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Republican Coup Plans?; No Payouts to Separated Migrant Families; Federal Reserve Targets Inflation; Concerns Grow Over Omicron Variant. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 16, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello.I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We began with the world on high alert, concerns and questions mounting over the fast-spreading Omicron variant. Here in the U.S., COVID cases and hospitalizations are up 40 percent from last month. ICUs are nearly full, with one in five patients being COVID related, and deaths are up 12 percent from a month ago.

The reality is, we are trending in the wrong direction, which is why, in New York City, multiple Broadway shows have canceled performances this week because of COVID infections. Just two months after theaters began reopening and despite vaccine requirements for cast, crew and audience members, the Metropolitan Opera also announcing it will soon require all eligible audience members and employees to receive a booster shot.

Colleges, including Princeton, Cornell and others, are shifting the last days of fall semester online. And, today, France just announced it is banning all nonessential travel from the United Kingdom, which just broke its daily record for new cases.

The head of the E.U. Commission warning the Omicron variant is set to become the dominant variant in Europe by mid-January.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is joining us in New York, where entertainment, to education, to government services are all being upended.

Polo, let's just go one by one here, first, several Broadway shows canceled again, the Met soon to require boosters. What else are you learning?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana.

And on its surface, you may get that a feeling at least that we're taking a step back here. But it's important to point out that these are sporadic cancellations that we have seen at several -- just a few select shows, because of these breakthrough cases that have been reported among some of the cast and crew at some of these popular shows, very popular shows.

Like, we're talking "Hamilton," "Ain't Too Proud," "Doubtfire," and the list goes on. One of the main reasons, again, is those companies want to make sure, obviously, that you do have the ability to actually substitute some of those employees and some of those cast members. So, as a result, they have canceled a few select shows.

But, nonetheless, it's certainly not good news for an industry that was hit particularly hard just months after its big return.The pandemic force the closure of Broadway for obviously a long time here. So that's certainly a concern, but nonetheless, something that authorities are monitoring here in New York City, as more of those cancellations are very possible with more of these breakthrough cases reported in Broadway.

CABRERA: We're also learning, Polo, that the Manhattan DA's office has had an outbreak, now causing staffing shortages and other disruptions. What more do you know?

SANDOVAL: Yes, it was described as a material uptick in COVID- positive cases here that were detected with the district attorney's office.

In a letter that was sent to staff, they said that many of those cases have been relatively mild to moderate. And they do expect, obviously, for recoveries for those individuals there. And, yes, it has led to some staff shortages. So they are certainly trying to keep up with -- obviously, with the caseload.

But then they're also recommending against staff attending off-site holiday parties. They believe that that is what this uptick in cases is linked to.

CABRERA: A holiday party. There you go.

Polo, you are also there on NYU's campus right now.We talked about colleges there. They're not requiring, but are strongly urging faculty to change final exams to remote or online formats, plus a new booster requirement?

SANDOVAL: Yes, it's a considerable acceleration in the number of cases that they have noticed here on NYU campus.

And, really, there are multiple schools also that are going in that direction, where they're recommending that faculty simply go back to remote for their final exams. I have spoken to a lot of students this morning and this afternoon, Ana. And they are largely -- they agree with the step to ensure the safety of these students, especially before they head home for the holidays.

So that's kind of what we're hearing here. But at the same time, some of the students, including the one that we're about to hear from, is actually more concerned about the spring and wants to make sure that these kinds of steps -- or at least that the -- that NYU continues to take steps to ensure the safety of faculty and staff after the holiday season.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSHUA PAOLILLO, NYU GRADUATE STUDENT: I feel like if the cases are high, a little bit, yes, because I'm actually going to be a T.A. next semester. So I would be interacting with a lot of students.

And I would -- if the cases are high, I would prefer to go online, but only in that sort of case, because I do value in person teaching. But it's if it's needs to be, it needs to be type thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: So, there's The safety and there's obviously The convenience of taking a final remotely. That's why students here do largely agree with this.

[13:05:05]

And then, finally, just to put a button this on, Ana, they are also on board with the fact that they will be required to upload proof of their booster by the start of the spring semester.

CABRERA: Polo Sandoval, thank you.

