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Manchin Defends His Opposition To Spending Bill, "I Just Got To My Wit's End"; Closures, Cancellations And New Concerns As COVID Surges; Trump Sues New York Attorney General In Effort To Stop Probe Into His Company; Stocks Fall As Storm Clouds Gather Over Global Economy. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 20, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:03]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Let's bring in now, Charlie Dent, CNN political commentator, and former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania.

Congressman, good to have you.

You have a new op-ed on CNN.com, and you say that someone should pin a medal on Senator Manchin's chest. Why?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Joe Manchin, contrary to what I have been hearing over the last 24 hours is forthright, transparent, and open about where he stands. He has been saying for months his objections, his reservations, his concerns with that bill on the size and scope, just as hoppy, your previous guest stated.

He's had numerous concerns. People may be angry or disappointed, but they should not be surprised. He does represent West Virginia. I just saw a poll in West Virginia showing he has a 61 percent favorability rating, and build back better has a 61 percent disapproval rating. They agree with him on this.

Manchin does try to get to yes. Joe Manchin does understand that to enact meaningful, durable, sustainable reforms, you need a bipartisan consensus. He's tried. He demonstrated that on the infrastructure bill.

He has acted in good faith all along. Many on the far left don't like what they're hearing. They cannot take no for an answer.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, hold on for a second. I understand that we have established. Hoppy, we got him back. Both up at the same time, that wasn't the plan. Good to have it.

All right. Hoppy, I want you to continue your answer on the reaction to this announcement from Senator Manchin!

HOPPY KERCHEVAL, INTERVIEWED MANCHIN AFTER SENATOR DECLARED OPPOSITION TO BBB PLAN: Sure and I think the congressman said it well. And also, as I said, Manchin has managed to thread the political needle in West Virginia. He's a Democrat, last Democrat standing, and he's well aware of what constituents want and don't want, and I think he has tried to govern to that effect.

I got a ton of texts today on my show from people who are clearly from a more conservative side who said I'm not a fan of Manchin or I questioned Manchin, but I'm glad he did this. I'm glad he stood up. I'm glad he stood strong on this.

Remember, West Virginia has a progressive wing of the Democratic Party but it's not very big, and they don't like Manchin anyway. So Manchin's core is moderate Democrats, moderate independents, and some more left-leaning Republicans. That's his constituency, and I think -- I think that he gets that, and certainly the response I've gotten is they appreciate what Manchin did.

And also one of the points, Victor, is that --

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

KERCHEVAL: -- every time, you have to wonder about strategy. Every time Bernie Sanders or AOC goes on CNN and says something bad about Manchin, Manchin's numbers improve in West Virginia.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. You point out an important point. The 40-point advantage for President Trump in 2020, this is not the same west Virginia that he was elected in in 2010, right? You got Jim Justice who moved from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party. This is not Byrd's West Virginia, not Rockefeller's West Virginia.

Let me come to you, Congressman, and play this portion of Hoppy's interview in which he asked about his future in the Democratic Party.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I would like to hope there's still Democrats that feel like I do. I'm socially -- I'm fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. If there's no Democrats like that, and then they have to push me wherever they want me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I mean, if you are head of a 50/50 split in the Senate, what do you hear there, Congressman?

DENT: I think Democrats in Congress better figure something out real fast. They need Joe Manchin a lot more than he needs them.

Bottom line, look, he is popular in West Virginia, and I do think there are many Democrats who feel as Joe Manchin does. They just don't -- many are not in Congress. Throughout west Virginia and Pennsylvania, I would argue there are plenty of moderate Democrats that agree with what Joe Manchin is doing as there are moderate Republicans.

He speaks to the center of the country. I think Joe Manchin is much more aligned with most Americans than his critics. As Hoppy just stated, when Bernie Sanders and members of the Squad go on television and CNN and bash him, Joe Manchin's numbers go up in West Virginia. They're doing him a favor.

But they better be careful. They could drive him to become an independent or Republican, and where does their agenda go.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, let me point out that the policies in this bill that have been polled are popular. The child tax credit is popular. The lowering of prescription drugs is popular.

So when you suggest that Joe Manchin is closer to the American people, the specifics, many of them in this bill are very popular with the American people. How do you reconcile those?

DENT: Well, very simply, it's the size and the scope of the proposal that has scared the daylights out of people particularly after $6 trillion has been spent on COVID, most of it necessary.

[15:35:06]

There -- he's -- these inflationary pressures, supply chain shortages, there are all kinds of issues that are really driving the American public sure, people like a lot of the component of the bill, but they should -- their scale is too big. They should do just one of these things and negotiated -- they could have done it on a bipartisan basis if they wanted to. But they wanted everything, they want it all, and they want it now.

It's too much. That's what the problem here is. It's not the components, it's the overall package.

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about the components as we wrap it with you, Hoppy. What we're hearing from the White House, we just heard from Jen Psaki, this dear colleague later that Speaker Pelosi sent out suggests that some of this is salvageable, that this is not over over. That this is still a negotiation.

