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Michigan Hospital Overloaded Ahead Of The Holidays; America on Alert as COVID Surges Ahead of Busy Holiday Week; Update on Coronavirus Responses Around the World; Reiner: Omicron May Be Most Contagious Virus of Our Lifetime; Michigan Hospital Overloaded Ahead of the Holidays; Rep. Larry Bucshon (R-IN) Discusses His Opposition to Vaccine Mandates. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 18, 2021 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: A little while later, the Jonas brothers lip- sync to a viral video where Long Islanders talking about President Biden or, as they described him, Biron (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you vaccinated?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up with the president, man.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Biron (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But the celebrity tweets weren't without their detractors, with critics saying, "What a waste of time," to, "I never thought I'd hate the Jonas brothers until now."
NEWSROOM continues right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN (voice-over): COVID making a comeback a week before Christmas. The Word Health Organization says Omicron is spreading faster than Delta.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all picking up again and it feels similar to the beginning.
BROWN: Scientists in the U.K. race to confirm what real-world data already implies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It kind of evades current vaccines and why we kind of need to give boosters at the moment.
BROWN: The COVID case surge, the biggest test yet for the Biden administration.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For the unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death.
BROWN: Why the vice president says the White House didn't see these variants coming.
Meantime, spiking cases forcing holiday shows to shutter and upending the return of live pro sports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe we're facing major cancellations.
BROWN: Tonight, the country's top COVID advisers reminding America that science can and will save us.
JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We have the tools to do it, but we need the American people to do their part, to protect themselves.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We will win this war with this virus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And tonight, America on alert in the face of an alarming new surge in new coronavirus infections, hospitalizations and deaths nationwide.
President Biden acknowledging the growing public concerns, now planning a speech on Tuesday focusing on the Omicron variant.
With this new COVID upswell, holiday celebrations and everyday life are becoming more disrupted by the day.
This afternoon, "Saturday Night Live" canceled its live studio audience for tonight along with musical guest, Charli XCX.
The Radio City Rockettes have canceled their famous Christmas Spectacular show because of breakthrough infections within the production.
Broadway has pulled down the curtain on shows.
The NFL and NHL have postponed games. And big-name players have tested positive.
And several colleges have shifted classes and exams online.
The rippling effect circling the globe.
Officials in Paris canceling the city's famous fireworks display as France bans big gatherings on New Year's Eve. Rome and other Italian cities completely cancelled New Year's festivities.
And Ireland is implementing an 8:00 p.m. curfew for bars and restaurants.
Here in the U.S., Omicron is expected to become the dominant variant, but as of now experts say the Delta variant is driving this latest surge.
Both cases and hospitalizations are at levels not seen since September at the end of the summer spike.
Dr. Anthony Fauci compares it to a war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: We will win this war with this virus. We know the public health mitigations work. We've just got to hang in there. We can't give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Vice President Kamala Harris is not helping the messaging and maybe adding to public jitters critics say by saying the White House didn't see either variant coming.
She told "The Los Angeles Times," quote:
"We didn't see Delta coming. I think most scientists did not, upon whose advice and direction we have relied, didn't see Delta coming. We didn't see Omicron coming. And that's the nature of what this awful virus has been, which, as it turns out, has mutations and variants."
With Christmas and New Year's Eve fast approaching, more than 20 million Americans are expected to fly over the next two weeks. There are concerns all that holiday travel will supercharge the spread.
So let's dive into the numbers. Right now, close to 73 percent of Americans have received at least one vaccine shot. And 61 percent are fully vaccinated, and 18 percent have received a booster shot.
Think about this as we start to see more Omicron cases, vaccine doses are down more than 20 percent in just the last week. We're starting to see cases rising once again nationwide, especially in the northeast, Midwest and south.
On Friday, more than 21,000 people tested positive for COVID in New York, the most there since the start of the pandemic.
