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NYT: Jan. 6 Committee Weighs Criminal Referrals Of Trump, Others; Omicron Triggers A Scramble For Tests As Cases Soar In NY. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 21, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: -- had the appetite to go after those who are generating the disinformation and the aggression.

[15:30:07]

And we know who they are. There's a dozen of non-governmental groups identified by the Center for Countering Digital Hate. Isn't it amazing, we have to have an organization called the Center for Counter Digital Hate? That's monetizing the Internet, responsible for it.

We have -- look at the CPAC conference. We have members of the United States Congress saying vaccines are nothing more than political instruments of control. First, they're going to vaccinate you, then they're going to take away your guns and your bibles. And as ridiculous as that sound to us, there's a quarter of the country who believes it.

We have this amplified every night on the conservative news outlets.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Yeah.

HOTEZ: And they have cultivated a whole cadre of contrarian pseudo intellectuals that go on podcast that are out there. There's some of them or even professor at Harvard and Stanford. This is a well-oiled, well-funded, well-organized political monster that has to be dealt with.

And what has to be done is the following: the Biden administration needs to stop keeping this within the office of the surgeon general, their health sector. HHS does not know what to do about this. What they've got to do is create an interagency task force that brings in Homeland Security, the Commerce Department, the Justice Department.

We have to bring in the State Department because now we know the Putin propaganda machine is using this as a wedge issue, and really take a hard look at how we dismantle the anti-vaccine, anti-science empire. And until we do that, that 200,000 number since June 1, I promise you, will double to 400,000 Americans dead within the next couple of months.

HOTEZ: I know how passionate you are about this. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you.

Dr. Jerome Adams, thank you so much. And thank you as well, Gloria Borger, as always. Great discussion, guys, thank you.

Turning now to the insurrection, and former President Trump set to hold a news conference on the one-year anniversary of the Capitol attack, all while the January 6th committee is reportedly weighing possible criminal referrals for perhaps Trump and others in his inner circle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:32]

CABRERA: We are following several new developments in the investigation into the Capitol insurrection. "The New York Times" is reporting that the January 6th Committee is now examining whether there is enough evidence of possible criminal conduct by former President Trump and others that they could send to the Justice Department urging an investigation.

Let's bring in Astead Herndon. He's a CNN political analyst, and a national political reporter for "The New York Times."

So, "The Times" is reporting also that this committee plans to hold televised hearings as early as next year, and early next year. What kind of impact could that have?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, these are Democrats in Washington trying to set this as a narrative, and I think this is what we have seen consistently since January 6th. Members of the Democratic Party in Congress trying to push this on the forefront.

You know, this reporting comes from our colleagues in our Washington bureau I want to credit on this, who have made clear repeatedly how Democratic leadership sees this as an issue that can play well for the party.

They want to refocus Republican attacks on -- they want to refocus Republican narrative on where Donald Trump has shifted it. They think that's a winning issue for suburbs, they also think that is factually something that the party needs to get of the bottom of, that President Trump could possibly have a personal role in what we see coming out of those committee hearings.

And so this is again, a political act from Democrats that works alongside the legal track that they have set up since January 6th.

CABRERA: Meantime, former President Trump announced he's going to hold a news conference from Mar-a-Lago on January 6th. So there's this conflicting narrative, right, Trump looking back at 2020, not forward. I wonder how the Republican Party feels about that?

HERNDON: Yeah, exactly, and this is actually closer to what we have seen from Republicans since the 6th. You know, out in the rest of the country where folks like me spend our time, there has been a growing litmus test on the side of Republicans that has basically forced any Republican who wants to have a future going forward in the party to kind of say, to agree with Trump's false statements about election interference, to falsely say that the election was stolen, and to say that there is an open question of election integrity going forward. And that includes basically absolving those folks who stormed the capitol of January 6th of their unpatriotic, violent actions.

You know, I was at a rally in Virginia in the Glenn Youngkin-Terry McAuliffe race where a group of people said a pledge of allegiance to a flag that was reportedly at the Capitol on January 6th.

Among a certain set of Trump fans, January 6th has gone from being a moment of shame to a moment of pride, a moment that actually embodies something that they are willing to open and talk about, the view that they think Democrats are stealing lower case democracy from them, and they are not valid partners in democracy, that Trump was robbed of his rightful place in the -- in the White House.

And so, it's not surprised me that the central figure in that, the president who created such a groundswell of energy for these false claims will hold a rally on the 6th. This is a chance not only for him to draw a spotlight to raise money but to give the red meat to the base that they want.

