Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

FDA Authorizes Second Pill To Treat COVID-19; Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) Says He Is Reviewing January 6 Panel's Letter Seeking Interview; Biden Says He Intends To Run For Re-Election. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired December 23, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

We are following breaking news this morning and it's some good news, a second pill to treat COVID-19, a pill the Food and Drug Administration announcing they gave Merck's antiviral pill the green light just one day after the Pfizer pill was given the okay as well. All of this as new studies are showing that the omicron variant may be less likely to send you to the hospital, also less likely to cause severe illness than previous strains of the virus. That's good news.

Despite that, it is still spreading fast across the country. As expected, omicron has been detected in all 50 U.S. states. It accounts for at least 90 percent of new infections here. It happened very quickly.

Last night, President Biden responded to questions as to whether he was prepared enough for this new wave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you go to the pharmacy, we hear this over and over again, empty shelves, no test kits. Is that a failure?

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: No, I don't think it's a failure. I think it's -- you could argue that we should have known a year ago, six months ago, two months ago, a month ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, it is good to hear about omicron, particularly as the holidays start.

Let's begin with CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. So, Elizabeth, let's start with the treatments now. So now we have two pills, the latest one a Moderna pill, to treat folks who are infected. Do we know how effective it is and how soon someone would have to take it? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We do know, Jim. So, this new pill from Merck, it is quite effective, and in the clinical trials, people got it within five days. So, it has to be done very quickly, just like the Pfizer pill that you and I talked about in the last hour.

So, what's amazing is that there's two pills. There were no pills before. If you had early COVID, you couldn't just go call your doctor and then go to the pharmacy, pick up a prescription. With these pills, in time, you will be able to.

So, let's take a look at the clinical trial results that Merck got with this pill, which is called Mulnopiravir. So, they took hundreds of patients, split them in half, half of them got a placebo, everyone had COVID. And at the end of the month, 68 people who got a placebo, a drug that does nothing, ended up in the hospital and nine of them died. Folks who were lucky enough to get Mulnopiravir, 48 of them ended up in the hospital and one of them died.

Now, I will note that a team of FDA advisers, they barely passed this drug. The vote was 13-10. A lot of it was because of concerns about pregnant women. Just because of the way this drugs work, there are concerns about safety for an unborn fetus. And so that was the vote for the FDA advisory committee. They wanted to see more data, but now we see that the FDA has given it a green light.

Also another caveat, which is that this has to be shipped out quickly, we don't know how quickly the government can get it out. And remember, you have to take this pill within really just days of having COVID. So, that means you need to have a positive COVID test, and you were talking about how difficult it can be to find testing. So, hopefully that will improve so this pill will be more useful. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And as you said, of course, it's a Merck pill. I said Moderna. It's Merck.

All right, we also have this other new data from both the U.K. and South Africa where omicron hit earlier, and it's showing a lower risk of hospitalization from those infected with omicron. I mean, it's a relief to hear, frankly. Tell us how far and broad this data is.

COHEN: It is encouraging. It doesn't mean we're out of the woods, but definitely we would rather see this than the opposite.

So, let's take a look at what they found in South Africa. They looked at hospitalization risks in October and November with omicron, 2.5 percent of the people who got omicron it ended up in the hospital. With delta, 12.8 percent who got delta ended up being admitted to the hospital. So, that's obviously a big difference.

If we look at the study in Scotland, they found a two-thirds reduction in hospitalization risk with omicron and importantly found that a booster was linked to a 57 percent reduction in risk of symptomatic infections.

[10:05:010] So, in other words, get vaccinated if you haven't already. That will help you against omicron. The differences are like night and day. And if you're more than six months past your second vaccination, go get yourself a booster. Jim?

SCIUTTO: It's been consistent from the doctors, get vaccinated and get the booster. We're just going to keep saying it.

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: I want to speak now to Dr. Ngozi Ezike, the director of the Illinois Department of Health. I wonder if you could begin on, for you, at the frontline level of treating the COVID outbreak, what difference does it make now to have these antiviral pills, two of them, to help treat the infected.

DR. NGOZI EZIKE, DIRECTOR, ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: We know that this is another game changer after a number-one game changer, which are the vaccines and boosting. So, we know that people are getting infected at high rates with this more transmissible variant. Our numbers are sky rocketing here in Illinois, as they are across the country. And being able to have something that is oral, so easy, easier than giving an I.V. infusion that you can get before you get to the hospital, that will help decompress the hospitals and save lives.

