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Studies Suggest Omicron Less Severe Than Feared; Biden: "Haven't Given Up" on Build Back Better Plan; Putin Blames West For Growing Tensions with Ukraine. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 23, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:41]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Christmas Eve eve. Good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

Despite its fast spread across the U.S., here is the good news this holiday season: new studies, several of them, show that the omicron coronavirus variant may be less likely to send you to the hospital and it may cause less severe illness than previous strains of the virus.

Right now, omicron has been detected in all 50 U.S. states, as expected. It accounts now and very quickly for at least 90 percent of new COVID infections in the U.S. still, Americans are keeping their holiday plans and the president and public health officials say that is safe for we should note the vaccinated.

Today is expected to be one of the busiest travel days of the holiday season. We just learned the TSA screened more air travelers yesterday than at the same time in 2019. Of course, before the pandemic. We're also seeing, though, big lines for COVID tests across the country.

Last night, President Biden responded to criticism that the U.S. did not get those tests out quickly enough, that it wasn't prepared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: We hear this over and over again, empty shelves, no test kits. Is that a failure?

JOE BIDEN, PRESDIENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't think it's a failure. I think it's a -- you could argue that we should have known a year ago, six months ago, two months ago, a month ago. It's possible there could be other variants that come along, that's possible. But what do you plan for? You plan for what you think is available,

that is the most likely threat that exists at the time, and you respond to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: President Biden reiterated that the best defense is to get vaccinated. That's what the doctors, public health officials are saying as well. If you're already vaccinated, get boosted because the booster shots give you extra protection against omicron. For those who do get infected, the FDA has authorized the first pill

to treat COVID-19 infections. It is shown to reduce the risk for hospitalization and death by 88 percent. I mean just amazing results there.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen and CNN correspondent Larry Madowo are following all of the developments here and internationally.

Elizabeth, let's begin with you. These studies have been coming in for a couple of weeks now and we have a wave of them over the last several days that show a lower risk of hospitalization with omicron than compared to delta.

Should Americans take these findings as encouraging?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So I'd rather see these findings than other findings, right? It's good that we're seeing the hospitalizations are less common, but it doesn't mean you throw all caution to the wind and say, okay, so this is just a cold.

That's not the case. People are still being hospitalized. Also, we need to protect people who may not have been as well protected by their vaccines, elderly people or people with compromised immune systems. They could get hit by omicron very hard.

Let's take a look at results of a study, for example, that was done in Scotland. So in Scotland, they found a two-thirds reduction in hospital risk when compared to when the delta variant was dominant and they also founding the booster w linked to a 57 percent reduction in the risk of symptomatic infections. So, again, just emphasizing how useful the booster can be in this situation.

So, really, the advice is still the same. We're happy to see this data, of course, but still get vaccinated if you haven't been, get boosted if it's time for your turn, if it's time to get boosted, and do the common-sense approaches about masking and social distancing -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, let's go to South Africa now and Larry Madowo because South Africa, of course, is where omicron was first detected in long numbers. What's amazing, Larry, when you hear from doctors and public health officials there is how quickly this seems to have peaked there and cases and new infections are already coming down. What are you finding?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Jim. I spent most of this month reporting in South Africa at the height of this crisis and now for the first time I'm seeing a lot of south African scientists, epidemiologists, virologists now confident enough to say they think South Africa has passed the peak of the omicron wave and they think the numbers are reducing.

And that's largely because in the epicenter of this outbreak was in the province of Gauteng.

[09:05:05]

That includes the popular city of Johannesburg, and now, their daily average cases have reduced significantly and they're confident enough to say this is past the peak. And they're not just seeing this from the province of Gauteng, also think this is the same several other South African provinces.

So, there are two explanations. You had an epidemiologist on yesterday who told you one of the reasons that they think because it spread so fast in the community, a lot of people got natural infection because they got natural immunity from being infected and the vaccination numbers have increased in South Africa. And so, they think this is a good clue for the rest of the world, that if this South African example is anything to go by, that the omicron variant will be less severe. So fewer people in hospital and fewer people dying, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Let's hope that bears up here. Certainly good news.