Let's tune to Dr. Peter Hotez now, a professor and dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

Dr. Hotez, first, just how concerned are you right now with what we're seeing?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Yes.

No, it's very distressing, because we knew an Omicron wave was coming because it picked up in the United Kingdom. But in the past, Ana, for both Alpha and the Delta variant, once it picked up in the U.K., we had about four to six weeks before it really started climbing here. And that happened with both previous variants.

So, on that basis, I would have thought, OK, maybe towards the end of January. But this thing is so aggressive and so highly transmissible, this is why we're seeing it now, especially in New York.

In New Jersey, where Dr. Walensky said a couple of days ago that about 13 percent of the variants now in New York and New Jersey are the Omicron variant, it's probably -- and it could be double that by now.

CABRERA: Well, and just yesterday, U.S. researchers reported the Omicron variant is markedly resistant to four major vaccines used globally, plus every authorized antibody treatment.

So, for people who may say, this doesn't sound good, but it looks like Omicron is resulting in mostly mild illness, so how worried should I really be, what say you?

HOTEZ: Well, clearly, just having two doses of either of the mRNA vaccines will not be adequate. You're going to see a lot of symptomatic breakthrough infections and even potentially some hospitalizations.

Once you get that third dose, and, as Dr. Fauci has been saying, all week, you get a big 30- to 40-fold rise in virus-neutralizing antibodies with spillover to the Omicron variant.So, no question you will be better off.

Even having said that, with the third immunization, data coming out of the U.K., the U.K. Health Security Agency, has said about 70 to 75 percent protection against symptomatic illness, so not quite as good as it is against the other variants. That's point one.

Point two, that level of protection is that is maybe the best-case scenario, because it starts to decline after a few months, based on data coming out of Germany. So that's why this is going to be so problematic is, we will see break through symptomatic illness, hopefully not much in the way of hospitalizations, but it's going to force us to be cautious.

And the other concern that I have is among our health care workers, health care providers who got boosted maybe a couple of months ago. They were the first to adopt that third immunization. Are they having waning protection? And do we have to worry about maintaining the health care work force during this surge?

And so that's one of my biggest worries. And should we even think about a second booster for that select population of health care providers? And I think all of this needs to be put on the table, because, remember, we don't have the Pfizer drug, right, Paxlovid. We're not going to have an Omicron-specific booster.

So we have to deal with the cards we're dealt with.

CABRERA: Right.

HOTEZ: And maybe a second booster is in the cards.

CABRERA: I think it's so important to just put everything out there, to be as transparent as possible. Information is power. And yet I think a lot of Americans are just so tired of all of this, right?

Many have done everything you tell them to do. They have got their three shots. They have been wearing masks, but now they hear of more shutdowns, more restrictions. We have been told we're beyond the point of snuffing out COVID entirely, right? We're going to have to live with it.

So I guess the question is, how can we get there, to live with it and still have a sense of normalcy?

HOTEZ: Well, again, I think we have to max out our ability to vaccinate the American population.

You have -- we have got a split country. We have got one part of the country that's all in on health and medical interventions. They will do what's recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and the FDA. And if they say they need boosters, we need boosters.

But we have another important segment of the country that's not going to abide by anything, that's refusing to get vaccinated. And we're seeing those deaths climb among those populations. As I like to say -- I don't like to say -- it's terrible -- 150,000 unvaccinated Americans have lost their lives since June over the last six months.

And those are lives that did not have to be lost, but they were lost because of defiance over getting vaccinated. And that number is not an end number. It's about to double because the Institute for Health Metrics say we can go from 800,000 deaths total to one million, and that's all going to be among the unvaccinated, or overwhelmingly.

CABRERA: Well, CDC vaccine advisers are actually meeting today to revisit the benefits and the risks of the J&J vaccine.

And a source tells CNN the majority of today's discussion will focus on whether that vaccine should be used at all, or if maybe its use should be narrowed to certain populations.

[13:10:05]

I do wonder if the damage is already done when it comes to public trust in this vaccine? Does it make sense to just maybe take J&J off the table?

HOTEZ: Yes, as I like to say, sometimes, it doesn't take much for a vaccine, even a good vaccine, to be voted off the island because of public perception.

