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Interview With U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams; President Biden Delivers Address on COVID Fight. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 21, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This week, we will send dozens of ambulances to New York and Maine because of -- because the COVID is spreading very rapidly to help transport patients.

Our doctors, nurses, hospital staffs have gone above and beyond during this pandemic. The strain and stress is real. I really mean it. It's real. And we will have their backs, though. We have to let them know we have their backs.

Finally, we're making sure that COVID-19 no longer closes businesses or schools. Last week, a federal court reinstated my administration's vaccination or test. The vaccination or test rule for businesses with more than 100 employees. It requires employers with 100 or more employees to protect their workers who are on site and indoors, with the requirement that they be vaccinated or tested each week or go home.

These rules are going to keep workers safe. And keep workers safe will help keep businesses open. When people are vaccinated or tested, they are much less likely to get sick and less likely to spread it to others.

Customers are more likely to come in and shop because they know it's a safe environment. I know vaccination requirements are unpopular for many. They're not even popular for those who are anxious to get them. My administration has put them in place not to control your life, but to save your life and the lives of others.

We're -- 400,000 Americans died from COVID this calendar year, and almost all were unvaccinated. Almost all were preventable. The rule is legal and effective, and it's going to save thousands of American lives.

We must also keep our K-12 schools open. Look, the science is clear and overwhelming. We know how to keep our kids safe from COVID-19 in school. K-12 schools should be open, and that safety is increased if schools require all adults who work in the schools to get vaccinated and take the safety measures that the CDC is recommending, including masking.

I got Congress to pass billions of dollars in school improvements, ventilation, and social distances. Schools should be safer than ever from COVID-19. And just Friday, the CDC issued a -- test-to-stay guidelines, so

schools can stay open and kids can stay in class, even if a classmate tests positive. COVID-19 is scary, but the science is clear. Children are safe -- are as safe in school are they are any place, assuming the appropriate precautions have been taken, and they have already been funded.

Let me close with this. I know you're tired. I really mean this. And I know you're frustrated. We all want this to be over. But we're still in it. And this is a critical moment. We also have more tools than we have ever had before. We're ready. We will get through this.

As we head into the holidays, I want us to all keep the faith. I want to sincerely thank you for your perseverance, your courage, your countless acts of kindness, love and sacrifice during these last two years.

Throughout our history, we have been tested as a people and as a nation. Through war and turmoil, we had to ask whether we would be safe, whether it would be OK, whether we would get back to who we are.

We have always endured because, remember, there is no challenge too big for America. I mean this from the bottom of my heart, no challenge. We have come through better and stronger because we stay together as the United States of America. That's what we have to keep doing today.

We can do this together, I guarantee you. May God bless you all, and may God protect our troops. And happy holidays. God love you all. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: On testing, sir, you said we have to do better.

But public health officials have been saying for months you need to surge rapid tests for just this moment. Is it a failure that you don't have an adequate amount of tests for everyone to be able to get one if they need one right now?

BIDEN: No, it's not because COVID is spreading so rapidly. If you notice, it just happened almost over night, just in the last month.

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: So, no, it's not a failure.

[15:05:02]

But the alarm bell went off. I don't think anybody anticipated that this was going to be as rapidly spreading as it did. And so the question is, we had a lot of people who have access the tests, who could order them, could have their insurance pay for them, et cetera.

But, all of a sudden, it was like everybody rushed to the counter. It was a big, big rush. And I knew that was coming, so what I tried to do is meet with the companies and use the Defense Production Act to get a half-a-billion more tests and figure out how to get them to their homes, get them on shelves in the store.

So, that's what's it all about.

Yes.

QUESTION: Mr. President, what's your message to Americans who are trying to get tested now and who are not able to get tested and who are wondering what took so long to ramp up testing?

BIDEN: Come on. What took so long?

QUESTION: I'm hearing that from people who are trying to get tested now before the holidays.

BIDEN: Well, what took so long is, it didn't take long at all. What happened was, the Omicron virus spread even more rapidly than anybody thought.

If I had told you four weeks ago that this would spread by -- on a day-to-day basis, it would spread by 50, 100 percent, 200 percent, 500 percent, I think you would have looked at me and said, Biden, what are you drinking?

But that's what it did. Now, we don't know what's going to happen from here. It looks -- there's some evidence that, in South Africa, where a lot of this started, that it's dropping off quickly too. We don't know. But I do know that we're not going to be in a position, like I said when we -- remember, we were having a problem with masks and gowns and the like?