So, Elizabeth, for those who do get infected, the FDA has authorized another treatment, the first pill to treat COVID-19, highly effective. How long until it's widely available?

COHEN: You know, we don't know exactly when those first shipments will go out. I will say all of these COVID drugs that we've seen and the vaccines, they are distributed by the U.S. government. You can't buy them on your own. Sometimes, it's taken a while to get these out.

But let's talk first about the results of the clinical trial. So what Pfizer did with this pill is they took 2,000 people and half of them were given a placebo, which is a drug that does nothing. That half, 66 of them ended up in the hospital and 12 of them died.

But the 1,000 people who got COVID who got the pill 8 were hospitalized and nobody died. But the first is you've got to take this early, within five days, which means you need to test and we know there have been struggles with testing.

Also as you mentioned distribution. Let's talk about that for a minute. The White House says they purchased 10 million courses of treatment, in other words, enough for 10 million people. In January, 265,000 of them will be available and by late summer, they say the full amount will be available. Utah, interestingly enough, is just one state that's come out and said we will be getting enough for 400 people in the initial allocation. That's obviously -- 440. That's quite a small number.

SCIUTTO: All right. These are good developments. We know you'll continue to send us the data, Elizabeth Cohen, Larry Madowo, thanks so much.

So, here to discuss, bigger picture, emergency medical physician and medical director at the Baylor College of medicine, Dr. Regina Bicette McCain.

Nice to have you back, Doctor.

DR. REGINA BICETTE MCCAIN, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Good morning.

SCIUTTO: So, I know you've been watching these studies very closely. Three new studies showing omicron has a lower risk of hospitalization compared to delta. Are you encouraged by these findings?

BICETTE: I'm somewhat encouraged, Jim, but I do want to say that with a caveat. Omicron spreads so quickly amongst the community that even though there is a chance that the disease may be milder, the caseloads potentially could be so high that that would still put a strain on our hospital system. So, milder disease is not the only thing that gives me pause.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, and it's a math problem here, right? More folks, even though it's a lower percentage, that still could be trouble for ICUs and so on which are already still overwhelmed. I do want to ask about the direction of this latest surge, because when you look to South African Africa where it came first, it went up very quickly but also came down very quickly. I wondering if you see the same likely trajectory here in the U.S. Yes, it will spread very quickly, take over as the dominant variant, but does that portend a quicker surge?

MCCAIN: It's really hard to say because even before we were in the throes of omicron and it became the dominant variant in the United States, we are still dealing with very high case numbers from delta. Cases were surging in the Midwest and Northeast before we discovered omicron.

So even if that peaks quickly, those numbers start to die down, I wondering if there are still going to be significant cases of delta that we have to contend with.

SCIUTTO: Okay. There are a lot of folks watching right now who are either on their way or thinking about being on their way to either travel or to keep their holiday plans. Help them understand how to process this, because a couple of weeks ago folks were concerned omicron is so serious we may not be able to do anything.

That's not the advice. The president is not saying that, Dr. Fauci is not saying that, local public health officials as well.

So should folks take this as at least encouraging to say, if you're vaccinated, it's okay to keep those holiday plans?

MCCAIN: Well, if you're vaccinated, you're still at risk from omicron. Being vaccinated and boosted is actually your best chance of combating this particular strain of COVID. There is no blanket answer for holiday travel and holiday gathering plans.

[09:10:02]

If you are going to be around other people, that in and of itself poses a risk of contracting COVID-19.

There are low-risk situations and things that you can do to considerably lower your chances of contracting the virus such as making sure the gatherings are small, less than ten people, only from two or three households. Try to see if you can get testing done before people gather. If possible, make sure that everyone coming is vaccinated, if not vaccinated and boosted.

SCIUTTO: So on that testing question because you raised that, a lot of friends and colleagues have asked me, hey, if we are getting together, should I ask people coming over to get a test, right? Or tell my family members it's a good idea that everybody get a test within a couple of days of meeting. Would you recommend that to patients who ask you?

MCCAIN: Absolutely. If you have access to at-home testing and can get tests for everyone before they gather, that of course would create the safest scenario. The problem is right now that access to testing is an issue. A lot of major retailers are even limiting the amount of at- home tests that people can buy.