Hospitalizations are starting to climb once again. Nearly 70,000 in the hospital right now. Those numbers have been going up for the past two months.
Deaths from the virus are also rising, averaging just under 1,300 a day, 8 percent more than last week.
[20:05:03]
In fact, no state has reported more cases over the past two weeks than New York. Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan round out the top five.
Bottom line, the nation's health experts say we need to dig in, wear masks and get the vaccine to keep the holidays merry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI (voice-over): We are in the situation we're now facing a very important Delta surge, and we're looking over our shoulder at an oncoming Omicron surge.
ZIENTS: So this is not a moment to panic because we know how to protect people, and we have to tools to do it. But we need to American people to do their part, to protect themselves, their children and their communities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The COVID surge is also forcing strong measures across the world.
Beginning tomorrow, the Netherlands will go into lockdown again. Paris is canceling its New Year's Eve fireworks display as part of a nationwide ban on large gatherings. And London's mayor has declared an emergency.
Let's begin in the U.K. with CNN's Scott McLean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in London where the U.K. just reported the highest number of cases in a single day for the third day running.
It was also a record-setting day Thursday for vaccinations in a single day. More than half the adult population in the U.K. has now had the booster shot.
Omicron is now the dominant strain in Scotland where researchers at a high containment lab found it infects cells much more slowly than previous variants, but they stress what happens in the lab doesn't always translate into the real world.
A new not-yet-peer-reviewed British study found there's no evidence Omicron causes less severe disease but the author says it's still limited.
Either way, the concern is that the sheer volume of infections is bound to cause hospitalizations to rise even with a less severe strain.
AL GOODMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Al Goodman in Madrid. As the Omicron variant spreads rapidly across Europe it's finding fertile ground in France, Germany and here in Spain.
They're among the top-10 countries in the world in terms of the total number of their coronavirus cases according to Johns Hopkins university tracking.
In recent days, in France and Germany, they each have notched up about 50,000 new cases daily. And in Spain, it's been about 17,000 new cases dally.
The new restriction by France on British tourists went into effect this Saturday. Britain has its own big problems with Omicron.
So British travelers going to France will need a compelling reason to be allowed in. And they would need to show a negative COVID test within 24 hours of departure.
And in Ireland, there'll be an 8:00 p.m. curfew for bars and restaurants starting Sunday.
SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Selina Wang in Tokyo. COVID-19 cases are hitting new records in Australia's New South Wales from large super-spreader events at large venues, including a party held in the city last night. And the spread made worse by the Omicron variant.
Meanwhile, South Korea is reporting record numbers of COVID-19 patients in critical condition. Health officials there say that the medical system is at risk of reaching its limit.
New restrictions will only allow four people in private gatherings in the greater Seoul area.
And to New Zealand. It's becoming one of the most-vaccinated countries in the world, with 90 percent of its eligible population fully vaccinated.
The country is set to start a phased reopening of its borders in January after being shut for nearly two years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Thanks to our correspondents around the world for that.
And pending holiday travel and the rapid spread of the Omicron variant have many people worried about another massive pandemic wave.
I spoke earlier with CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, and asked him if you've gotten two shots but no booster and it's been six months how protected are you?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Not that well protected. Not that well protected. So much so, I would say, although six months ago, we would say if you're double vaxxed you are fully vaccinated. That was the definition of fully vaccinated. This administration and the CDC needs the tell the American people --
the president on Tuesday should tell the American people, should tell people, if it's been six months, you're no longer fully vaxxed.
I think the administration should move the window to four months and allow people who are four months out from the second shot to be boosted.
BROWN: That was going to be one of my other questions for you. And if you're unvaxxed, what happens if you get COVID?
REINER: Oh, there's a tsunami coming. This Omicron variant is extraordinarily contagious. It's as contagious as measles, and that's about the most contagious virus we've seen.
This may be the most contagious virus that civilization has faced in our lifetimes.
[20:10:03]
So why would you go into that kind of battle completely unarmed? Our vaccines will protect you, particularly if you are triple vaxxed.
