Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Deliberations Resume in Maxwell Trial; Michael Balboni is Interviewed about Covid Surge in New York; Afghan Children Evacuated without Parents; Remembering John Madden. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 29, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Two or three to be able to hold out against the others who are saying, this should be an acquittal, whereas the majority is saying, this should be a conviction. Quite possibly a conviction only on limited counts, not all counts. But I think that's how it's playing out at this point, entrenched minority holding out against the majority.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: How likely is a mistrial when you have a jury deliberating for this long, sending in this many questions, leading up to the holiday? I think they weren't even supposed to convene tomorrow, on Friday, but now maybe they will.

CALLAN: It's very unusual. Normally I would say you're almost definitely going to have a hung jury and a mistrial. But I've never seen a jury so intent on reaching consensus. They're asking for notebooks. They're asking for highlighters. They're obviously each side of the dispute is trying to convince the other side, and doing it in a very rational way by presenting testimony, contradictory testimony, to get the other people to come around to their point of view.

So it sounds like maybe this is a respectful discussion of the issues, among jurors who are struggling to reach consensus. So, I think it's too early to say it's actually going to be a hung jury.

HARLOW: The judge also heard arguments from attorneys about a defense request to send the jury clarifying language about counts two and four. This is in response to a note that the jury sent on Monday of this week asking about count four related to accuser Jane's activities in New Mexico. The judge denied the request.

What does it tell you about sort of perhaps some of the biggest hang- ups for this jury? Because there have been other requests in these questions that the judge has granted.

CALLAN: Well, it's very strange to me that the court refused to reinstruct the jury on those questions. Now, normally when a jury sends a note to a judge saying, we need reinstruction on something as basic as two of the counts in the indictment, some judges will just bring them back in and reread the original instruction that was given, and then send them back out. Now, because you have to understand, the judges have books of approved

instructions that have been upheld by the appellate courts and they're very careful about the instructions they give to the jury. So, the fact that this judge refused to reinstruct them on two counts is very surprising to me and, by the way, it might be a point on appeal if there's a conviction.

HARLOW: What about how Covid and the omicron variant, especially here in New York, plays in to all of this? I mean clearly this judge is worried that if any of the jurors get sick, what happens.

CALLAN: It plays into every trial going on across the United States and the courts have been struggling with this, to try to get the court system up and running again. And, yes, if one of those jurors becomes infected with Covid, you could have a disastrous situation. And you could have a lengthy trial ending in a mistrial. So this judge is trying to get the jury to work hard, reach consensus to avoid that.

HARLOW: They wouldn't deliberate from home?

CALLAN: No, I don't think -- I've never seen a case where that has been permitted. You know, it's interesting that you ask that question because, in a lot of court proceedings now, we're doing them by Zoom conferences.

HARLOW: Right.

CALLAN: Or Cisco conferences or, you know, we're using all different kinds of video software to do it. And the appellate courts have said that's OK. I have never seen an appellate court say, OK, we can let the jury deliberate from home via video.

The problem with that would be that jurors would be too susceptible to interference by family members and others trying to influence their decision. When you have -- you know, in a room, being guarded by court officers, it's different. You can make sure that no improper influences are being brought to bear.

HARLOW: Yes. Of course. Paul Callan, thank you. Good to see you.

CALLAN: Good to see you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Ahead, nursing homes left to fend for themselves as health officials scramble to get senior citizens boosted against the omicron variant. What is being done to protect some of our most vulnerable?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:42]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Right now the omicron variant surge is putting renewed pressure on nursing homes across New York state. About a third of long-term care facilities have at least one patient infected and they're struggling to get people to get the booster shots. Covid has claimed the lives of thousands of residents of nursing homes and long-term care facilities in New York state alone since the start of the pandemic.

Let me bring in Michael Balboni, the executive director of Greater New York Health Care Facilities.

Michael, thank you very much for being here.

I know the challenge right now is immense in all of these homes across the state. Can you talk about the biggest challenges that the teams are facing right now as compared to the start of the pandemic?

MICHAEL BALBONI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GREATER NEW YORK HEALTH CARE FACILITIES: Sure. So, obviously, at the beginning of the pandemic, we were still trying to figure out what it meant, who was susceptible, what were the actions that people had to take. And, frankly, there were a lot of early mistakes.

Now, since that time, what's happened is we have a new dynamic, and that is that the omicron variant, we don't know really how deadly it is, but we know it's incredibly transmissible. But, at the same time, particularly in -- well, actually, every state in the nation is struggling with an incredible loss of staffing. In fact, we've never seen absentees in the staffing like we've seen now.

And so nursing homes have invests millions and millions of dollars in protective personal -- personal protective equipment, they've done new strategies in terms of limiting infection and transmission of disease.

