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Ghislaine Maxwell Facing Up to 65 Years in Prison; Biden Set to Speak to Putin; Jobless Claims Near Historic Low; COVID Cases Rising in United States. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 30, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Ryan Nobles in Washington, D.C., filling in today for Ana Cabrera.

And we begin this hour with breaking news in the nation's COVID-19 pandemic. There are two major headlines this hour. A source tells CNN that the Food and Drug Administration is expected to broaden eligibility for the Pfizer vaccine boosters to people ages 12 and 15 in the coming days, that development first reported by "The New York Times."

And, secondly, a new advisory on the cruise line industry.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here.

Elizabeth, can you walk us through this booster announcement?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just as adults have been getting boosters, or, I should say, people over 16 have been getting boosters, now we're hearing that soon 12 to 15-year- olds will be able to get boosters.

So let's take a look at the numbers and what it means for this age group. So, as we speak, about four million children ages 12 to 15 are at least six months past their second shot. In other words, once they can get boosters, they will be eligible for boosters.

Another 4.7 million have been vaccinated more recently. And so that means that they would be able to get boosters in the coming months. But, Ryan, really the most important number here is kind of an unfortunate number, which is that more than a third of children this age haven't even gotten one shot. The initial vaccination is what's even more important than the

booster. And more than a third of 12-to-15-year-olds have not even gotten one shot. So that needs to be improved, but certainly good news that this age group can get boosters. We know that that helps fight Omicron -- Ryan.

NOBLES: Yes, there will probably be a lot of parents somewhat relieved by that news.

But, Elizabeth, we also have some other news from the CDC that came in just a few minutes ago. They're weighing in now on cruise ship travel amid these recent outbreaks aboard dozens of ships. What's the CDC now saying about cruise ship travel?

COHEN: So, they have made the warning up to its highest level and -- or up to a high level. And they're saying, look, even if you're vaccinated, we would suggest that you not go on cruise ships.

And this is because of Omicron. Omicron is so transmissible. Outbreaks happen on cruise ships. And so the combination of being on a ship and such a transmissible variant, the CDC is now making this warning.

NOBLES: OK, Elizabeth Cohen leading us off this hour with two big pieces of news as it relates to COVID and the pandemic.

We appreciate it, Elizabeth.

And let's continue this conversation.

Joining us now is viral researcher and internal medicine specialist Dr. Jorge Rodriguez.

Dr. Rodriguez, first off, just tell us, how significant is this news that boosters are just days away from being available to 12-to-15- year-olds?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Ryan, for having me on.

I think that's actually excellent news. I think the largest segment of the population that can be vaccinated and has been vaccinated, but is still unprotected to a great degree, are children. And, as statistics are showing now, the number of pediatric cases -- and that's anyone really under the age of 16 or so -- that is being hospitalized has quintupled, in some places, is almost 10 times greater.

So, in this, the most contagious part so far of the pandemic, is essential, essential that children in that age group get boosted, so that they can have their highest chance of being protected.

NOBLES: And if you're a parent watching at home and you have a child in that age range, when would they be eligible for a booster?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, if it's just like adults, and it appears it's going to be, if they have received their final vaccination of Pfizer or Moderna over six months ago, then they are eligible for the booster right now.

If they received the Johnson & Johnson, which I don't think that many children did, if any, they can get it two months later. So it would be six months after their completed two doses of the mRNA vaccines.

NOBLES: So check your vaccine cards, if this ends up being the guidance from the CDC.

RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.

NOBLES: All right, let's talk now about this new advisory from the CDC as it relates to cruise travel.

This is what the CDC said. They said -- quote -- "Avoid cruise travel, regardless of vaccination status."

Now, this isn't them locking down cruise travel. That's still going to be available to Americans, but they're strongly discouraging people from doing so. If you're somebody thinking about taking a cruise in the near future, how could -- should this impact your consideration of that?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, I personally think that going on a cruise ship right now with 4,000 other people on a day-to-day basis is equivalent to being in Times Square every day.

Even though people are vaccinated, you also have to realize that probably the age of the people that go on cruise ships skews a little bit older, which is people that are at higher risk.

[13:05:00]

I think it's an excellent recommendation. I think people need to take this seriously and just start using common sense. I think one of the things that we have done to actually hurt Americans is to always try to make things a little bit easier and soften the guidelines. And then, when something bad happens, then we try to, like, become very severe about it. And, by that time, it's too late.