People who are unvaxxed should start the process now. Go ahead and go to your pharmacy and get vaccinated.
BROWN: You talk about this being a tsunami, how this could be the most transmissible virus we have seen in our lifetimes.
I want to share a quote with you from "The Washington Post."
Iahn Gonsehauser, the chief quality and patient safety officer at Ohio State University said, quote, "Just about everyone should be prepared to get infected during this wave even if you've been vaccinated."
Do you agree with that? And if so are we simply wasting energy on certain COVID protocols and restrictions?
REINER: No. I don't think that -- I don't think that's right.
I think just about everybody will be exposed to the virus since it's so ubiquitous now. I do not think that the American public should expect that if you're triple vaxxed, everyone is destined to contract the virus.
Many people will. If you contract the virus and you are well- vaccinated, you should be fine.
But I do not think that we need to just throw our hands up in the air and say, look, we're all going to get it so let's just let it burn through the country.
If we do that, our hospitals will be swamped. If we let this virus go through our communities, our hospitals, which in many parts of the country right now, like Minnesota and Michigan, are really struggling. Not only will they not be able to handle the surge of COVID patients
who need to be admitted, even if -- even if Omicron is less severe than Delta, and we don't know for sure that it is.
Even if it's less severe than Delta, the sheer number of patients that it will still generate for hospitals will overwhelm our hospitals.
And our hospitals will no longer be able to care for the things we do every day, like taking care of heart attacks or taking care of strokes or people with appendicitis.
So we need to protect our health care system. And that's why every American needs to mask up and vax up right now because our health care infrastructure is at stake right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And if you're wondering about holiday get togethers, Dr. Reiner says those looking to gather closely with friends and family should all take COVID tests beforehand so they can celebrate without worry.
Still to come, with Christmas just a week away, people in Michigan are getting hit once again by COVID. We are live.
Plus, medical experts say one of the best ways to slow the spread of COVID is to get a vaccine, like we just heard Dr. Reiner say.
So with everything going on right now, should there be more vaccine mandates? I'm going to ask a Republican congressman and doctor who is against that requirement.
And destructive and deadly tornados. Hurricane-force wind gust. We are seeing severe weather not found in December. I'll ask Bill Nye "The Science Guy" what is going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:15]
BROWN: In Michigan this weekend, COVID hospitalizations are hovering around a new peak.
CNN's Jason Carroll went inside one Michigan hospital to see how they're handling it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISSA MADDOX, COVID UNIT NURSE, BEAUMONT HOSPITAL: It's been a lot of worse lately, but we do what we can.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hours at work for nurses like Lissa Maddox seem never-ending.
MADDOX: I am -- unfortunately, I'm not a super -- a superhero or -- I'm just a nurse. CARROLL: Maddox is a COVID nurse working on 8 North Team. Eighth floor, North Tower at Beaumont Hospital in Dearborn, Michigan. She's worked here since she graduated from nursing school only about a year and a half ago.
Lately, the COVID unit here is seeing more and more patients, all while there are fewer nurses to care for them.
MADDOX: There's been days where I've been like I don't know how much longer I can do this. And I'm brand new, you know, but then at the same time, it's very rewarding what we do.
CARROLL: The new wave of COVID-19 is flooding Michigan's healthcare system., overwhelming doctors and nurses. Admissions to hospitals statewide have risen 43 percent over the past month.
Currently, there are more than 100 people being treated for COVID-19 at Beaumont Hospital. By comparison, in July, hospitalized COVID patients were only in the single digits.
The influx of patients has taxed this hospital so much so the Department of Defense dispatched a Joint Task Force Civil Support Unit to help.
LT. COL. THERESA NOWAK, ARMY NURSE CORPS OFFICER: I mean, the pace is very, very fast. The need is constant.
(CROSSTALK)
CARROLL: Theresa Nowak is a lieutenant colonel based out of Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a breath.
