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Moderna Data Shows Booster Increases COVID-19 Antibodies; New Year's Eve Party in Times Square Still on for Now; Americans Less Willing to Take Precautions as Pandemic Drags On; Omicron Variant May Push Already Strained Hospitals to the Brink; Senator Joe Manchin Says He Won't Vote for Build Back Better Act; Interview with Representative Dean Phillips (D-MN) about Future of the Build Back Better Act. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:01]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Monday morning to you. Right now some new COVID precautions back in place in some cities as the country sees a major spike in new infections. The U.S. is now averaging 130,000 new cases per day. That's up from just 70,000 at the beginning of November. Almost doubling.

It is important to note the Omicron variant is not yet driving the surge here. This is still largely Delta. Data shows that cases of Omicron, and this is the good news, may be less severe especially, and this important, for those who are vaccinated and boosted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, SURGEON GENERAL: We are going to see a spike in cases and that's because Omicron is incredibly transmissible, and, you know, we have to be prepared for that. But there will be a stark difference between experience of those who are vaccinated and boosted versus those who are unvaccinated.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Nonetheless, the arrival of the Omicron variant in this country has sparked some cancellations. Stanford and Harvard, they're the latest universities to announce online learning starting in January. The National Hockey League has halted cross-border games between the U.S. and Canada this week. And this afternoon, President Biden will meet with his COVID-19 advisers in the Oval Office. He is expected to address the nation tomorrow on exactly how the administration is going to respond to this new surge.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard, also CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll are following the developments this morning.

Jacqueline, let's begin with you. We always try to take the good with the bad here. The data has been clear throughout, this remains largely a pandemic for the unvaccinated. We have some good news on Moderna and its booster shots. Tell us what we're learning. JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. We do

have some good news from Moderna this morning. Preliminary data suggests that the booster helps increase antibody levels against Omicron. So here's what Moderna announced just this morning. Moderna says that the current one booster dose, at 50 micrograms, can boost antibody levels 37-fold compared when you just get two doses.

So the current booster, 50 micrograms, can boost anti-body levels to 37-fold. But a larger dose at 100 micrograms can boost antibody levels even more, by 83-fold. So that's what Moderna says right now. Data suggests that the booster does increase antibody levels, a larger dose can increase even more. But what does that mean about the level of effectiveness? That's what we still need more data on, that's what we still need to hear from Moderna as far as what does this increase in antibody levels really mean?

And we heard from Moderna's president just this morning during a conference call. Here's what the president said during that call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN HOGE, PRESIDENT, MODERNA: Moderna will focus its immediate efforts around Omicron on advancing the prototype vaccine MRNA-1273. We're going to continue to advance an Omicron-specific booster into clinical trials in early 2022.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: So you heard there that they are working on an Omicron- specific variant that could enter clinical trials in early 2022. But right now they are focusing on their current booster and what the latest data really means. And we also -- I just confirmed with Moderna, just a few minutes ago, that the company has shared this preliminary data with U.S. regulators.

The company says, quote, "We are sharing the data with regulators as they begin to assess if any changes to the authorized boosters need to be made. The 50-microgram booster is authorized in the U.S. for people 18 and older, and the 100-microgram booster is authorized for people who are severely immunocompromised."

So we'll see what happens next, Jim, if U.S. health regulators do respond to this new data -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Listen, all roads lead to vaccines and boosters.

All right, Jason Carroll, he's in New York City. Cases up significantly. I mean, back to levels really in terms of infections that we saw at the beginning of the pandemic. But interestingly, Jason, we're not seeing across-the-board cancellations as New Year's approaches.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Not yet. And that's certainly good news to a lot of the tourists who we've seen out here who were anticipating New Year's Eve celebrations out here in Times Square. Health officials, though, are looking at the COVID numbers very carefully as they weigh as to whether or not what they're going to be doing out here.

