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New York Sets Record for New Covid Cases; Moderna's Effectiveness against Omicron; Dr. Saju Mathew is Interviewed about Covid; Israel Adds to No-Fly List; Manchin Says He's Not Voting for Build Back Better. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead, omicron cases rising as we're getting new information about just how important those boosters are in terms of protection.

CNN's coverage continues right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

And we're going to do our best to give you the good news and the bad news.

Happening right now, health experts are warning the country could be in for a grim beginning to the new year because Covid cases are on the rise. The U.S. is averaging now 130,000 new infections per day, that is up from 70,000 at the beginning of November, nearly doubling the rate. The omicron variant not driving that yet. But Dr. Anthony Fauci says it will be the dominant strain here in the U.S. soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: This virus is extraordinary. It has a doubling time of anywhere from two to three days. Right now, in certain regions of the country, 50 percent of the isolates are omicron, which means it's going to take over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So, here's some of the good news.

So far data shows that cases of omicron may be less severe, especially, and this is important, for those who are vaccinated and boosted. Right, get those three shots. But hospitals are already stressed.

In Ohio, more than 1,000 members of the National Guard have been dispatched to help nurses and doctors deliver care. The demand for Covid tests is spiking as well with hours-long lines at some sites. The latest surge in infections has been canceling some sporting

events, live shows, holiday parties, but other things are going on. And the TSA says that air travel is up by nearly double from a year ago.

New York state, the original epicenter, you'll remember, of this virus back in 2020 is reporting a third straight day of record cases. That is they haven't seen anything this high throughout the pandemic. But, so far, New York City's Time's Square party still a go for New Year's Eve.

CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll is following all of this from New York. CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen also gathering new information on all this data coming in.

But, Jason, let's begin with you.

New York is an interesting case here, right? We remember the scenes early in the pandemic and a lot of the scenes we're seeing now reminiscent of that. Tell us what you're finding.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And as you can imagine, and we can see why, there are a lot of grave concerns here in New York City. Health officials keeping a very close eye on those Covid numbers, which, as you know, Jim, continue to go up. I mean if you look at what's happening in New York City, look at the numbers here, Covid cases more than doubled compared to last week. Most of the cases, when you look at the hospital charts, you look at all the medical information that's coming in, most of the cases coming from those who are unvaccinated.

However, despite the rise in cases, medical officials also say that they're not seeing a rise -- a substantial rise in the number of hospitalizations or deaths.

Meanwhile, people across the city have been going out, trying to get tested ahead of the holidays, waiting hours in line trying to get tested. Some of those going into drugstores trying to get those at- home kits, finding that they've been sold out, unable to get them.

This morning, New York City's health commissioner spoke to CNN, weighed in on this issue and talked about what the city is trying to do to meet that need.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DAVE CHOKSHI, NYC HEALTH COMMISSIONER: We did see unprecedented demand over the last few days. We've ramped up testing. We're doing more testing per capita than just about any other place in the world. And we're going to continue to ramp it up to be able to meet it.

For example, we're adding additional testing sites throughout this week. We have a total of 89 across the five boroughs of the city just in terms of city sites. And we're also distributing half a million rapid test kits through community-based organizations. We'll keep building upon that to meet the demand in the coming days. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: OK, so right now a lot of eyes are on Times Square. New York's mayor, Bill de Blasio, says, as for now, things are a go in terms of the ball drop, but he is going to weigh in on his final decision, that will happen sometime before Christmas.

But, again, for now, it's a go. Organizers are telling everyone who's going to be out here that you must be vaccinated, show proof of ID. They are not requiring that people be masked at this point, but they are strongly encouraging it.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: So many decisions like that for communities around the country coming up.

OK, Elizabeth, so Jason highlighted the data there. It remains a case where it's largely the unvaccinated who are getting severely sick from this. And that's with delta, which still dominates here.