SCIUTTO: So, you're seeing this data as well I know about several international studies from countries that have been hit by omicron before us, and it's showing that, yes, it spreads quickly but doesn't cause as severe illness and, therefore, doesn't send as many people to the hospital. I don't want to minimize where you are because I know that at the ICU level, you're still flooded with a lot of cases, but are you encouraged by what you're seeing in the data?

EZIKE: No. I will take any bit of good news that there is at this time of the year, but just remembering a population of -- in our state of almost 13 million people, there are still plenty of people that, if they were infected, even if it's a smaller percentage, that's still enough to overwhelm all of our hospitals. So, we just need to keep people from going in there.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about the administration's response so far, not about the politics, about what tools have been put into your hands to prepare for something like this. And one of the key criticisms as you know is the availability of tests. I mean, you're seeing long lines in places like New York and elsewhere. The administration has a plan, but it's really not going the kick in until next month, right, after the holidays and perhaps maybe the worst of some of omicron. In your view, in terms of the support you need, did the White House not react quickly enough?

EZIKE: No. You know, this came on very quickly with the omicron and how quickly it spreads. We have a great testing infrastructure here in Illinois, and I hope that many other states have built that infrastructure. So, we're seeing record numbers of people testing. We have community-based testing sites that are available throughout the state from local health departments to state-run sites. And I am glad to see that people having the home-based tests fly off the shelf. You understand the importance of the testing. SCIUTTO: Now, you know better than me that the guidance remains the

same, get vaccinated, get boosted. Those are everyone's best protections, including other simple things, like wearing a mask in close spaces, et cetera. Are you seeing any movement among the folks that still resist all that, the folks who are vaccine hesitant, resistant, folks who just don't believe this is real? Are you seeing the data reality puncturing that bubble or not?

EZIKE: Yes, I think we are. I mean, it's incremental, but every extra jab counts. And we are seeing that even in the 65-plus population, which was highly vaccinated to start, there's still, you know, a percentage that haven't. In Illinois we're getting at least 1,500 a day that are going to get that first shot. So, people are making the decision. It's slow, but every shot counts and we're encouraging people to still make that choice.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's good to hear about that progress. Dr. Ngozi Ezike, thanks so much for your help and we wish you the best of luck and a happy holidays, if you can get a break in there.

EZIKE: Thanks so much, Jim, same to you.

SCIUTTO: Well, in New York, nearly 29,000 new infections were reported just yesterday. That's another record for state, even more than the depths of the pandemic early on. Most of those cases, not surprisingly, in New York City, a big, concentrated population.

CNN Correspondent Shimon Prokupecz, he is at a city-run testing facility in Times Square. And, Shimon, we've been talking to you most days this week and we see the lines. Is anything easing up a little bit, particularly as centers like that one you're at get set up?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm going to show you here, Jim, where we are in Times Square. This is a city-run site, and it's really not. Some of these people have been in line for about two hours, over two hours in some cases, and it's cold here today.

[10:10:06]

So, you can imagine it's been a rough morning for some. They're getting creative. Some of them brought hand warmers, feet warmers so they're staying warm.

But I want to show you, the line stretches all the way over here, north to about -- this is 48th Street, and then it wraps around the corner. And like I said, people have been standing here for well over two hours. It's been open since about 9:00 A.M. So, the lines are still going.

As you said, the state is seeing a high level, a staggering number of cases, 29,000, half of those, more than half of those here in New York City. So, what the city is doing obviously is they're opening more sites. But the other thing they're doing is at-home test kits. They are available. I just walked into this test site and they handled me this at-home test kit. It gives you about two tests. They're very hard to get in stores. The city is giving them out for free at this site here and at other sites across the city.

If you are not being seen here today, if they are not giving you the test, the rapid test or the PCR test, they will handle this to you and you can go home and do this. It's two tests. But, obviously, many people who are traveling, going to see family, wanting that better test, wanting that PCR test and wanting a rapid test. And that's why we're seeing this line and lines like this all across the city.

The other thing, Jim, just to point out, Times Square, questions about whether or not they're going to allow crowds and where that stands, we're waiting to hear from the mayor on that. He seemed optimistic yesterday. We'll see where he stands today. He said he's going to give an answer before Christmas.

SCIUTTO: I've used that very test you're holding, if that's what you can get. It's certainly better than nothing. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the Supreme Court will take up challenges next month to President Biden's vaccine mandates for health care workers and private businesses. How it could rule on the White House's legal authority to require vaccines.

Plus, the January 6th committee wants to speak to Congressman Jim Jordan about his conversations with former president trump in the very midst of the violent attack on the Capitol. Will he agree to a conversation? He's getting it from the Congress he serves.

