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Ghislaine Maxwell Guilty on Four Sex Trafficking Charges; Trump Keeps Fighting to Keep January 6 Records Private. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired December 30, 2021 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
HARLOW: And moments ago one of the women who took the stand offered these thoughts on the verdict, calling it a tremendous relief.
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ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN VICTIM: I wasn't sure that this day would ever come. And I just feel so grateful that the jury believed us and sent a strong message, that perpetrators of sexual abuse and exploitation will be held accountable, no matter how much power and privilege they have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: CNN's Sonia Moghe was in the courthouse throughout the trial.
And you were there when the verdict was announced. We're also hearing from another accuser of Epstein, who did not testify during the trial; that's Virginia Giuffre.
Can you tell us a little bit more about what she's saying in reaction?
SONIA MOGHE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think what Virginia is saying is something that is echoing or is being echoed by so many other survivors of abuse. They're calling this one step toward justice.
These women had been dealt such a big blow back in 2019, after Jeffrey Epstein, who had just been arrested on sex trafficking charges, died by suicide. They thought they were getting justice then and they were dealt that blow.
With this trial, they have that one step toward justice. Now there are many women who have spoken out publicly, like Virginia Giuffre, who did not testify at the trial. But here is what Virginia said after that verdict came down.
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VIRGINIA ROBERTS GIUFFRE, EPSTEIN VICTIM: We were told constantly, you know, these people will never go to jail, they're too powerful, they're too rich. And we live in a new day. And it just goes to show that, you know, this is not the end. This is just the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOGHE: "This is just the beginning." Those words coming from one accuser and it is the question that so many other accusers and members of the public have.
Will any other people of power, who were allegedly associated with this conduct, be held accountable as well, Poppy?
That's something we'll try to stay on top of.
HARLOW: A huge remaining question. Sonia Moghe, thank you very much for the reporting.
Areva Martin is our legal analyst and an attorney, she joins me now.
You tweeted after the verdict came down, quote, "#MeToo isn't just about male predators; it is about all abusers."
How significant is this conviction on five of six counts, including the most serious count that is sex trafficking of a minor, against Ghislaine Maxwell?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Poppy.
I think this conviction is incredibly important and significant, because we have seen powerful men -- Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby -- who have been brought to justice and have been convicted for their predatory actions.
We have not seen a female, have not seen a woman, like Maxwell, brought to justice for her sexual predatory actions. So I think this is a huge step forward, when you think about the #MeToo movement and the history of that movement and how far we have come.
We are at a point now, where women can come forward, tell their stories of being sexually abused by predators, like Maxwell and Epstein, and be believed. I've been practicing law for 20 years. This is a huge sea change in the way that these cases are brought and prosecuted.
HARLOW: You make a really interesting note, that the testimony of the four victims in this trial was surprisingly consistent.
How critical was that?
Even given different times of abuse, et cetera, how critical was that to getting this conviction? MARTIN: Yes, I think that was incredibly powerful. When you think about these four women, all having very different but yet very similar experiences with Maxwell and Epstein; their predatory actions, the sexual assaults that they endured happened at different times, they happened at different locations.
Yet they told a very similar narrative, of Maxwell grooming them, of gaining their trust, taking them shopping, taking them to movies, being that trusted -- almost like that big sister, that mentor, all along knowing she was preparing them to engage in these sexual acts or to be victimized by Epstein and his pals.
We should also note this wasn't just Jeffrey Epstein; other powerful men were involved in this illegal sex ring.
HARLOW: Another Epstein accuser, Annie Farmer, said this morning she really hopes that the DA's office will, in her words, continue to investigate so others will be held accountable for the ways they abuse people.
And you also heard Virginia Giuffre just say, "This is just the beginning."
How likely is it that this is just the beginning in terms of charges against others?
MARTIN: I hope it is just the beginning. I hope you see others brought to justice, that we see others prosecuted, indicted and tried in the way that we saw Maxwell.
We know that the prosecutors in this case have said this is an ongoing investigation. And some pretty powerful names have been dropped with respect to men who flew on Epstein's plane.
[09:35:00]
MARTIN: Who visited him at his many homes throughout the country and even abroad. And these women, many of the women who were victimized by Epstein and Maxwell, talked about other men, who were also engaging in sexual acts with minors.
