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NYPD Top Cop Pick Highlights Industry's Lack of Female Leadership; CDC Advisory Panel Voted to Recommend Pfizer, Moderna Vaccines over J&J; DeSantis Introduces "Stop Woke Act" to Ban Critical Race Theory. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 16, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: For the first time ever, New York City will have a female police commissioner. Mayor elect, Eric Adams, announced Wednesday that Keechant Sewell will lead the nation's largest police department. This morning she told CNN's Jim Sciutto how she reacted when Adams delivered the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEECHANT SEWELL, NAMED NYC'S POLICE COMMISSIONER: I wasn't sure I heard him correctly at first. It was actually really exhilarating. I know that I can do this job. I am thrilled that he believed in me to be able to give me this opportunity to do this job. But when he told me that, I actually felt phenomenal because I said, now I'm part of this team and we can get started immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Sewell's hire highlights how slowly female candidates have moved into the pipeline to be considered for chief positions. Research shows that women make up only 12 percent of law enforcement positions nationwide and only 3 percent of executive level positions.

Here to discuss is Dorothy Schultz, the first captain of the Metro North Commuter Railroad Police. She is currently a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. And retired LAPD police Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, she's also the author of "The Confidence Chronicles: The Greatest Crime Story Never Told." Ladies, great to have you here. Sergeant Dorsey, tell me your thoughts on Keechant Sewell being named the NYPD Commissioner for the first time in history.

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, listen, this a great moment for her, and I applaud my sister, in law enforcement. I wish her well. But let's not be naive. This is still patriarchal society, the good old boys still run this system. And listen, just in 2020 there were about 60 male police chiefs who were either resigned, run out on a rail or forced to retire. Dallas Police Chief Renee Hall, Carmen Best was run out on the rail after the city council cut her salary, and others -- Erica Shields in Atlanta. How come the female police chiefs never seem to make it through their entire contract?

It So, I hope they're not setting Ms. Sewell up for failure. This is still a good old boy system. I've heard from Benevolent Association leader, Pat Lynch, that he wants her to get them back on course, set the city right and for him, a guy who hasn't seen a police shooting or beating of a black man that he can't get excited about, makes me think he's expecting her to run roughshod over people that look like her.

[15:35:02]

CAMEROTA: Professor, your thoughts?

DOROTHY M. SCHULTZ, RETIRED CAPTAIN, METRO NORTH COMMUTER RAILROAD POLICE DEPARTMENT: I think the -- I agree with as far as so many women chiefs being bounced out of their positions. I think the interesting thing is more than half of them were bounced out by female mayors.

CAMEROTA: Well, why is that? I mean, what's behind that?

SCHULTZ: I think it's a lack of confidence in many ways, that the women mayors are not sure of themselves and it's very easy to push the blame onto police chiefs, or in this case, police commissioner. Depending on which either you would see.

Because I look at Minneapolis where so much of the issues surrounding police have started, they have the most recent set of histories. And there the male police chief who actually replaced another ousted female was able to retain his position. And now that he's retiring, announced he's retiring, some people feel he betrayed them by not being saying that earlier. But it's amazing that he was able to withstand the local pressure, and so many of the women chiefs, though we can't say they could withstand the pressure. We don't know that. Because the mayor didn't (INAUDIBLE) to withstand the pressure. Carmen Best, citizens fought hard (INAUDIBLE) and we saw what the end result was.

CAMEROTA: So, I mean, what I hear you both saying is this is going to be particularly hard for her. And particularly also, Sergeant Dorsey, because of the crime spike that we're seeing in various cities. So, I just want to play for you what the San Francisco Mayor just said yesterday about the future of crime fighting in her city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR LONDON BREED, (D) SAN FRANCISCO: It is time that the reign of criminals who are destroying our city, it is time for it to come to an end. And it comes to an end when we take the steps to be more aggressive with law enforcement, more aggressive with the changes in our policies, and less tolerant of all the bullshit that has destroyed our city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Sergeant Dorsey, I want to get your thoughts on that, because does that signal that the pendulum is swinging back right now to, as she said, more aggressive crime fighting.

DORSEY: Well, you now, listen, I mean, it's not uncommon, and we've seen this before where police departments will pull things back and let things get out of control. I mean, the bullshit she's referring to didn't just happen. And so, why now all of a sudden does this black woman of all things want police officers to get more aggressive, more police killings, more unnecessary shootings, more uses of force that don't need to occur.