[09:40:10]

But, at the same time, now, trying to get boosters in people's arms, questions have been raised by residents saying, why do I need a booster? The information is kind of back and forth as to when (ph) that is very effective. And we still have this issue of lack of staffing.

HARLOW: Why do you think there is such hesitation? It sounds like, among many of the residents of nursing homes and long-term care facilities, to the booster, given how effective it is shown to be.

BALBONI: I think it's not a universal reluctance. I think it -- it hits certain pockets. There are some places in New York City where there's just a cultural perception that this is not the thing for people to do. They've already been vaccinated.

I also think that there is -- a tremendous fatigue associated with dealing with this issue. And we're really looking for the type of direction, specific direction. The CDC, unfortunately, actually CMS, has been kind of all over the place in terms of issue -- other issues like visitation.

HARLOW: Yes.

BALBONI: We have a surge now and yet the CMS put out a guidance last week that said, you must allow visitation. And yet we know, at the beginning of the pandemic, visitation was, in fact, the problem. So there's a little bit of back and forth and I think that may have translated into some of the reluctance of certain populations.

HARLOW: You bring up visitation. I know -- I believe your view is you don't want any visitation, right?

BALBONI: Well, just for the short period of time.

HARLOW: Right.

BALBONI: There are the -- right now some of the -- there are some hospital networks in New York that have suspended visitation. And I'm getting calls from my administrator saying, we know it's coming in through the visitors. Why must we provide this type of access at this point in time?

HARLOW: Right.

BALBONI: Let's (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: What I saw is that New York's governor, Kathy Hochul, released a statement last week encouraging visitors to be fully vaccinated and boosted and wear a mask. But, to my knowledge, there is no -- there is no mandate, right, for visitors to even be vaccinated?

BALBONI: No, they're -- that's correct. Well, so what you have is someone cannot come into a facility if you're symptomatic, right?

HARLOW: Right.

BALBONI: That's always the case. But they're -- but the screening has been shown to be somewhat ineffective. You know, the temperature, we really haven't caught that many people. It just -- it just says to the -- the industry is saying to CMS in particular, let's wait for this surge to die down. Let's wait for this to go away and then we can bring visitors back because everybody understands that visitation is incredibly important to long-term care.

HARLOW: Yes, of course it is.

I know you're also very concerned about the lack of available staff and being able to bring on new hires given how many have left the sector.

BALBONI: Yes. This has been something that's actually occurred before the pandemic. You had, you know, even in New York, the increase in minimum wage now made the wage difference between what the certified nurse assistants were being paid in nursing home versus what they would get in retail, not that large. And so there's been kind of a reluctance to go into long-term congregate care settings. And then you had the pandemic, obviously. People very concerned about getting infected, having any type of impact from working in that type of a facility.

And then, frankly, the federal program of giving people money to try to help them through the pandemic said to people, well, you could stay home now. Why go to a congregate care facility at this point in time? All these things have combined to have probably the most dramatic decrease in the number of people willing to work in this industry.

HARLOW: Michael, the challenges facing all of you are immense. Thank you for joining us and good luck to everyone.

BALBONI: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Well, next, hundreds of children who fled Afghanistan are now stuck in limbo here in the United States. Their parents simply unable to be located. We have a live update on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:36]

HARLOW: Last August, as the Taliban took over control of Afghanistan, we saw scenes like this that are incredibly hard to watch. People gathering en masse at the gates of the airport in Kabul, running, trying to desperately get on U.S. Air Force planes to escape. Families who were attempting to flee together divided by violence in the chaotic withdrawal. Now about 250 children are in the United States and their families are unable to be located. Many of them have nowhere to go here in the United States to be with family.

Let me bring in my colleague, Priscilla Alvarez, on this story.

There are a number of members of Congress who are really calling -- from both parties, calling on the Biden administration to do more on this front.

What do we know about these kids right now?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know that they're waiting, Poppy, waiting to be reunited with their parents or family members who, in many cases, are still stuck in Afghanistan. And that for them alone is very difficult for them. Advocates say that in some cases children just won't eat because they think of their families who are still fleeing violence and fear in Afghanistan.

Now, as you mentioned, members of Congress have said that the administration should make this a priority.

Take a listen to what Congressman Peter Meijer told our Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: What does the Biden administration need to do right now to kick-start these reunifications?

[09:50:03]

REP. PETER MEIJER (R-MI): Show an ounce of political will. Have President Biden make this a priority.