I said, I promise you. Remember the criticism? I got questions from some of you, why are you still paying for all of these masks and gowns? Why are you stockpiling this? Because we don't know. Turns out we're going to need them.

In the back and...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) sir, and will you reverse the travel ban now that Omicron is so prevalent here in the U.S.?

BIDEN: I'm considering reversing it. I'm going to talk with my team in the next couple of days.

Look, remember why I said we put the travel ban on, is to see how much time we had before it hit here, so we could begin to decide what we needed by looking at what was happening in other countries. And -- but we're past that now.

And so it's something that is being raised with me by the docs and I will have an answer for that soon.

(CROSSTALK) QUESTION: The importance of keeping your word of trust. Do you believe Senator Manchin kept his word to you? And how do you rebuild trust with progressives in your party to advance your legislation now?

BIDEN: You know, I have told you before, you have heard me say this before, some people think -- maybe I'm not Irish because I don't hold a grudge.

Look, I want to get things done. I still think there's a possibility of getting Build Back Better done. What I don't want to do get into -- and Joe went on TV today and -- I don't whether it was TV or not.

I'm told he was speaking to the liberal caucus and said, Joe Biden didn't mislead you. I misled you.

And, look, I'm not looking for -- and let me say something.

You saw what happened yesterday, all the talk about how my Build Back Better plan was going to increase inflation and going to cause these debts and all the like. What happened? Goldman Sachs and others said, if we don't pass Build Back Better, we're in trouble, because it's going to grow the economy. Without it, we're not going to grow.

And what happened? Stock prices went way down. It took a real dip. If you take a look, the vast -- I wasn't -- everybody thinks, because I quoted 17 Nobel laureates saying this is going to help inflation -- think about it in terms of you're a hardworking person, and you're making 60 grand if you're alone, if you're a mom just on her own, or if you're making 80 grand, a mom and dad, 90 grand, like a lot of people do.

And you're worried about inflation. You should be worried about it, because it's a devastating thing for people who are working-class and middle-class folks. It really hurts. Where is most of the cost now? The cost is finding in gasoline, even though I have put -- even I have been able to bring it down 12 cents a gallon. It will come down more, I believe.

We talked about what -- the cost in food prices going up, et cetera. But look what's in Build Back Better. Child care. You can reduce it by up to 70 percent. That will be the difference between 20 million women go -- go back in the work force being able to go back if you pass it.

We're talking about health care, insulin. Since we got -- we got 200,000 kids with type one diabetes. You know what it's costing? It costs somewhere between 10 cents and $10 to come up with the formula, OK, a while ago. All right? You know what it's costing them on average?; $560 a -- $640 a month, up to $1,000 a month.

[15:10:08]

What do you do if you're a mom and a dad working with minimum wage, busting your neck, and you look at your kid, and you know, if you don't get that vaccine for him -- excuse me -- if you don't get that drug for him, if you don't get that -- that he would be able to take that, what happens? They will likely to go into a coma and maybe die. Not only do you put the kid's life at stake, but you strip away all the dignity of a parent looking at their child. I'm not joking about this. Imagine being a parent looking at a child, and you can't afford. You have no house to borrow against. You have no savings.

It's wrong. But all the things in that bill are going to reduce prices and costs for middle-class and working-class people. It's going to reduce their costs of -- what's inflation? Having to pay more than the money you have because things have gone up. Well, bring down all those costs across the board, from child care to a child care tax credit.

But I'm not supposed to be having this press conference right now.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Mr. President, did Senator Manchin break his commitment to you?

When you announced the framework, the White House says that all 50 senators were believed to get behind it, all 50 Democratic senators? So did Senator Manchin break his commitment to you?

BIDEN: Senator Manchin and I are going to get something done.

Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: OK, the president laying out his plan to the American people in how he's going to deal with COVID in the days and weeks ahead, as the nation faces a another surge, especially with this new variant, Omicron, that has now become the dominant variant here in the U.S.

He talked about boosters. He talked about getting people vaccinated for those first doses. He talked about new testing plans, about keeping kids in schools.

Let's bring in our guests, Jeff Zeleny, who's at the White House, also with us, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, Dr. Peter Hotez, and former U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

Dr. Hotez, let me start with you.

What's your biggest takeaway from this speech today?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, I think it's his emotion and his exhaustion and frustration that we have not been able to get the country fully vaccinated, by that, not only three doses, but so much of the country has been infected and recovered, refusing to get vaccinated.