So, now she's going to sic her police officers on an unsuspecting public? I find all of that offensive. This is not anything new and I fault her if there's bullshit in her city for not tamping it down sooner.

CAMEROTA: But what's the answer, Sergeant Dorsey? I mean, she saying that it's time to start cracking down on crime. I mean, I gather that that hasn't been happening, is her subtext.

DORSEY: Well, listen, I mean, you know, needs to happen is that officers need to be more proactive and less reactive, and they need to be, in those instances when they are doing something that's contrary to their training, held accountable. That would be nice. And so, all of that sounds good and sexy, but we'll see what ultimately happens when this pendulum swings and now you have officers being over aggressive in a community.

And so, my hope and prayer is that Ms. Sewell has a real good support system around her because after all, she's an outsider coming from a South County Police Department as a detective. And myself being a street cop for 20 years. You know, street cops have very little respect for detectives who make it out into the supervisory realm.

And so, will see what happens. I pray that they're not setting her up for failure, and I hope she's not coming in naive thinking Pat Lynch and his ilk are going to be really supportive of her. They've already said this is a different culture than what she's used to. Get ready, strap in.

CAMEROTA: Professor, you, as we mentioned, were the first female captain of the Metro-North Commuter Railroad Police Department. And I'm just wondering, do you think that women bring something different to that job in leadership than men do?

SCHULTZ: I really don't, and I find in many ways that that position is held primarily by people outside law enforcement and in some ways, I think it's held women back. Because the difference -- expressing difference has been by many interpreted as weakness. And that's not a good thing for women. And is not a good thing for policing.

[15:40:00]

Each individual brings different skills to any jobs that they hold. And to say that all minority police officers bring certain skills or all women police officers bring in a different set of skills, what you need is an amalgam of skills. Some people are better at certain things than others, and one of the criticisms, possibly, of policing is that those kinds of differences have not historically been recognized. We are all the same. We all wear the same blue uniform or brown uniform or green uniform depending on the department, and there's been very little recognition that different people bring different skills that are not necessarily related to this (INAUDIBLE).

Well, Sergeant Dorsey, Professor Schultz, I really appreciate the candid conversation in the straight talk of sharing your thoughts as we watch this new era in New York. Thank you.

DORSEY: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, the Justice Department is no longer planning payouts to settle lawsuits with migrant families. These are families that were impacted by the Trump White House family separation policy. So, we have all the details for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

CAMEROTA: A CDC vaccine advisory panel has just voted to recommend Moderna and Pfizer vaccines over the J&J one. CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here. So, give us the breaking news -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, this is really quite stunning. The CDC advisors 15-0 voted to recommend that Pfizer and Moderna be considered the preferred vaccines over Johnson & Johnson.

Now I'm going to tell you why. It's not so much about efficacy, yes, Pfizer and Moderna are more effective, but really, it's about safety.

Let's take look at some numbers that were discussed today by the CDC advisors. 17 million people in the United States have received Johnson & Johnson. 54 of them have developed a rare blood clotting condition, rare but extremely dangerous. Nine of those 54 people have died. The people most at risk are women in their 40s. It's two deaths per million for women ages 40 through 49, but you can't predict who's at risk. You can't say, oh, you have this particular medical condition, don't get Johnson & Johnson. You don't know who is going to be at risk. And patients deteriorate very quickly.

A CDC doctor gave these very pointed remarks: We've been struck when reviewing these cases by how rapidly patient status deteriorates and results in death. That's by CDC Dr. Isaac See.

So where does that leave everyone? If you got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, don't worry. It is very effective. If you have not gotten this blood clotting disorder, you will not get it, likely, because this happens within the first two weeks of getting J&J, so you're fine. But what they're saying is moving forward, Pfizer and Moderna are preferred.

And many more people are getting Pfizer and Moderna already, but the CDC just wants to make it clear, when you go to get vaccinated, Pfizer and Moderna are preferred -- Alisyn, Victor. CAMEROTA: I mean obviously worrisome for people who gotten the J&J vaccine in the past two weeks, but as you point out, the numbers are less than one in a million. I mean extremely rare, still it sounds like the CDC is now addressing it. So, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much for the breaking news.

