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At-Home Tests are Less Sensitive; Omicron Prompts Long Testing Lines; Biden May issue Travel Vaccine Mandate; Dr. Jonathan Reiner is Interviewed about the CDC Guidance Change; Remembering Harry Reid; Biden White House Pushes Back on Document Request. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 29, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: Kindness can change a person's life. We need more of that.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, more of that, fewer of those plane, crazy meltdowns that people are having.

AVLON: Yes, I'm with you. Double down on the kindness away from the crazy.

Be well.

COLLINS: Thanks for joining us this morning. CNN's coverage continues right now.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow. So glad you're with me today. Jim has the week off.

And new this morning, on CNN, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky weighing in on her agency's decision to cut Covid-19 isolation guidance, saying it was based in part on what they thought people could tolerate and had nothing to do with the shortage of tests across this country.

This as the U.S. has just seen its worst day yet in terms of new Covid-19 infections, shattering its record average of daily new cases on Tuesday with more than 265,000 new Covid cases. Nationwide, hospitalizations of children are also near their September peak. Right now, an average of just over 300 children are fighting Covid-19 in a hospital on any given day, and that's a stunning jump of nearly 50 percent in just one week.

And as health officials warn of a long winter ahead, cautioning that cases will skyrocket during the first few months of the year, President Biden now says vaccine requirements for domestic travel could be imposed if his medical team recommends it.

We have a lot to get to this morning. We have reporters covering all the angles. Let's begin with CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen on the news that the FDA says that at-home Covid-19 antigen tests, those are the rapid tests, may have a reduced sensitivity in detecting the omicron variant.

Wow.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wow.

So let me tell you what that means. Poppy, I don't know if you remember this from when you were pregnant, but pregnancy tests are a little bit like antigen tests. If a pregnancy test says you're pregnant, you're pregnant, right? You're pregnant. You probably shouldn't question that. You're pregnant.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes. Yes.

COHEN: But do you remember, if you read the instructions, if it says you're not pregnant, mm, maybe, maybe not. You might not be producing enough hormone to kick it off. But if you wait a few days, maybe you will be and it will be positive.

So a negative test is not always right. And that is the case with these antigen tests. So, let's take a listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci on this topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: What the FDA is saying today is that when you look at omicron, and its ability to detect omicron, some of the tests have a diminution further of the sensitivity. But they still say the tests are useful and should be used.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, this antigen test is by Abbott. Let's look at what they had to say in the statement. In a statement Abbott said, we've conducted lab analyses and tests on the omicron variant from live virus, including from the first U.S. omicron case, and BinaxNOW, that's the name of their test, detected the virus in all tests we performed at equivalent sensitivity as other variants.

Now, what does that mean? How well does this test work in any of these variants? So, we went to the CDC website. This is what the CDC has to say. Again, remember, if this test says you're positive, there is an excellent chance that it's right. Positive tests are usually right. But, if you have Covid-19, and you have symptoms, the test will be wrong 36 percent of the time. In other words, 36 percent of the time it's going to give you a false negative. It's going to tell you you're negative even though you're positive. If you have Covid-19 and you're asymptomatic, you don't have symptoms, that test is going to be wrong 64 percent of the time. Sixty-four percent of the time it's going to tell you that you don't have Covid, when you really do have Covid. And that's why Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the head of the CDC, this is part of the reason why she just said, look, we didn't require these tests to end isolation because we don't know how good these tests are at the end of an illness to predict whether or not you're still contagious.

Poppy.

HARLOW: But that's more wrong than right, if you're asymptomatic. Where does it leave us, as a country? What do you -- what do you do?

COHEN: If you have Covid and you're asymptomatic --

HARLOW: Yes.

COHEN: What you do is you take it because if it says that you're -- that you're -- I almost said pregnant. If it says that you have Covid, believe it. At least it gives you that. If it says that you have Covid, believe it. If it's negative, you might want to try testing later to see if you're still negative.

HARLOW: Right, especially if you're testing to be around family or anyone vulnerable or unvaccinated.

COHEN: Exactly. Exactly.

HARLOW: Elizabeth, thank you for that important update.

Access to Covid-19 testing continues to be a major problem in many parts of this country as the nationwide shortage of at home tests drags on. We're seeing images like this coming out of places like Florida. Some waiting several hours in line, again, today, to get tested.

Let's go to my colleague, Leyla Santiago. She joins me again this morning in Miami.

[09:05:01]

Good morning, Leyla.

The CDC is now investigating at least 89 cruise ships for Covid outbreaks and now a U.S. senator, Richard Blumenthal, is calling for cruise lines to pause and dock their ships, calling them petri dishes of Covid infection.

