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Staying Loyal to Trump; Redistricting Fights; Biden to Hold Call With Putin; Omicron Surge. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 29, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the start of a brand-new hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Thanks for joining me.

Nearly two years into the pandemic, the U.S. is seeing more coronavirus infections than ever before. The seven-day average of new cases has hit 265,000 a day, mostly fueled by the Omicron variant. But Omicron is proving to be unlike past peaks. The last time the U.S. saw case numbers this high, which was last January, the average daily death count was more than twice what it is today. Still, reminiscent of last winter, the long lines for COVID tests.

Today the White House gave more detail on when relief is coming, and when more tests will be available. The White House team also outlined the federal support heading to these states on your screen, which are getting more medical staffing and testing sites.

There's also an alert from the FDA about these add home antigen tests. It's a little confusing, because the FDA says those tests are not as sensitive to detecting Omicron, but the White House COVID team stressed today that at-home tests still offer -- quote -- "an important use."

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins me now.

So, Jeremy, I know that you just spoke with the White House COVID-19 response director. So what did he tell you?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.

I asked Jeff Zients during this the coronavirus briefing specifically about those 500 million rapid at-home tests that the White House is set to ship to Americans beginning next month.

And the news that he gave me is that they are still in the process of finalizing the contract to obtain those, but he said that he does expect that contract to be completed late next week. Of course, that would be the end of the first week of January, meaning that Americans likely won't begin to see those at-home COVID tests until the middle of January.

He said the details are still forthcoming in terms of exactly how the White House is going to finalize the delivery mechanism for those tests, including that Web site that they have promised to get up where Americans can request to get these at-home tests sent to them for free.

So we are still waiting for a lot of details. And, frankly, this just speaks to the gap of time that exists now and is continuing to exist between these testing shortages over the holiday season and when Americans can finally expect to get these rapid at-home coronavirus tests.

Of course, I made all of this you mentioned that news from the FDA where they are saying that these antigen tests may be less sensitive against Omicron. But, still, they don't see that necessarily changing their strategy. The White House doesn't see that changing their strategy as it relates to the use of these antigen tests. They still see it as an important tool against the virus.

It can still detect Omicron, even if it may be less sensitive. So it's an important tool. But, of course, the PCR test still remains the gold standard. And, on that front, Jeff Zients told me that the White House is still working to set up more federal testing sites, including in places like New York, stressing in particular that this testing situation doesn't look the same around the country.

There are places like New York and New Jersey, for example, that are facing more testing shortages than other parts of the country. And that's where the federal government is targeting those additional efforts to stand up federally run testing centers -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jeremy Diamond, thank you for all of that. Important update.

Meanwhile, Washington, D.C., the mayor there just announced that all students and staff must show proof of a negative COVID test before returning to school next week. And, in New York City, new cases and pediatric hospitalizations continue to grow, and many parents are wondering how to keep their kids from getting sick.

So, to address this, the city has revamped its COVID testing policies to try to keep kids in school.

CNN's Alexandra Field joins me now.

So, what's this new testing plan, Alexandra?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Alisyn.

Look, the idea here is that city schools want to be able to catch cases more quickly, but they also want to be able to put kids back in the classroom faster, the city saying that schools really are the safest place for children to be, the new testing plan aimed at keeping them that way.

So what they're doing is, they're relying on these at-home test kits. They say, if they have a positive case, they will be giving two kits per day for seven days to all the children in that classroom. In order to get back to the classroom, you will have to be asymptomatic and to have two negative tests in a row. You can then return the next day. So this is a balancing act. We're going to be seeing school districts

across the country doing this, just trying to figure out how to identify those cases and take care of them through these testing mechanisms. On top of these rapid at-home tests, they're also going to be doubling the number of PCR tests that they perform in city schools as another layer of protection here.

But, really, the mayor-elect is saying he believes schools are the safest place for kids to be, and this is some proof that the city is really committed to keeping kids in the classroom, even amidst a surge that has led to a rising a number of cases, not just in adults, but, of course, in children, and also this rising number of hospitalizations.

It's something the city is experiencing firsthand, a fivefold increase in pediatric hospitalizations in New York City in just the last three weeks. It's alarming when parents hear that. But, Alisyn, we also have to keep in mind that the number of children who are hospitalized, while it is going up, remains extremely small, relative to the number of adults hospitalized with COVID.