COHEN: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to this. Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis is pushing a bill that would allow parents to sue school districts if their kids are subjected to critical race theory. Democrats accuse the governor of playing the culture war card. All of that is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

CAMEROTA: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis just announced his latest move in the culture war over critical race theory. The governor's new Stop Woke Act allows parents to sue schools that teach CRT in the classroom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Nobody wants this crap. OK? This is an elite driven phenomenon being driven by bureaucratic elites, elites in universities and elites in corporate America and they're trying to shove it down the throats of the American people. You're not doing that here in the state of Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Well, Florida's school board had banned critical race theory back in June. Critics say this new proposal escalates a fight over something now nonexistent. Also encourages parents to harass schools that try to teach history about racism and slavery.

Joining us now is one of those critics Florida state Senator Shevrin Jones. Senator, thanks so much for being here. So why don't you like the governor's Stop Woke Act?

STATE SEN. SHEVRIN JONES (D-FL): Well, first of all, Alisyn, I think we should be honest that the governor knows good and well and the Republicans know that CRT is not taught in our K-12 schools or even our workplaces. It's unfortunate that instead of running on forward looking ideas to improve the livelihood of the 22 million Floridians who live within the state of Florida, they have resorted to this anti- woke conversation or rhetoric. That is just distracting them from their failed policy that has happened over the years.

CAMEROTA: But, Senator, that sort of dismisses that something is happening in the classrooms. I mean it is not just the governor, parents. You see all these school board meetings where parents are so worked up over this curriculum. Basically, it's white parents who are concerned that their white kids are being taught somehow or being made to feel guilty somehow about institutional racism or slavery. I mean let me just play for you -- lest you doubt something is

happening, here are parents, at just a smattering of school board meetings this summer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be damned if I will allow a Marxist revolution to take place in this country. And we need to reject our children even being taught it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Politics cannot be in these schools unless it is a political class.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CRT focuses on mainly on teaching cultural differences instead of commonalities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: So even if you don't call it CRT what do you say to those Floridians, those parents who don't like what's going on in the classroom?

JONES: Well, here's what I would say. I want the Republicans to go ahead and show their hand. This is not about CRT. This is not about the 1619 project. Let's be clear. This is them wanting to stop teaching black history.

Because when you talk about CRT, when you talk about the 1619 project, that is exactly what this is. It's talking about policies that has created -- racist policies that were created years ago during even the Jim Crow era that has put us in a position we are in now.

Teaching children history, teaching them black history, which I remind you is American history, and saying that you don't want your child to learn it. All that does, it puts us in a predicament to where you have children who feel as if it's OK to use racial slurs inside our schools. Where children feel that it is OK to do the things to make it seem as if they are not a part of what we call is America.

Every child should feel a part of this. How do they feel a part of it? By knowing how we got here. It is an ugly past but there's a truth to everything that's happened in the past in the United States of America.

CAMEROTA: Is it possible that the curriculum is being taught in too heavy handed a way that is somehow making kids feel bad?

[15:55:00]

JONES: Not a chance. There has been no evidence within the state of Florida of showing that critical race theory is being taught in the classroom. As a former science teacher who has had conversations with history teachers, who even speak to history teachers to this day, critical race theory is not taught.

Critical race theory is a study that is taught in law school. As a matter of fact, even in our colleges and universities critical race theory is an elective.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I hear you. I just mean that something has happened in the past year where the -- somehow the teaching of our country's past and slavery, and institutional racism, has made many parents, I just played you a few examples, but we know this was happening all over the country, very uncomfortable. And I'm wondering what the solution is?

JONES: Well, one, the solution is that we have to continue to speak the truth about how all of this started is from Donald Trump. Donald Trump started with his anti-CRT rhetoric and the (INAUDIBLE) that went forth. They saw that it fit into a base and because it fit into a base, now it has grown and grown across the country. So much so to where you even have states who are banning certain books where children can't even read to learn about the history of Black America. Because that is exactly what it is.

So, the only thing that has happened is that we have a president who has rallied up a base and now that base, the Republicans see that it worked. And because they believe it worked, they are sticking to it regardless of who they're hurting.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, and I only have a minute left. First Governor Abbott in Texas allows random people to sue if they think that somebody has assisted in abortions. Then Governor Newsom in Texas is going to take -- use that tactic to try to stop gun violence and gun sales. Now Governor DeSantis is using that model in Florida to allow any parent to sue a school district. Where does this end?

JONES: Well, the only place that this ends is that we have to begin to vote these individuals out who believe in this type of rhetoric starting right here in Florida. And the only way we're going to able to do that is by telling the truth of what black history is and what American history is.

CAMEROTA: Florida State Senator Shevrin Jones, thank you.

JONES: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: And thanks to all of you for joining me. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after this very short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)