[09:05:02]

Omicron is coming. Moderna has new data on how their booster shot protects against it. What are you learning?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: So, what we've learned from Moderna is that their booster that's out there, it does increase antibodies but it's unclear how effective those antibodies will be at protecting you against omicron. So let's take a look at what Moderna put out this morning.

The booster that's out there now, the one that, you know, anybody can go out to a pharmacy or wherever to get it, is 50 micrograms. And it boosted antibodies in lab tests that they did. However, a 100 microgram booster did better. It got the antibodies up higher. And the effectiveness of either dose against omicron is unclear -- unclear how effective it is and unclear how, if it is effective, how durable that efficacy would be.

Now, I want to give a bottom line here, which is that the booster did increase antibodies, so get a booster if you're more than six months out from your second shot. Even if it doesn't boost as much as we would like, it still boosts antibodies higher than if you didn't have a booster. So, get vaccinated. That's the most important thing. Get those first two shots. And certainly get a booster when it comes your time.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Consistent advice from the doctors on those vaccines and boosters.

Elizabeth Cohen, Jason Carroll, thanks so much to both of you.

So, to dig deeper, let's speak to a doctor, Dr. Saju Mathew. He's public health specialist and primary care physician.

Good morning, Doctor. Thanks for taking the time this morning.

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST AND PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Good morning, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first, I'm going to ask you to speak to the audience like they're your patients here to some degree. Folks are having questions. They're saying, wait a second, I'm vaccinated. I may even have been boosted but I'm starting to hear of cases, breakthrough cases, infections with people who are vaccinated and boosted.

Tell us your advice. How should folks receive that information?

MATHEW: Yes. Yes, absolutely, Jim. I think I answer that question multiple times a day.

So here's the -- here's the bottom line. I know people are tired and sick of hearing this, but, if you are unvaccinated, you are open to a lot of negative consequences from Covid, not only long Covid but severe illness, death and being in the ICU for weeks. If you're vaccinated and you are boosted, even if you get a breakthrough infection, Jim, most of these infections are mild.

I spoke to four patients over the weekend of different ages, all of them with breakthrough infections and boosted. They are recovering at home. Now, people will listen to this and say, well, but they're still getting infected. Infection, Jim, is very different from disease. So if you wear that vest, as I've said multiple times, your chance of really surviving and not developing consequences from Covid, even with omicron, is significantly high.

SCIUTTO: And we see it in the data. Jason Carroll had it in his piece. You know, the spike among hospitalizations largely among the unvaccinated.

OK, I want to ask you about what we're seeing now. It's in the data in terms of new infections but also I'm sure anecdotally. A lot of folks listening, you, me, we have friends, extended family who are now testing positive. That is largely still delta, right, that's happening in this country, so -- so what does that mean when omicron, which we know is even, you know, far more transmissible, when it hits here with full force?

MATHEW: Right. Can you imagine two strong, dominant variants existing, coexisting at the same time? Now typically what happens with a viruses is, one tries to out dominate or, if you will, kind of shift the other variant to the side. Initially my thinking, Jim, was that because we were pretty certain initially that the South African data was showing that the cases are mild, I have to confess that I didn't think that the omicron variant could be as dominant. But now we know that it is at least four times more contagious than delta. And listen to this, Jim, the fact that it's doubling every two days. If you're at 100,000 cases by Christmas, a week later, by New Year's Eve, we could be over 400,000 daily cases of just omicron. And even if we find out that the cases are mild, it's a numbers game. If you take a small percentage of those people that get hospitalized and maybe even go into the ICU and die, it's still a significant number.

SCIUTTO: Understood. OK, I -- for folks who watch this show frequently, they know I always like to try to take the good with the bad.

In South Africa, we're already seeing cases having topped off and starting to come down. In other words, that it burned through pretty quickly there. I wonder, do you see a silver lining in that, in that it comes so quickly, it comes to dominate quickly this variant, but also burns out more quickly. Does that make sense?

MATHEW: It makes complete sense.