And, unfortunately, that looks like what's happening. And it took two hits. The first hit was the fact that almost all of our vaccine effectiveness data is coming out of Israel and the U.K. And the J&J vaccine is not used in those two countries to an appreciable extent.

So, people who got the J&J vaccine often felt cheated that they weren't getting informed on what's happening with their vaccine that they got because the CDC was not collecting sufficient data. Then you throw on top of that this rare event, which occurs anywhere from one to 100,000, one to a million, but it's a serious event, possibly higher, in young women, either because they're on birth control or pregnant.

CABRERA: Right.

HOTEZ: And now the CDC says maybe we should take another look at it.

That will have a -- no matter what happens, that's going to have a chilling effect in the United States. And so public perception is not going to tolerate the vaccine. It's too bad, Ana, because it's actually a very good vaccine. And it has advantages over the mRNA vaccine in terms of maybe in terms of durability in protection, because it helps to stimulate production of what are called CD8- positive cells that the mRNA vaccines don't do as well.

CABRERA: Yes, it works a different way.

HOTEZ: Yes.

CABRERA: Right.

I do want to squeeze in one quick final question here, because, of course, it's the holidays. More people are traveling.

I have to have you listened to something the CEOs of Southwest and American Airlines said yesterday about masks on planes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY KELLY, CEO, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: Yes, I think the case is very strong that masks don't add much, if anything, in the air cabin environment. It's very safe and very high quality compared to any other indoor setting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Parker?

DOUG PARKER, CEO, AMERICAN AIRLINES: I concur. The aircraft, it's the safest place you can be. It's true of all of our aircraft. They all have these HEPA filters and the same airflow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Dr. Hotez, would you get on a plane right now or in the coming weeks without a mask?

HOTEZ: No.

And we have data from the National Academy of Sciences published in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a systematic review. And we also have randomized clinical trial designs out of -- that were done in Bangladesh by Stanford and Yale. So the data supports use of the masks, use of masks.

But, also, why say this now, when we have the most transmissible variant of all accelerating? I don't know. Some of these CEOs, they have the emotional intelligence of a doorknob. I don't know why they would say that kind of thing.

CABRERA: Dr. Peter Hotez, it's always great to talk with you. Thank you so much for joining us.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

CABRERA: Turning now to the economy and a quick check of the markets, showing the Dow is relatively flat, just up about 70 points right now, in the wake of some big developments.

Jobless claims rose slightly to 206,000, still down significantly from where the year started, and it's still remaining close to a 52-year low, this as the Federal Reserve just announced it is preparing to take action inflation, meaning interest rates are going up.

Let's bring in Justin Wolfers. He's a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan.

Good to see you again, Justin.

It was just a few months ago, you will recall, the Fed suggested inflation was temporary, no need to do anything. Now they are making moves in a big way. What does that say to you?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: I actually think there's a remarkable degree of continuity with what the Fed is doing.

While they have officially given up on this word transitory, the reality is, they published their forecasts just yesterday. And while they see inflation as having been high in 2021 -- That's the year that's almost over -- they see inflation back down to 2.6 percent next year, 2.3 percent the year after, 2.1 percent the year after.

So the truth is, the Fed's own models, its own forecasts suggest that much of the talk about inflation is somewhat, well, inflated. Two- point-something percent inflation's awfully similar to one-point- something percent inflation. That's a rate of price rise that you barely notice.

I'm not saying that we don't have inflation now. Of course we do. And of course your viewers are feeling it. But it appears that, when you look at the forecast coming out of the Fed, coming out of Wall Street banks, coming out of academics, it all points to inflation coming down relatively soon.

CABRERA: OK, so a lot of people, though, don't feel like this is no big deal.

A new CNN poll shows 75 percent of Americans are worried about the state of the economy in their community. And when asked to rank the severity of issues affecting the economy, here what'd they say; 80 percent say rising cost of food and other everyday items; 77 percent say rising cost of housing; 70 percent cite rising costs of gas as a major problem.

[13:15:13]

You have described the concerns about inflation as divorced from reality. But what do you say to people who have those genuine concerns?

WOLFERS: I should be more careful, then, Ana.