CARROLL: She is part of a mobile team that includes 14 critical care nurses, four doctors, and two respiratory therapists. Now, working at Beaumont.
The team has worked at hospitals in 13 states since August. The situation so critical here, just a few minutes into our interview, staff had to rush in to help a distress patient.
(on camera): Can you tell us what's happening behind us here?
NOWAK: So, if there is a patient that needs acute care, maybe a change in heart rate, a change in respiratory rates, then, generally, as a care comes that have critical care experience, they come in and help, help with care for that patient.
I've been in for almost 17 years, and if you would have asked me five years ago, would I be embedding in a civilian hospital to help provide care, I would have -- I would have been like, no, you've got to be kidding me.
CARROLL (voice-over): What is not surprising to the strike team or to hospital staff, people needing critical care are overwhelmingly unvaccinated.
Beaumont Health says 443 out of the 583 COVID patients it is caring for state-wide are unvaccinated. The vast majority of those in its ICU and on ventilators, also unvaccinated.
(CROSSTALK)
[20:20:12]
CARROLL: Sara Pristavu is a recovering COVID patient. She says her vaccination status is private. She and her father, who also has COVID, were admitted on Sunday.
SARA PRISTAVU, COVID-19 PATIENT: I hope he's OK. He's not too far from me here. I'm not allowed to see him because of the quarantining. It's been a roller coaster.
(COUGHING)
PRISTAVU: Sorry.
It's been -- it's been a roller coaster, but now I feel a lot better.
CARROLL: Pristavu says she needed oxygen when she arrived, but no longer. And she credits those working the COVID unit here, both civilian and military, with helping to save her life.
And as for urgent pleas from those in the medical field for more people to get vaccinated, she says this.
CARROLL (on camera): What do you see as the right thing and the wrong thing?
PRISTAVU: I really like to stay neutral.
CARROLL (voice-over): Nurses like Lissa Maddox know, the stress for the 8 North Team may just be beginning again.
MADDOX: Will I break in three months? Will I break in a year? Will I break in 10? I can't -- I don't have that answer for you. Right now, I'm battling this with my patients, and I don't see a stop anytime soon.
CARROLL (on camera): The doctors and nurses here expressed how grateful they are to have the military team here at Beaumont hospital.
In terms of how long they're going to be at Beaumont, we're told that the military team could be here for a month, possibly longer, depending upon the need.
After that, they will then move on to another hospital where there is more need.
Jason Carroll, CNN Dearborn, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: COVID cases surging, hospitals starting to get overwhelmed. Could vaccine mandates have prevented avoidable suffering and anxiety this winter? I'm going to discuss with a member of the GOP's Doctors Caucus, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:26:33]
BROWN: A legal victory for President Biden on some of his vaccine mandates. An appeals court ruled Friday that the government can enforce its vaccine or testing ruling for businesses with more than 100 employees.
That likely tees up a Supreme Court fight. But a different appeals court rejected a Justice Department request to reinstate the administration's federal contractor mandate.
Tonight, I'm joined by a Republican Congressman Larry Bucshon of Indiana. He's also a physician, a heart surgeon, and is a member of the GOP Doctors Caucus.
Congressman, welcome.
REP. LARRY BUCSHON (R-IN): Well, thanks for having me on. I very much appreciate it.
BROWN: You oppose vaccine mandates, but the circuit court sided with the president when it comes to these large businesses. What is your reaction to the ruling?
BUCSHON: Yes, well, first of all, let me just say I'm a big propone want of getting the vaccine. I've my booster.
And I actively promote everyone out there, all your viewers, to get vaccinated because it's the best way to protect yourself even from the Omicron variant.
So that said, I think ultimately it needs to get to the Supreme Court. I think it's a controversial situation.
You know, with the private sector, I'm against the federal government mandating the private sector to do medical procedures like this.
But I still think everybody should get vaccinated. I think ultimately it just needs to go to the Supreme Court, and they need to decide.
