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Any Hope For Build Back Better?; Omicron Surge Impacting Travel. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 27, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Victor is off today. Thanks for joining me.

More than 1,000 U.S. flights grounded today because of COVID, the Omicron variant derailing many travel plans for a third day in a row. The U.S. now averaging more than 198,000 new infections a day. That's a level not seen since last January. It's a whopping 47 percent increase from just last week.

But hospitalizations are rising less quickly than they did with the Delta surge. Today, President Biden conceded there are not enough COVID tests, but he told the nation's governors that his administration is here to help them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not like March of 2020, the beginning of the pandemic. We're prepared and we know what it takes to save lives, protect people and keep schools and businesses open.

We just have to stay focused and continue to work together.

My message to the governors is simple. If you need something, say something. And we're going to have your back in any way we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We have correspondents covering all angles of this.

Nadia Romero is at Atlanta's airport. Alexandra Field is at a New York City testing site.

But I'll begin with Leyla Santiago in Miami.

So, Leyla, you're also at a testing site. So what does it look like? How long are people waiting?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we have been here since 4:00 a.m.

And since we arrived, this line of cars has been wrapped around what is a pretty large recreational park here in South Florida. The group that runs this tells me that this is -- they are seeing unprecedented demand when it comes to testing. They have never seen anything like this. They say it is nearly double what they saw in the last wave when it peaked with Delta.

They have had to increase the workers here at this site by 50 percent. They plan to open an additional four to five sites in Miami-Dade in the coming days to try to meet that demand. That said, they say they have plenty of supply, plenty of workers, they are just having to deal with that crazy surge in demand right now.

We spoke to people in line. They tell us that they have been waiting hours to try to get their tests. Listen to how one person described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISABELLA LEON, DANCER: They didn't inform us of hardly anything. They let everybody go about their business. The only reason why we found out that people on the ship had COVID is because the first destination we were supposed to go to, it took -- we sat there for a couple of hours. And then we found out they wouldn't let us on that destination because of so many people on the ship having COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: And my apologies, Alisyn. That was a woman who was actually on a cruise ship that came back yesterday morning. That was a Carnival cruise ship that docked with several cases of COVID.

The spokesperson for Carnival Cruise saying that they had a small amount of passengers that had to be isolated, pointed out also that they were vaccinated and tested before they took off on that voyage.

Now, back here to the testing site, we talked to several people who had to wait more than two hours. And they told us, comparing it to what it was, they said, look, just a month ago, we were able to come in and out and five, 10, maybe 15 minutes max, but now it's taking so much longer because people are in a bit of a panic, given the holidays and how quickly Omicron is spreading.

I do want to quickly though, read to you a statement that I received from the Florida Hospital Association, in which they say: "The Delta surge peaked on August 23, 2021, with 17,121 hospitalizations. And, as of today, we have 2,075 COVID hospitalization statewide. While we are optimistic, based on the experiences in other countries, that the Omicron variant will lead to less severe illness, the rate of new cases is certainly concerning, given the general percentage of new cases that lead to hospitalizations."

CAMEROTA: Yes, well, let's hope that those numbers do stay relatively low.

Leyla, thank you for that.

SANTIAGO: We hope.

CAMEROTA: OK, Nadia, to you.

[15:05:00]

So what's happening at the Atlanta Airport right now?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, I can tell you that frustration is really boiling over for a lot of the passengers who have had cancellations and delays.

We were out here on Christmas Day. Everyone was filled with Christmas holiday cheer. Not so much today. A lot of frustration. You can tell by all the whistling and the cars honking their horns, people are frantically trying to make their flight.

Now, if they're lucky enough to get on a flight, with thousands of cancellations globally today and throughout the entire weekend, once they get inside, they're going to encounter long TSA pre-check lines, long lines to get your bags checked. We're just seeing the staffing shortage in every element, every part of your travel journey.

And so that's why we talked to those passengers about what they're experiencing and why they still decided, I'm going to get on that flight. I'm going to test my luck and see if my flight will not be canceled or delayed.

We spoke with people who said that they're going to go out and try to live their lives as best they can during the holiday travel season, where you have plenty of inconveniences, and even though the Omicron variant is still spreading rapidly across the country.

Here's one man on his way to Florida, where he's hoping that he can leave all his troubles behind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT CAPUTO, TRAVELER: You know, everybody's wearing a mask. And, hey, you know what? We have to live our lives. At the end of the day, if we shut down cities and -- we have to live our lives. We got to get back to normal.

The alternative is really not a good option.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: So there are a lot of people who told me that they didn't do much last Christmas, Christmas 2020, before the vaccine, when people were very afraid of traveling or even leaving their homes or going to work or going to the gym.