SCIUTTO: And the White House plan is not taking effect until next month after the holidays.

Dr. Regina Bicette McCain, thanks so much for joining us. We hope you and your family have happy holidays.

MCCAIN: Thank you, Jim. Happy holidays.

SCIUTTO: Early next month, the Supreme Court will hear legal arguments to challenges to the Biden administration's vaccine mandates for health care workers and private businesses. The urgency comes as lower courts are split on the issue so far.

The mandate for large employers would impact some 80 million workers. The requirement for health care workers who cover more than 10 million. Now, the court is leaving in place the status quo. The White House says it is confident in the legal authority for the mandates. Those arguments are set for January 7th.

Still ahead, President Biden says he is not giving up on Build Back Better and it's not just the short-term fight he's considering. What he's saying about a 2024 rematch potentially with Trump.

Plus, this morning the Russian president says it's impossible to have good relations with Ukraine. Hear Vladimir Putin's disturbing message to NATO as well.

And later, two retired generals will join me live with a stark warning for this country. Why they say the military has to be prepared and act now to prevent another insurrection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:09]

SCIUTTO: Just in to CNN inflation is rising at the fastest pace in nearly four decades in this country. The consumer price index jumped 5.7 percent in the 12 months that ended in November. That's the biggest jump since 1982. Perhaps gives ammunition to those, Joe Manchin among them, who say that the Build Back Better act might add to inflation by pumping more money into the economy.

President Biden disagrees. He says the legislation would make inflation better, not worse. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I still think we'll be able to get a significant amount of what we need to get done, done.

MUIR: The Fed just indicated they might have to raise interest rates up to three times in the coming year just to slow things down. That sounds like Americans should be prepared for potentially more pain before this gets better.

BIDEN: If we don't pass Build Back Better, I think you're right. But if we do, 17 Nobel laureates in the economy said it's going to bring down inflation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN's Joe Johns joins us now from the White House.

Joe, it's a wide-ranging interview from Build Back Better, very immediate challenge for this president, but right up to his plans for 2024.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's for sure. And he keeps the optimism high, doesn't he? Optimistic on a number of fronts, including the idea of running for re-election.

Now, the president says he plans to be in the race even though his numbers have tanked, his approval numbers have tanked, even though he was the oldest president to take the oath of office. He does say if Donald Trump is in the race, he's planning to run too.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: But look, I'm a great respecter of fate. Fate has intervened in my life many, many times. If I'm in the health I'm in now, if I'm in good health, then in fact I would run again.

MUIR: And if that means a rematch against Donald Trump?

BIDEN: You're trying to tempt me now. Sure. Why would I not run against Donald Trump or any nominee? That would increase the prospect of running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: You know, in the last race, he really held himself out as the Donald Trump candidate, the guy who was uniquely suited to run against Donald Trump. And what this does set up is the possibility that we'll all be watching to see whether there is a rematch, including people who could be possible contenders waiting to see whether these two men run again.

Jim, back to you.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll be watching as we get closer. Joe Johns at the White House, thanks so much.

JOHNS: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Russian President Vladimir Putin making disturbing comments in public today in his annual news conference. He is blaming the Ukrainian government saying it's the one preparing for war and a military operation despite the fact that Russia has amassed tens of thousands of troops along the border. He also says the ball is in NATO's court when it comes to de-escalating the situation there.

Melissa Bell ,he has been listening in from Moscow.

Melissa, you listened to Putin's comments and it sounds like he's in effect making a public case for Russian military action in Ukraine.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. In a case to the Russian people specifically, you really heard him lay out the justification there might be foreign intervention, the nature of the Russian-speaking people who found themselves in Ukraine after the carve-out of the Soviet Union. But that was very much for his domestic audience.

For the rest of us really what we heard was him laying the blame for the current tensions around Ukraine squarely at the feet of Kiev, first of all, saying that he had the impression that some kind of military operation in the east of the country was being planned and linking that to the sanctions that are being threatened by the West, saying, look, the West is saying to us, if you intervene and if you help these people in the East, there will be war and perhaps there's a suggestion there that there will be.