I asked someone in Virginia, what is the number one thing you think people don't know about yourself as a Trump supporter? They could have said any issue, and this woman said to me, I think the election was stolen. That was the number one issue, her top priority, and that is the level which a lot of these are coming to this issue from.

CABRERA: Let's talk about President Biden's agenda and the Build Back Better bill.

[15:40:02]

Senate Democrats are going to hold a caucus meeting tonight, a virtual meeting. It's not clear if Senator Manchin will attend that.

But moments ago, the president still sounded optimistic on passing this plan. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, I want to get things done. I still think there's a possibility of getting Build Back Better done. What I don't want to do is get into -- and Joe went on TV today, I don't know if it was TV or not, I'm told he was speaking to a liberal caucus in the House, and said Joe Biden didn't mislead you, I misled you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Is this the case of the president being maybe overly optimistic or do you think Manchin and his fellow Democrats can put aside all the rancor and put the past in the past, and actually get this bill across the finish line?

HERNDON: Yeah, if I had insight into Joe Manchin's thinking, I would be a political bettor and not a reporter. I mean, from what we -- from what we know, this is something that's a sticking point for him from the jump. I mean, we know that he has wanted permanent programs, and not kind of a working kind of set group of temporary programs. This is something he has said consistently.

And so when he said on Fox News on Sunday sure sounded like a firm no, but Joe Biden and Joe Manchin have talked and the president seems to sound a note of optimism, saying he thinks these talks can continue going forward. Now, we know this has a lot of moving parts, this is going to require a progressive caucus, and others being willing to scale down their Build Back even further, particularly on things like the child tax credit.

It's going to require a White House being able to put public pressure on people like Joe Manchin, and to appease people who want to see that fight.

But I got to say, this is not just on Joe Manchin, it was Joe Biden, not Manchin, who was in South Carolina promising black communities to have their back after the primary. It was Joe Biden who promised to be more than just -- not Donald Trump throughout the general election.

And so, it will be Joe Biden who is held accountable to whether the fullness of this agenda happens or not. And so, that is why you're seeing progressives and others consistently trying to push now the White House to do more on executive actions, to do more on public speaking. They think that they need to demonstrate to the public that Democrats are willing to go past the niceties and the rhetoric and to find for their agenda even if it's against some in their own party.

Now, Biden at this point is still signaling that he wants -- he wants to work the inside game with Manchin, he thinks he'll come around, but that puts his trust at risk and that's a big political bet from the president.

CABRERA: More to come on this, no doubt.

Astead Herndon, thank you for joining us. Good to -- good to see you.

HERNDON: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, we will speak to a health care worker in a COVID hot spot that is not only seeing a surge in cases but also dealing with staffing shortages in hospitals, how the president's latest efforts could help them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:37]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

Nowhere is the COVID testing crunch being felt more than in New York City. Day after day, people there have been braving brutal winter temperatures, waiting in lines that snake around the block.

And CNN's Jason Carroll is on the scene. Jason, we've been checking in routinely with you in recent days. Even

just today alone, I know crow spent a lot of time there. The lines aren't getting any shorter. What's the outlook now?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first and foremost, you heard the president say that he's going to be sending in federal help to set up some of these testing sites. That's certainly going to be welcome news to New Yorkers who have been waiting sometimes an hour and a half to two hours. That's just today.

This site behind us here fin closing up shop. But across there, Ana, Steinway Avenue here in Astoria, Queens, they are wrapped around the block there, going down the block in that direction, trying to get a test.

But, again, federal help is on the way. All of this as COVID numbers across the city and state continue to rise. We're not seeing a rise in hospitalizations that's alarming medical experts, but still, we have been hearing from the mayor. We have been hearing from city officials who have been saying repeatedly that the best way to move forward for the city, not just the city but the country is for those who are unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: It's going to be a challenging few weeks. There's no question about it. We're seeing a big up surge in cases. Thankfully in general, they seem more mild, and thankfully our health care system is well-positioned in this city to deal with it. But it will be a tough few weeks, and we need to understand that, and we need to do everything possible to address that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Everything possible to address that. You know what that means, here in New York city, the mayor announced today that what he is offering at this point, the city is offering is a $100 incentive for anyone out there who's been vaccinated to get their booster shots so long as they get their booster shot at a city site, and they do it between now and January 31st -- Ana.

CABRERA: Jason Carroll, thank you for all your reporting today.

President Biden just announced his administration's plan to combat the winter COVID spread amid the rapid spread of this omicron variant. One of the initiatives includes sending military service members to help overwhelmed hospitals.