And so now we have people who haven't seen their families, Alisyn, in two years since, Christmas 2019. So they said they're going to put up with all the inconveniences, all the roadblocks just to make sure that they can enjoy themselves this holiday season -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We all understand that pent-up Christmas holiday demand. Nadia, thank you for that. So, Alex, let's go to New York now. Tell us what's happening, because

this new vaccine mandate has gone into effect in New York today.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And it's incredibly unique, Alisyn, because we have seen over the last few months so many mandates that target public sector workers, but this is about the private sector. It affects them 184,000 businesses across New York City.

The rule now is that, if you work for a private business, you will need to show proof of vaccination. The city also taking more steps today when it comes to vaccine mandates. These apply to children. Those aged 12 and up will as of today have to show proof of at least two shots to get into a restaurant, to participate in a number of other activities throughout the city.

And for those who are 5 to 11, they will now have to show proof of at least one shot. That is how seriously New York City is taking the vaccine mandate issue and trying to maintain some public safety, especially as we see a surge that has centered so heavily on New York City, days and days of these record-smashing COVID case numbers.

Even in the face of that, though, the mayor is saying today that hospitals are actually holding up remarkably well, a big difference between what we're seeing now, of course, and what we are seeing -- what we were seeing back in March of 2020.

I have to say that the city is not operating entirely as normal. We are still seeing the impacts of this surge. You're seeing some cutbacks when it comes to subway service, some modifications for shows that go on in the city, museums, various attractions. A lot of that has to do with staffing shortages or safety concerns, but a lot still going forward, even in the face of these very high numbers -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Leyla, Nadia, Alex, thank you.

And joining me now are Dr. Chris Pernell, a public health physician and an American College of Preventative medicine fellow, and Dr. Rob Davidson, an E.R. Physician in West Michigan. He's also the executive director of the Committee to Protect Health Care.

Doctors, thank you both so much for taking time to be here.

Dr. Davidson, I just want to start with you, because when we spoke about two weeks ago, you were telling us about how the ICU at your hospital was overrun and how people were having, yourself included, to take on extra shifts.

So, if you could, just tell us what's happening in the hospitals right now. Is it still the case that it's overrun? Are you seeing more children? What's the status report?

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Well, I tell you, we are still deeply mired into Delta surge here. We really haven't seen, as far as the state numbers go, as much Omicron as they're seeing on the coasts and as you're reporting on. And we still have full ICUs across the entirety of West Michigan. The capacity is well over 100 percent still. It's probably 130 percent or so, simply because they had to expand into different areas of the hospital to provide ICU care. People with COVID stay in the hospital an extremely long time.

So, as cases around here are starting to trend down just a little bit, as we're seeing those test positive rates down in the mid-teens, rather than up around 30, where they were a couple of weeks ago, the hospital numbers are very slowly coming down, and it's still a crunch.

[15:10:04]

We're still scrambling for beds every shift. And we're somewhat terrified about what could happen with Omicron if it starts crashing here like it has by you all.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I don't blame you.

And just one personal question, Dr. Davidson, because you have been tweeting about how your college-age daughter tested positive. And even you, as a doctor, had a hard time getting her tested. So how is she? And just tell us a little bit about that?

DAVIDSON: Yes, and she's doing great. She's on day eight, I believe, now, so a couple more days in isolation.

She doesn't depend on a paycheck to get out of our basement. So that's a relatively minimal burden, other than the boredom. Yes, getting at- home tests has been a challenge, right, going to multiple pharmacies. I will say, when I go up a little further north into the area where I work, where people aren't terribly interested in testing or vaccinations, it's a lot easier to find them, because, frankly, there isn't a demand.

So, yes, it's going fine.

CAMEROTA: OK, I'm happy to hear that.

So, Dr. Pernell, that leads us to testing for everyone. And as -- it's no secret that there is a testing shortage. There's an at-home testing kit shortage. And so who should be testing right now? Should you only test if you have symptoms? Should you test if you're about to leave the house and go to a family gathering? What should we be doing?

DR. CHRIS PERNELL, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN: Good question, Alisyn.

There are three scenarios where I think people should be testing. So if you have been exposed to someone who has confirmed coronavirus, about three to five days after that exposure, you should get tested. If you have symptoms that are consistent with COVID -- so, right now, we know, with the Omicron variant, that could be head and nasal congestion, headache, or runny nose. It could be a sore throat. It could even be sneezing.

