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Judge: Ghislaine Maxwell Jury Must Keep Deliberating, Even On New Year's; Judge Denies Trump Aide's Request To Block Jan. 6th Bank Subpoena; Jan. 6th Committee Scales Back Request For Trump Documents; Defendants Compare Insurrection To 2020 Portland Protests But Trump- Appointed Judges Not Buying It; Legendary NFL Coach & Broadcaster John Madden Dead At 85; Afghans Stuck Aboard & At U.S. Bases Still Awaiting Resettlement; Taliban Ban Women From Making Long Road Trips Alone. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 29, 2021 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SONIA MOGHE, CNN REPORTER: And it's hard to know exactly what they're thinking behind those closed doors.

But what we can say is it appears this jury is taking its job seriously. They are combing through this testimony. They are asking lots of questions. And they're hard at work.

Now, earlier today, the federal judge overseeing this trial, Judge Alison Nathan, let the jury know, if they don't reach a verdict today, they'll likely need to continue to deliberate tomorrow and Friday.

Which were supposed to be days off, and even potentially on New Year's Day, which is supposed to be a holiday.

She's concerned about the increasing cases of coronavirus here in New York City. There's a 20 percent positivity rate.

She's concerned a juror will test positive, or other people involved in this trial will test positive, having to isolate and sending this whole process into a tailspin -- Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: OK. Sonia Moghe, thank you very much for the update from the courthouse.

Let's bring in former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti. He joins me.

Renato, what clue are you picking up from all of these questions the jurors are asking?

RENATO MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: First of all, I agree with the reporter that the jury is taking its job seriously. And we want juries to do that when there are serious crimes that have been alleged.

But I do think the defense has to be pretty happy with where they're at now because the jurors are asking, for example, for the transcripts of defense witnesses.

They asked for a transcript of an expert who testified for the defense about potential you know, issues with memory, things like that.

So I think the fact that the jurors are really puzzling through this has got to be encouraging for the defense that there may be --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Yes. But why does that tell you what the defense is maybe on the winning side here?

MARIOTTI: I don't know if they're on the winning side. But they were facing, I think, a pretty serious problem here, Alisyn.

There's a lot of juries that might look at this case and say, oh, we don't need to deliberate, this defendant is obviously guilty. And you know, they'll spend an hour eating their lunch then come back with a verdict.

Now, it's good that the jury's taking a lot of time with this. But what it tells me is that there's one or two jurors, in particular, who have some doubts, concerns, who want to be satisfied.

Now they may end up becoming satisfied and returning a guilty verdict.

But I think the defense may pull out a hung jury or may pull out a mistrial, for example, if the jury takes too long and one of them gets COVID.

That's precisely what I think the judge is concerned about.

CAMEROTA: In terms of the timing, the judge saying they would have to work through New Year's Eve day, and then through New Year's Day, and then through the Sunday, this coming Sunday.

Isn't that powerful incentive for them to wrap this up maybe before Friday?

MARIOTTI: Exactly. And that's part of the reason why Judge Nathan's done that.

She wants the jury to wrap this up because, if there's a mistrial here, Alisyn, she's got to do this all over again.

The judge is going to have to deal with the circus in her courtroom, and all of the time and all of the effort once again, which is going to set her behind on all of her other cases.

So she wants the jury to make up its mind. But she doesn't want to tell them they can't continue to deliberate.

Because, of course, they do have the right and they are obligated to deliberate until they reach a verdict they can all agree on.

CAMEROTA: Renato, at the heart of this, at the heart of the what the jury is deciding, is it trying to figure out if Ghislaine Maxwell knowingly led underage women to Jeffrey Epstein to be sexually abused or if she herself was a victim somehow? MARIOTTI: They're trying to decide -- I'll make it simple for viewers

-- was she in on it? In other words, did she know what a heinous thing she was doing to these girls? Did she really know?

Because, you know, the defense, in part, is going to that she was duped to an extent by Epstein herself, she didn't really know. She suggested, Alisyn, she was victimized to an extent.

The defense is trying to paint her in a somewhat sympathetic light, which is what they have to do. That's their job.

I think what the jury is trying to figure out is, was she really in on this or not? Because, obviously, they're considering some very, very serious crimes here.

CAMEROTA: From where we sit, from the outside, in the media world, how could she not have known what was going on in there?

Is each charge different? Might she have known about some things but not others?

MARIOTTI: I think that's part of it.

But you also have to remember, Alisyn, that it's easy to say things on social media and Twitter or someplace on social media.

It's a different thing to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a courtroom where there's going to be a lot of questions raised and very skilled lawyers asking difficult questions and presenting all sorts of doubt and experts who are injecting down into it.

In that bubble of a courtroom, in that bubble of a trial, things that seem obvious to you or me when we're talking about it on CNN may not be as obvious to those jurors in the case.