What I mean, to say is, yes, prices are rising right now, yes, that feels painful, but help is on the way. This is just the groans of an economy reopening. Sometimes, demand gets a little ahead of supply. We're trying to turn the Titanic around.

And the reality is, prices are rising right now. But most experts seem to expect inflation to hit much more livable levels anytime now. So let's -- we have a vicious loop, where the media, we're telling people that inflation is here, and it's very painful. And then people then tell us in surveys that inflation is here, and it's very painful.

That's true. The bigger question for our viewers is, how long is this going to be here? And the answer seems to be, in a year's time, this will be just a memory.

CABRERA: OK, hope that's the case. What grade would you give the economy right now?

WOLFERS: I think we're all the way up to a B-plus. And I got to tell you, I'm not a guy who gives easy grades.

We are still -- unemployment is down to four-point-something. Inflation is projected to get to something pretty normal pretty soon. That B-plus is the reason that the Fed no longer feels the need to give the economy all the extra help that it's been giving it. If we manage to keep on the current trajectory, then we're going to get back to many of our pre-pandemic levels within just a few months.

I might have hoped that we'd get there quicker, but I'm pleased to see that we're getting there and people who want jobs are increasingly able to find them.

CABRERA: Justin Wolfers, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here with us.

WOLFERS: Always good fun, Ana.

CABRERA: We have some breaking news now. The Justice Department is no longer planning payouts to settle lawsuits with migrant families, families that were victimized by the Trump White House's family separation policy.

I want to bring in CNN's Evan Perez.

Evan, there were negotiations. So how did this reversal come about?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

Well, the Justice Department is not saying exactly why they're no longer doing this. But I think you can see what happened in the last few weeks with the political criticism, some of the criticism coming not only from members of Congress, but also on right-wing television assailing the president for pursuing this course of action, which was, as you remember, payments of up to $450,000 for these families whose children were taken away from them.

Now the Justice Department says that they discontinuing those talks, according to the lawyers on the other side. We got a response from the ACLU just a few minutes ago. They say -- quote -- "The U.S. government deliberately abused young children. And yet the Biden administration has allowed politics to stand in the way of making it right. And that's shameful."

Bottom line, Ana, one of the things we'd heard from officials in the administration at the Justice Department was the reason to pursue these settlements was that if you go to litigate this, to fight this out in court, the taxpayers are going to end up paying a lot more for what happened during the Trump administration.

And so now that this is the course that they're going to take, I think you can guess how this is going to work out. As many as 3,000 kids were taking from the families during this Trump administration policy. The Biden administration has reversed that, obviously. And they're trying to reunite some of those families, but it's a very, very slow, painstaking process -- Ana.

CABRERA: Yes.

At last check, there were still more than 200 children whose parents had still not been made contact with. They're trying to put them back together.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Correct. Right.

CABRERA: Thank you so much, Evan Perez, for that update.

A stunning admission from a sitting member of Congress, the GOP's Jim Jordan now revealing he was the lawmaker who sent a coup plan to former Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. How he's trying to explain it away -- ahead.

Plus, she's the ex-cop who claims she meant to use her Taser when she fatally shot an unarmed black man with her gun. Now Kim Potter is set to testify in her own defense any moment.

And, soon, President Biden will present the Medal of Honor to three American heroes. We will bring that to you live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:24:06]

CABRERA: Today, new evidence that among those who tried to overthrow the presidential election were people elected to protect America's democracy.

Republican Congressman Jim Jordan confirms he is one of the lawmakers who has had his texts revealed by the January 6 Committee. The day before the Capitol riot, Jordan texted Trump's then Chief of Staff Mark Meadows a literal coup plan.

It reads in part -- quote -- "On January 6,2021, Vice President Mike Pence, as president of the Senate, should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all."

Jordan is trying to defend that coup plan, saying it was actually written by someone else, he just forwarded it to Meadows. Jordan is also upset that only part of that text was read out loud by the committee, saying important context was left out.

[13:25:00]

Now, either way, it's another example have established and sometimes elected Republicans waging a campaign to arguably steal the election. Again, that confirms Jordan communicated with Meadows.

Here's what Jordan has said when asked about his communications with the president himself on the day of the riot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Do did you talk to the former president that day?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I have talked to the former president umpteen times, thousands. I mean, maybe not thousands...