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Poppy. Remember, earlier this week, we talked to you about Carnival Freedom ship that docked on Sunday. They had some cases. People expressing frustration over feeling like they didn't know what was going on at the time.

But, yes, the CDC now looking into at least 86 of those cruise ships that have reported Covid cases right now. And, again, that -- if you take that example, Carnival Freedom, where we talked earlier this week, the spokesperson said to us that that was a vaccinated ship and that they required testing before passengers got on.

So when it comes to the issue of testing, where we are right now, one of the busiest sites in south Florida, we are still seeing very long lines. And we asked someone who went through that line, they waited three hours this morning, three hours even though Miami-Dade County yesterday opened two new sites and extended hours. You're seeing quite the demand for testing right now. And the workers we talked to say they see this going into the new year.

Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YANETTE SHIPP, COVID TESTING SITE WORKER: It's almost like Covid started all over again. So -- with the influx of patients that are coming through. A lot of people aren't feeling well, so that's why they're coming to us. And then we also understand we have a lot of patients that are concerned, you know, just, oh, I was exposed or I was next to somebody who was exposed. I just want to make sure that I'm OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: That's the on-site testing. Let's talk about those rapid tests that you were just talking about with Elizabeth.

The Miami-Dade County distributed 152,000 over a two-day period. They're now out. They don't have any more. They've requested more from the department of health, but no word on when more could come.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Wow.

Leyla Santiago reporting for us in Miami. Thank you very much.

Now let's get to our John Harwood at the White House on President Biden saying if his medical team advises it, he will issue a domestic travel vaccine requirement. This comes just a couple of days after Dr. Fauci said it should be considered.

Does it sound like that's going to happen, John?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Doesn't sound like it's going to happen soon to me. You know, the rational from the White House has been so far, if you implement a vaccination requirement for domestic air travel, there's a potential for snarling the airports. If you snarl American airports, snarl domestic travel, you then create big economic problems, you disrupt people's lives, that threatens to have a lot more consequence than is worth it given the limited amount of virus transmission that they believe occurs on airplanes. Airplanes have good filtration systems. Airports may be a different story.

So I think the administration has been reluctant to take that step. Fauci walked it back a little bit after he raised a possibility. The president saying, of course, if I get the medical advice, I will go ahead and do it.

But, obviously, these decisions, Poppy, as you know, are not entirely medical or entirely scientific. They weigh other factors as well as Dr. Walensky conceded when she was talking to Kaitlan Collins on "NEW DAY" and said, well, we were impacted on changing the quarantine time by what we thought people would tolerate. That same applies to domestic air travel. We will get a grieving from the administration's Covid team at 11:00. See if they have an update. I'd be surprised if that domestic air travel requirement gets implemented soon. But the omicron variant, of course, has been very difficult to predict and the surge of infections could potentially change the equation.

HARLOW: For sure.

OK, John Harwood, thanks very much, for the reporting at the White House.

Let me bring in to talk about all of these really significant headlines, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, our CNN medical analyst and professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University.

Good morning, Doctor.

Let's begin with what the CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, said about rapid tests, that they can't be used reliably to predict how infectious a person is who tests positive. Listen to what she just told our Kaitlan Collins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CDC: We opted not to have the rapid test for isolation because we actually don't know how our rapid tests perform and how well they predict whether you're transmissible during the end of disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: How do people make sense of this now if they can't even reliably know at home if the tests really work?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Poppy.

I find it very curious that a week after the, you know, White House orders half a billion tests, amidst criticism that tests are not readily available, that now suddenly the CDC is calling into question the utility of these tests.

[09:10:11]

Let me just remind people how these tests work. We have two kinds of tests. We have PCR tests, which can detect very minute amounts of virus. Sometimes before a person is even infectious. And later on in the disease, can still detect the virus when a person is no longer infectious. And then we have antigen tests, the rapid tests, which are less good at detecting very small amounts of virus, at either end of the illness, but are very good at identifying when somebody is thought to be infectious, which is why these tests are very useful tools for helping people understand when they need to isolate, and also helping people understand when they no longer need to isolate.

HARLOW: Right.

REINER: So, what I don't understand is why a test, which has a very, very low false positivity rate, so as Elizabeth Cohen was saying, when you are positive, you are positive, why this would not be a very useful tool for telling people at day five when they can go back to work. Wouldn't you want to know if your doctor or nurse that you are seeing who is just coming out of isolation had a positive test yesterday? Obviously, you would want to know that.