On top of that, so much of the country has not vaccinated at all, is completely vulnerable. And he recognizes the very stark reality that, since June 1 of this year, 200,000 Americans have needlessly lost their lives because they refused to get vaccinated. And he sees the train coming down the tracks. He knows that that number could easily double.

We could lose -- we could be up to a million American lives lost by the end of first quarter in 2022, and so a doubling of that 200,000 unvaccinated since June to 400,000.

And so he -- I heard a note of anger, a note of frustration, and I feel -- and I sympathize with that, because it has been exhausting trying to convince the country to get vaccinated.

CABRERA: And we know that the latest forecasts show cases are climbing so rapidly, we may hit a peak that's higher than previous surges when it comes to just number of cases.

So, testing is so critical here, Gloria. And the president was asked a lot of questions about testing and if his administration was prepared. We know there are long lines for testing. People still don't have access to tests very well.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

CABRERA: How do you think he handled that?

BORGER: Well, I think he was a little defensive about testing. That has been a problem.

Everyone, including medical people, are saying we need more tests, we need more tests that are available. And his answer was, nobody could have predicted that Omicron would have risen so rapidly, vertically almost. And we didn't have enough testing before Omicron. And I think that has been the problem.

And I think now they're playing a lot of catchup. So you talk about half-a-billion tests that will be available to people to go to their homes, if you log on a Web site. Some folks are saying that even that isn't going to be enough.

But his point was, we were doing everything as fast as we could, and we had enough, and now we're in a different situation. So he did say sound a little bit defensive to me.

[15:15:03]

CABRERA: Surgeon General Adams, Christmas is just four days away.

People are listening closely to this speech, wondering, what should I do? What's the takeaway there?

DR. JEROME ADAMS, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Well, the takeaway -- and you heard this from President Biden -- was a sense of urgency, a sense of urgency we have been begging for in terms of recognizing that people need to be tested.

A text that I literally got before I went on air was from a neighbor who had a high-risk contact. I said, go and get tested. The only place I could find one is 40 minutes away. So I booked one at Walgreens for next Monday. That's too late. That's too late. The virus is spreading.

For the president to say that this is not a failure, I mean, I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. But to people out there, I want you to understand it's not too late for you to protect yourself. Get your vaccination, get your booster.

And one of the things that president did that he could have done a little bit more of was actually helped people understand why it matters to them. I want to say what the president should have said. You want control over your health this holiday season. You don't want to let the virus control you.

And the way that we get control over our holiday season is by getting our vaccination, getting our booster. We went from 1 percent to 13 percent to 73 percent Omicron. Everyone's getting Omicron for Christmas this year. The question is just whether or not you're going to get it with the protection of vaccinations and boosters.

CABRERA: It was interesting to hear the president say, President Trump, former President Trump got his boosters. This is one thing I think we agree on.

What did you make of that moment, Surgeon General?

ADAMS: Well, I think President Biden in the White House were -- had been reading my tweets from the last couple of days, because I said, you need to be less accusatory, less political. You can't say Trump deserves no credit for the vaccines and then say, why won't he go out and support them?

So I actually want to applaud the president and the White House for doing that. And I want to applaud them again for taking a little bit less of an accusatory tone towards the unvaccinated. I meet with people every day who have questions, and they have legitimate questions. They're women who are worried about fertility. There are other people out there who've had prior COVID. And they say, I have been vaccinated. I have had prior COVID. I had this conversation today. Do I need to get a booster?

These aren't people who are irrational. They aren't people who are trying to harm their neighbors. They're people who just have questions, and we need to approach it that way. And I found that, when you do it, you can win people over. So kudos to the president for taking that lighter tone, that less political tone than what they have taken in the past.

CABRERA: Dr. Hotez, the president addressed the growing number of cases even among the vaccinated, people who've had two doses. Some people have had breakthrough cases even after getting a booster shot. And he says there will be cases in every office.

Do we need new guidelines on how to deal with these cases?

HOTEZ: Well, I think the first point is two doses of either vaccine is not going to be adequate to protect symptomatic infection and possibly even serious illness. So, we have to move to a three-dose vaccine and be clear about that.

And the reality is, the three-dose vaccine against Delta was fantastic with that big rise in virus-neutralizing antibody, but against Omicron, we are seeing evidence from Imperial College in London of waning immunity after a couple of months.

And that is really concerning that we will see a lot of breakthrough infection if people are more than a couple of months out of their booster. How do we message that to the public? And, more importantly, from my standpoint, how do we protect our health care workers, who are now, instead of being in the hospital, are going to be at home with breakthrough symptomatic COVID?