COVID cases in the city have more than doubled compared to last week. Most of the cases, when you look at the hospital data that's been coming in, most of the cases are among those who are unvaccinated. Medical officials also looking at the data say that what they are not seeing is a substantial rise in the number of hospitalizations compared to, say, this time last year. Meanwhile, when you look across the city, Jim, you're seeing long lines, people waiting, trying to get their test results, trying to get tests ahead of the holidays as they try to go out and travel.

[10:05:09]

Some people trying to go into drugstores, trying to get at-home kits, find that they're sold out. And so the city is trying to meet that demand by opening more test sites. They're also going to be distributing 500,000 at-home rapid test kits. So they're going to be doing that as well. But a lot of eyes out here on Times Square trying to figure out what's going to be happening. New York City's health commissioner weighed in on that issue early this morning speaking to CNN giving his assessment of what should happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DAVE CHOKSHI, NYC HEALTH COMMISSIONER: Follow the numbers and what the data and the science tell us. It is outdoors. Everyone is required to be fully vaccinated. You know, people wearing masks, of course, can add another layer of protection. And we'll make the decisions that we need to to help keep people safe.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Well, right now New York City's mayor, Bill de Blasio, says the final decision about whether or not the ball will drop will come sometime before Christmas. But again right now it is a go. Organizers saying that anyone who comes out here will have to show proof of being vaccinated. They're not going to be requiring people to wear masks at this point, but they are strongly encouraging it -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: It's the way New York restaurants have been for some time, right, show that card before you come in.

Jason Carroll, thanks very much.

Well, President Biden will speak tomorrow about the country's ongoing fight against COVID. He is expected to emphasize testing and additional precautions such as masks and social distancing. But I probably don't have to tell you this, pandemic fatigue has set in for many Americans.

Joining us now, CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten.

Harry, anecdotally, I know there's not a lot of appetite to return to early pandemic measures here, what does the scientific data show us?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA CORRESPONDENT: If you look at the polling data, you know, and you ask how many people are concerned right now about the coronavirus pandemic, what it essentially shows you is exactly that. Look at that. Extremely or very concerned about COVID, it's 42 percent now. That's a little bit more than we were a month ago at 38 percent. But compare it to a year ago. It was 62 percent a year ago.

So clearly there's some fatigue setting in, people are less concerned. But also look at social distancing, right. And what do you see there? You see now just 45 percent of Americans say they social distanced in the last week. That's basically the same as it was a month ago when it was 44 percent. A year ago it was 79 percent. So a lot more Americans are going out. More than that, you know, take a look at this.

When it comes to masking, right, we've been saying all along, if you do go out, especially if you're indoors, you should be masking. So in light of Omicron, very likely to wear masks indoors. Look at that. Only 42 percent of Americans say they're very likely. And what's really interesting is the unvaccinated, the ones who might be at the most danger, they are considerably less likely, which is 28 percent. In fact it's the vaccinated who are more likely to wear masks when they go indoors and outside.

SCIUTTO: I mean, it may help if 24 hours the was a jump in infections even before Omicron has become dominant. OK. So is this, I'm hoping, showing more interest in people getting boosters? Because if data is consistent, man, if you're boosted, I mean, that is really good protection.

ENTEN: Yes. You would think that more people would want to go out and get boosted. But, in fact, that's not really what the data is showing. Yes, it is true that more people are boosted now compared to a month ago. But in fact what that polling data is showing that the people who are going out and getting boosted now were the people all along who said they were going to go out and get boosted.

Only at this particular point, only about half of Americans say they're very likely or will, in fact, get boosted. That's significantly less than the folks who are fully vaccinated, that's around 70 percent, and even less than the folks who've gotten one dose, that's around 80 percent at this point.

SCIUTTO: Such a shame, man, because it keeps you out of the hospital.

ENTEN: I know.

SCIUTTO: Keeps you out of the hospital. Yes.

ENTEN: I know. It don't make no sense, but I just report the numbers. I in fact have gotten boosted and I of course am wearing my mask indoors. Folks, wear your mask if you go indoors, you can save lives.