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CAMEROTA: Right. And we also do want to find out what their symptoms are once they're hospitalized, how bad it is right now in this current wave. And we're about to get to that.

So, Alex Field, thank you very much for all of that.

So, with me now are two doctors on the front lines at Children's Hospitals.

We have Dr. Claudia Hoyen. She is a pediatric infectious disease specialist at U.H. Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital. And Dr. David Kimberlin is co-director of Pediatric Infectious Diseases Division at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Thank you both for being here. I know how busy you are.

Dr. Hoyen, first, as we -- as you just heard, millions of kids across the country are scheduled to go back to school on January 3, five days from now. Is that a good idea?

DR. CLAUDIA HOYEN, U.H. RAINBOW BABIES AND CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: At this point, as I think was just noted, there's a lot of variability around what different parts of the country are seeing.

I know, here in Northeast Ohio, we're a little bit behind places like New York, New Jersey, Houston, in that we were still kind of getting over our Delta surge, since we were the last to surge with Delta, as we are now coming in to this Omicron variant surge.

And so I think that, again, we know how to keep children safe in school. We know that masking is effective. And if kids are symptomatic, of course, they should stay home, if they have had an exposure, if you're able to do testing. Again, there are many layers that we can add to keep children in

school as we move through the next few weeks. As we know, it's not only the safest place, but it's the place that they need to be. The last two years have really taken a toll on our children. And so we all need to do what we can, whether that's getting vaccinated, making sure we're masking.

Here in Ohio, the Ohio Children's Hospital Association today actually sent a letter to the governor and to all the school superintendents, thanking those school districts who are continuing to mask and asking respectfully that, as we're bringing kids back to school in the middle of rising numbers of Omicron here in Ohio, that they also consider having masking in those schools as well.

CAMEROTA: Yes, because I know that a lot of places in Ohio have dropped the mask mandates.

So, Dr. Kimberlin, to you. You're in Alabama.

Do you still think that, as we have just heard from Dr. Hoyen and we heard from Alex Field, so many people keep saying schools are the safest place for kids to be. But with this rise, exponential rise in cases right now, do you think schools are still the safest place for kids to be?

DR. DAVID KIMBERLIN, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: Well, much of what we know, obviously, is based on our prior experience.

And Omicron is brand-new. So I think we have to start by recognizing that Omicron is an entity that we will be learning a lot more about over these next handful of weeks. Now, that said, I think you have got to also draw on the experiences you have had in the past.

And we simply have seen over and over again that schools can be opened safely with prior variants of the virus and the original virus, and really spread within schools can reflect the broader spread within a community, but it's not -- they're not really the -- sort of the starting or the hot spot for spreads within communities, generally speaking.

So that's point number one. Point number two is that we have a couple of really good studies now, California and I believe Illinois, taking an approach of test to stay, basically.

And so what you do there is similar, I think, to what New York is trying a variation on. And that is to be tested. And if you test negative, you have had an exposure and you test negative, you can come to school that day, and you test the next day. And you do that for a certain number of days and try to get people in the classroom and staying in the classroom.

And I really do think -- I agree with Dr. Hoyen. Children have taken a beating with this virus in this pandemic. And they need to get back in school and they want to be back in school.

CAMEROTA: Yes. KIMBERLIN: And that's where we want them to be as well.

CAMEROTA: I want to hear from both of you in terms of what you're seeing in your hospitals.

You are on the front lines of COVID cases in kids. And the head of the CDC, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said something interesting this morning that got all of our attention in terms of whether kids are showing up at the hospital because of their COVID symptoms or because it's an incidental pickup once they're at the hospital.

So let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: This is a common time of year for children to be admitted in a hospital.

And some other things we're seeing in the trends is, they're not heading to the ICU more often that we can tell. Many of them are actually coming in for another reason, But they happen to be tested when they come in and they're found incidentally to have COVID.

[15:10:13]

And third, and really importantly, most of those children are not yet vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Dr. Hoyen, does that track with what you're seeing?

HOYEN: Yes, I think, again, like I said, in Northeast Ohio, we are just a little bit behind the curve in terms of what other places are seeing.

So I think that what we're seeing still at our children's hospital, and as we go through the next week, as Dr. Kimberlin, we will be learning a lot. We do have children who are in the hospital simply for COVID. We have children in our ICUs with COVID.