SCIUTTO: And public outcry after a Colorado truck driver is sentenced to 110 years after a fatal crash. Why the governor's office is now reviewing that case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: The House select committee investigating January 6th now wants to speak to Republican Congressman Jim Jordan. The panel asked him to meet voluntarily, also provide information on his communications with former President Trump in the very midst of the deadly Capitol attack. Jordan has been identified as one of the previously unnamed lawmakers who texted then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in and around the insurrection. Jordan says he has concerns about the committee and somehow accused them of altering documents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We're going to review the letter. But I've got to be honest with you, I have got real concerns about any committee that will take a document and alter it and present it to the American people, completely mislead the American people, like they did last week. And it turns out it looks like it wasn't just one document they did with this, it was other text messages as well. So, I got real concerns with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us live on Capitol Hill. What's he talking about there?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's contending that the text messages that had been at issue that he says that perhaps they were taken out of context. But the question -- those are text messages that he had exchanged with Mark Meadows on January 6th. Now, there are still some questions about exactly his conversations with Donald Trump as well. And that's what the committee wants to get to the bottom of. The question, of course, will be will Jim Jordan cooperate. He did not say whether or not he would accept this request, it's not a subpoena yet, but a request to come and talk to this committee.

You have seen other Trump allies, like Congressman Scott Perry, who is the Republican congressman, who has thus far been targeted by the committee, reject the panel's efforts to get him to testify. And the question will be if Jordan also rejects this request, how far will the committee go? Will they issue a subpoena? And then how will he respond to such an effort to compel him to testify? And if that leads to another standup, how far will the committee go in trying to pursue contempt charges against a sitting congressman, something that could be very difficult to charge in court.

But, nevertheless, Jordan for some time has maintained that he has nothing to hide. I've spoken to him about this multiple times, including in July when I asked him about the committee potentially calling him as a witness, and he said he'd be willing to talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: You had conversations with him in the run-up to January 6th.

JORDAN: Yes. But I have conversations with the president all the time.

RAJU: But if they said -- if they asked you to come, you would say --

JORDAN: Yes, if they called me. I got nothing to hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: He said they called me, I've got nothing to hide. Now, the question will be what will happen now. The other issue here involving Jim Jordan is that he is set to become the chairman of the House Judiciary if the Republicans take the House majority next year, which is a very likely scenario at this point. And if he becomes judiciary chairman, undoubtedly, he will be issuing subpoenas after subpoena for a range of investigations. And he wants to pursue. So, the precedent could be an interesting one for him to set here.

So, Jim, it just remains -- this process will play out for some time. How far will the committee go, how far would Jordan go, or will they reach any sort of accommodation, big questions in the year ahead.

SCIUTTO: And to be clear, Manu, the texts he's claiming were taken out of context. These are texts that discussed ways to reject the results, the electoral counts from states that Trump lost, correct?

[10:20:05]

RAJU: Yes, exactly. And we need to hear the full conversation from Jordan himself about why he believes this was taken out of context, but that's his contention at the moment.

SCIUTTO: Manu Raju on the Hill. Thanks very much.

Well, President Biden is calling for accountability for the January 6th insurrection. In a new interview with ABC News, he also answered a question about whether he would be up for a rematch with Donald Trump in 2024. Have a listen to his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: But, look, I'm a great respecter of fate. Fate has intervened in my life many, many times. If I'm in the health I'm in now, if I'm in good health, then, in fact, I would run again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if that means a rematch against Donald Trump?

BIDEN: You're trying to tempt me now. Sure. Why would I not run against Donald Trump being the nominee? That would increase the prospect of running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, CNN Political Analyst Sabrina Siddiqui, White House Reporter for The Wall Street Journal, and Margaret Talev, she's the managing editor of Axios. Good to have you both.

Margaret, let me ask you this. I mean, there's so much talk about challengers both to Biden within the Democratic Party, what does Kamala Harris do, et cetera, and on the Republican side as well, but the fact is Biden is president. Trump is still the overwhelming choice of most Republicans. I mean, is a Biden/Trump rematch frankly the most likely scenario in 2024?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, Jim, pending other developments that haven't happened yet, you have to default to yes there. But I think it's interesting that Biden decided to answer that question himself rather than leave this to staff. And I think the reasons why are also interesting to think about and to examine, one, you've seen all the speculation about is Pete Buttigieg in a better position than Kamala Harris, that the vice president and President Biden haven't talked about 2024 yet, and that set off a whole lot of coverage. And I think the president is trying to avoid that.