So, to me, it seems like this just has this horrible resonance, back to the time when we were told we did not need masks by the CDC at a time when really the issue was we didn't have masks. Of course we would be using rapid tests in every person isolating now if they were readily available. And I wish the CDC would just come out and say, we would have incorporated these into our guidelines, same way the United Kingdom has incorporated them into their guidelines, if they were available.

HARLOW: Right. Right.

REINER: But we just don't have enough.

HARLOW: Can I ask you about something else that Dr. Walensky said this morning to Kaitlan. She said, the decision to change the guidance, quote, had a lot to do with what we thought people would be able to tolerate, end quote. What do you make of that?

REINER: Well, who are the -- who are the people she's talking about? Is it industry? You know, we -- you know, we've heard about industry reaching directly, particularly the airline industry reaching directly out to the CDC to try and get them to shorten isolation because we're running out of employees. I get that. That's important. And this, again, is why testing can be so important. If you want to get your employees back in five days, you should know whether they are infected.

And, sure, antigen tests are not perfect, but they will identify a lot of people who should not be going back to work, particularly because the new CDC guidelines don't even require people to be fully asymptomatic. They say improving symptoms.

HARLOW: Right.

REINER: So, what does that mean? Your throat is still sore, but it's not as sore? You're coughing but still -- but a little bit less? They don't require people to be completely asymptomatic. So they don't require people to be completely asymptomatic and they don't require a negative test.

And what they tell people to do is to wear a mask for the next five days just in case they're infectious? This seems to be just a jumble.

HARLOW: Leaves so many remaining questions, you're right, Dr. Reiner.

Thank you for joining us this morning on this.

REINER: My pleasure.

HARLOW: Also this morning, tributes have been pouring in honoring the life and the legacy of former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He passed away yesterday after a four-year battle with pancreatic cancer. He was 82 years old. Today flags are being flown at half-staff at the Capitol in his honor. Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle have been sharing stories of

their friendship with Reid, including former President Barack Obama. He shared a letter that he wrote to Senator Reid ahead of his death, writing, quote, I got the news that the health situation has taken a rough turn and that it's hard to talk on the phone, which, let's face it, is not that big of a change because you never liked to talk on the phone anyway. Here is what I want you to know, You were a great leader in the Senate, and early on you were more generous to me than I had any right to expect. I wouldn't have been president had it not been for your encouragement and support, and I wouldn't have got most of what I got done without your skill and determination. Most of all, you've been a good friend.

He goes on to write, as different as we are, I think both of us saw something of ourselves in each other, a couple of outsiders who had defied the odds and knew how to take a punch and cared about the little guy. And you know what, we made a pretty good team.

Let me bring in our Melanie Zanona.

Melanie, good morning to you.

What a legacy Harry Reid leaves behind.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, the political world has truly lost a giant.

Harry Reid rose from the most humble beginnings in Searchlight, Nevada, where he grew up in extreme poverty and he went on to become one of most powerful Senate leaders in history, overseeing a number of historic legislative achievements, including the passage of Obamacare and delivering healthcare to millions of Americans.

[09:15:16]

You know, Harry Reid was really known around here as the fighter. He was tough. He was tenacious. Undoubtedly he drew on his experience as an amateur boxer when he had to do battle in the legislative arena.

He was also a really hard worker. Some people don't know this, but he actually put himself through law school by working as a Capitol Police officer at night. And he never let his humble background drag him down. In fact, he always talked about it and used it as his guiding light and principle around here.

Now, the condolences are pouring in. I want to read for you what President Joe Biden said about Harry Reid. They served together for two decades in the Senate. Here is what Biden tweeted. He said, a son of Searchlight, Nevada, Harry never forgot his humble roots. A boxer, he never gave up a fight. A great American, he looked at challenges and believed it was within our capacity to do good, to do right. May God bless Harry Reid, a dear friend and a giant of our history.

And even Mitch McConnell, whom Reid often sparred with in the Senate, said he appreciated the sincere relationship that they had whenever the passions did cool down. Now, the flags, as you mentioned, are being lowered to half-staff here

at the Capitol. We're still waiting to hear what the memorial services are going to look like here. But, undoubtedly, Harry Reid's legacy is going to be honored and remembered in a big way.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Thank you very much, Melanie, for the reporting.

Next, the January 6th committee stands down on a request for hundreds of pages of National Security Council records. Why the Biden White House pushed back on releasing them.

Also, the judge in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial is worried that the omicron variant could cause perhaps a mistrial. What we're learning about jury deliberations behind the scenes.