[09:10:01]

And, yes, if there is a silver lining and a blessing in all of this is, typically a wave that hits us very quickly, that cases go up in a very steep manner, but on the other side, they also come down rapidly. Now, good and bad, Jim, with that. The good is the fact that, yes, if we can just kind of brace the storm, we can get back on the other side fairly quickly. And I'm thinking that by third week of January, our cases should go down.

But here's the bad side. Hospitals still have to absorb the surge, Jim. We're going to have Covid patients and non-Covid patients showing up at the same time requiring immediate care. And that is my biggest concern. Seventy percent of health care workers are depressed, are anxious.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MATHEW: Can we survive another winter surge? That's my biggest concern.

SCIUTTO: We're going to have a doctor on later in this show in one of those overwhelmed health care facilities already.

Dr. Saju Mathew, thanks so much for helping walking us all through it.

MATHEW: Thanks, Jim, and Merry Christmas.

SCIUTTO: Merry Christmas as well.

Well, Israel, a country that has often been at the forefront of fighting this pandemic is adding the U.S., Canada and eight other countries to a no fly list as it takes steps to head off the spread of the omicron variant.

Journalist Elliott Gotkine joins us now live from Jerusalem.

Elliott, so what does this mean for the hundreds of thousands, as you know, dual citizens here in the U.S., duel Israeli-U.S. citizens?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Jim, they can still come to Israel. It just means that they -- when they present their Israeli passport, after that, they're going to have to go into seven days of quarantine. The first of those days will be at a designated quarantine hotel. And then, after they've signed an agreement promising to have their movements tracked, they can then go to whichever address they're staying at for the remainder of their isolation period. So they can still come to Israel. It just means that they're going to have to -- have to self-isolate.

And the reason Israel is adding the U.S. and all these other countries to its ever-expanding red list is because it wants to kind of cut off the main source of omicron in the country, which has been people returning to Israel from overseas. In fact, the majority of the 175 identified cases of omicron in Israel so far have been traced to people who have come back to Israel from overseas, and that goes also for the 380 suspected omicron cases so far.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Understood, Elliott. Thanks so much. We'll be staying in touch.

Still ahead this hour, I'm going to speak with the CEO of a Michigan hospital system who says its admissions are higher than at any other time in the pandemic. Imagine that. Now that is, of course, impacting staff, as well as patients who need care for non-Covid issues.

Plus, it is officially a no. Senator Manchin single-handedly sinks the Build Back Better plan today as fellow Democrats are saying they're going to make him go on the record with that no vote.

And this hour, closing arguments begin in the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell, the woman accused of helping Jeffrey Epstein abuse underaged girls. A preview of what to expect today.

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[09:16:37]

SCIUTTO: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer says that the Build Back Better Act will get a floor vote early next week, but the hallmark piece of legislation, packed with Democratic priorities, has little to no chance of passing at the moment. Senator Joe Manchin announced he cannot support, he'll vote no on the nearly $2 trillion social spending bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation. I just can't. I've tried everything humanly possible. I can't get there.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You're done. This is -- this is a no?

MANCHIN: This is a no on this legislation. I have tried everything I know to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That moment, on Sunday morning television, a surprise to the White House and the Democratic leadership.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins me now from Capitol Hill.

All right, Lauren, we've talked about this for years, it seems. What is the -- what is the path forward? Is there a path forward?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, Chuck Schumer, the majority leader, saying the path forward is they're going to have to vote. He made it very clear in his statement released this morning that members can't just say where they stand on television, they have to show the American public where they stand on the Senate floor. So that's exactly what lawmakers will do sometime in January when they return for the new year.

Now, there's a question mark of whether or not there's any pieces here that could be picked up and reassembled that Senator Manchin would support. I think right now there is some bad faith in the negotiations between the White House and Joe Manchin. And the White House made it very clear yesterday that they feel like the senator went back on his word in that blistering statement that we know was approved by the president himself.