BROWN: Well, certainly looks to be headed that way.
I want to just pull this quote from part of the ruling.
It said, "OSHA has demonstrated the pervasive danger that COVID-19 poses to workers, unvaccinated workers, in particular, in their workplaces.
So I'm curious, as someone with a medical background, what do you say to that argument from this circuit court opinion about why the Biden administration vaccine or test mandate should stand?
BUCSHON: Well, that's the crux of the legal argument, really. Does OSHA have the authority under their rules to impose this on the private sector based on an imminent threat to employees?
And that's basically the legal argument. It's really what it is, a legal argument whether they have the ability to propose this or not.
I think they probably do not, but, you know, that's going to be the up to the Supreme Court.
Again, I want to make it clear everyone should get vaccinated. It's the best way to protect yourself. And I would hope people would voluntarily get vaccinated.
The mandates are not going to make people get vaccinated. I can tell you -- (INAUDIBLE) -- and that's a problem.
BROWN: Right now, 73 million Americans eligible for a shot have not gotten one. Less than two-thirds of Americans are fully vaccinated.
And there are those who say, actually, a mandate would get some of those 73 million who still haven't gotten vaccinated to get vaccinated. What do you say to those numbers?
BUCSHON: Well, I think, first of all, there will be some people who get vaccinated based on the mandate, no doubt. But I'm just saying it will be in relatively low numbers.
I talked to the people in Indiana about that. And, you know, people are just not going to do it because the federal government says so.
I think that's -- it's unfortunate that people won't get voluntarily vaccinated. I do the best I can on my social media to get the facts to everyone.
[20:29:57]
And the recent data shows, almost everybody in the ICU, everybody on ventilators are unvaccinated people. And the ones that have had vaccinations have substantial other health-related issues that are making the situation worse.
[20:30:00]
I just don't think that the federal government should be mandating a medical procedure. And fundamentally, I disagree with that. But again, I promote vaccination, I want to make that very clear.
BROWN: Yes. And I think that is just so important to emphasize that you do promote vaccination. I've watched many of your interviews, you have consistently promoted vaccinations. But I also want to just circle back on, you know -- and I understand your position as a Republican not wanting the federal government to mandate this.
But it's also -- it's not like, you know, either you get vaccinated or you lose your job. It's also -- it provides the opportunity for people to get tested, if they don't want to get vaccinated. So, why is that not a good alternative for you? And someone who is a proponent of these vaccines, you've been, you know, triple vaxxed yourself. Why isn't that OK?
BUCSHON: Well, I'm not saying that, you know, that a testing protocol like that, if people choose not to get vaccinated isn't helpful, but honestly, people can get tested one day and have an exposure and a couple of days later not be tested until the following week, but a couple days later, they're actually positive.
So, it's really not a replacement for vaccination. So, I just don't think the whole situation with a mandate and then a testing scheme like that is going to be effective in decreasing the number of COVID cases because people just don't want to get the vaccine.
And it's -- I don't know why, I wish people would. But there's been so much misinformation, honestly, by both political parties and across our social media about the vaccine. People are just legitimately afraid to get the vaccine. And I just don't think the federal government mandates is going to help very much. It's probably just going to cause more trouble than it helps.
BROWN: But when it comes to misinformation about the vaccine, you're seeing that heavily in the right wing media in particular. I do want to play something for you from Tucker Carlson, what he said on Fox News this week. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, COVID has killed a lot of people, so has prostate cancer. Imagine telling people about your prostate every day for the next two years. People will know that you are a narcissist, no one would sit next to you at dinner. You would be boorish. And that's exactly what COVID talk sounds to be well adjusted among us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, I'm just curious what you think about that. Do you think comments like that are why Republicans and independents are so hesitant to get the vaccine? I mean, you can't put it all on one person, right? But a lot of people watch Tucker Carlson. And a lot of those people, you know, aren't vaccinated, what do you -- what do you think?
