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Trump Spokesman Sues 1/6 Panel to Block Financial Records; 300 National Guard Troops Deployed to Ease Strain on MA Hospitals; Obama, World Leaders Honor Late Anti-Apartheid Leader Desmond Tutu. Aired 9:30a-10a ET

Aired December 27, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:33:54]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: In another sign that the January 6th committee is ramping up its efforts to follow the money and uncover any funding behind the Capitol insurrection, former President Trump's current spokesperson, Taylor Budowich, is now suing the committee over access to his financial records, revealing in a new lawsuit that the panel has demanded information directly from his bank as well.

Our senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid joins me now. I mean the crux of this is he's saying, look, I already gave the committee 1,700 pages of documents I've provided four hours of testimony. What more do they want? But they want more.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They want a lot more. And one of the things that's so incredibly significant about this lawsuit is that it reveals for the first time a subpoena issued by the committee for information directly from a bank. It shows how the committee is using its subpoena power to follow the money surrounded the pro-Trump rallies leading up to the insurrection.

Now, lawmakers are specifically seeking information pertaining to the source of the funds for the planning and promotion of the January 6th rally on the ellipse.

Now, Budowich was subpoenaed last month. And in the lawsuit he argues, yes, I've complied.

[09:35:00]

I've produced nearly 2,000 pages of documents which he claims are sufficient to identify all account transactions for the time period between mid-December and the end of January of 2021 in connection with the rally on the ellipse.

Now, notably, Poppy, he reveals that he has also provided sworn testimony. While there is a lot of bluster from the president's -- former president's closest allies railing against this investigation, here's his own spokesperson quietly cooperating. Now, Budowich also argues that the committee is seeking information

that it doesn't have the power to obtain. He's making an argument that actually several other witnesses, who have been targeted by the committee, have been made. They're challenging the committee, arguing that it does not have the authority to pursue these records because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi appointed two Republicans to the panel without the agreement of the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy.

Now, interestingly, it's not known if the documents that were targeted by this request have already been turned over because it appears that Budowich actually missed the deadline that he was given by his bank to try to block these requests.

Poppy.

HARLOW: We'll see what happens. I mean we remember what happened when they went to Deutsche Bank for records. So, we'll see how this all plays out.

Paula, thanks so much for your great reporting.

Let's talk about this and a lot more with CNN senior political analyst and anchor, John Avlon, and former Republican U.S. Congressman Joe Walsh.

Good to have you both in.

Joe, let me begin with you because you're very nervous about the potential for more violence on the one-year mark of the Capitol insurrection. The same day the president's going to hold this news conference and has been talking about, you know, discussing -- once again pushing the big lie, pushing false claims of voter fraud in the last election.

Despite the lies, you have said that you think it's important for Democrats to, in your words, quote, broadcast everything Donald Trump says. Why?

JOE WALSH (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Hey, Poppy. Good to be with you.

Look, here we are a year removed from a violent attempt to overthrow an American election, all incited by Donald Trump. I think it's really important, Poppy, to -- for the American people to be reminded at every opportunity possible that Donald Trump is an enemy of democracy. He's an enemy of this country because he incited that attack.

Look, Trump's going to run again, Poppy. Trump's still the leader of the Republican Party. And it's not even close. He's still a live threat to this democracy. So every time he speaks and every time he lies and every time he incites violence or amps up the big lie, I think it's really important for America to hear it.

HARLOW: John, former President Trump is under fire from some in his own party now, big time. Some super far right Republicans. And I don't want to say this is all Republicans. It's not at all. But there are some that are very mad at him and booing him in public

events and calling him out because he is vocally supporting the vaccine and boosters.

Listen to this from right-wing commentator Candace Owens after her interview with Trump where he reiterated vaccines work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE OWENS, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: You often times forget like how old Trump is. He comes from a generation -- I've seen other people that are older have the exact same perspective. Like, they came from a time before TV, before Internet, before being able to conduct their independent research, you know, and everything that they read in a newspaper that was pitched to them, that they believed that that was a reality.

I believe also that he only reads the mainstream media news. Believe it or not. I do not believe that Trump reads or partakes in any other news sources. You know, I don't believe that Trump is on the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What does all of this tell you about the anti-vaccine movement from some within the president's own party?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that little rant sounded suspiciously like a cult member having a crisis of faith because the leader of the organization, so to speak, has all of a sudden, committed the sin of finally, belatedly telling the truth about vaccines. Granted, by the way, only in the context of him trying to take credit for them. But telling the truth is better than the alternative, which he's been doing for a year and a half, hiding the fact that he got boosted in the first place.

So, Candace Owens and some other folks in the far right are freaking out. And it's interesting because now there's daylight between Donald Trump's base and himself. And there hasn't been for a long time because he's pretty cunning about really being led by the base despite the fact he's the (INAUDIBLE) leader of the movement.