SCIUTTO: Listen to Harry. Thanks very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: My next guest has been part of the team working on projections for the Omicron variant. Laura Ancel Meyers, director of the UT-Austin COVID-19 Modeling Consortium. She joins me now to discuss.

Good to have you on because there's so much guessing going on, right. I mean, you have the scientists guessing, the policymakers, and you have the people at home, right, like making their own guesses as to where this is going to go. But you've crunched the numbers here and you've come up with 18 different scenarios. Describe -- I don't want to say the worst-case scenario, right, because I think that leads us down a path here. But describe where the data is leading you on this.

LAURA ANCEL MEYERS, DIRECTOR, UT-AUSTIN COVID-19 MODELING CONSORTIUM: Yes. So thanks for having me here this morning, Jim. We're trying to take some of the guesswork out of it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MEYERS: We're trying to on a daily basis synthesize all the information we're hearing from around the world, all the data that are becoming available from South Africa, from the U.K., from the United States, and come up with plausible projections as to what might happen.

[10:10:09]

And there are still a lot of uncertainty. We have some very pessimistic scenarios which suggest that we could see a wave that peaks by the end of January that's much higher than the wave that we experienced last winter and January 2021. We could see more than twice as many cases at the peak, possibly even 20 percent more deaths during this peak than we saw last year. But that's a very pessimistic scenario, and things could be much milder than that.

SCIUTTO: So the more optimistic scenario?

MEYERS: The more optimistic scenario, all the scenarios, all of our projections suggest that we are probably entering a wave that will peak sometime in January or possibly early February. But in the more optimistic scenarios, the wave won't even hit the same heights that we hit back in January of 2021. We will see cases rise, we'll see hospitalizations rise, we'll see deaths unfortunately rise as well. But the highest numbers will not be nearly as bad as they were last winter.

SCIUTTO: OK. We have power in this as a people because we know that boosters help protect us individually, also help protect the population. So how much would booster shots have to increase from where they stand now in terms of a percentage of the population to make a difference in either of those scenarios you described?

MEYERS: Yes. Well, boosters are already making a difference. And every additional booster protects somebody. So there's not like some critical threshold where we've got to get there to make a difference.

SCIUTTO: Right. MEYERS: Every person who goes out and makes that decision helps us. So

right now I think we're at about a little bit under 20 percent of Americans have been boosted, which is about 30 percent who are eligible for boosters, and we've made projections that suggest that if we can get up to 80 percent of eligible people boosted by early March then we could potentially prevent a lot of the deaths that we're projecting in our more pessimistic scenarios.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, if only folks would listen. All right. So where we stand now in terms of new infections, these are still largely Delta driven. We know Omicron spreads quickly. It's already here. And it is spreading quickly. What does your research show in terms of how quickly it will become the dominant variant here?

MEYERS: Yes. Our research and projections from other scientists around the globe suggest that it can become dominant almost overnight. It reaches -- it takes over in a lot of the projections and what we've seen in the data from around the world in a matter of weeks takes over from Delta and probably in many communities in the United States, Omicron is already the dominant variant.

SCIUTTO: Well, please keep crunching those numbers because they help inform, and I hope folks listen to what you just said. Get boosted for yourself and for the population.

MEYERS: Thanks very much.

SCIUTTO: Professor Lauren Ancel Meyers, thank you.

MEYERS: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, several European countries, well, they're reinstating lockdowns. Look at those empty streets there. As the highly contagious Omicron variant continues to spread, which country is flagging U.S. visitors in particular later this hour? It might help you as you're planning your vacation.

But first just a gut-wrenching blow to the White House agenda. What President Biden and Democrats will do now after Senator Joe Manchin says he's a no on Build Back Better.

And closing arguments in the trial of former Minnesota police officer Kim Potter accused of manslaughter in the shooting death of Daunte Wright. What the jury needs to hear before deliberations later.