BAIER: I mean on January 6.

JORDAN: ... countless, countless times. I talk to the president. I never talk about what we talk about, because I just don't think that's appropriate, just like I don't talk about what happens in Republican conferences.

BAIER: Sure.

JORDAN: But I have talked to the president numerous times. I continue to talk to the president since he's left office.

BAIER: No, no, I mean on January 6, Congressman.

JORDAN: Yes. I mean, I have talked to the president -- I have talked to the president so many -- I can't remember all the days I have talked to him. But I have certainly talked to the president.

QUESTION: Did you speak with President Trump on January 6?

JORDAN: Yes, I mean, I speak -- I spoke with the president last week. I speak with the president all the time. I spoke with him on January 6. I mean, I talk with President Trump all the time.

That's -- I don't think that's unusual. I would expect members of Congress to talk with the president of the United States when they're trying to get done the things they told the voters in their district to do. I'm actually kind of amazed sometimes that people keep asking this question.

Of course, I talk to the president's all the time. I talk with him -- like I said, I talked with him last week.

QUESTION: On January 6, did you speak with him before, during or after the Capitol was attacked?

JORDAN: I have to go -- I spoke with him that day after, I think after. I don't know if I spoke with him in the morning or not. I just don't know. I would have to go back and -- I mean, I don't know that -- when those conversations happened. But what I know is, I spoke with him all the time.

REP. JAMES MCGOVERN (D-MA): Did you speak with the former president on January 6? Did you talk to the former before, during or after the attack on the Capitol?

JORDAN: Of course I have talked to the president. MCGOVERN: Or was it all three?

JORDAN: Of course I have talked to the president. I have been clear about that. I talk to him all the time.

Of course, I talk to the president. I talked to him that day. I have been clear about that. I don't recall the number of times.

MCGOVERN: Was it before, during or after the attack on the Capitol?

JORDAN: I talked to the president after the attack.

MCGOVERN: So not before or during?

JORDAN: Right.

MCGOVERN: OK. And you -- and you...

JORDAN: And I have been clear about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We will let you decide if any of that is clear.

And let's not forget Republican leaders wanted Jordan on the committee to investigate the insurrection.

Let's break it all down with CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, and law professor and former federal prosecutor Kim Wehle.

Congressman, a sitting member of Congress from your party, the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, making real efforts to overturn the will of the people. I'm just going to ask you directly, how big of a threat to democracy is Jim Jordan?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, sadly, there are far too many members who believe this false narrative that the president, the former president, has been pushing that the election was stolen.

And they were trying to obviously overturn the results out of many states, including mine of Pennsylvania, where the count was, in fact, certified and litigated. So it's quite clear to me that too many members on my side of the aisle are engaging in this anti-democratic behavior.

And it's a -- it is stunning and shocking, but, sadly, perhaps not as surprising as one would think.

And some are just resistant to the facts. The facts are just not going to persuade them.

CABRERA: Right.

DENT: I think Jordan -- I think Jim Jordan sincerely believes that the election was stolen and that probably President Biden is not a legitimate president.

CABRERA: So is he a threat to democracy?

DENT: Well, I would say that he and others who continue to push this false narrative are taking this country dangerously close to a precipice that we don't want to get anywhere near.

I am very worried about democratic backsliding. I'd like to think that our institutions are strong, and that they will hold, but I don't know how much more of this our nation can take. And I think -- I implore people like Jim Jordan and other Republicans to step back and move on and acknowledge reality and the facts.

They have to stop and stop pandering to the president. Their loyalty should be to the Constitution and to the rule of law, not to a former disgraced president.

CABRERA: Kim, this is indeed another case of shocking, but not surprising, to learn that Jim Jordan is somebody who sent this message.

In July, Congresswoman Liz Cheney said Jordan could be a material witness in the committee's probe because he was involved in meetings in the run-up to January 6, as well as planning for the day and the objections to the election certification. Do you expect he will be called to testify before his colleagues?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: I would expect yes.

Clearly, he has material information about the planning. And more and more of it's coming out that people within the White House, people within the United States Congress were part of a deliberate effort to, let's be clear, not take the election from one party or another, but take the election from the American people, from the voters.