CAMEROTA: Good reminder. We'll see what happens today or tomorrow. It could come at any time.

Renato Mariotti, thank you.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

[14:35:00]

CAMEROTA: Well, the Biden administration has convinced the January 6th committee to back off a request for some Trump White House documents. We'll tell you why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Just into CNN, a federal judge just denied an emergency request from former President Trump's current spokesperson.

That spokesperson, Taylor Budowich, wanted the court to block his bank from handing over financial records to January 6th investigators.

[14:40:03]

So let's bring in CNN crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, we know the committee has been trying to follow the money on how the capitol riot was financed. So now will the committee get to see those bank records?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we don't actually know the answer to that yet.

It looks like Budowich may have missed a deadline, that the bank needed him to go to court and get an order that was an emergency to stop this subpoena from the House.

This was significant. It's the first one we knew about bank records.

And this denial that we saw today, we don't have a lot of information about it. There was a non-public hearing that the judge had.

But it denied his request for emergency intervention. The judge said it was because his request was moot at this time.

CAMEROTA: Whitney Wild, our law enforcement correspondent, has been working the phones and she joins us now as well.

So, Whitney, tell us what the committee is actually doing now.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, they're still -- they're trying to collect as much information as they can.

So they want to try to get these records from Taylor Budowich. But they know well they're going to have to work through these systems.

There are people on the committee who truly understand that people are going to be reluctant to give up pretty sensitive information. They're working through the system now.

But some of the news now is that the committee is acknowledging and accepting some boundaries when it comes to the immense amount of records they'd like to get out of the Trump White House.

What we've learn is that, earlier this month, the Biden administration took a look, as we knew they would, at the vast amount of records the House Select Committee wanted to get.

For a subset of national security documents, the House Select Committee and the Biden administration came to an agreement that some of these records would not go to the House Select Committee at this time.

What this shows is a couple of things.

I mean, if there was a criticism that this investigation is just limitless and it is just an effort to try to collect as much information as possible in order to weaponize that information for political gain.

What this show shows is that both the Biden administration and the House Select Committee acknowledge is there are some boundaries.

And then further, the Biden administration, which has been criticized for perhaps being too open, too willing to just release this vast amount of documents, also acknowledging there's a boundary here.

So we may see how this plays out. At this point, this is just a deferral for some of these documents.

There's always a chance that they might go back to this, go back to the drawing board and try to get these records.

But for now, there are some records they acknowledge they're not getting at the outset.

CAMEROTA: Then, Katelyn, let's talk about this.

How some of the rioters, the January 6th rioters, and their media apologists have been trying to compare what happened on January 6th ,with interrupting democracy and trying to hang the vice president, with the riots and protest and unrest in Portland, Oregon, in the summer of 2020.

So now these two Trump-appointed judges, as I understand it, are rejecting that comparison.

POLANTZ: That's right. So there's, there were two rioters that went to court, they're accused of crimes related to January 6th.

One is accused of throwing a lit firecracker into a line of Capitol Police officers during this really brutal and violent three-hour battle during the insurrection when Trump supporters were trying to overtake the capitol.

This particular rioter went to court and tried to make the argument that he was being persecuted politically.

Because the Portland rioters were charged with federal crimes similar to his but then those charges were dropped by the Justice Department.

So he and another rioter went to two different judges, as you said, both Trump appointees, Judge Trevor McFadden and Judge Carl Nichols.

They were trying to get more information about the Justice Department's decisions on prosecuting. And both of these judges rejected those attempts.

I can't put it better than Judge McFadden said it himself. In his opinion, he laid out exactly why the Portland riots are not the same as the January 6th insurrection.

McFadden wrote:

"Although both Portland and January 6th rioters attacked federal buildings, the Portland defendants primarily attacked at night, meaning they raged against a largely vacant courthouse."

"In contrast, the January 6th rioters attacked the capital in broad daylight and many entered it."

"Their actions made hundreds of federal officials in the capitol complex, members of Congress cower under chairs while staffers blockaded themselves in offices fearing physical attacks from the rioters."

So both of these cases from the riot defendants related to January 6th are ongoing. They're pleading not guilty. But they're not going to get the evidence they wanted to get as they're preparing for trial.

CAMEROTA: We'll see if that judge's reasoning quiets any of the false equivalency that we keep hearing in the media.

Meanwhile, Whitney Wild, Katelyn Polantz, thank you both very much for your reporting.

[14:44:56]

Well, he was a legend on the football field, in the broadcast booth, and for video gamers around the world. NFL icon, John Madden, has passed away. We reflect on his life and legacy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The sports world has lost a giant. John Madden, the legendary NFL coach, who turned his knowledge and love for the game into an award-winning career as a broadcaster, has died.