Did you get that from the senator that there's a path forward here on this?

KERCHEVAL: Yeah, I did. And not specifically, but just because I know Manchin, and that is this was just, as the congressman said, this was just too much in too many different things. So it's kind of collapsed under its own weight.

So, rather than people who are -- Democrats criticizing Manchin, maybe they should look at the bill, what was wrong with the bill, and then pick out the parts that are popular as you alluded to, Victor, that you can get through and do those things. And, again, call up Manchin, and say let's do a deal on these things, and I'm sure you'll restart a conversation.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, I will point out as we heard from Senator Sanders, as you pointed out as well, Congressman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the congresswoman, 48 senators on board here, and it's already passed the House, shifting this to Senator Sanders, how much of a negotiation really is that, that's their point. I wanted to include that in this conversation as well. Congressman Charlie Dent, Hoppy Kercheval, good to have you both.

KERCHEVAL: Thank you very much.

DENT: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. The U.S. sees a new surge in infections and life disruption. We ask some of your most pressing questions during this new phase of the pandemic. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:57]

BLACKWELL: Two years into the pandemic now, and we are seeing long lines for COVID tests, professional sports leagues are cancelling games, major colleges are moving to remote learning. The delta variant accounts for 97 percent of reported infections in the U.S. right now. But the contagious omicron variant continues to spread. It's in at least 45 states.

Joining me now is Dr. Megan Ranney. She's a professor of emergency medicine at Brown University.

Dr. Ranney, good to have you.

As I read those, it sounds a lot like March 2020, but this is not March 2020. We are in a much better footing than we were back then. Let's just start with that point.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: That is exactly right. Thanks to vaccines, the connection between cases and hospitalizations has been partially broken. So when you are seeing COVID cases spread in an area with high vaccination rates, especially if there are high booster rates, most of those cases are not going to turn into hospitalizations, ICU stays or deaths.

However, here's the tough part, there's a lot of America that still is not vaccinated, and omicron seems to be breaking through the immunity from prior infections. There are a lot of folks at risk, and our hospitals across the country are in some ways got more of a breaking point than they were back in March 2020, just because health care workers are so burnt out. So, it's one of those, it's a little bit of good, but a little bit of bad as well.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, that's the case with a lot of these questions and answers. Let me get to some from our viewers. Of course, this is a point at which there is a lot of uncertainty as things are changing. We're getting to this surge.

I'm going to start with Brenda Brown. She sent me on Twitter here. She had the J&J one shot vaccine. If three shots of a vaccine are considered fully vaccinated, then what will I be if I take the Moderna or Pfizer booster shot, will I need to get a third shot of one of those vaccines? Essentially, will she need four shots? RANNEY: Brenda, this is a great question and one I'm hearing from a lot of folks including my own friends who are vaccinated with J&J. Current data is if you get an mRNA booster, so Pfizer or Moderna, on top of that initial J&J shot, you will be adequately protected against omicron to the same extent as people that got the two initial Pfizer and Moderna and then a booster.

But the caveat there, that data is still preliminary, but data to date suggests that second dose for you is the same as a third dose was for me.

BLACKWELL: There was a moment over the weekend, former President Trump is now talking about his vaccination status, and he got an unexpected reaction. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, TV HOST: Both the president and I are vaxed.

And did you get the booster?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

O'REILLY: I got it too. OK. So --

TRUMP: Don't, don't, don't. It's a very tiny group over there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: That was the former president being booed for having a booster.

And there were some who said if former President Trump were to come out and tell his base to get vaccinated, get boosted, they would do that.

[15:45:04]

What do you hear as you hear the former president being booed for his booster shot?

RANNEY: You know, I hear the effect of things like Sarah Palin's speech this weekend that she said over her dead body would she get vaccinated. We need the Republican Party and the Trump side of the Republican Party to get on message with the fact that these vaccines and boosters are important.

Unfortunately, the misinformation, and disinformation has gotten such a deep hold that folks aren't even listening to Trump now about the importance of vaccines and boosters.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of listening to a president, President Biden is going to deliver this address tomorrow as we are at this important moment in the pandemic. The reporting from the White House is that there's not going to be a lot new here, focusing on getting vaccinated, access to tests. What do you want to hear from the president?

RANNEY: So there's what I wish I would hear but I think is not politically feasible, and what I think and hope that we will hear.

What I think and hope that we will hear is increased access to vaccines and boosters, particularly for vulnerable or historically marginalized communities. I hope to hear an increased doubling down on health care mandates, which have gone back and forth in the courts and I hope to hear more provision of rapid tests and testing in general.

What I would love to hear, but I'm not expecting to see are things around vaccine mandates for travel, for airplane flights. I would love to hear more around support of health care workers. This is an all hands on deck moment for our health care system, and I'd love to hear more around that. And I would love to hear a reemphasis of the importance of masking in public indoor spaces, particularly with a good mask.