And what can we do to protect them? And I have made some suggestions about that. But we didn't hear about that today. And I think we are really going to need some innovation to keep everybody in the health care work force.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Oh, go ahead, please.

ADAMS: Peter said something that's incredibly important.

And I want to hit this again. We really need to hear from the CDC and from the White House on the definition of fully vaccinated. Dr. Hotez and I, among many others, have said this definition needs to change.

You have got J&J folks out there walking around with one dose. There's not a doctor out there that will tell you that is adequate protection against Delta or Omicron. And that's still the definition of fully vaccinated.

We need to change the definition of fully vaccinated so that people who are now subject to mandates will actually understand that they have to get the three doses of the Moderna or at least a second dose of something if they have gotten the J&J.

Peter, thoughts on that? Because I think that's an important point that you brought up.

CABRERA: But -- and before you offer your thoughts, Dr. Hotez, I do think this is an important point.

Before you offer your thoughts, I will say, when Dr. Fauci and some of the current administration officials have been asked about this, they say it's semantics and it makes it more complicated when it comes to implementing mandates if you are to change what is fully vaccinated. That's one of the reasons perhaps that they haven't gone there yet.

[15:20:00]

But the messaging that they keep reiterating is three doses is what you need for optimal protection.

Dr. Hotez, how should this be addressed? HOTEZ: Well, I think the way you address it is to say, now Omicron is

here. Now it's the dominant variant. And, unfortunately, that's life in the big city.

With this new variant, two doses is no longer going to be adequate. And I understand that is somewhat sensitive, because you have got all of these individuals who are not even getting any doses of vaccine. And the thinking was, well, if we can at least tell them it's only two doses, they might do it. Now we have to move the goalposts and go to three.

But we have got to speak to the American people like they're adults. And that is the reality. It is a three-dose vaccine. It really always has been a three-dose vaccine. And, even then, because of the unique features of this Omicron variant, it's going to create some added complexities.

CABRERA: I do want to get Jeff Zeleny into the conversation, because I know you have been listening closely.

But you also have been doing reporting leading up to this speech, as we heard the president now lay out this series of steps that they are taking, when it comes to testing, when it comes to increasing vaccination sites, sending FEMA personnel to be able to administer more vaccine doses, when it comes to helping doctors who are on the front lines and nurses and other health workers who are just getting pummeled right now because of surges in cases in certain places right now, especially places in the Midwest, like Wisconsin or Michigan or Indiana.

And he also at the same time tried to not underplay the level of concern, but not overplay it. He's saying, be concerned, but don't panic. And he tried to reiterate that the U.S. is in a different place from March of 2020, when all of this began. So there were a lot of messages there. How concerned, Jeff, is the White House about getting this under control?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There certainly were a lot of messages.

And this is probably one of the most significant speeches, at least in recent weeks and months, that the president has given on this pandemic. But the reality is, there will be a lot of time for a looking backward. Yes, there clearly has not been enough testing. You could hear the defensiveness in his voice as our colleague Phil Mattingly asked him that question about testing.

But the reality is, this administration now will be judged by what is to come. This administration will be judged by, are they able to get those 500 million attest to people's homes? We have seen other administrations -- the Obama one comes to mind -- about how Web sites have worked to sign up for health-related matters.

So the Biden administration very aware of that. They want to get this right, but also setting up these testing facilities. They know the next few weeks, before any of that takes effect, will be critical to this.

So a question here is, the White House has known about Omicron really for almost a month. Over the Thanksgiving vacation, we saw the president really take very swift action to have travel restrictions. And what has happened since then?

Shouldn't -- everyone knew Christmas was coming, obviously, this week, and testing would be up anyway. Why has it taken so long? Again, there will be ample time to review all of that. But going forward, this is a new test for this administration, how they're able to get ahead of this.

And this is not a Christmas message that any president wants to deliver. He was standing there in the State Dining Room in front of those two Christmas trees. But he did say, look, I know you're disappointed. I know you are tired. But this is a critical moment. So he was asking the country one more time to be patient and do something for the good of the country.

He was speaking to the vaccinated to have patience and the unvaccinated to do something for others and get that shot.

CABRERA: OK, Jeff Zeleny, thank you. I know you need to go get more reporting done. So I will let you go, as I continue the conversation with the rest of my group here.

ZELENY: Sure.

CABRERA: Gloria, did you want to jump in there?

BORGER: Yes.