The other thing that's true is that at the start of the Biden presidency, we were hearing from Trump aides and Trump supporters that whether Biden ran again or not could be a decisive factor for Trump because Biden would be the hardest to beat. I've heard that that's true. I think, you know, we'll know as we see what the economy does, what COVID does. That may not be Donald Trump's central concern or factor anymore.

SCIUTTO: Yes. He's watching those approval ratings, I'm sure. Sabrina Siddiqui, Build Back Better already a challenge or pieces of Build Back Better, but Biden in his interview yesterday on the issue of voting rights said he does support a carve-out on voting rights so you could pass it with fewer than 60 votes, just 50 votes. But, as you know, Joe Manchin not on board for that, at least not publicly yet. Where does that stand as a realistic option for Democrats on voting rights?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the reality is that a filibuster carve-out is the only way that Democrats would be able to advance legislation on voting rights because there simply are not 60 votes there in the Senate. And any efforts to reach some kind of compromise have so far failed. And there's been increasing pressure on the Biden administration as well as congressional Democrats to get something done here, especially as you've seen Republican-led states across the country pass laws to restrict ballot access, and many of those laws disproportionately impact minorities and other voters who are more likely to support Democrats in elections.

And you might -- of course, we recall that President Biden at a CNN town hall in October first signaled that he was open to altering the filibuster perhaps on voting rights and other issues. And since then, we haven't heard much about it. But especially as you get into a midterm election year where it's harder, in general, to pass legislation, that's going to be a big question, is with the prospect of this being as it is for the last year where Democrats have both majorities in Congress and will they be willing to do away with the filibuster to get more of President Biden's agenda passed?

SCIUTTO: Okay. Margaret, there's been a lot of discussion act Joe Manchin's future in the Democratic Party and perhaps a little bit trolling, to some degree, or maybe teasing by Mitch McConnell, saying we'd love to have him in the Republican Party. But Ron Brownstein made a good point to me. He said, the moment Manchin leaves the Democrats, he's no longer the swing vote, right? He's one of many. And I wonder if you, in terms of reality checking this, see him going to the Republican Party or even going to be an independent who caucuses with Democrats as a realistic possibility.

TALEV: Jim, I think this is mostly trolling from everything we hear from Senator Manchin's closest supporters and what he said publicly.

[10:25:04] They don't expect him to leave the Democratic Party and they certainly don't expect him to become a Republican. We've heard if he left at any point, he could adopt the Sanders model although obviously with a different ideology, but why would you do that?

And McConnell would be crazy not to try because why not create and divisions and why not put a filler out there just in case Manchin gets sick and walks away. But at this point, we really are hearing he intends to remain a Democrat but stake out the role that he has taken out.

SCIUTTO: Sabrina, it's been interesting to watch the administration's response to the omicron variant, because, very quickly, Biden and others said we are not locking down. You know, go celebrate the holidays, make sure you're vaccinated, but go celebrate the holidays, clearly reading the politics of today. But now we're also seeing data that omicron may not be as serious, right, as other variants. And I wonder if you're hearing -- and, again, it's early, but if you're hearing folks in the White House who feel that they dodged something of a bullet here.

SIDDIQUI: Well, I think that what I've been hearing when I speak to aides in the White House about the omicron variant is very much that they want to emphasize that this pandemic isn't a new phase. This is not the same place that we were in last year when there wasn't access to vaccines, and they really want to, of course, emphasize the importance of people getting vaccinated and boosters and most importantly to stress that these vaccines work. And so far, the preliminary evidence suggests that boosters especially are effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization and death when it comes to the omicron variant.

And so that's why I think you have seen the shift in tone from President Biden as well as other top health officials where they're saying there's no need to lock down or close nonessential businesses. They're not exclusively calling even for state and local officials to reinstate mask mandates and they're really, frankly, not discouraging people who are fully vaccinated and especially (INAUDIBLE) to go on with their daily activity activities, because you don't want to create a sense of panic. And there is a reality now that there will be other variants, there will be other strains, and it's less about locking down and more about learning how to live with the virus. That's the message we're hearing from the White House and taking all the protections that we now have at our disposal.

SCIUTTO: And public health officials too. Sabrina Siddiqui, Margaret Talev, I hope you get a little bit of time off these holidays. Thanks for joining us this morning.

SIDDIQUI: Thanks, happy holidays.

SCIUTTO: It is beginning to look a lot like 2019 at the airport. We got new TSA numbers showing holiday air travel back to pre-pandemic levels. We're going to have a live report coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]