Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci, The Effectiveness Of Our Vaccines Against The Omicron Virus and How to Get Optimum Protection; Judge Hands Down Longest Sentence Yet for a Capitol Rioter; Tiger Woods Returns to Golf Competition After Crash. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 17, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Stark warning today from health experts about the Omicron variant, one infectious disease expert saying a, quote, viral blizzard is about to hit this country. At least 40 states have now identified that variant, in addition to Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico. Today the nation's health leaders recommending booster shots for optimum protection.

Joining me now, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's the director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and chief medical adviser to the president. Dr. Fauci, good to have you with us. A lot of folks may have seen you earlier today at that White House briefing where you were talking about how effective our vaccines are when it comes to Omicron variant. And you said optimum protection is to have be fully vaccinated and then get that booster. For folk who is can't get a booster right now, who may not yet be eligible, maybe they just got that second dose, are they going to be protected against Omicron?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You know, Erica, I think they will be fine. What happens when you get the two-dose shot after a period of time, the depth and the amount of protection wanes a bit, and that's the reason why at this point it's recommended if you have an mRNA to get boosted six months or more after.

So, the booster that I spoke about at the press conference today really does bring up the level of the protection to a quite high level. And that's the reason why we are really encouraging very strongly that when you're eligible for a boost to get boosted because the data I showed indicated that particularly with Omicron, that the level of protection goes really rather low in a range that may not be as protective as we'd like.

But yet when you get that boost, it goes right up there. So, as you said, we're getting a wave of Omicron coming upon the country, and we want to be optimally protected. First, we've got to get the people who have not been vaccinated. That is absolutely essential, particularly with the oncoming weeks as we get into the depth of the winter. But as I mentioned boosters are really important.

HILL: Are you concerned at all as you talk about the need to get more Americans vaccinated, the CDC now recommending that an mRNA vaccine, either Pfizer or Moderna in this country is what they would recommend over J&J. They're pulling J&J. Are you concerned that that could further add to vaccine hesitancy among some people?

FAUCI: You know, I don't think so. What the CDC and all of us are doing, Erica, is being totally honest and transparent with the American public. And the data that's accumulated makes the CDC make an appropriate recommendation. First of all, if you only have as something that's accessible to you, if that's J&J, by all means please get vaccinated. It is always better to get vaccinated with some vaccine versus don't get vaccinated at all. But if you do have the choice for the reasons that the CDC gave that you should prefer to get an mRNA vaccine over the J&J.

HILL: When we look at booster shots, you know, it's not just folks who may have just gotten a second dose who may not yet be eligible, but children at this point are not. So, Pfizer just said earlier today that they are now testing a third dose in children under age 16. They also said that they need to test a third dose in young kids because the amount I guess the dosage that they were using they found wasn't effective. Do you think this could potentially delay the vaccine for 2 to 5-year-olds?

[15:35:00]

FAUCI: You know, I think out of necessity, Erica, it's going to make the time frame for when we get an Emergency Use Authorization for children that young, it will. It won't be likely until the second quarter of 2022, and we were hoping it would be in the first quarter. But at least from what Pfizer is saying, by the time they get all of the necessary data and go through all of the procedure of getting an Emergency Use Authorization, unfortunately, it's not going to be until the second quarter.

But you want to really get the right dose and the right regimen for the children. So, although you don't like there to be a delay, you want to get it right, and that's what they're talking about.

HILL: Yes, better to be right always, that is always what we want. Especially with kids. The CDC, Dr. Walensky was talking today about the successful test to stay program that they have piloted in a couple of different schools. Where it keeps kids in schools. It sounds like a great plan. I'm a parent of two kids, I want them in school too. Do you think that districts around the country will have the resources to follow this plan? Testing is still a major hurdle for a lot of people.

FAUCI: Yes, and that's the reason why the administration is putting a considerable effort on really jacking up the amount of tests that will be available that recently had put in several billion to get anywhere from 200 million to 500 million tests per month available.

And I think with that effort and attempt to get enough tests for anytime you need a test, particularly the point of care tests where you get a result right away, we're going to go in that direction, and we're there I hope very soon.

HILL: You know, I do want to ask you, too, we were just getting some information in here breaking news that the NFL is postponing three games due to COVID-19 issues around the league. You know, for a lot of people, this feels like deja vu all over the again, as we're looking at what's happening. I know we have vaccines now and boosters, and that's a great thing. But as we look at how this is playing out, what is your biggest concern today?

FAUCI: Well, my biggest concern is that we don't get people to fully appreciate why it's so important to do the things that you and I are talking around right now. We have -- we have the means. We have the capabilities of being able to control this. You know, we'd still have, Erica, 50 million or more people in this country who have not yet even gotten their first vaccination. That is really unacceptable. If we want to get through the challenge of a Delta, which is bad enough, we're looking it straight in the face. And then over your shoulder is coming Omicron. That's a very tenuous and difficult situation.