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[20:17:58]

SCIUTTO: Democrats, the White House now searching for a path forward after Senator Joe Manchin announced he would vote no on the Build Back Better Act. The news all but sinks the social spending bill as it stands. A reminder, it includes a whole host of things -- universal pre-K, lower prescription drug costs as well as steps to combat climate change.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins me now from the White House.

Jeremy, I mean, clearly the administration was caught off guard. I mean, you saw that Jen Psaki statement yesterday and they're not happy. Do they have a path forward?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, Jim. For weeks now, the White House including the president and his top advisers have been working hand in hand with Senator Manchin to try and find a path forward. Senator Manchin had committed privately to the president at his Wilmington. Delaware, home that he would support the framework that had been agreed upon by the president and Democratic leaders and that they would work in good faith to find final agreements.

And just last week, the president met with Senator Manchin and said after that in a statement that he believed that they could find common ground on the remaining differences. And then on Sunday came this bombshell interview by Senator Manchin in which he said that he was a no on moving forward with Build Back Better. We're told that the White House got less than a 30-minute heads up on this.

President Biden tried to get Senator Manchin on the phone before that interview, was unable to do so. And then came this scathing statement from the White House that really reflected the anger and the surprise that the president and his top aides felt. And it talked about that vow to reach common ground, saying, quote, "If his comments on FOX and written statement indicate an end to that effort to find common ground, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position and a breach of his commitments to the president and the senator's colleagues in the House and the Senate."

The statement by Press Secretary Jen Psaki also goes on to point to a number of the policy achievements that would have been reached in this bill that they say Senator Manchin is now standing in the way of. And it is important to note that President Biden we're told did, indeed, sign off on this statement going out and in particular the parts of the statement that point out that Senator Manchin has breached his commitments to the president.

[10:20:11]

We're told that Senator Manchin just now in a radio interview said that he expected this kind of a forceful response from the White House. But now of course the question is how do they, indeed, move forward. And the White House is committing saying we will find a way to move forward next year. But what that path is seems very unclear right now. All we know is that Senator Schumer has said that they will vote on this legislation in the new year -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss, Congressman Dean Phillips, he's a Democrat from Minnesota. He is co-vice chair of the bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus.

Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning. REP. DEAN PHILLIPS (D-MN): Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you about the response to this. You saw the White House press secretary's response yesterday. Clearly not happy with Joe Manchin. Now you see Chuck Schumer wants to force a vote on this, basically to make Joe Manchin go thumbs down on this in public. Is that smart? Does the White House want to make an enemy of Joe Manchin?

PHILLIPS: Jim, I don't think so. In my life experience, putting people in that position, condemnation and vitriol doesn't usually result in the outcome that we desire. And let me assure you, I'm terribly disappointed, many of us including the senator, have been working hard for months on this. But let me assure everybody watching that I believe this is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.

And I'm troubled by the response to it because I think these condemnations will only harden his heart, and I as the vice chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus, am on a mission along with my colleagues, at least Democratic colleagues right now, to find some common ground on this and ensure it does get done. So I want people to keep the faith.

SCIUTTO: Tell us what that mission plan is. There is now this idea of breaking it up, in effect. Start with the most urgent needs, things you know you could get support for. What are those first steps? Do you start, for instance, with the child tax credit?

PHILLIPS: Well, first, I know Senator Manchin to be a man of his word. And I believe based on his public comments and his work so far on both this and the Freedom to Vote Act, which we should also talk about, he has intention to get these done. He doesn't like how the Build Back Better Act looks right now, so how do we proceed? We sit down. We identify what his misgives are specifically, and try to find a way to reconcile this. You know, our system of government as you well know --

SCIUTTO: Paint the picture for me, though. Paint a picture because you and the Problem Solvers Caucus have been trying to find a way forward for months, right. And, you know, Biden seemed to believe that Manchin could get there. Manchin expressed some public hope that he could get there. And keep in mind, I want to acknowledge there are other senators, Sinema among them, who've expressed reservations along the way. But paint me a picture. What is it -- give me an idea where there's overlap here and interest.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's start with conversation versus condemnation. Yes, there are elements of it that he is not thrilled with. And look, we have to inject some pragmatism into the circumstance. We have a system of government that makes this tedious. It's designed to make change difficult. And boy, we are witnessing that right now. So let's recognize what we need. We need him. Plain and simple. We need his vote.