This infection, this virus is not going away anytime soon. So if you believe that this is just going to be one phase, and that you can soften the requirements, then you're just fooling yourself. So I think that warning people about going on cruise ships is just another really good step to telling them, hey, you need to be alert all the time. And that makes no sense to go on such a large cruise ship, where you're exposed to so many people on a daily basis.

NOBLES: Yes, not to mention the fact that some of these cruise ships have been forced to go back to a port, drop passengers off...

RODRIGUEZ: Sure.

NOBLES: ... abandon their trips to begin with. There's just a lot of logistical and kind of annoying things that could happen as a result of the virus that make that type of travel just that much more difficult. So let's talk about Omicron as a variant and how it's been impacting

the general public that's come in contact with it. It does appear to cause a milder disease. And hospitalizations, and they're still very high in some places, are still a little more than half of what we saw during the peak in January.

There's no doubt we are in the middle of another surge, but does this surge feel different than it did a year ago?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes and no.

First of all, it feels more ominous, because there are more people getting infected. And even though we keep saying, hey, it's milder, listen, I have more patients now that are infected than in the beginning. I have more people that are concerned and are calling saying, what do I do, what do I do, which means that there will be more people that are hedging their bets and will go to the hospitals, which means that the hospital system is already being taxed and will be taxed.

Now, a lot of people don't understand what is available to them. And many people that are infected are rushing to try to get the latest protease inhibitor, et cetera, et cetera.

If you do have Omicron, the thing that you need to do, first of all, is just -- if you have mild symptoms, just stay home, isolate, hydrate, take things for pain, and not spread it to other people.

So, in a way, it feels a little bit better, and, in another way, it feels a lot more ominous.

NOBLES: So let's talk about one of the reasons that it might seem more ominous. And that's because nearly as many children are hospitalized with COVID right now as the peak in September.

That's where we're seeing a little bit of a difference in the type of hospitalizations. Is there a reason why? Is it just because of the sheer number of cases? Or is it that Omicron could be impacting kids differently than some of these other variants?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, remember, Ryan, that children are still not vaccinated to the same rate as adults.

And, right now, the virus is going to go to fertile ground. In other words, it is going -- it's really bouncing around. And it is going to be landing and taking root in those that it can. And, right now, children who are unvaccinated or not completely vaccinated because they have not gotten a booster at -- are at the highest risk, along with adults who haven't gotten vaccinated.

But children, their immune system sometimes is not fully formed. Children are in contact with other children at a higher rate than most adults. So I think they are the most susceptible. That's why we're seeing -- one of the many reasons that we're seeing a lot higher number of children go into hospitals.

NOBLES: So let's talk about the situation in hospitals right now.

Emergency rooms are clogged with people that are just going there for tests because they're having a hard time getting tests at sites in their local area. They can't find home tests at their drugstore. Is this a big problem in terms of access to testing right now in this country?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, first of all, it's ridiculous that anybody is going to the emergency room, the room for emergencies, to get a test. They are basically clogging down the system, and they're affecting the health care of other people that really need it.

So, yes, we should have access to tests. There is definitely a -- I can't even get tests, meaning that people that are in the health care system, right, we can't get tests. And it's important to know, because even though they're not foolproof, if you're positive, then you shouldn't be doing certain things.

So I hope that there is an increase in production. We should all have availability and have some of them stored at our house at all times so that we can check. But, again, let me warn people, just because your COVID test is negative doesn't mean that you have carte blanche to do what you want.

You may be in the process of getting the infection at its full-blown capacity, and the test will still be negative, so you still have to use precautions regardless of the test result.

NOBLES: All right, good advice, as always.

Dr. Jorge Rodriguez thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it. Have a happy new year.

[13:10:03]

RODRIGUEZ: You too, sir.

NOBLES: Some good news now on the state of the economy. New unemployment claims dropped to near historic lows last week at 198,000.

CNN's Matt Egan joins us now.

Matt, this is just one snapshot within a very tricky economic picture overall. But explain to us how this new data does fit into that picture.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brian, it is a tricky economic picture.

But these new numbers show that, despite COVID and a lot of other challenges, the economy is actually in pretty good shape. Just 198,000 for weekly jobless claims, that is holding near a 52-year low. Simply put, demand for workers is very high and firing is very low.