BLACKWELL: There seems to be a consensus from our medical analysts that a domestic air travel mandate for vaccines would be something that would certainly get more people to get the vaccine and would make good public health sense. Again, as you said, unlikely that we'll hear that from the president tomorrow.

Dr. Megan Ranney, thank you.

RANNEY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Former President Trump accuses the New York attorney general of misconduct and abuse of power. He's now asking a federal court to stop the AG's investigation into his company. We've got details of his lawsuit, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:55]

BLACKWELL: Former President Trump is suing the New York attorney general. The lawsuit alleges misconduct and abuse of power. It's his latest effort to derail the state's probe into his company.

Following this development is Paula Reid, CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent.

So, tell us more about the lawsuit and the response from the AG's office.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Victor, in this lawsuit, Trump's attorneys are seeking to block the New York state attorney general's long-running investigation into the Trump organization. Roughly two years, the New York attorney general has been conducting a civil investigation into whether the Trump organization lied about its assets to secure favorable loan terms, favorable insurance rates and to pay lower taxes.

Now, this investigation is mirrored by a very similar criminal investigation being conducted by the Manhattan district attorney's office. That investigation has already resulted in criminal charges against the organization and one of its executives.

Now this lawsuit comes as the attorney general is seeking to depose a former president under oath next month. Now Trump and his lawyers have long argued that Letitia James, the attorney general, that she is politically motivated, and in this lawsuit, they argue that she has violated Trump's constitutional rights and abused her office to further her political career.

Now James' office has issued a statement in response saying, quote, to be clear, neither Mr. Trump nor the Trump Organization gets to dictate if and where they'll answer for their actions.

Our investigation will continue undeterred because no one is above the law, not even someone with the name Trump.

BLACKWELL: All right. We'll see where this one goes.

Paula Reid, thank you.

Omicron fears around the world are impacting the markets here at home. It's not just the gut punch for the economy. We'll talk about more of the impact on your everyday life, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:56:48]

BLACKWELL: Goldman Sachs cut its economic forecast for the U.S. after Senator Joe Manchin rejected the president's Build Back Better plan.

Also today, U.S. stocks fell as omicron fears trigger stricter measures to contain the highly contagious new variant.

CNN business reporter Matt Egan joins us now.

So let's start with Goldman Sachs. What's it saying now about this dimmer economic outlook?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Victor, Goldman Sachs is saying that the apparent demise of Build Back Better means the economy in 2022 is not going to grow as fast as they thought it would. Just hours after Joe Manchin announced his opposition to the president's signature legislation, Goldman Sachs came out and cut its outlook. The Wall Street bank is now calling for the U.S. economy to grow at an annualized pace of 2 percent in the first quarter. That's a significant downshift from previously where they thought it would be 3 percent.

Goldman also trimmed its GDP forecast for the second quarter and the third quarter as well, and the bank said, simply put, they said, quote, the failure to pass this bill has, quote, negative growth implications. Now, this shows two things, I think.

One, that many people, not just in Washington, but on Wall Street, expected that eventually Democrats were going to get something done here so this is a surprise. Two, they also thought this was largely, despite all the controversy, that this was largely going to be a positive for the economy.

Now, Goldman Sachs in particular, pointed out that the expanded, the enhanced child tax credit, that that now goes away unless Congress acts. That's a big deal. This was providing $300 a month per child under the age of 6, $250 per month between 6 and 17 going away. That's a big deal.

Also, this legislation was providing half a trillion dollars in investments to fight the climate crisis. That's now up in the air.

So, listen, it does mean that the economy could grow slower than people thought but, Victor, clearly the big wild card is what happened next on the COVID front, because that's the biggest driver for the economy.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, and important to see if there is a path forward on the child tax credit. But let's talk more about that, the impact of omicron.

EGAN: Yeah, well, we definitely have seen the stock market today, all the major markets are down by about 1 percent on the day. And this is really all about concerns about the rapid spread of COVID and the lockdowns that we've seen in Europe. We're seeing, in particular, some travel and consumer focused stocks taking a hit. JetBlue, Wynn Resorts, Darden Restaurants, TripAdvisor, all of them moving down.

Investors are also betting that people are going to be stuck at home more often. We're seeing stocks perform better, including Zoom and Netflix and Chewy. Oil prices also down on concerns about less demand, people taking fewer road trips, flying less often, maybe commuting less often. Normally I'd be doing this on set with you and I'm not because of COVID.

The good news is markets are finishing off their worst levels of the day. No panic, but, Victor, all of this is clearly a reminder that as much as we're all done with COVID, COVID is not done with us.

BLACKWELL: Certainly not. I miss you on set, but the up side here is I get to see your Christmas tree and it's a very nice tree there behind you.

EGAN: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, all right. Matt Egan for us -- Matt, thanks so much.

And "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts now.