We do have a couple of kids who have incidentally tested positive. So it may be that kind of start of the Omicron that we're seeing where kids might be relatively asymptomatic. But, again, it's too early for us to know the exact course of what will happen in children.

And we will be keeping in contact with our colleagues around the country to be sure that we're doing all we can to keep kids safe while they're here.

CAMEROTA: How about you, Dr. Kimberlin?

KIMBERLIN: Well, across much of the South, our Delta wave receded by the time we got toward the end of October, very beginning of November.

HOYEN: Right. KIMBERLIN: So, we had a pretty nice period of a handful of weeks

until just after Thanksgiving.

And now, in terms of at least cases, not necessarily hospitalizations, but our cases are -- it's almost a vertical kind of line. And so, really, it's something that I anticipate will have a lag period, and we will start seeing increased hospitalizations as well. Even if, even if Omicron is a little less or somewhat less severe compared with Delta, as an example, it is so much more infectious and therefore so many more people are getting infected.

Our positivity rates in our emergency room in our children's hospital have increased sevenfold in two weeks. And so even if there are not as many being admitted in terms of likelihood per person, you get such a large number, that you're going to have more people admitted.

And so we're waiting for that. As Dr. Hoyen said, we're watching anxiously -- that's a nervous anxiousness -- to see what comes out.

HOYEN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Hoyen, did you want to quickly add something?

HOYEN: Right, it's just -- yes, I just was going to say, to his point exactly, it's as if we're watching that train come down the tracks, I think I said this the other day, and not trying -- hoping it doesn't derail.

Just the sheer number of children getting infected, even if a smaller percentage of those children get sick, it still could be very overwhelming for children's hospitals.

So, again, we wait anxiously. We prepare continuously. And we are ready for whatever comes our way.

CAMEROTA: Well, we're thinking of you. Thanks so much to both of you, Dr. Hoyen, Dr. Kimberlin, for time to talk to us.

KIMBERLIN: Thank you.

HOYEN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, some of former President Trump's inner circle who have defied January 6 Committee are popping up at Mar-a-Lago. Details on who is staying there and in the president's -- former president's good graces.

Plus, a critical phone call. President Biden and President Putin are expected to speak tomorrow, so we will go live to Moscow on what to expect.

And new details on that deadly shooting spree in Denver. We're learning more about the gunman and the five victims. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:17:56]

CAMEROTA: President Biden will hold a phone call with Russian leader Vladimir Putin tomorrow.

According to the White House, President Putin requested this call. And this comes as tensions on the Ukraine border remain very high. Earlier this week, Russia announced it was withdrawing 10,000 troops from its border with Ukraine after weeks of military drills in the region.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live for us in Moscow.

So, Nic, what are you learning?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, very little from the Kremlin, more from the White House.

We do know that, from the Pentagon as well, that they did put up a spy plane over Ukraine that would have given them oversight of what Russia was doing with its troops along the border with Ukraine. That was just in the past couple of days, perhaps an opportunity to see if Russia really had pulled back those 10,000 troops.

What we're hearing from administration officials is that they're not seeing any reduction of tensions by Russia at the moment, still the presence of Russian troops close to the border with Ukraine.

And the point that's being made is that, if Russia really wants to engage and make progress in these talks, there needs to be an atmosphere of de-escalation, that there needs to be some very serious and concerted high-level engagement.

Now, the conversation that President Biden will have with President Putin is something that we will get a readout from both sides, but it will perhaps be in the days afterwards, as when they -- as we found when they spoke about two or three weeks ago, that we got a more nuanced understanding of what had been said.

And on that occasion, it was President Putin who had said a few days later that he'd called President Biden out on where NATO troops are relative to Russia's border. And what we know from President Biden going into this or what we know from White House officials, at least, going into this current round of talks is that NATO has a backup plan, that, if Russia does invade Ukraine, then NATO is going to put more troops on the Eastern border of Europe as a protective measure.

[15:20:01]

That's something that's also not going to sit particularly well with President Putin.

CAMEROTA: We will see what comes of this phone call tomorrow.

Nic Robertson, thank you for explaining all of that.

Well, back here: Instead of showing up for the January 6 Committee, some of former President Trump's loyalists are showing up at Mar-a- Lago.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:00]

CAMEROTA: Redistricting commissions in both Virginia and Michigan just finished redrawing their congressional maps last night; 25 states have now completed this process, but several legal challenges claim that any map drawn after the controversial 2020 census could discriminate against voters of color.