Now this can be kind of a noisy time in economy. Weekly claims can bounce around. That's why economists like to look at the four-week moving average. But even by that metric, this is the lowest level of jobless claims since October of 1969, when Richard Nixon was in the White House.

Now, listen, there are obviously some other challenges out there that sometimes overshadow the jobs market, of course, COVID and the high cost of living. But the jobs market is so strong right now because businesses have a near record number of job openings. They can't find enough workers. So, of course, they're not going to let go of the ones they do have.

And we also have to look at where the jobs market has come from. In early January of this year, jobless claims were at around 800,000 a week. They are down by three-quarters from that level. Ryan, I think the big question going forward is whether or not COVID and inflation can calm down enough to allow some of these other bright spots in the economy to shine through.

NOBLES: Yes, and I think it's remarkable, Matt, when you see some of these big corporations who are spending their ad dollars not on trying to sell their products, but trying to get people -- to convince them to work for them.

I think, more than anything, that shows just how robust this jobs market is.

All right, Matt, thanks for breaking down the numbers. We appreciate it.

And we're just a couple of hours away from a critical call between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, Putin requesting the call as tensions mount. What does he want? And what is the White House saying about it?

Plus, lawyers for Ghislaine Maxwell vowing an appeal after she's found guilty on sex trafficking charges. And do others still need to be held accountable?

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[13:16:44]

NOBLES: In a little over two hours, Presidents Biden and Putin will hold an urgent call on what the White House calls a moment of crisis on the Russia-Ukraine border.

According to the Kremlin, Putin requested the call do to the -- quote -- "extremely complicated" issues the two countries have to discuss.

International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Moscow. CNN White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond is in Delaware with the president.

Nic, let's start with you.

This will be the second conversation in recent weeks between these two leaders. And it takes place ahead of bilateral talks next month. Do we have any idea what the issues are that Putin wants to discuss?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: We do.

And I think, if we think of these -- this phone call in the context of Putin keeping up the pressure on President Biden, remembering Russia has created the narrative on the ground that Ukraine is under threat from the potential of invasion from Russian forces, that Russia says they're just doing a standard military training in Russian territory, and which they're perfectly legitimate and free to do.

So, Russia has created this scenario. And it's also then sort of created the pressure on the United States and NATO to get into conversations about its concerns. What are its concerns? Well, Putin wants watertight legal guarantees that NATO will stop its eastward expansion, that NATO will not allow Ukraine to join it, and that NATO will not put its troops and military hardware into Ukraine.

This is way too much for NATO and for the United States to swallow. So I think what we can expect, from looking at the sequence of events, looking at how Russia has ramped up the pressure on the United States and Europe to get involved in these conversations, this will be about firming up Russia's position, extremely complicated.

Putin is going to do his best to boil it down and make it very simple to President Biden. He wants absolute clarity about NATO and its intentions on Ukraine.

NOBLES: All right, so Jeremy, let's get to the Biden side of this.

What is the White House saying about Putin's demands?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, they're certainly not setting high expectations for any immediate concrete progress to come out of this conversation.

It's important, of course, that this call came at Vladimir Putin's request. The White House officials said that they saw no reason to reject that request, particularly at what one senior administration official called a moment of crisis.

This will be an opportunity, though, for President Biden to once again reiterate what the costs will be on Russia if indeed Vladimir Putin decides to invade Ukraine. And that is to say crippling economic and financial sanctions on Russia, the likes of which were not imposed by the U.S. after Russia invaded Crimea and annexed Crimea in 2014, and also a continuation of NATO support for Ukraine.

President Biden has said before that, if NATO wants -- if Russia wants NATO to be further away from its borders, this is certainly not the way to accomplish that.

At the same time, senior administration officials have made very clear that they will also offer -- make clear to Putin that there is an on- ramp here. While there is also an off-ramp, the on-ramp is to continue with this kind of meaningful diplomacy.

[13:20:04]

And, ultimately, this call is going to set up those talks set to take place beginning January 10 between the U.S. and Russia.

And it will give the U.S. and both sides, frankly, a better sense of what can be accomplished, what can be achieved in those bilateral conversations set to begin in less than two weeks -- Ryan.

NOBLES: All right, no doubt this is an inflection point at a tense time in Europe.

Nic Robertson and Jeremy Diamond, thank you both for joining me.