So, I think this is going to go some places that are really interesting.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes. Dangerous for public health.

AVLON: Well, and then there's that.

HARLOW: Yes.

AVLON: This is just the right-wing -- far right, you know, feudalism of the fights going on, the hunt for heretics. But the real serious issue, of course, is when she's talking about how young people, you know, are somehow anti-science. All that's BS.

[09:40:00] But we know that disinformation can be deadly. We are seeing it every day.

HARLOW: Yes.

Joe, what's the political calculation here from the former president? Is there one?

WALSH: What we know about Trump, Poppy, is, everything he does and says is to advance and promote Trump. It's all about Trump. I think he's running again in 2024. He is, as John said, he is the cult leader. He knows that he can step out and promote the vaccines. And the bulk of the base, because I hear from the base every day, the bulk of the base is still going to support him. He's running in 2024. So I think this is to help him with the constituents like suburban women that he needs.

HARLOW: John, I was so struck by this really important interview yesterday on "STATE OF THE UNION" right here on CNN that Dana did. Debbie Dingell, congresswoman, was on with fellow Michigan lawmaker, Republican Fred Upton, and they were talking about the tumultuous year in Washington and yet their friendship and how you can work with people on the other side. I mean I think about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Justice Scalia, right? I mean talk about complete opposites, but being able to work together in a respectful way.

But listen to what Congresswoman Dingell said and when she played one of the number of threatening voicemails that she has received.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You goddamn old senile (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You're -- you're as old and ugly as Biden. You ought to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off the planet. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) four (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They ought to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) try you for treason, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You and every one of your scumbag (EXPLETIVE DELETED) friends. I hope your family dies in front of you I pray to God, if you've got any children, they die in your face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean -- and she has talked about getting these every year since Trump attacked her late husband, former Congressman John Dingell.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: Is there a return to civility possible when you see things like that, John Avlon?

AVLON: Yes. Yes. I believe so, simply because things like that are so stark and so ugly, that no matter, you know, if that person thinks of himself as some kind of patriot for leaving voicemails expressing such hate and bile and violence on an elected official, I think that is what strikes people, is that it has come to this.

And as you said, what's significant about that message that she played on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Dana, is that it's one of many.

HARLOW: Yes.

AVLON: That this has become part of the cost of doing business. And, instead, the thing that democracy depends upon, and assumption of good will among fellow citizens, and friendships among people who believe differently in Congress, that's become the endangered species.

At some point this fever has got to break. And it will break when people realize and remember the better angels of their nature and realize that the people who are talking this way, which is far too common on social media and other places, is actually the aberration. Those people are unwell. They're a sickness in our democracy and they need to be called out and seen as such.

HARLOW: Joe, it's, you know, part of the institution that you were a member of and do you agree with John?

WALSH: No, actually, Poppy, respectfully to my good friend John, I -- look, I come from the base. I hear from these folks every day, Poppy. The fever ain't breaking any day soon. And I think the rest of America needs to realize this.

The entire base of one of our two major political parties has been fully radicalized, Poppy. This is not going to change any time soon. This is not a reach across the aisle unity moment in American history. This is all of the rest of us who are not in that base. We've got to lock arms to defend democracy. But that fever is not breaking any time soon.

AVLON: Poppy, if I may. I don't think Joe and I are disagreeing here. I think we both see what's happened to the Republican Party. But it will depend on people locking arms, like Fred Upton and Debbie Dingell, to defend our democracy.

HARLOW: Yes.

AVLON: To realize that's the issue, the only issue that matters. And from that I think the fever will eventually break. But, no, kumbaya is not breaking out any time soon.

HARLOW: John Avlon, thank you.

Joe Walsh, thank you.

WALSH: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: John, we'll see you tomorrow on "NEW DAY."

AVLON: All right.

HARLOW: Hospitals in Massachusetts are under so much strain that the National Guard is being sent in to help. What do those hospitals need most right now? The chief operating officer of Tufts Medical Center is with me next.

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[09:49:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

National Guard troops are deploying this week across the state of Massachusetts to help ease the strain on hospitals there. Three hundred National Guard members are being sent to hospitals across Massachusetts to fill non-medical support roles. Governor Charlie Baker has also ordered hospitals to postpone or cancel all non- essential elective procedures that might lead to overnight stays.

With me now is Diana Richardson, chief operating officer at Tuffs Medical Center in Boston, where six National Guard troops just arrived this morning.

Diana, thank you for being with me. I'm glad you've got a little extra support. What will they be doing?

DIANA RICHARDSON, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, TUFFS MEDICAL CENTER: Good morning, Poppy. Thank you for having me.

So the troops are actually helping in non-clinical roles. We have four that will be deployed to the emergency room helping with patient movement, patient transport, and two that will actually be helping our public safety department managing the patients coming in for vaccines and testing and various other needs.