So I hope that prosecutors feel emboldened by this verdict that happened yesterday and that they will use that momentum, that they have now, to go after those other men.
HARLOW: Areva Martin, thank you so much.
Well, ahead, it has been such a struggle through the pandemic but now schools will soon face the Omicron variant, as kids head back to the classroom after the holidays. What teachers want to see done to protect little ones and themselves -- next.
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[09:40:00]
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HARLOW: Welcome back.
The Omicron variant is now fueling a record case surge in the United States. But hospitalizations are about half of what they were at their pandemic peak.
Still, as students across the country are getting ready to go back to the classroom next week, government data show hospitalizations from COVID in children 17 and under are nearing record highs across several regions.
Let me bring in Randi Weingarten, the president of the American Federation of Teachers. She leads the nation's second largest teachers' union.
I believe it's 1.7 million of our educators that you represent, so thank you so much and good morning.
RANDI WEINGARTEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: Thank you. Good morning to you, Poppy.
HARLOW: So the mayor of Washington, D.C., says all children have to show negative test results before coming to school next Wednesday. Right here in New York City, schools are going to open up on Monday, despite a spike in cases across the country.
What needs to happen for our schools to open up for our kids safely?
WEINGARTEN: That's a big question with Omicron. So number one, everybody wants schools to be in person.
Number two, we learned something about -- enough about Omicron to know this: highly transmissible but, if you're vaccinated and boosted, which is why it is dangerous for kids, really dangerous for kids under 5, then you have less illness.
And so what it means is you're going to hear the word testing, testing, testing, testing all the time. This is what I think we have to do. And you're seeing this in New York; you're seeing this in D.C.; you're seeing this in as many places as we can, testing, trust, transparency, (INAUDIBLE) masks, good ventilation, vaccines.
And if Mom and Dad haven't gotten boosted yet or if kids who can haven't gotten boosted yet, get boosted as your New Year's -- as one of the things you do this week.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: You just talked about vaccines and I know where you stand personally and where the union stands on teacher vaccinations.
But I just want to make really clear to the viewers, is the American Federation of Teachers now supportive of mandatory vaccination for all students 5 and over?
WEINGARTEN: You know, look, I think that that's very fraught right now. I know personally --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I know it is but it is important what you say on it, right?
It is critical what you say on it right now.
WEINGARTEN: So I think ultimately -- I think we have to get through this month in terms of testing right now for this month is really important. And if somebody tests positive, they have to be home.
If there is an exposure and you are -- and parents are willing to do tests to stay, that's really important because we have to stop the transmissibility right now. We're going to see the same staff shortages that we see in airlines and in the transit.
And you'll see schools closed, even places that want to stay open, because of people getting sick. So that's why I say trust and transparency.
In terms of vaccines, I think what Gavin Newsom did in California is really the best model, which is that the semester after they are -- they go from emergency use to full authorization. And the FDA has done everything that they need to do, that's what California has said. That is the semester that they become mandatory.
HARLOW: And you support that nationally?
WEINGARTEN: And I personally support that. The union hasn't taken a position on that.
HARLOW: Why not?
WEINGARTEN: Personally I support that and -- because we haven't -- our California federation has and they support it and, you know, generally I believe that we will take that position and support it because we believe in vaccines.
But right now it is about testing and making sure that, if somebody is positive on that antigen test, they stay home and they don't get shamed and blamed for it.
HARLOW: Yes, thank you for clarifying that. That is an important point.
There was a really fascinating profile on you a few weeks ago in "The New York Times" and you said, remote learning is not going to help kids. I want your response to what Dr. Peter Hotez, who helped develop a new vaccine for COVID, what he just said to me this week.
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DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: I wouldn't do it now in terms of what they're proposing.
[09:45:00]
HOTEZ: You've got a screaming level of transmission in the northeast, in New York City and Washington, D.C., trying to open schools at this point. It is hard to imagine how things will go well. There is just too high a level of virus transmission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He suggested keep kids home longer, don't send them back, maybe extend the school year into the summer.
What do you make of that?
Should we not send our kids back now?
WEINGARTEN: I think, Poppy, I think the dilemma is that you have a lot of smart people all over the country, who have, you know, very different views on what to do.
And then you also have lots of misinformation. Dr. Hotez is a very respected doctor and I think what Texas Hospital -- Children's Hospital has just done is amazing in terms of the vaccines for kids.