BUCSHON: Yes. Well, I'm not going to comment on any specific media sources, you know, whether that's on CNN, or Fox, or wherever, but I can just say that there is a lot of misinformation out there. I think it's primarily social media, when I talk to people. You do see some information on TV that I would think is not accurate, and I would say is not accurate information.
But you also have to realize, there were people who were against vaccinations for particularly libertarian-leaning people, and they were against vaccinations before the COVID vaccine. So, it's a longstanding issue for many people.
But I think the biggest issue here is that the federal government mandating it. And people right now have a very, very low confidence level in our government, which I think is really unfortunate. And we need to try to reverse that.
BROWN: When you say there's low confidence level in the government, are you pinning this on the Biden administration in particular, are you also with the Trump administration, and even before that, just an overall distrust of the government?
BUCSHON: I would say overall, I'm not pinning it on either political party, either -- or either administration. You know, the confidence in the Congress, for example, the House of Representatives, which I'm a member, is extremely low overall, primarily because we're at a stalemate. You know, we can't seem to talk to each other across the political aisle and do some of the things we need to do for the American people. And there's a high level of frustration with that.
So, I would say it's overall the government in general, not this administration or the last particularly, but government, in general, because we're kind of at a stalemate. And, honestly, we have people on both sides of the aisle, talking about things they don't understand very well, which is COVID and putting out information that's not accurate. And so that's the problem.
BROWN: Right. And I just want to ask you, just because I'm sure people wonder, right? You're now a doctor -- or you were a doctor, I guess you still are a doctor, technically, but now you're a member of Congress. If you are not an elected official and still a practicing physician, would you still have this viewpoint, the stand against the vaccine mandates? And when you talk to people in Indiana in your home state who don't want to get vaccinated, what is that -- what are those conversations like?
[20:35:08]
BUCSHON: Yes. I don't think my viewpoint was any different, you know, when I was a practicing physician, whether it's COVID, or other things that the federal government would mandate. I don't think my position really has changed.
When I talk to people who don't want to get the vaccine, they just have a legitimate concerns about the safety profile of the vaccine, even though I've tried to convince people that, yes, there are isolated cases of vaccine reaction reactions. But statistically, the risk of the vaccine is very, very low. And the efficacy, whether or not it's effective, you know, some of the breakthrough cases people say, see, you can still get it. Well, that is true, but you don't get hospitalized, and you don't get really, really sick. So both of those things. People just don't think it's necessarily going to work for them. And they still are afraid of the safety profile of the vaccine. And it's hard to convince people otherwise, honestly.
BROWN: Yes. Especially with all this misinformation that's floating around out there, online and elsewhere, as we pointed out. Thank you so much, Congressman Bucshon for this conversation and for your time tonight to talk about this really important issue.
BUCSHON: You're welcome and thank you. I enjoyed the conversation. I hope that, you know, again, people get vaccinated is the best way to protect yourself against the coronavirus.
BROWN: Thank you so much. We do appreciate it and we hope you'll come back on the show.
BUCSHON: You're welcome. Thank you.
BROWN: Well, there are new developments in the global climate crisis. Next, I'll ask guest Bill Nye the Science Guy about something called the Doomsday Glacier.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:22]
BROWN: A December unlike any other record heat is fueling weather related disasters at an unprecedented rate. Earlier this week on seasonably warm weather brought Minnesota the first December tornado and its history. That was just one of many tornadoes to rip through the central U.S. December is typically a modest month for tornadoes. On average, only 23 nationwide. But in 2021, 116 have been reported this month already.
This isn't just a U.S. problem, it's a global one. A super typhoon has devastated the Philippines this week, leaving dozens of people dead. Experts agree that warming temperatures are making typhoons, hurricanes, and cyclones more intense and destructive.