And an update on the Afghan children who were evacuated to the United States without their parents. Many have yet to be reunited with their families. Many have. But the Biden administration says about 250 children are still in limbo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:46]

HARLOW: With a little over a week until the first anniversary of the Capitol Hill insurrection, the House committee investigating the attack is facing a new type of pushback, this time, interestingly, from the Biden administration itself. That as some of the former president -- former President Trump's inner circle, who have snubbed the January 6th committee, are turning up in Mar-a-Lago as a show of solidarity and to stay in his good graces ahead of a possible run again in 2024.

Paula Reid and Sara Murray join me now.

Good morning.

Paula, what does the January 6th committee want and why is the Biden White House resisting?

PAULA REID, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Poppy, the records at issue here are hundreds of pages of National Security Council documents the committee believes are related to January 6th. But the Biden White House wants to keep them secret to preserve the confidentiality of discussions and advice around the presidency.

Now, as it turns out, the documents may not have actually been that helpful to investigators. The Biden White House said in a letter this month, these records, quote, appear to have no content that might be material to the select committee's investigation. But, this pushback is significant because the Biden White House has the authority to protect Trump White House and Trump administration records, but so far President Biden has repeatedly rejected former President Trump's blanket efforts to just -- to cite executive privilege and try to block the release of some of his records related to January 6th.

Now, Trump has appealed this larger issue of his power to protect his records to the Supreme Court. But twice now federal judges have ruled against him and it's unclear if the Supreme Court will even take up that case.

But another big question looming over this investigation, Poppy, is, when we'll get to learn more about all this evidence the committee has gathered. Where is this all going?

CNN has learned that the committee is aiming to produce an interim report with initial findings by summer with a full report to follow in the fall.

HARLOW: OK.

And, Sara, while some Trump allies are cooperating with the January 6th committee, others have chosen to make very public displays of their loyalties to the former president. Who are they and do you have any indication of how the former president is reacting to their gestures?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean there are a lot of folks who are not just going along with what the committee wants. You know, Dan Scavino is one of the first witnesses subpoenaed. He's engaged with the committee, but he's really slow-walking them. He still has not given a deposition. And in the meantime, he's basically everywhere Trump is. He's at all these public events Trump is doing, he's showing up at Mar-a-Lago.

Roger Stone is another one. You know, he decided to plead the Fifth rather than answering any of the committee's questions. He showed up at an event in Mar-a-Lago. He posted on social media that he had a recent chat with Trump and Donald Trump was his first, second and third pick for 2024.

And Mark Meadows, former chief of staff, is another good example. You know, he's someone who has been a fixture in the Trump orbit. He showed up at Mar-a-Lago a couple of months ago, but he had started cooperating with the committee. He released that book and his relationship with Donald Trump began to grow strained. Now, Mark Meadows is no longer cooperating. He's been referred for potential criminal contempt charges and he's going on right wing media doing kind of everything he can to rebuild his standing in Trump's good graces.

By all accounts, this is thrilling to Trump. He's happy to have people who are slow-walking, snubbing, stonewalling the committee. You know, he's been out there publicly trashing the committee's work. So I think, in many ways, this is exactly what the former president wants to see.

HARLOW: Yes.

All right, Sara Murray and Paula Reid, thanks very much. Ahead, the omicron variant threatening the trial for Ghislaine

Maxwell. Could there be a mistrial if a decision is not reached before the holiday?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:40]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Jury deliberations continue this hour in the sex trafficking trial for Ghislaine Maxwell. But the omicron variant looms over the completion of this trial for the longtime associate of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The judge warning jurors to clear their schedules to deliberate over the holiday weekend until they reach a verdict. If convicted on all six counts, Maxwell faces up to 70 years in prison.

Let me bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan for more.

Good morning, Paul. Great to see you.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Poppy.

HARLOW: Judge Alison Nathan told attorneys she wants to avoid a mistrial as a result of this variant. They're worried, I think, about jurors getting sick and being out.

What do you make of where we are? I mean more than ten questions have been submitted by this jury that has been deliberating for more than six days now.

CALLAN: That's an astounding number of jury questions. I can't remember another case through the years where a jury has sent so many questions back to the court. Usually, they've given up by that time. By five or six questions, they can't reach a verdict and they're begging the jury to declare a -- the judge to declare a hung jury.

This is a hard-working jury. They're obviously working hard to reach a consensus.

[09:29:52]

And my sense, Poppy, is that you probably have an intrenched minority of the 12 jurors, maybe three, somewhere in that range, it's got to be two or three to be able to hold out against the others who are saying, this should be an acquittal, whereas the majority is saying, this should be a conviction.