HARLOW: What does it tell you that you need the National Guard in your hospital two years into this pandemic?

[09:50:08]

RICHARDSON: You know, we have said that every time we think we have our arms around what we need to do, the situation changes.

HARLOW: Yes.

RICHARDSON: I think what we're seeing now is a coming together of the holidays with people getting together, an extremely contagious variant, and this is a time of year that our hospitals tend to be very busy anyway. And on top of that, we have layered a lot of patients who have deferred care and that have acute needs that have nothing to do with Covid but they're all coming together at the same time.

HARLOW: Yes.

We mentioned at the top that the governor in Massachusetts has basically asked all the hospitals to cut back on or stop elective surgeries. And I think when we hear the word "elective," we think of like, I don't know, plastic surgery or tummy tuck or something like that. That includes cancer surgeries. That includes hernia repair. That includes a hip replacement. Is that what you're having to do at your hospital? RICHARDSON: Yes, so we had actually started postponing many of those

procedures even well in advance of the governor's order. It is a very acute patient need that is troubling us now. So we are not postponing procedures that are truly urgent and lifesaving and needed right now. And that's what we are seeing. So we're not seeing as many of the routine procedures. We have deferred all of those. But we are really seeing acute needs.

We're also very concerned with postponing some things that are not necessarily essential but have been postponed quite a bit during the pandemic.

HARLOW: Right.

RICHARDSON: Which means that patients are not getting that preventive care. And then when the illness does present and the patient does come to the hospital, they are much sicker and it's very troubling from a health care perspective as well but very needed to free up the beds at the moment.

HARLOW: One of your colleagues talked about the staff shortages that your hospital was already dealing with. And now that the CDC has said Covid-infected health care workers, if they have two negative tests, can come back to work after seven days of isolation and in some circumstances five, and if it's really necessary after no isolation if they test negative. Is that something that your hospital is applying, and what kind of difference will it make if you are?

RICHARDSON: Yes. We have, as of this morning, 115 staff members out ill with Covid, who have tested positive.

HARLOW: Wow.

RICHARDSON: But some of them are not as acutely ill. And, in fact, some of them are asymptomatic completely. We have a very vaccinated population. And so it will help us to bring those individuals back into the workforce. It is still trying having them out for even the five days or the seven days depending on the circumstance.

HARLOW: Right.

RICHARDSON: But we did actually make that change as soon as our state allowed it on Friday.

HARLOW: OK. Diana Richardson, thank you for the time. We wish you luck. I hope those National Guard members, I'm sure they'll help, but I know you need every little bit of help you guys can get. Good luck.

RICHARDSON: We do. Thank you.

HARLOW: At noon in Cape Town, South Africa, today, this is what people heard.

Those are the bells of St. George's Cathedral ringing in honor of the remarkable Archbishop Desmond Tutu who died yesterday at 90 years old. How leaders around the world are remembering him, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:56]

HARLOW: South Africa begins a week of mourning today as tributes pour in for the late anti-apartheid leader Archbishop Desmond Tutu. The South African religious leader's work for civil rights and human rights led to prominent honors for him, well deserved, around the well. Take a look. This is some video from former President Obama in 2009 when he was awarding Archbishop Tutu the Presidential Medal of Freedom. After his death, Obama called Tutu a mentor, a friend, and a moral compass.

CNN's Larry Madowo joins me live.

Larry, what a man, what a legacy, what a life, and a week to honor him.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just a week of remembrance all across South Africa. They are planning memorials in every part of the country and across southern Africa to honor a man who fought against apartheid and used his voice from the pulpits to the streets to talk about this injustice that he considered immoral, unjust and un-Christian, evil, even. And that's why he won the Nobel Prize back in 1984.

But even after the fall of apartheid in 1984 in South Africa, he continued to talk about injustices whenever he saw them. He tackled global issues like the Palestinian statehood, like the Chinese policy in Tibet, like the Iraq War that he marched against. He was a prominent activist for LGBTQ rights in South Africa, when that is a controversial topic even in that country. He didn't stop. And that is why you have seen, Poppy, tributes from all over the world, from the Dalai Lama, to the pope, to the queen of England, to President Biden, leaders, kinds, queens, around the world honoring this man who is a South African national treasure, an African hero and a global icon as he has gone to rest.

So, truly, they are marking this remarkable life, and he will be interred on 1st of January, on New Year's Day, at St. George's Cathedral in Cape Town, which used to be called the people's cathedral during the struggle against apartheid.

HARLOW: As I was going to bed last night, Larry, this book of mine in my office had a quote from him on the back, and it said, "we grow in kindness when our kindness is tested."

[10:00:01]

And he really taught us all that, I think.

MADOWO: Absolutely. He did.

And just one quick quote, Poppy, one of his most famous quotes is, if you chose