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider is here.

So, Jessica, what do we know about how these maps are being redrawn?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, in some states, like Texas, North Carolina, both sides are actually pointing fingers.

And it turns out race is emerging as the flash point here. So, Republican-led legislatures in some states are drawing some of these maps. And some lawmakers are speaking out, saying that they have been sued in years past for factoring in race. So, now many of those lawmakers claim they're actually ignoring race while redrawing the lines.

But then you got the other side. And that's Democratic lawmakers and other advocates. They're contending there's no way you can really ignore race. People drawing the legislative lines know where these different populations live, they say. So the allegation is that they are factoring that in, even if they're not admitting to it.

And complicating matters across the country here, this is actually the first redistricting cycle since the Supreme Court essentially eliminated a provision of the Voting Rights Act. That provision required areas with a history of racial discrimination to get pre- approval for their maps. But now that requirement is gone. And states are really moving forward with free rein over these maps.

So, as states are increasingly unveiling their new maps using the 2020 census data, the lawsuits are mounting and starting to flood the courts. In fact, we saw the Justice Department suing the state of Texas earlier this month, the DOJ saying that Texas' new maps discriminate against Latinos and other minorities.

And there are several other lawsuits in various states from private entities. And, Alisyn, this is really just the beginning. We will be seeing major court battles queued up in key states. And those will unfold really and may not even come to a final decision just before the next election cycle that we see in 2022.

So, a lot unfolding here. It will be a very litigious next few months -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It sounds like. It already is.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Jessica Schneider, thank you.

All right, we now know approximately when the January 6 Committee will make their findings public. The panel wants to have an interim report about what has learned by summer of 2022, with the final report likely out before next year's midterm elections.

CNN's Sara Murray joins me now.

So, Sara, many of the former president's most fervent loyalists are, as we know, refusing to cooperate. So tell us more.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

It's a balancing act for a number of these Trump loyalists to decide how they're going to navigate the committee. And a number of his closest allies are essentially dragging their feet or refusing to cooperate altogether, just on the calculation that it's more important to them to stay in Trump's good graces.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Dan Scavino, everybody, the famous Dan Scavino.

MURRAY (voice-over): Defying Congress, evading questions and praising the former president, a consistent strategy emerging among some Trump loyalists when it comes to January 6.

As the House Select Committee struggled in October to serve Dan Scavino with a subpoena, Scavino took to Twitter: "The dangerous and false narrative of me trying to avoid or evade a subpoena is a disgrace. Not one attempt was made to contact, serve me when I was at Mar-a-Lago for six days."

Scavino, who was eventually served, hired a lawyer, quietly engaged with the committee, and still has not testified. His status as a witness is in limbo. Scavino's allegiance to Trump on full display in a December jaunt to Mar-a-Lago, at game four of the World Series in Atlanta, and at an October rally in Iowa...

TRUMP: Hello, Iowa. I'm thrilled to be back.

MURRAY: ... where Trump railed against the committee.

TRUMP: The left's new obsession is the unselect committee. They have an unselect committee.

MURRAY: As the committee seeks information about roles Trump allies played up to or during the events of January 6, some loyalists like Scavino are slow-walking, stonewalling or snubbing the committee, all while doubling down on their allegiance to Trump as he ponders another run for office. ALYSSA FARAH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's 100 percent of the

calculation. What is the death grip on the Republican Party right now is the idea of Donald Trump running again in 2024, and people not wanting to risk losing their stature with him.

MURRAY: Roger Stone, a longtime Trump ally and sometimes political adviser, pleaded the Fifth, rather than answer the committee's questions.

ROGER STONE, ALLY OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP: I did my civic duty, and I responded, as required by law.

MURRAY: After Stone's last appearance before lawmakers in 2017, during the Russia probe...

STONE: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

MURRAY: ... he was convicted on charges of lying to and obstructing Congress and witness tampering. Trump pardoned him.

Recently, Stone popped up at a Mar-a-Lago event, and posted about chatting with Trump: "Donald Trump is my first, second and third choice for 2024."

For someone would-be witnesses, their fealty to Trump comes at a higher price. The House recommended contempt charges for former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, who is now suing the committee.

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: This is about Donald Trump and about actually going after him once again.

MURRAY: Despite Meadows' work to curry favor with Trump, a source tells CNN their relationship has been strained, both from embarrassing