The common thread among these disasters is the human factor. Are we taking the proper steps to curb climate change? No. That's the answer. In fact, the world is poised to burn a record amount of coal next year, undermining efforts to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
I want to bring in science educator, Bill Nye. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. So, Bill, we are seeing the results of human caused global warming in our own backyards. But some of the most alarming changes are in Antarctica. A critical ice shelf safeguarding the, quote, Doomsday Glacier is at risk of falling. It's the size of Florida. So what happens to sea levels if the Doomsday Glacier falls into the ocean?
BILL NYE, AMERICAN ENGINEER: Well, it's estimated the ocean will rise about a half a meter, 20 inches, 19 inches, which you say, well, I've been around 19 inches of snow or something like that, but this would be catastrophic. A place like Florida would be -- southern Florida would be underwater.
And the problem with that is people will leave. Where are they going to go? What are they going to do when they leave? It won't happen instantly, but it'll happen fast enough. And this gets back to the old problem that we've been talking about for 30 years, where scientific concerns have not been heated by governments by people around the world, because generally, the fossil fuel industry has been very successful at introducing this idea, that scientific uncertainty, we are -- when will the glacier fall? Tomorrow, 10 years from now, that's too uncertain.
The scientific uncertainty is somehow the same as doubt about the whole thing. And this is leading to catastrophes big enough or I think people are noticing them.
BROWN: Right. So, I mean, on that note, it can take decades, as we know, to see, for example, the fallout from rising sea levels. So, how do you convince people that now is the time to act when it's so hard to visualize?
NYE: Well, I don't think it's that hard to visualize right now. The tornadoes that are -- the very large tornado that swept through Kentucky set all kinds of records. It was on the ground for two and a half hours, went over 200 statute miles, tore up everything in December.
So, I think people will now be able to see that these predictions that scientists have been making -- climate scientists have been making for decades, 30 years since 1988, anyway, when James Hansen testified in front of U.S. Congress about this. People are seeing it in their own front and backyards. So maybe now, this could be the -- a good thing that comes out of these disasters as we will take it seriously.
[20:45:02]
And as you point out, the plan is to burn more coal next year than we did this year. And I say we humankind, because coal is everywhere. It's just everywhere. We'll never run out of coal. But we can't do that anymore. We got to stop. We got to do things new, better way.
BROWN: This week, NOAA released its white Christmas probabilities. And unsurprisingly, most of the country's White Christmas odds have decreased. Are we looking at a future where snow on Christmas is a rarity in any part of the country?
NYE: I'm not an expert on that. But probably, because the world's got -- on that detail rather -- because that's what they are, oh, boy, the other side's going to go wild over that sense. But that detail is hard to predict, because in a place like Buffalo, New York, where when the Great Lakes get a little warmer, there's more evaporation. And so there actually is very common for there to be a lot of snow with a lot of moisture in the air lead to a lot of snow in that one area.
But then in the Mountain West, where there's a drought, we have ski areas where there's no net or not enough natural snow for people to ski same in Europe. So the world's climate is changing. And as people have predicted for decades, it's changing extraordinarily fast.
Just recently, we had another climate conference in Glasgow, in Scotland. And once again, the language gets watered down. I guess that's upon gets softened, gets dampen, gets made less strong. It gets weakened, every time. Every time people go to these conferences, the language gets weakened, because the effects are just hard to imagine. But now -- but this glacier, this Doomsday Glacier and these tornadoes, maybe we'll get on it.
BROWN: Very quickly, your show made you the face of science in elementary school, classrooms across the country. Do you think your show would be possible if it was going on air today? And I asked that because so many other, for example, Sesame Street and so forth, they have been now called propagandists. What do you think?
NYE: Well, so we lived in -- I mean, I came of age, I entered television as a young -- as a young guy who could work a lot of hours at an extraordinary time where there was this -- you know, the U.S. government actually had a surplus. And people embraced the idea of World War Two veterans were still around, and in a lot -- in large numbers.