Well, now that she's facing the rest of her life in prison, could Ghislaine Maxwell cooperate with prosecutors and implicate other high- profile people in her crimes? We will discuss that next.

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[13:25:20]

NOBLES: Ghislaine Maxwell, the longtime associate of Jeffrey Epstein, now faces up to 65 years in prison after a jury found her guilty on five counts, including sex trafficking of a minor.

Today, one of four survivors who testified during Maxwell's trial is speaking out on the guilty verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN/MAXWELL ACCUSER: This is one important step towards justice. I wasn't sure that this day would ever come. And I just feel so grateful that the jury believed us and sent a strong message that perpetrators of sexual abuse and exploitation will be held accountable, no matter how much power and privilege that they have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: All right, let's talk about this.

Joining us is Kim Wehle. She's a law professor at the University of Baltimore and a former assistant U.S. attorney. Also joining us is Bob Bianchi. He is a criminal defense attorney.

So, Kim, let's start with you. What do you make of this guilty verdict?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: Well, Ryan, between 15,000 and 50,000 girls and women are trafficked every year. And in 2020, only 579 defendants were actually prosecuted.

So this is a drop in the bucket, I think it's very important to send a message that this kind of abuse of young girls -- and, let's be clear, what is trafficking? It is coercion to engage in a sex act. If it's over 18, that's for some kind of value or payment. This is the underbelly of society. It's a widespread problem. And so I

think it's very important that not just Ms. Maxwell and potentially co-conspirators that we don't know what -- Mr. Epstein, but potentially others -- are held to justice, and that this is a message that this is a very serious crime that culturally we need to address.

NOBLES: Right.

So, part of sending that message, Bob, will be how long she is sentenced to. The judge yet to set a sentencing day, but she could face up to 65 years in prison. Do you think it's likely that she receives the maximum sentence?

ROBERT BIANCHI, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all, people keep running these numbers, 65 and 70 years.

My experience, having run a prosecutorial agency and working with the feds on many cases, that she got hit with some offenses that have some significant time to them, but, on top of that, there are things in the sentencing code called cross-references, which can ratchet a sentence up.

That said, I don't know if she's going to get 65 years, but she's going to get a sentence, in my opinion, that's going to have her remain in jail for the rest of her natural life.

I can tell you, from having handled these cases as a prosecutor, having worked with the U.S. attorney's office on these cases, and having defended these cases, that they're taking it extremely seriously. The sentencing code is very draconian here.

And given the gravity of all the aggravating factors and relevant conduct, as we call it, under the federal sentencing code, this is going to be on the extremely high end, because this isn't just a one- off. This is multiple people and a conspiratorial aspect. And all those things ratchet the sentencing up.

And, lastly, she did not cooperate with law enforcement authorities. And so, therefore, she loses the coveted cooperation credits in reduction of sentences for cooperating and pleading guilty. So, she can expect serious pain, my prediction, for the rest of her natural life.

NOBLES: So, Maxwell's lawyers, Kim, say that they're working on an appeal. They even believe that she's going to be vindicated, ultimately.

I mean, how likely will her appeal process go?

WEHLE: Well, just because people can appeal, just like filing a lawsuit, doesn't mean that there are grounds for actually getting some kind of relief.

And even though there could be some errors in the trial, there's a concept known as the harmless error rule. That is, her lawyers would have to show that, but for the error, she would have been acquitted. And it looks like they're floating concepts. For example, there was one witness that was actually over age. She was 17 at the time.

She was given -- there was a limiting instruction given. So the question is, was the jury biased there? But she also got some perks. For example, the judge ruled that she could be referred to as Ms. Maxwell and not defendant, for example.

So, again, a very high hurdle to actually produce some kind of relief, that is, to get her out of jail. And I think it's very unlikely.

NOBLES: So, Bob, you alluded to this already, but maybe dig a little bit deeper into this.

This is a guilty verdict, as you mentioned, that will likely send a message in terms of a hefty sentence, but it doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, answer all the questions of who else may have been involved here.

And it seems to be a real open question whether or not we will see anybody else prosecuted underneath the scope of this massive conspiracy. What do prosecutors need to do to make sure that everybody is held accountable?

BIANCHI: Well, Ryan, the reality is, is that, in prosecutorial world, what we try to do is move up the chain, if you will, and go for the bigger fish.

Epstein and Maxwell were the bigger fish. As far as I see the