or 99 percent. So it certainly speaks to the lack of severity in many of these cases, breakthrough cases, that have actually been detected.

Now, when it comes to steps that the university officials are taking, looking ahead into the spring, I can tell you that several of these schools are actually going to be requiring these boosters. In fact, here at NYU, they'll be requiring that students actually upload proof of their booster dose by mid-January. Certainly -- it certainly speaks to these kinds of protocols and tactics that are basically being deployed throughout the northeast to try to get ahead or at least to try to deal with this winter surge that one expert after another will confirm already is here.

Guys. HILL: That it is.

Polo Sandoval, feels like we've been here before, although it feels a little bit better this time with the vaccines.

SANDOVAL: That's right.

HILL: Polo, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, U.S. researchers are now saying they have found that the omicron variant is, quote, markedly resistant to four major vaccines, as well as to most antibody-based therapies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: You know, each -- each new variant, as -- as I often like to say, has its own little shop of horrors. And in the case of the omicron variant, here's what I'm worried about. One, is it's so transmissible. Second, it does have that immune escape property.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now with more.

So, look, I think this is leading to a lot of confusion and concern for people when we hear that information. When we factor in boosters, though, across the board, how does that impact this lower efficacy?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm going to try to make it really simple, Erica. Two doses are useful to some extent against omicron, but three doses are better.

[09:10:04]

So just remember this, it's sort of shades of gray. I don't want people to feel like, oh my gosh, omicron, the vaccines don't work at all, I'm not going to get vaccinated. That would be a huge mistake. Get vaccinated. Those first two shots are the most important. And after six months get a booster. That will help even more against omicron.

Let's take a look at the results from a study that just came out from Columbia University. It's actually quite grim and I want to try to put it in context a bit.

So, what they found is that omicron is markedly resistant, that's the phrase they used, to Pfizer and Moderna and Johnson & Johnson and the AstraZeneca vaccines and that omicron is now the most complete escapee. What they mean by that is that omicron has managed to escape the vaccine even more so than delta or the other variants that have come out.

Now, let's take a look at what the Columbia study says about boosters. They say even a third booster shot may not adequately protect against omicron infection, but, of course, it is advisable to do so. So the reason why Dr. David Ho at Columbia says this it because it's not that the vaccines don't do anything against omicron, it's that they've managed to escape -- I'm sorry, omicron has managed to escape the vaccines to some extent. So if you get vaccinated, you may still get infected with omicron, but there is some data showing that you will get some protection against serious disease. So that's why Dr. Ho, as well as others, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, are saying get vaccinated.

Let's take a listen to something that Dr. Fauci said earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: In the winter months, with indoor congregating, with the holiday season, inevitably we are going to see even more cases than we're seeing now. But if we handle it well and continue to push on the vaccinations, I hope by the time we get through the winter we'll be on a downslope as opposed to an upslope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: And, again, you'll hear him pushing for vaccination. That's because, again, with omicron, the vaccine doesn't work as well, but it does seem to still protect people against going to the hospital or horribly dying.

Erica. Jim.

SCIUTTO: It's a big benefit.

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

Next, Republican Congressman Jim Jordan acknowledges he is one of the lawmakers who had -- had his texts with Mark Meadows revealed by the January 6th committee. What exactly his text said, as well as a key deposition that has now been delayed for a second time.

Plus, I'll speak live with the next police commissioner of New York, the first woman to take that job. Hear how Keechant Sewell plans to combat rising crime and diversify the police force.

HILL: Plus, hundreds of thousands of people still without power this morning following those hurricane-force winds that slammed the middle of the country. Strong enough, as you see there, to topple semitrucks. Widespread damage. We have an update.

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[09:17:16]

SCIUTTO: The January 6th committee has delayed a highly anticipated deposition with former Justice Department officials central to the efforts to overturn the election again. Jeffrey Clark, who was involved in trying to help then President Trump overturn 2020 continues to deal with a medical condition which delayed his deposition earlier this month. In the meantime, Erica, lots more happening.

HILL: Yes, in the meantime, you're right, we are learning more about at least one of the lawmakers who texted with then White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in the buildup to the insurrection.

CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid joining us now.

So, Jim Jordan putting it out there that one of these text messages that's been revealed was his.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This has been a big outstanding question this week after the House select committee revealed some text messages to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, some of which were from lawmakers pushing ideas and possibilities about how they could potentially try to undermine the outcome of the 2020 election.

Now, lawmakers were not named by the committee. The committee has said in the next few weeks they'll consider naming them. Reporters weren't going to wait for that, so they got to work trying to figure out who sent these texts, especially these U.S. lawmakers pushing theories about how to potentially disenfranchise voters.

One of the texts, as you said, has been identified as being from Representative Jim Jordan.

Now, CNN has learned that Jordan forwarded this text to Meadows, laying out a theory about how former Vice President Mike Pence could stop the certification of the 2020 election results. Now, the text read in part, on January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence as president of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all.

This is just an example of the intense pressure that Pence was facing, not just from the former president, but also from his allies to act on these unproven legal theories.

Now, Jordan's spokesman said in a statement, emphasizing that this was not an original text, this was a forward, saying, quote, Mr. Jordan forwarded the text to Mr. Meadows and Mr. Meadows certainly knew it was a forward.

But the committee insists that this is just an example of how they believe Meadows was at the center of this effort to try to overturn the results of the election, and one of the many reasons that they want him to come in and sit for a deposition.