And it was this idea, let's use public television for the good. And, you know, your previous guest senator was talking about congressman -- just talking about how people mistrust the government. Well, you know, the public broadcasting is government supported. And this idea that it's us versus them that it's the mainstream media versus these other organizations.
You may be right, it may have been very difficult to get the Science Guy Show on at that time. But the reason we made the show at that time is because I was very concerned about the future of the U.S. back in the 1990s. I was concerned that the United States had not embraced the metric system. It was not going to be competitive globally. And sure enough, globalization has led to a loss of all these jobs.
And so everybody may be, during this -- with the -- this crisis in Kentucky, in the Ohio River Valley, and so on. Maybe we'll realize the value of government. You interviewed -- you had an interview of a guy who was praising the support he was getting from government agencies who are providing food and shelter for these last few miserable days.
Maybe we can use this as an opportunity to get people to understand the role of government again. You know, this is a -- this is a time where we really we really can work together. And, you know, we've been saying this about climate change for decades that this would be -- we're all in this together. There's nobody on earth because it's not on the earth.
BROWN: (INAUDIBLE) to care about.
NYE: We are not passengers on the Earth -- we are not passengers on the Earth. We are crew mates.
BROWN: All right.
NYE: We're all in the Earth's crew.
BROWN: Bill Nye the Science Guy, thank you so much. Appreciate you coming over.
NYE: Have a good holiday to you all. Be safe. BROWN: You too. We'll be right back.
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[20:50:03]
BROWN: States across the country are repurposing the Texas abortion law to empower citizens to sue each other over issues they don't like. On Thursday, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis became the latest governor, Republican governor to join the trend, allowing parents to sue schools that teach critical race theory.
And in California, Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom is designing his version to crackdown on gun rights. He wants citizens to sue those who make or sell assault weapons.
Joining me now is CNN legal analyst, Elie Honig. Hi, Ellie. So do you think these kinds of vigilante type laws are the new normal?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think we could be headed that way, Pam, and I think it's a dangerous thing. Whether you're right or left, liberal or conservative, this is a real Pandora's box that we're seeing where states are now feeling like they're free to defy established constitutional precedent.
Texas did it with the abortion law. The Supreme Court, to its detriment, allowed it to stand. And now we see other states, liberal and conservative states, Democratic and Republican governors saying, fine, if that's the way it goes, we can pass state laws here to do essentially whatever we want, regardless of what the Supreme Court has already said.
[20:55:13]
BROWN: And I want to read you a quote from Justice Sotomayor and her dissent to the Texas law saying, in effect, "The Texas Legislature has deputized the state citizens as bounty hunters, offering them cash prizes for civilly prosecuting their neighbors."
So, I mean, all that raises the question, depending on how the Supreme Court acts with this Texas law, ultimately. Is this where the country is heading?
HONIG: So, the Supreme Court's really the only ones who can stop that, and Justice Sotomayor also went even further in one of her dissents. She said explicitly, she said, this is what we fought the civil war over. Now, the majority, the conservative majority said that that's a little much, but Justice Sotomayor said, when you really get down to it, this is about states' rights versus sort of the federal rights.
And when the Supreme Court finds that we have a constitutional right, whether it's the right to privacy and abortion, whether it's the right to equal protection for LGBTQ people, whether it's the second amendment rights, whether its rights to religious freedom, that has to be binding on the whole country. And as Justice Sotomayor argued, Justice -- Chief Justice Roberts noticed the same thing. We can't create a constitutional free for all here.
BROWN: All right. Elie Honig, thank you as always.
And thank you for joining me this evening. I'm Pamela Brown. See you again tomorrow night starting at 6:00 Eastern. CNN's Original Series, The Eighties is next.
And a quick programming note, doctor -- join Dr. Sanjay Gupta for a look at how some parents of kids with autism are finding hope in cannabis and how that hope can come with great risk. This new CNN special report "Weed 6: Marijuana and Autism" begins tomorrow night at 8:00.
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