Now, part of the issue here was the way that this was announced, right? Senator Joe Manchin going on Fox News on Sunday morning making this news and having his staff alert White House staff just about 30 minutes ahead of time. Given the fact that Manchin has had such a close relationship with the president, given the fact he's probably gotten more face time with the president of the United States than anyone else in the Democratic caucus, that was a major blow for President Biden.

So, right now, the question mark, what will his colleagues do? You heard earlier John Yarmuth, who is the chairman of the House Budget Committee, someone who wrote this legislation, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN YARMUTH (D-KY): I wish he would just tell us what he wants, what he would be satisfied with. We've never gotten that answer from him. And, meanwhile, 222 Democrats in the House and 49 Democrats in the Senate have been working in good faith for six months or longer trying to get this very important piece of legislation done. I think a bit of arrogance on the part of Senator Manchin, who thinks that he should have total say as to what gets passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And one striking piece of this entire thing is the fact it's not just progressives who are frustrated with Senator Manchin. It's also some moderates. You know, I saw yesterday a statement on Twitter by Representative Abigail Spanberger, she's a front-liner, a Democrat, who's a moderate, who was deeply frustrated with Manchin's position. There is a feeling that a lot of front-liners in the House already took this vote and they want to see some kind of legislative action come from that. They don't want to have walked a plank for no good reason. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, there was a lot of plank walking in the lead-up to this and it looks like folks are falling off now.

[09:20:05]

Lauren Fox, on The Hill, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss what happens now, CNN's senior political analyst David Gergen, also served as an adviser to just four president, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton.

David, good to have you on this morning.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks, Jim, it's good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: YOU know, the White House, the Democrats, between a rock and a hard place here, right, because they have the slimmest of majorities. It's 50/50 in the Senate.

GERGEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: Nothing gets past Joe Manchin here, or, by the way, other senators who have raised objections or questions, including Kyrsten Sinema.

Do you think it's dangerous -- and if you were advising Joe Biden now, do you think it's dangerous to make an enemy of Joe Manchin, right, because you -- whether you want to get pieces of BBB through or say your judges, you still need that vote.

GERGEN: Yes, absolutely. And I think that the -- it's time for the White House to take one or two days for the so-called scorched earth response, you know, and attacking him at every -- from every level. But, ultimately, they do need it. And what -- I -- I think what will be in the president's best interest is, take your shots now for a couple of days and then let this thing quiet down over the -- over the holidays and then come back and figure out, OK, can we break this into pieces?

You know, there are reports that there is as many as 14 different pieces you could -- you could bring together and see if you can't get them passed. For example, the child tax policy, if you get that, I think you've got a good shot at that. You -- you've got something on education, on preschool. But, very importantly, on climate, because, as you know, Jim, this is not just weakening the president's hand here at home. This blow below the water line is actually hurting the president overseas as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: You know, at Stockholm we pledged all sorts of things on climate, but it was based on getting this bill passed. SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, it's a great point. It's a great point. Because the

-- you know, what's -- what does the U.S. word mean, right, on these kind of international commitments.

GERGEN: Yes, (INAUDIBLE). Yes.

SCIUTTO: So, you start breaking it up say, and that seems like the only option.

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And perhaps you start with the child tax credit, right, because that's going to expire very soon here.

GERGEN: Yes. Right.

SCIUTTO: They (ph) play devil's advocate for a moment. People like the public polling shows pieces of BBB. They like controlling prescription drug prices. They like expanding Medicare benefits. They like universal pre-k. But they associated the massive plan with something being really big and expensive.

Could there be political advantage to passing smaller bills?

GERGEN: Yes, I think so. At least you would get focus. Right now this is a massive bill and it's hard to set up a message for something this massive with this many pieces. And I think if you had two or three key things that are your top priority in say one from each one of these areas, then I think that you can take that to the public and really put pressure on Manchin and put pressure on the Congress to go ahead and pass these things. And it would -- it would allow them to go into the midterm, allow the Democrats to go into the midterms with something to show for all their effort.