But at the end of the day, what we know is that if we can get the schools open and keep them open -- and we kept 99 percent of them open before December -- if we can do that and have, you know, just sporadic closures because of the transmissibility of Omicron, we're going to be doing everyone a service.
If Omicron goes from what happened, 240,000 cases to 400,000 cases, to all of a sudden, you know, such levels that it is impossible, then, thank God, we have a remote option that we can use for kids.
But at the end of the day, if we can get them open and keep them open, after the vacation break, we should. But we can't blame places like Cleveland, who just said that they can't, they're going to stay closed for a week; D.C. extended for two days to get everybody to have a negative test.
These are places -- everyplace is trying to do the best they can for kids. That's why we just need the testing. And we also need to make sure that people are wearing well-fitted masks. And for those who can, please get a vaccine or get a booster. That will help you make sure that you don't get seriously ill.
HARLOW: You called this, I mean, even before Omicron, you said this, "What we're heading into is going to be the hardest school year ever."
I think that's so hard to imagine, given how hard it was at the beginning of the pandemic, when there was sort of no road map. But that's what we're up against.
And just a few weeks ago, you wrote a letter to the school secretary of education and the CDC director, asking for what you called an offramp for masks.
WEINGARTEN: Yes.
HARLOW: Now what, with Omicron?
WEINGARTEN: Well, you can't have an offramp for masks in the middle of this hugely transmissible moment. But I think that parents and educators need to know that the metrics that people are thinking about, metrics about how to ultimately unmask kids.
And there are some ideas about how to do that, which is, you know, Massachusetts had an idea about how to do that. There is a few epidemiologists that have ideas about how to do that.
But at the end of the day, we need to -- everybody yearns for normalcy. You're not going to have normalcy in the middle of a Omicron tsunami. Right now we have to make sure that people are safe.
And so, you know -- but I do think we need to listen. You know, every teacher will tell you that the -- that the partnership between teachers and parents are essential to help kids thrive.
And so, you know, whereas the right wing is trying to divide teachers and parents, all of us who care about kids have to bring teachers and parents together. And this is -- the reason I say this is the hardest year, even before this, is because -- think about even all those TikTok challenges that were happening during this year.
Think about the triggering, the anxiety, the threats of violence, the emotional and social issues that come up because of isolation. And we're not even getting to the issues of academics.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We saw the surgeon general's -- I don't mean to interrupt. The surgeon general's report was just absolutely shocking and heartbreaking.
WEINGARTEN: Yes, it was devastating.
HARLOW: I'm sorry we have to go. But we'll have you back. We'll have you back. Thank you very much for the time this morning.
WEINGARTEN: Take care.
HARLOW: Using a failed argument?
[09:50:00]
HARLOW: Up next, why former president Donald Trump wants the Supreme Court to look at a "Washington Post" article in his fight against the January 6th commission and why it didn't work before.
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HARLOW: Welcome back.
Attorneys for former president Trump have submitted a new filing asking the Supreme Court to read "The Washington Post." Not the whole thing; specifically a "Post" interview with the chair of the January 6th committee, Congress man Bennie Thompson, who suggested that Trump's delay in stopping the Capitol riot could lead to a criminal referral to the Department of Justice.
The Supreme Court is currently considering whether to even take up the former president's case over White House records.
[09:55:00]
HARLOW: Let's go to my colleague, Whitney Wild.
What's interesting to me about this argument by the lawyers is the appellate court, the court of appeals, rejected exactly the same argument.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As did a judge before that at the district court level. They're saying this is basically a law enforcement investigation, pretending to be an investigation toward making a legislative purpose.
However, this is actually one of the arguments that, in the very first hearing, a district court judge really pushed Trump attorneys on.
She said, so what, you have to have a law drawn up before you start an investigation?
That sort of defies logic.
The reality is that the committee has never been -- has never been shy about saying, look, if we find criminal activity, we're referring it to DOJ.
So you know, while that is not the purpose of the investigation, they're certainly not shying away from it. But Poppy, the committee has made abundantly clear over and over that the purpose here is for drafting legislation to ensure this never happens again. As you point out, the argument's been downed twice.
HARLOW: Whitney Wild, thanks for the reporting in Washington for us this morning.
Still ahead, I'll speak to a doctor on the COVID front lines in Boston, as the virus sends a rising number of children to the hospital.