So all of those who are throwing fire at him do so at our collective peril. So we have to sit down in January, you know, clear our heads and our hearts a little bit. There is a path forward. And I'm, I'm actually, I have faith that we will get this done, and I would ask that the White House and fellow Democrats who are disappointed -- I'm among them, by the way, Jim. I'm terribly disappointed.

But if we wish to accomplish this, my message is simple. Let's not give up. We have 10 months until the next election with the current very thin majorities in place. Let's not give up. And in my experience, the way many of my colleagues are approaching this, I'm afraid will result in exactly what we do not want, which is nothing.

SCIUTTO: OK. Is there a possibility -- I don't want to get, you know, too far out on a limb here -- of Republican support for some of these individual measures? For instance, on prescription drug costs. I mean, that, by the way, is something that the Trump administration had pursued in a Republican-controlled Congress, or on other issues such as paid family leave, there are a couple Republican lawmakers who have expressed support for that.

Do you see that as a possibility in this environment or is that pie in sky?

PHILLIPS: Well, one would think that. First of all, most of the elements of Build Back Better are wonderfully supported by most Americans. One would think that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would be supportive of a lot of it. I believe they are. Certainly, in private they are. Politics gets in the way of everything. But I do believe yes.

[10:25:01]

And one of the great challenges and problems in our system right now, Jim, is that we package these massive measures together. We don't allow the input of rank-and-file members in either the House or Senate. And I'm afraid we're not using a process that results in the best outcomes and frankly most expeditious ones. The answer is yes, I do believe there are elements to separate and perhaps vote on independently, but I do believe collectively the Build Back Better Act is very important the way it is positioned right now.

So I think it's unlikely, sadly, that we will get Republicans to join. I think it's worth an effort, but the most expeditious likely path forward is to reconcile this with Mr. Manchin. I do believe it's possible.

SCIUTTO: OK.

PHILLIPS: And I hope some months from now it might be only one, it could be a few, that we're back together celebrating the great success for the country.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. You know the headwinds and the midterms are already strong against Democrats. Just look at the polling on a generic ballot. Without passing at least some of this, even in a pared-down form, maybe an individual measure here, an individual measure there, are Democrats in for a real storm in the midterms otherwise? PHILLIPS: Well, if Democrats don't set down the swords and start more

conversation with one another and recognizing where we have common ground and shared objectives and supporting one another, then I think, yes, we're in deep trouble. But at the end I'm one of many of my colleagues who didn't come to Washington to be perpetual members of Congress. We came here to get good work done.

This Congress is already one of the most productive in recent memory. If we can pass this, it will be during my lifetime the most productive Congress perhaps in history. That's something that we can all hang our hats on. It is possible. For those who are looking at November, I say shame on them. We're here to do work right now. We have to get through COVID. We have to maintain this economy.

Most importantly, recognize that if we don't start building bridges to one another, we've got far bigger problems than COVID, than climate change, and then our economy. And it is my job, it's incumbent on all of us, to take a breath over these holidays, look at each other's hearts and heads a little bit with more fondness and respect and do better.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And that to me is our foremost mission. I think we're going to do it. I'm optimistic.

SCIUTTO: I hear you. Do better. On the Hill.

PHILLIPS: Do better.

SCIUTTO: And in family Christmas parties as well.

Congressman Dean Phillips, thanks so much.

PHILLIPS: Hear, hear. Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, in Europe, the Omicron variant is already showing up in force. Which countries are now locking back down, even flagging U.S. travelers? But first here's a look at some other events we're watching today.

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