Right now, you know, they -- they're going to pay a huge price because they're in charge and yet they're yet running the show. If people -- you know, I think they took a huge gamble in the White House to do this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: The president basically put most of his chips on the table in this one play. And to have that now go south for him, you know, has hurt him badly in terms of his public reputation. You know, he's no Lyndon Johnson. He's no Franklin Roosevelt that we've now learned. But he can be Joe Biden. He can be Joe Biden who's doing important things for the country that he can talk about and other Democrats can talk about heading into the midterms.

SCIUTTO: That was going to be my next question, what is the damage to Joe Biden's leadership here, right, because he made -- I mean he made commitments to both wings of the party, right, trust me on this, you know, I'll get this through.

GERGEN: Yes. Yes. Yes. SCIUTTO: So let's say you're advising Joe Biden. What do you tell him to do? You say cool off for the holidays, come back Jan. 1 and do what?

GERGEN: Cool off, reach out quietly on the phone to various people, start rebuilding pathways to Manchin and to others.

You know, there are reports, Jim, that there are other senators who would just as soon not vote on this, that they'd just as soon not be held responsible in their back home for voting yes on this bill. I don't think that they're -- it's not just Joe Manchin that's involved here. There are a number of other players.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: So I would think that the president's best bet is to -- is to -- is quiet his folks down, regroup over the holidays, let the good cheer and the goodwill of Christmas and the holidays, you know, change the environment, and then come back at a time in the New Year with fresh hope and a fresh way to do this.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's like a -- it's like a good old family argument, right, let it cool off and come back in the new year.

GERGEN: Absolutely. Yes.

SCIUTTO: David Gergen, thanks so much.

GERGEN: Thanks so much, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, Senator Manchin's rejection of the Build Back Better Act has prompted Goldman Sachs to now cut its forecast for U.S. economic growth in 2022.

[09:25:07]

Here with me now, CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

Christine, this is -- this is the other side of this, right, because you had Republicans, and frankly many Americans worried Build Back Better would add a lot of money to the economy and therefore increase inflation. But you have this other side effect here, Goldman Sachs acknowledging saying, well, you know what, there's an economic growth cost.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely.

I mean you look at what those investments were, specifically that child tax credit, that is the biggest near term uncertainty here. That's money that's going into family's pockets right now that will not be there in January, which means that's money out of the economy, right?

So, you look at some of these pieces, lowering drug costs for people, capping how much they have to pay for day care, right, or for child care, and free universal pre-k, these were investments in working families that economists thought would juice the economy into the new year and now it looks like that's not going to happen.

So many of these investments now, maybe they're dead in the water. We don't know what's going to happen next here. But it means GDP for the first quarter could to be more like 2 percent, down from 3 percent. And 3 percent in the second quarter and 2.75 in the third quarter. That's what Goldman is saying, trimming all of those -- all of those forecasts.

And also Goldman is making a point that if it is what Manchin is -- Senator Manchin is concerned about is inflation. In the near term there's really no relief on that front, you know, to give him some relief in his mind for about passing some of these things.

I will say something interesting about the child tax credit, because I think that is really first and foremost here as an economic driver.

Ninety-three percent of the children in West Virginia received that enhanced child tax credit. So, Joe Manchin, this weekend, saying he didn't know how to explain all of this to the people in West Virginia. The people in West Virginia many, many families, most families will have less money, right, they will have less money at the beginning of the year because this is not going to be tucked into that Build Back Better and passed.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And the administration had estimated that that tax credit cut child poverty by 50 percent. You know, immediate real world impacts.

ROMANS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Christine Romans, thanks so much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

SCIUTTO: Well, stock futures are responding, not surprisingly, to the Build Back Better news. Not positive at all. Look at those numbers there. Just minutes now from the opening bell on Wall Street. All three indices are down, wow, especially the Dow. Investors are concerned as well that new shutdowns, precautions tied to the omicron variant will have a negative impact on the economy.

Moderna stock is expected to get a bump today, though, as new data shows its booster dose does increase Covid antibodies.

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