So, we've got to do the things that are available to us. Vaccination, boosting, masking when you're in an indoor setting, prudent, careful traveling when you go. Going to an airport, keeping your mask on. You have to have a mask on when you're on the plane. Those are the things that we've got to do, and we will be OK if we do that.

HILL: Look, there's been a lot of confusion throughout the pandemic. One of the things that's coming up repeatedly, especially this week -- I know you've been asked about it a lot -- but this term fully vaccinated. Now that you're saying as you said today at the White House briefing, optimum protection is to be fully vaccinated but have the booster. Do we need to change the definition of fully vaccinated?

FAUCI: Well, you know, Erica, it depends on what you're using the definition for. If you're using it for whether or not someone is essentially considered complying with the importance as well as the requirement to get vaccinated for a job or for getting into college. I don't think that's --

HILL: Right, what about protection though? I think people think of it more as protection, not as, OK, I need to have two shots to be here every day at CNN. I know that. Maybe that changes in the future, maybe it doesn't. I have my booster as well, but I think for people when they think fully vaccinated it's not even so much about places I can or can't go. It's how much protection do I have? What does fully vaccinated actually mean now?

FAUCI: Well, that's the point. And that's why I say it is a bit of semantics, Erica. If you're asking me as a health person, you should get boosted because optimal protection is boosted. The legalistic aspect of the court cases that are going through with regard to OSHA and the requirement for vaccination, that's going to get very confusing if you change what the requirement is. So, rather than getting mired in legal aspect, I can say as a health official, if you want to be optimally protected, get that boost, and don't worry about what the definition is.

HILL: OK, so, to be optimally protected we need the booster. We'll go with that since you're not the lawyer on this one. And I do understand that. [15:40:00]

I do want to ask you too about this report came out from the house oversight committee today lacking at the response of the Trump administration to COVID. Decisions that were made, efforts to block officials from speaking out, watering down guidance, testing guidance among them, and public health guidance for political purposes. I know you've spoken about this. You spoke with my colleague Dr. Sanjay Gupta about it and weighed back in March about some of your experience. I just want to play part of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: The thing that hit me like a punch through the chest was then all of a sudden, he got up and says, liberate Virginia, liberate Michigan. And I said to myself, oh, my goodness, what is going on here? It shocked me because it was such a jolt to what we were trying to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I found a lot of what I was reading in this report brought me back to, you know, what Sanjay had found in his discussions with you and others. How important is it to get this record out there, Dr. Fauci?

FAUCI: Well, it's always important, Erica, to get the facts and the truth out there, and that's what that report is doing. It was unfortunate that it was not a situation where we were optimally getting the message across. And as I said in that interview with Sanjay, Dr. Birx and I had put a lot of effort into getting a format out where people could actually address the outbreak in a way that would be optimal from a public health standpoint. And then the day after we did that, when that came out, I'll say it again as I said to Sanjay, I was floored by that because that was totally counterproductive.

HILL: You know, we're at this point now nearly two years in. I know you have got to be exhausted. So, many people are, though. There is the unknown that Omicron is bringing with it, the confusion about how many shots do I need to be fully protected. You did clear some of that up this afternoon. But I just wonder, there's no way to predict when this pandemic is going to be over. But given how exhausted, how worn- out people are, what do you say to some of these folks who just say I can't do it anymore? I'm done.

FAUCI: Well, you have to do it, Erica. I mean, everybody understands and we all have been through a two-year ordeal that is really unprecedented in the history of public health in our country. That is for sure, but we can't give in. We will win this war with this virus, but we will win it only because -- and because we apply the things that we have, the interventions. We are so fortunate that we have a highly effective and safe vaccine. We know what public health mitigations work. We have just got to hang in there. We can't give up. We're at a war. You know, if you really want to make a metaphor out of it, and you

know, take an analogy, it's sort of like in the beginning of World War II when we were losing all the battles and we were getting pushed back on the Pacific front and on the Europe front. If we had said, oh, my goodness, we're all fatigued, let's give up. That would not have been a good thing.

I think we need to look at it in the fact that we are at war with a very formidable enemy. And we're going to win the war because we're better than the virus.

HILL: And we actually know what those tools are to fight it, too. It's just a matter of getting everybody to use them. Dr. Anthony Fauci, always good to talk with you, thank you.

FAUCI: Thank you for having me.