Now, interestingly, Erica, yesterday I was speaking with a former White House official trying to just figure out who may have sent some of these texts and this person suggested that Representative Jordan was to savvy, to sophisticated to put anything like this in a text message. Turns out, not the case. SCIUTTO: Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Joining us now, Elliot Williams, former deputy assistant attorney general.

This is what's clear. I don't know what difference forwarding or not makes.

[09:20:03]

It's the consistency.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Several sitting lawmakers, Republicans --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Were communicating with the White House about a deliberate effort to reject votes from states that Trump lost.

WILLIAMS: Right.

SCIUTTO: That's what it is. Based on nothing.

WILLIAMS: Based on absolutely nothing, Jim. And the bigger point is, who's surprised at this point? Like, we knew that there were go to be members of Congress. That information got revealed. And Jim Jordan had a consistent pattern of showing for Donald Trump and spewing these theories about the integrity of the election going back months.

And so it should shock nobody. I'm not surprised by it here. And it doesn't -- this doesn't change the underlying outcome. Now the question is, do you get him to come in to testify or do you get him to come in to provide more context? At this point, it doesn't really matter. You have the information that he forwarded.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Or, Erica, does he face any legal consequences, right?

HILL: Right. I mean there -- well, yes, I would -- I would actually ask both those questions of you, Elliot, right, could there be any legal ramification here? And to your point, is he even needed at this point because there is likely so much more information that the committee has that we don't know about?

WILLIAMS: You know, look -- I -- so, Erica, I do think it's unlikely that he gets charged with a crime on account of these text messages.

Now, if you give him an opportunity to come in, you do invite a bit of a circus. What you end up with is -- and more to the point, this is an individual who wanted to be on the January 6th committee in the first place. And this, if you recall, there was a fight over having him and another member of Congress participate.

It turns into a circus and a fight and you've lended him that ground if you give him the opportunity to come in and provide the context. These are damning on their face and I don't think there's much more

use to giving him an opportunity to provide more context to them. They can try, but I think it just invites a bigger fight.

SCIUTTO: Elliot, there's this point too.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Those lawmakers that were trying to help the president overturn the election based on false claims of fraud --

WILLIAMS: Right.

SCIUTTO: Were all elected in the same election --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: On the same day, on the same ballots, under the same state and federal election laws, which they all claim as some basis that the election was stolen from Trump.

WILLIAMS: Right. I think --

SCIUTTO: There's an odd contradiction there, wouldn't you say?

WILLIAMS: I -- no, I think that elections are fraudulent when Democrats win. That's the argument that they're attempting to make here, which is that, if our -- and the president started saying this. President Trump started saying this back in --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: The first time back in 2016, but back in June of 2020, saying that the only way I could lose this election is if there is fraud.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Making the point that there's no possible way that Democrats could actually win elections. But the hypocrisy is stunning, Jim, because, yes, all these individuals in some of these states that they are challenging won their elections and aren't challenging them.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. And when they're asked about it, they say their own elections were free and fair, by the way.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Happens to be.

HILL: I mean that's a -- that's another point where we can all say, oh, isn't this surprising?

SCIUTTO: Convenient.

HILL: Not at all. SCIUTTO: Yes.

Elliot Williams, thanks so much.

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Jim.

HILL: Next month, for the first time a woman will take the reins of the New York Police Department. The incoming commissioner, Keechant Sewell, joining us live next. Plenty to discuss. You'll want to stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:36]

SCIUTTO: Overnight, just extreme weather rocked parts of the U.S. stretching all the way from the Rockies to the Great Lakes. Thunderstorms with hurricane force wind gusts of 75 miles per hour reported across several states. The National Weather Service says the weather, the extreme weather, is unprecedented.

HILL: CNN correspondent Lucy Kafanov following all of this for us this morning from Davenport, Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From the Rockies to the Midwest, an intense storm system pummeled the region, producing tornadoes and hurricane-force winds in nine states. The massive storm system resulted in the most hurricane-force winds in a single day.

In Minnesota, the National Weather Service office in the twin cities confirming a tornado touched down in Plain View. Please calmly take shelter, they tweeted out. This is the first tornado reported in the state during the month of December.

In Colorado, clouds descend on to Boulder, bringing with it strong gusts of wind.

In El Paso County, high winds were responsible for knocking over tractor trailers. And the cause of delaying or canceling many flights at the Denver International Airport on Wednesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They canceled our flight. And I went to customer service and they didn't have any flights going out until Friday.

KAFANOV: Down in New Mexico, intense winds flipped this small plane over at the Santa Fe Airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first time that -- since I've been here that we've had this kind of extensive damage, especially to aircraft.

KAFANOV: Over in the plains, winds are producing dust storm conditions. In western Kansas, visibility on Interstate 70 is virtually nonexistent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll tell you, this is like a tornado.

KAFANOV: Intense winds whipping up dust and sand, shutting down parts of the road for several hours. While over in Garden City, Kansas, all flights were canceled to and from the airport.

The severe weather has left hundreds of thousands of people without power and comes less than a week after tornadoes ripped through eight states in the Midwest and the south.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: Now, this region is experiencing an unusually warm December. I may be bundled up now, but we saw a high of 75 degrees here in Davenport, Iowa, yesterday. That's an insane record. And the sad reality is, this is what climate change looks like. The extreme weather is here to stay. The question is, Jim and Erica, what we do collectively to stop that trajectory.

[09:30:01]

Guys, back to you.

SCIUTTO: Just remarkable weather events seemingly every day.

Lucy Kafanov, thanks so much.

HILL: Yes, and wild to think that it was 75 where Lucy is yesterday.