Dr. Lisa Hays is the chief medical officer at AdventHealth Shawnee Mission, which serves the Kansas City metropolitan area.

Dr. Hays, thank you so much for joining us.

First, what are you seeing at your hospitals and in your state?

DR. LISA HAYS, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, ADVENTHEALTH SHAWNEE MISSION: Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to join you today. I have to say that over the last month, we've seen a dramatic increase in our COVID numbers. Our low point in our numbers in the hospital was 12, active infections in mid-November. And since then, we've had a dramatic increase.

Today, we have 39 active infections. We have 10 individuals in the intensive care unit and most of those are ventilated.

CABRERA: And are these people with COVID specifically?

HAYS: These are all COVID, yes. And we're also seeing --

CABRERA: Is this different from what you've experienced? Forgive me. Go ahead.

HAYS: Yeah, we were also seeing a rise in our influenza admissions as well. So laying the two active infections on top of each other. We're seeing dramatic increases in our active infections.

CABRERA: Is this different from what you've experienced in previous surges?

HAYS: I'd say the rate of change seems to be much more rapid than what we saw a year ago, as well in August when we had the big delta surge. It seems to be happening much more rapidly.

CABRERA: How are you and your colleagues holding up?

HAYS: You know, we're doing the best we can. We have an organization that really emphasizes well-being. But the staff are feeling stretched. They're tired. You know, having to act as the eyes and ears for the family members who aren't able to come into the hospital because maybe the family members also have COVID, but they're hanging in there as best they can.

CABRERA: When you talk about all these people in the ICU with COVID on ventilators, are you finding that most of these patients are unvaccinated?

HAYS: Yes, most definitely. Typically about 70 percent to 90 percent of our active COVID patients are unvaccinated. And I just looked at the list, and it looks like all but two have not been vaccinated.

CABRERA: All but two? Wow. And when we heard the president address the nation at the top of this hour, I understand you had a chance to listen to what he had to say, laid out a number of steps his administration is taking in order to combat this pandemic, to increase testing and to help ease some of the burden on overwhelmed hospitals and health care workers.

Did anything you heard resonate with you? Did it bring you comfort or make you feel confidence in the plan?

HAYS: Well, first of all, I was excited to hear about the pledging of the troops to help in those areas that are struggling with staffing. We'll see whether we're one of those areas that benefits from that. I'm wondering if we can get someone to take some shifts tonight actually.

But I love the idea of more testing availability as well. Many people are approaching me wondering whether it's safe to be gathering with their families over the upcoming holidays and I'm trying to encourage them to be testing on the day of the gathering with a rapid home test and more availability of the rapid test will definitely be beneficial in helping reduce the spread of the COVID virus.

CABRERA: Absolutely, as well as vaccinations. We heard the president emphasize that if you are fully vaccinated, especially if you are boosted and you're getting together with other people who are in that same boat, it is safe to move forward with holiday plans and to gather with those close family members.

We've been hearing more conversations around how to handle positive cases, particularly people who may be asymptomatic, but still test positive. And when it comes to health care workers in particular, because of staffing shortages, this has come up.

We heard from disease expert, infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm this morning, saying that he thinks some health care workers should stay on the front lines, even if they're infected. Again, that's if they're vaccinated and feel willing enough to be at a patient's bedside.

What do you think about this?

HAYS: You know, I would say that we would have to evaluate that from a safety measure with our infection control group. You know, we want to definitely keep our patients all safe. We want to keep our immuno compromised patients safe as well as our other staff safe. So we'd have to evaluate that further before we come up with a policy.

CABRERA: Dr. Lisa Hays, really appreciate you taking the time today. Thank you for all you do and to your colleagues as well. We're sending you strength. Hang in there. Thank you for being there for us.

HAYS: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

CABRERA: You bet.

HAYS: The Bidens welcoming a new first pooch. Ahead, we'll introduce you to the new "Commander" in the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:59:38]

CABRERA: There's a new puppy in the Biden White House. The president tweeting this introduction to Commander.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hey, pal. How are you doing? How are you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The purebred German shepherd was a birthday gift for President Biden from his brother. And Commander was spotted playing on the south lawn yesterday. The Bidens' beloved German shepherd Champ died in June at the age 13. There are other German shepherd, a rescue named Major has been living mostly in Wilmington, Delaware, after a handful of aggressive incidents involving staff at the White House and the Bidens say they plan to add a cat to their growing four-legged family some time early next year.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.