You should get tested. And also if you're going to do what I consider a high-risk event, travel abroad, whether there's someone in your travel group or where you're going at your destination that has certain vulnerabilities, you too should be testing. So it really is shameful that we don't have the amount of tests that are necessary to be able to use it as the robust containment tool that we know it is when used effectively.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you both about this conversation that I'm sure you have heard about by now. And that was between former President Trump and this right-wing commentator Candace Owens.

President Trump was touting the success of the vaccines and keeping people alive. And Candace Owens was, I guess, rejecting that. She was trying to justify after the fact, after the interview, how he could possibly think that.

And so here's what she came up with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE OWENS, HOST, "CANDACE": You oftentimes forget, like, how old Trump is. He comes from a generation -- I have seen other people that are older have the exact same perspective.

Like, they came from a time before TV, before Internet, before being able to conduct their independent research and everything that they read in a newspaper that was pitched to them, that that they believed that was a reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Dr. Davidson at the moment, I think 34.4 percent of the country remains unvaccinated.

Is it time to shift in terms of the messaging? There's been so much effort to get the unvaccinated vaccinated. But now, two years, however far we are into this, is it time to just focus on getting people who are vaccinated the booster and to stop trying to change or convert the minds of people like that woman, who are so impenetrable?

DAVIDSON: I want to say that that is the case. And I think we certainly need to operate on multiple levels and multiple channels of messaging.

The problem I have is, where I work and in the area where I work, about 55 percent of people are not vaccinated. And, frankly, most of those people will never get vaccinated unless someone makes them get vaccinated to go to the movie, to go to a restaurant, to travel, to go to work.

And so I'm very much in support of vaccine mandates for that group of people. If it weren't for that, and the fact that our hospitals fill and we were at and past the breaking point for about the past six weeks or so, I would say it's time to move on. But for self- preservation and preservation of the entire system and everybody who comes in for things other than COVID, we have to continue to get more people vaccinated. And mandates are probably the way you have to do that.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Pernell, what's the answer to get the people who are so dug in to consider vaccinations?

PERNELL: Unfortunately, the people like Candace Owens are not the people that I think we should be trying to convert, but it's the people behind the Candace Owens.

What we know is that, when local physicians, when people who are trusted in their communities speak up to those who have been reticent or who lack confidence in vaccines, those people slowly do begin to convert. And we do know the power of requirements or mandates, as others have said.

[15:15:00]

Look, Alisyn, I am not willing to give up on anyone. I'm a public health physician. And I spend every day, whether by phone, in person, text, a virtual meeting, talking to people to address their fears and their concerns. What we need to be very vociferous about is beating back disinformation.

And people like Candace Owens and others have been flagrant at putting out disinformation into the public sphere. So, we in public health, we got to get savvy, we must be plainspoken, and we got to fight for the best -- what's in the best interests of all Americans.

CAMEROTA: Well, Dr. Pernell and Dr. Davidson, I appreciate you both always reminding me not to give up on people. Thank you for that message during these holidays. Great to talk to you.

DAVIDSON: Thank you. Thanks, Alisyn.

PERNELL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Democrats are refusing to give up on President Biden's Build Back Better plan, why the bill could take a new form in the new year.

And new questions from the jury deciding the fate of Jeffrey Epstein's longtime associate Ghislaine Maxwell. We have all of the details ahead.

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CAMEROTA: Now that President Biden's Build Back Better plan has stalled in the Senate, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, the leader of the Progressive Caucus, wants him to consider an executive action.

She writes in "The Washington Post" -- quote -- "Taking executive action will also make clear to those who hinder Build Back Better that the White House and Democrats will deliver for Americans." Joining me now is CNN political commentator Charlie Dent. He's a former Republican congressman. And CNN political analyst Natasha Alford, she's the V.P. of digital strategy at The Grio.

Great to see both of you.

So, Natasha, I mean, is this where we are, that the White House and President Biden has had to confront so much resistance to Build Back Better, even within his own party from, say, Senator Joe Manchin, that he would go it alone with executive action?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well, Alisyn, I think that you have to move forward. That is the only option right now.

And the American people who came out to vote, who are actually quite supportive of many of the policies that are in Build Back Better, want to see action taken. So I think that, for many progressives who were wary of what we saw happen, who warned that this might happen if you separate infrastructure from Build Back Better, that, at the last minute, Manchin might change his mind, they have to have something to bring back to their constituents.

And what is interesting is that many of these policies, universal pre- K, paid family leave, expanding Medicaid, are -- again, they're very popular. So if you're able to show through executive action that you are supporting the ideals and the principles behind these policies, or you break down Build Back Better, and you pass them one by one, you're showing that you're moving the ball forward.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, what do you think of that strategy? And should it just be broken into smaller pieces that might be palatable to even some Republicans? Or is that out of the question?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it should be broken into smaller pieces for sure.