It all flows down from the fact that at the top, in the Oval Office, with the president, there is no sense of urgency, there is no sense of compassion or concern for those that were left behind. And until that changes, we're going to continue to see the delayed, drawn-out and, frankly, deadly process that we've seen so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, we know that more than 1,400 children did arrive to the U.S. without their parents in the last few months and that many of them have been reunited with family members in the United States. But my colleague, Katherine Shoita (ph), spoke to two teens who arrived alone, have since been reunited with an uncle, and they say that it still weighs on them and those video calls with their parents is really their lifeline.

Now, the Health and Human Services Department, which is charged with the care of these children, says that it is doing everything to reunite these miners with caregivers. And advocates say that this should remain a priority for the administration in making sure that those parents who are still stuck in Afghanistan can get to the U.S. and reunite with those children who are still waiting in U.S. government custody.

HARLOW: Of course.

And, before you go Priscilla, children are not the only ones stuck in limbo right now. You've got roughly 3,000 evacuees stuck abroad and waiting for military bases, waiting for resettlement. Why is the process so delayed?

ALVAREZ: Well, for many, they left Afghanistan with little to no belongings. And that includes crucial paperwork. Now, one Afghan, for example, that we spoke with is in the United Arab Emirates and one of these transit countries waiting to come to the United States. But he's been there for three months with his family. And it's unclear why there's been a delay. The Sate Department says that they are trying to facilitate travel for those without documentation.

But that combined with some other setbacks, like a measles outbreak that paused flights to the U.S. a few months ago all contributed to these delays. And it weighs on a lot of these families who are waiting to start their new life. That also includes tens of thousands of Afghans who are still on domestic military bases. Now, the administration is targeting for mid-February to clear out those bases and get all of those families resettled. So far they've resettled around 48,000 Afghans in the United States, but it is still a long road ahead.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. Priscilla Alvarez, thank you for your reporting on both fronts.

Up next, one of the most influential people in NFL history has passed away. We reflect on the life and the legacy of Hall of Famer John Madden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:49] HARLOW: Well, a huge loss for football fans everywhere. John Madden, the legendary Hall of Fame coach and iconic broadcaster passing away unexpectedly yesterday at the age of 85. His enthusiasm and passion for the game was felt by so many over his six decades in it.

Our Coy Wire joins me now.

Coy, what a career he had. What a life.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy. Impossible really to quantify John Madden's impact on the sport of football. He was at least a three-fold legend. He's one of the most successful coaches in NFL history, he was this enthusiastic storyteller as an iconic broadcaster and, of course, his video game is legendary. Madden was a Hall of Fame coach leading the Raiders to a Super Bowl title in 1977. Never had a losing season in his ten-year career. And his winning percentage of 0.759, that's the highest of any head coach in NFL history with at least 100 games.

But his star truly soared, Poppy, when he stepped into that TV booth in 1979. He called 11 Super Bowls. He earned 16 sports Emmys during his 30 years of broadcasting. Al Michaels spent seven years working alongside of him in primetime and he said that it was like hitting the lottery. He said the term renaissance man is tossed around loosely, but john was as close as you can come. A , quote, the term "Renaissance Man" is tossed around a little too loosely these days, but John was as close as you can come. A dear friend, wonderful partner in the broadcast booth and a man who brought so much joy to so many people. I'll miss him enormously, unquote.

Madden had an especially close -- a special relationship with Packers' Hall of Fame quarterback Bret Favre. He tweeted, quote, we lost a larger than life legend in John Madden. My career was narrated by Coach, one of the best in the game. I'll always remember our pre-game meetings when we laughed and talked about anything but football. I'll miss my dear friend, unquote.

Now, of course, his legacy is going to live on through that Madden football game. It has sold more than 130 million copies worldwide. EA Sports called Madden a hero, a humble champion, a willing teacher and a forever coach.

And, Poppy, he was so detailed and disciplined with his work. He was an expert with the x's and o's. So he captured the football aficionados, but he also captured the everyday casual fan. He would use his telestrator on Thanksgiving Day, for example, to draw and circle which parts of the turkey you eat, Poppy and how to cut it just right. One-of-a-kind, no doubt.

HARLOW: Of course he did. And there was a guy named Coy Wire in one of those Madden games, so I hear. So, congrats for making the cut, my friend.

WIRE: Yes, it was a dream come true. Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thanks, Coy. Good to see you. Top of the hour. Good morning, everyone, I'm Poppy Harlow. I am so

glad you're with me this morning.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky defending her agency's decision to shorten recommended Covid-19 isolation and quarantine times on the heels of the United States just seeing its worst day of new infections, shattering its record average of daily new cases on Tuesday.

Dr. Walensky now saying the new guidance in part was based on what they thought people could tolerate and had nothing to do, she says, with the nationwide shortage of tests.

She also says changing isolation guidance from ten days to five days for those with asymptomatic infection was driven by evidence that most transmission occurs in the first five days.

[10:00:05]