Yes, I just wanted to add something to what Jeff was saying. What I heard from the president was a real sense of anger, almost, frustration, certainly, when he was talking about the anti-vax contingent in the country, which is considerable.

And he said, those choices are fueled by dangerous information. He said, people are making money by peddling lies. It's wrong. It's immoral. And I call on these purveyors of misinformation to stop it now.

And you know what he is talking about. He is talking about people who go on television or anywhere else and say, you don't need -- you don't need to get vaccinated if you have had COVID before. You don't need to get a booster. Vaccines cause all kinds of things to happen to you, the conspiracy theories, everything else.

You could just hear it in his voice. I think, while this administration planned for a lot of things and planned for some things better than others, the one thing the administration did not count on, I think, was the large number of people who would refuse to get vaccinated.

[15:25:15] And you saw it just the other day, when Donald Trump himself admitted that -- and said, yes, I have been boosted. And he got booed by some of his own supporters, something he didn't like. It almost seemed to take him by surprise, because he was fine with saying that he had been boosted.

So, this is a contingent in this country that I think somehow they just didn't think was going to grow as large as it's grown. And it's clearly frustrating.

(CROSSTALK)

ADAMS: If I can make a quick point there...

CABRERA: Yes.

ADAMS: I just want to make a quick point there.

I want to highlight what Joe Biden did that was different. He actually attacked the purveyors of misinformation, and not the unvaccinated in this speech. And that's a key distinction here. We can't attack the people out there who are falling prey to these people. But we should -- we should -- and kudos to the surgeon general, the current surgeon general, who put out an advisory on misinformation.

We should attack those people who are out there spreading lies and harming other people.

CABRERA: What more can be done, though? Because the problem is, that has not worked. Just calling it out has not worked up to this point.

And, Dr. Adams, this really started in the last administration that you were part of, with this conservative narrative that you shouldn't trust science for some reason. So, what more can be done to reach that group that has bought into those lies?

ADAMS: Well, that's a great question.

And one of the things we need to do is find other people out there who can be representatives, who can be purveyors of positive information. And I'll just be honest with you. I have told the White House -- many people from the last administration have said to the White House, we want to help you. And we have been told, we don't want your help.

So they want to try to reach conservative by only putting out there voices...

CABRERA: Who told you that?

ADAMS: I don't want to get into that.

But I will tell you, they don't want to work with people who are on the other side of the aisle. And that is a problem. That is something that they could be doing more of is reaching out to more conservatives to get positive messages out there. They could also be putting out more PSAs. So you saw me, Birx, Fauci, Redfield on TV, on the Internet all the time when we were in the thick of the COVID pandemic. There's more they could be doing to put out positive messages combating that misinformation.

And we're all still wondering, where all these PSAs that we could and should be seeing talking about how vaccines don't cause infertility, talking about how vaccines actually help mothers have a safe and healthy pregnancy, talking about how you should still get vaccinated even if you have had COVID before?

We need -- there's more we could be doing to actually combat that misinformation in a productive way, instead of just pointing fingers.

CABRERA: Dr. Hotez, we heard the president say get vaccinated. He said, if you're not vaccinated, you have reason to be concerned. Those are primarily the people who are hospitalized. Those are the majority of the deaths that we're seeing, again, deaths climbing above 1,000 currently.

And he said how critical boosters are. He emphasized how children should get vaccinated, because there's been a lot of misinformation around that as well.

Bottom line here, Dr. Hotez, do you think this speech will get more people to get vaccinated?

HOTEZ: I think it may make some incremental difference.

But here's the bottom line of -- and I have been going up against anti-vaccine groups for 20 years because I have a daughter with autism and wrote a book a few years back called "Vaccines Did Not Cause Rachel's Autism," which has made me public enemy number one or two from anti-vaccine groups, so I know them quite well.

And here's now -- it's gotten to the point, because of inaction, federal inaction for the last 20 years, that since June 1, we have had 200,000 Americans who refused to get vaccinated and lost their lives. Anti-science aggression is now probably one of the leading killers of young adults in the United States.

I'll say that, again. Anti-science aggression, disinformation is now one of the leading killers of Americans. And I have been pleading with administrations. This goes back to the Bush administration, the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and this one.

And the answer has always been, Peter, we're not talking about it now because it'll give it oxygen.

And that's why we're at today -- even now, the Biden administration refuses to do anything about it. They basically pointed fingers at the social media companies, at Facebook. And, of course, they have a role in disseminating it. But they have not had the appetite to go after those who are generating the disinformation and the aggression.

And we know who they are. There's a dozen