But I just want to say one thing about these executive actions. I think it'd be a terrible mistake for Congress to continue to surrender its Article 1 authorities, power of the purse authorities, to the executive. Expanding the child tax credit is not the province of the president. It's the province of Congress. That is tax policy.

They should not surrender that. That should not be done through executive order. None of this stuff should be done through executive order.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: But what should Congress do if the president does that?

DENT: What they should do is, like you said earlier, break this up in the bits.

Senator Cardin talked about that, I think, yesterday, where, for example, on the child tax credit, Republicans, like me, we voted to expand the child tax credit. You can do it again. But it might not be the size and scale and scope that the progressives would like. They could do the same on paid family leave.

I mean, I know that Senators Romney and Rubio and I think Collins have been talking about that and -- as an issue that they want to advance, as well as a child tax credit. Why don't they try to do something?

But the problem is, it won't -- the scope and scale won't be as big as progressives would like. And this is a big part of the problem. The Biden administration has been too acquiescent to the progressive wing of the party. I mean, tying this whole thing together, Build Back Better with the infrastructure, was a mistake on a monumental scale.

They misread their mandate. I have said this many times. This presidency was about being transitional to the next generation of Democrats, not transformational. They have misread this thing completely. It's about being stable. It's about being normal. This is a rejection of Trump, not an endorsement of this massive agenda.

So -- but they can get some of these on a bipartisan basis, but they're going to have to work on it, and they're going to need 60 votes in the Senate.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about this climate of vile, hateful talk and just toxic partisanship.

And nothing captures it better than this voice-mail that Congresswoman Debbie Dingell got, and I'm just going to play it, so that everybody understands the kinds of things that our members of Congress are subjected to every day.

So listen to this voice-mail.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You goddamn old senile (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You're as old and ugly as Biden.

You ought to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off the planet, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) foul (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They ought to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) try you for treason. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you and every one of your scumbag (EXPLETIVE DELETED) friends.

I hope your family dies in front of you. I pray to God, if you got any children, they die in your face.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean, just grotesque, obviously.

Natasha, politics has made that man sick. It's made him sick. And I don't know -- I mean, well, here's my question to you. Do you think that it's worse in Congress than in the rest of the country, it's more extreme?

[15:25:08]

ALFORD: Well, Alisyn, when I hear that voice-mail, I essentially see the hate that I think is playing out across the country.

When you look at some of the school board meetings, we're talking about children in masks, and the intensity and the sort of death threats and the way in which parents are behaving -- these are adults who are raising children -- you see irrationality. You see just a disconnect from reality.

And so I think that what we see in that voice-mail is just a reflection of what has been happening across the country. And I know that this -- I don't know if this is going to be popular, but I'm just going to say it. This actually is a side of our country that has always existed, right?

The mob mentality that we saw on January 6, that's something that's actually been a part of American culture, as much as we hate to sort of accept that. For all the beautiful things that America represents, many communities have dealt with that sort of hatred. That's where lynchings come about, right? That's where you see places like Tulsa burned down out of that sense of hatred and disconnect from what the country is supposed to be about.

So I'm not surprised by the intensity of it. But I think the question is, what are we going to do about it?

CAMEROTA: Yes, that is the question.

Charlie, what's the answer?

DENT: Well, I think, really, the issue is that we have kind of forgotten how to have civil debates in this country, not just in Congress, but among ourselves.

That is the problem. I mean, but this problem has been around for a while, as Natasha has pointed out. I mean, I used to have a safe room in my congressional district office, where my staff could go in the event we had a lunatic come in.

We had pictures of about five or six people, like mug shots, that if any of these people ever show up in the office or call the office, contact the police immediately. So we have people out there who are unstable, unbalanced, and make those kinds of calls like Debbie Dingell received. And Fred Upton also got a doozy of one too.

I mean, these people are awful. And I just -- I don't know how you teach people to be respectful. You can actually disagree with your opponent, you can debate them while acknowledging the legitimacy of their argument. You can do that. It's not hard to do, but we have lost that. It's either my way or the highway. If you disagree with me, it's a human rights violation.

And they will go to these extreme lengths and use rhetoric that, frankly, at times crosses the line to almost a terroristic threat.

CAMEROTA: For sure.

Well, look, I mean, I think that that's a good place to start in terms of civil discourse. And I appreciate you both modeling it for everyone.

Charlie Dent, Natasha Alford, thank you.

DENT: Thanks, Alisyn.

ALFORD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, jurors in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial are asking new questions today. And it might give insight into which way they're headed.

A live report from the courthouse next.

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