[09:20:13]

He also spoke to those forthcoming talks, the ones we now know that will be held in January between NATO, the United States and Russia. They could be mediated, we learned during that nearly 4-hour conference, by Italy. And he laid out some of his thinking, saying when he was asked if Russia would invade Ukraine, he would not depend on the course of the negotiations, rather whether the West would give Russia its guarantees that NATO would not progress with any eastward expansion of its borders.

Now, to have a listen to the tone that he struck and the analogies that he raised, it was an interesting press conference, Jim.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): How would the Americans react if we placed domiciles on the border between Canada and the United States or on the Mexican border? Not a single inch to the east, they told us in the '90s. And what do you know, they cheated. They just deceived us blatantly. Five ways of NATO expansion, and there you go, now in Romania and Poland, weapon systems appear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: Now that really speaks to some of the fears we've heard the Russian president speak about these last few days, specifically the idea that should that eastward expansion of NATO continue, and you heard there his deep distrust for anything NATO or Western leaders had to say on this issue, then they might be faced with the possibility of weapon systems in Ukraine on the doorstep of Russia. That clearly unacceptable to the Russian leader.

So an interesting insight into what he's been thinking even as he builds up his troops on the Ukrainian border -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. Of course, NATO's response has been that's up to NATO and those countries, not to Russia. We'll see where the negotiations go. Melissa bell in Moscow, thanks so much.

Now to a CNN exclusive. New reporting, U.S. intelligence agencies have determined Saudi Arabia is now building ballistic missiles and the U.S. believes China is helping them do that.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is helping break the story this morning. Natasha, this is remarkable collaboration between effectively a U.S. friend and ally and what the U.S. views as its primary challenger now, China.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right, Jim. What intelligence sources are telling my colleague Zach Cohen as well as satellite imagery is that Saudi Arabia has begun to produce its own ballistic missiles. Now, this is an escalation from 2019 when CNN first reported that Saudi Arabia was just buying these ballistic missiles from China. Now it appears that they are actually able to make them on their own.

U.S. officials have been briefed in recent months on the transfer of large-scale ballistic missile technology from China to Saudi Arabia. The satellite images are adding to the picture because what researchers have seen is that they're operating burn pits at a facility in Saudi Arabia indicating that right now they are producing these ballistic missiles.

Now, obviously this poses a big challenge to the Biden administration even though it began under the Trump administration because it could have significant ripple effects across the Middle East. Not the least because of Iran and its ballistic missile program. Iran, of course, is a major adversary and rival of Saudi Arabia.

So Saudi Arabia is producing its own ballistic missiles. The question is will the U.S. be able to convince the Iranians give up their ballistic missile program. The answer, of course, is very unlikely, but the administration is considering options about how to respond to this program.

SCIUTTO: It's a regional arms race the U.S. has dreaded for some time. Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much. Still ahead this hour, the committee investigating the January 6

insurrection now wants to speak with Republican Congressman Jim Jordan. Why they think he should be willing and how text messages could be the focus. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:32]

SCIUTTO: Congressman and staunch Trump ally Jim Jordan says he is reviewing the letter from the committee investigating January 6 which requested that he voluntarily come in for an interview. It is considered highly unlikely he'll sit down with the panel. Jordan was one of the lawmakers who sent a text, now in the committee's possession, to then White House chief of staff Mark Meadows during the insurrection, which included a theory for how the government might be overturned, the election might be overturned.

CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid joins me now.

So why does the committee believe Jordan should be willing, even if that's considered something of a long shot?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: A long shot indeed, Jim. Well, in their letter to Jordan, the committee has several reasons for wanting to talk to him. First, he was in touch with former president Trump several times and he was involved in efforts to challenge the 2020 election outcome.

As you just noted, the committee has previously revealed that on January 5th, Jordan forwarded a text to then White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows with a legal theory about how then Vice President Mike Pence could block the certification of election results. That forwarded text said in part that Pence should call out all electoral votes that he believes are unconstitutional as no electoral votes at all.

Now, despite all this, Jordan has previously told CNN he doesn't think he has anything to worry about. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You had conversations with him (ph) going up to January 6th.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): But I have conversations with the president all the time.

RAJU: Uh-huh, but they said, if they asked you --