HILL: This just in to CNN, a judge has handed down the longest sentence yet for a capitol rioter. We'll have those details for you next. Stay with us.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: This just into CNN, the Capitol Hill rioter who threw a fire extinguisher at police has just been sentenced to more than five years in prison. It is the longest sentence to date for a rioter.

CNN's Ryan Nobles following these developments for us. So, what more do we know about the sentencing and also this person?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, this is an individual by the name of Robert Scott Palmer. He's a Florida man who was caught by online sleuths who were pouring through all the video that came out of the January 6th riot. And he was spotted, as you mentioned, using a fire extinguisher and a wooden plank to attack a Capitol Police officer on that day, and today as you mentioned he was sentenced to more than five years in prison.

This is the longest sentence that's been handed down for any of the 150 Capitol riot defendants. Now what's interesting about this is it could set a benchmark for how some of these defendants are sentenced as we go along in this process.

Palmer actually pled guilty. He didn't even go through a trial. He was hoping to get a lighter sentence, but the district judge in this case made it clear that she was not going to allow him or other defendants off the hook easy. This is what Judge Tanya Chutkan said from the bench during the sentencing.

She said, quote: Every day we are hearing about reports of anti- democratic factions, people plotting potential violence in 2024. It has been made clear that trying to stop the peaceful transition of power, assaulting law enforcement -- and assault assaulting law enforcement I should say, is going to be met with certain punishment. And that includes not staying at home, not watching Netflix, and not doing what you were doing before you got arrested.

So, what Chutkan is making clear here is that you can't just plead guilty if you were a part of the riot here on January 6th and especially if you went out of your way to assault Capitol Police officers or other police officers and think that you're going to be let off with something with just probation or home arrest or something along those lines.

She is requiring people to do hard time, and that's exactly what she handed down in this case, and it's likely going to be in the future of many of these other Capitol riot defenders as well -- Erica.

HILL: Ryan Nobles, appreciate the update. Thank you.

[15:50:00]

Ten months after a horrendous car crash, Tiger Woods officially back in the game. His remarkable return is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Tiger Woods making a triumphant return today playing in his first competitive round since being seriously injured in a car crash back in February. Tiger teed off at the PNC Championship with his 12- year-old son Charlie.

CNN's Nadia Romero joining us now from Orlando. So, how did it go?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, that's the beauty of the PNC Championship. That he gets to get out there and have some fun and get back to play in front of all of us for the first time in almost a year.

And of course, there were those moments, the glimmers of the old Tiger Woods with that big, powerful swing that he's so known for. But he's still recovering. He said he wanted to come back and play right next to his 12-year-old son Charlie. He said to me I am his dad. I am not his coach, and I'll support him in anything he wants to do in life.

And then I asked him a follow-up question. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: And we've seen the video of the similarities. I mean your mannerisms and there's so many things that we can point out that he has that you have. What would be something that you would say makes him a different golfer, that makes him a little bit different than you?

TIGER WOODS, CHAMPIONSHIP GOLFER: Well, I didn't have speed like that, at that age. I was probably a little bit taller than Charlie is, you know, at that same age. I was skinny as a rail. You know, looked like a 1 iron. So, the way we move, they way we push off -- sorry, where he pushes off and how I used to push off, very similar. But that's what is neat about this event.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO (on camera): Well, everybody likes doting on their kids, right. Well, Tiger Woods is no different. No timeline on when he might return to full competitive play. He says, Erica, even then he'll probably come back part time.

[15:55:00]

And just as much as Americans like to see some of their heroes sometimes fall from grace, we all love a good comeback story -- Erica.

HILL: It is an excellent point and it never hurts when you throw their kids in the mix. Nadia, appreciate it, thank you.

HILL: Today, former police officer Kim Potter took the stand recalling the moment she shot and killed Daunte Wright earlier this year. We have the latest for you from the Minneapolis courtroom just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: In the season of giving, we wanted to show you how to help our top ten CNN Heroes for 2021 continue their important work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Anderson Cooper. Each of this year's top ten CNN Heroes proves that one person really can make a difference. And again, this year we're making it easy for you to support their great work.

Just go to CNNheroes.com. Click donate beneath any 2021 top ten CNN Hero to make a direct contribution to that hero's fundraiser on GoFundMe. You'll receive an email confirming your donation which is tax deductible in the United States. No matter the amount you can make a big difference in helping our heroes continue their life-changing work.

Right now, through January 3rd, your donations will be matched dollar for dollar up to a total of $500,000. CNN is proud to offer you this simple way to support each cause and celebrate all these everyday people changing the world. You can donate from your laptop, your tablet or your phone. Just go to CNNheroes.com. Your donation in any amount will help them help others. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And if you know someone who you would like to nominate to be a CNN Hero, just log on to CNNheroes.com and you can do that right now.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.