The league put out a statement saying Madden passed away unexpectedly Tuesday. He was 85 years old.

Madden was a commanding figure on the sideline and unmistakable voice on television. Million more fans from around the world love him from his widely successful video game.

[14:50:03]

Here's more on Madden's life from CNN's Andy Scholes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN MADDEN, FORMER HEAD COACH, OAKLAND RAIDERS & FORMER SPORTS BROADCASTER: I have never worked a day in my life. I went from player to coach to a broadcaster. And I am the luckiest guy in the world.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR (voice-over): Super Bowl-winning coach, pioneering broadcaster, video game icon, a larger-than-life personality, John Madden, was, by any definition, a true original.

During his 30-year broadcasting career, Madden was widely considered the voice of the National Football League.

MADDEN: You have to attack them with a passion. You have to attack them deep with a passion.

SCHOLES: His passionate way of calling games with unique catchphrases --

MADDEN: Packers came out, it went boom and they got 10 points.

SCHOLES: -- and a love for using a Telestrator, helped explain the game to hardcore and casual fans across America.

He called NFL games for all four major networks, announcing 11 Super Bowls and earning 16 Sports Emmys during his time in the broadcast booth.

Madden's NFL playing career was short lived. He was drafted in 1958 by the Philadelphia Eagles, but a knee injury cut it all short.

That's when he decided to try his hand at coaching, eventually becoming the youngest head coach in professional football history at the age of 33.

In 1977, he led the Oakland Raiders to a Super Bowl victory and is still the franchise's all-time wins leader.

Madden was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame for his coaching career in 2006.

MADDEN: BOOM! Tough Actin' Tinactin.

SCHOLES: Madden was a television advertiser's dream, becoming the pitch man for numerous brands.

MADDEN: Let me tell you, Ace is the place for me.

SCHOLES: In 1988, Madden entered the video game world, lending his voice and name to what's now call Madden NFL.

MADDEN: You know, anything that goes that far, that fast, want to have dinner in and in-flight movie.

SCHOLES: His video game is still the most popular football video game ever, selling more than 100 million copies worldwide.

Whether it was his video game, his broadcasting career or as a Hall of Fame coach, his passion for the game is what will always be remembered.

MADDEN: Some of us think maybe we will be immortal, that we'll live forever. But when you really think about it, we're not going to be. But I say this, through this bust with these guys in that hall, we will be forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: What a message. And what a life.

All right, next up, we have an update on Afghanistan. Nearly 3,000 Afghan refugees are still waiting to be resettled in the U.S. We try to figure out why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:13]

CAMEROTA: It's been four months since the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, but close to 2,900 evacuees are still waiting to be resettled.

The frantic scramble had thousands of Afghans leave home with few, if any, belongings, including crucial paperwork. The lack of documentation and other setbacks have left many in limbo.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is part of the team that's following all of these developments.

Priscilla, what have you learned?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, Alisyn, for the thousands waiting abroad and here at military bases is the United States, this wait has been excruciating.

Afghans describe being depressed and desperate after fleeing Afghanistan earlier this year.

In fact, one Afghan that we spoke with says he's been waiting at a transit country that is a location where the U.S. has sent Afghans to be vetted and processed.

He's been waiting there three months with his family.

Now, he told us that prior to leaving Afghanistan, he had turned in his passport to the U.S. embassy in Kabul.

But that was before the Taliban took over. And once they did, he didn't get this paperwork back.

And that is the type of documentation that sometimes is lacking in these cases and can make processing all the more difficult.

Now the State Department says they're trying to facilitate travel for Afghans without documentation. But it's a pressing challenging for this administration both abroad and at home.

Tens of thousands of Afghans still on domestic military bases. The administration has relocated about 48,000 Afghans into many communities but many more are waiting.

And one of the challenges there is the housing crunch. There's just not enough housing options for many of these Afghans.

Now the administration is targeting mid-February to start to clear out those domestic bases, but it's still a long road ahead -- Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Priscilla, obviously, there were fears when the Taliban took over again in Afghanistan that women, primarily, would be thrust back into the dark ages.

So what is happening now with women?

ALVAREZ: Well, another example of that, the Taliban is now putting restrictions on solo travel of women, long-distance travel.

And the State Department has said that they are going to continue to push for women's rights.

In fact today, Secretary of State Tony Blinken said, or announced two officials to lead efforts to support women and girls in a statement.

He said, quote, "We desire a peaceful, stable and secure Afghanistan where all Afghans can live and thrive in political, economic and social inclusivity."

But still, Alisyn, as you mentioned, the Taliban putting out restrictions that are of issue to women in that country. And the administration today designating officials to look into that.

[14:59:54]

CAMEROTA: All right, Priscilla Alvarez, thank you very much for the update.

It's the start of a brand-new hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Thanks for joining me.