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Ghislaine Maxwell Faces Up To 65 Years After Guilty Verdict; Doctor Raises Concerns About Hospital "Compassion Fatigue"; Top 10 International Stories Of 2021. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 30, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

BOB BIANCHI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & HOST, "THE LAW AND CRIME NETWORK": Well, Ryan, the reality is that, in a prosecutorial world, what we try to do is move up the chain, if you will, and go for the bigger fish. Epstein and Maxwell were the bigger fish.

As far as I see the physics of this case, when Epstein killed himself, Maxwell lost a significant bargaining opportunity to go after who prosecutors wanted her to go after.

The rest individuals -- we really don't know the other "co- conspirators," quote, unquote, and what they did.

And I know the public really wants to know the individuals who were supposedly going to the island, very high-profile individuals. And typically, prosecutors aren't going down that chain.

That said, the reason that's important -- I agree with Kim. There's not going to be a reversible error, in my opinion, in this case.

The judge gave very good jury instructions that are going to be followed under the law by the jury unless otherwise stayed. We can't see any reason why they wouldn't.

The only place that Maxwell has to go right now is to cooperate. But what is the value of that cooperation to prosecutors? She had a trial where she was indicating, I didn't do anything wrong.

Now she wants to cooperate against people down the chain of command. She's a very damaged witness, that way.

So unless there's corroborating evidence that the person has, where her testimony could be extremely useful.

From a practical standpoint, despite the fact that people may not like it, it's very difficult for them to prove the case without Maxwell and without other witnesses beyond a reasonable doubt bought to 12 jurors.

So I would say, listen, as prosecutors, we have to make an evaluation, the cost-benefit analysis. We not just going to charge people that we don't think we can prove a case again.

Especially, the feds are notorious for that. They want it in a box and with a bow on it so that they can get a conviction on the case.

So I think we're going to see -- unless there's something dramatic we don't know about, I'm not sure we'll see much more out of this.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Quickly, Bob, is there an opportunity for her to get her sentence reduce if she now decides to cooperate? We talked about how she made the decision not to cooperate during that process.

Does she still have an opportunity here to maybe get fewer years in prison if she decides now she will talk to the authorities about what she knows.

BIANCHI: That's exactly the opportunity she has. And she can give significant information, if that information is relevant. She has to turn over everything and be completely truthful with them.

If they can use it and they can score a conviction, they will give her some benefit. It won't be a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Because the policies of the federal government are the policies that -- when I ran the federal prosecutor's office, after trial, if you want to cooperate, I won't give you the same kind of cooperation benefit that I would have at the beginning of the trial.

That's giving you a free shot at a trial to be found not guilty.

And the second thing that you have to take into consideration as a prosecutor, if you do use her, she will get on that witness stand and the defense attorneys are really going to run a bust through her in terms of the fact that, yes, first she said she didn't do it.

And then you got convicted and now you're here and you're trying to get a reduced sentence.

So the possibility is there, yes. But she's so damaged that prosecutors can't use her? That's possible, too.

NOBLES: OK, Kim Wehle and Bob Bianchi, great conversation. Appreciate your insight. And thanks so much for being on.

BIANCHI: My pleasure.

NOBLES: She spent two years on the front lines of the COVID fight and now she's staring down yet another surge. But an ICU doctor says there's actually a reason to be hopeful.

[13:33:05]

You're going to want to hear this. She tells us why when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:38:44]

NOBLES: While COVID hospitalizations are 55 percent lower than their peak in January, staff shortages and the unvaccinated are straining health care systems.

In a new "New York Times" op-ed, one critical care physician shares this concern.

Quote, "I wondered whether perhaps one of the greatest risks of whatever surge comes next will be compassion fatigue, the dwindling ability to feel empathy for the unvaccinated."

Dr. Daniela Lamas wrote that op-ed. She's a pulmonary critical care physician at Brigham & Women's Hospital in Boston.

The tension and anger at the unvaccinated in an ICU bed. But, Dr. Lamas, you wrote, "What is a hospital if not a place where we care without judgment for the many consequences of human fallibility."

Just tell me, you're dealing with this every day on the front lines. Are your colleagues, are you struggling to be empathetic?

DR. DANIELA LAMAS, PULMONARY CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN, BRIGHAM & WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: I think that my colleagues and I are very aware of this increasing tension between knowing that patients who are unvaccinated, that patients who come in for medical problems that have something to do with actions that they have taken or not taken before.

[13:39:59]

That there's a real tension between knowing that everyone deserves care and compassion and being there at the bedside.

And then outside the hospital feeling frustration, of course, that people who have chosen not to get vaccinated are continuing to drive these the -- these surges and are facing disease that would have been avoidable.

That being said, I think all of us, once we are standing there at that bedside and seeing somebody who is in need, we are able to muster the care and compassion that every individual deserves.

Regardless of what got them there into the ICU.

NOBLES: So, obviously, you're a professional and you're trained to deal with situations like these.

What's your advice to those of us who don't have that training?

That didn't sign up for this kind of work and maybe are having a hard time processing that there are a lot of our fellow Americans that aren't taking what seem to be easy steps to try and prevent some of this from happening?

LAMAS: Yes. I think this is something that the sort of is hard for everyone.

I think that there are different mandates for people who are sort of living their lives as lay people in terms of levels of understanding and compassion and those of us who actually have to take care of people at the bedside.

I think it's appropriate to be frustrated outside the hospital.

I think when someone is sick and when they're in an ICU bed, then we owe it to them to turn that frustration off.

In terms of advice for what people can do, to control what they can control and what you can control is making sure that you do your own part.

Every act, no matter how small, has massive repercussions. We all know that we're interconnected now.

So wear a mask. Test if you can. And obviously, that's a shortage that we have, a bottleneck that should be improving in the coming weeks.

And control sort of what you can control in your own environment and caring for those around you.

NOBLES: I've got to tell you, your editorial came for me at a good time. I think we're all dealing with a rollercoaster ride when it comes to this pandemic.

And I was starting to get very frustrated saying we'll never get out from underneath this.

This is titled, "An ICU Doctor's Message of Hope Amid Omicron." When we see these numbers starting to skyrocket, we're being forced to cancel plans.

Where were you able to find optimism at this current stage of the pandemic?

LAMAS: Like everyone, my initial reaction was not optimistic. It was somewhere between exhaustion, frustration and anxiety.

But if you think about it, you know, we are in such a different place. Yes, we have friends who are fully vaccinated and who are now getting those positive tests.

At the same time, we are so much less afraid to our lives. I mean, this is a story about vaccines working, about vaccines taking something that was potentially fatal and turning it into something that is manageable.

And we're in a hard spot now, yes, having to cancel plans that we didn't have to cancel, of course, but where we are is time limited.

This will run its course. And we're really seeing a significant disassociation between numbers of people getting sick, getting positive tests and hospitalizations. Those numbers aren't going up together.

This is milder perhaps intrinsically, but also, because of our vaccinations.

And so I think is a story of the success of science against this virus.

Even though it also means that we're going to have to sort of trudge through something that is still uncomfortable and really inconvenient for the coming six or eight or so weeks at least.

NOBLES: Well, if you're watching at home and you're frustrated by this pandemic, which we all are, I highly recommend Dr. Lamas's op-ed in the "New York Times."

Made me feel better, Dr. Lamas, and, hopefully, it will to others as well.

And we appreciate you and other fellow health care workers still on the front lines of this pandemic that we're all dealing with.

Thank you so much for being here.

LAMAS: Thank you.

NOBLES: Still to come, we count down the biggest international stories of 2021. Can you guess which one tops the list?

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[13:47:50]

NOBLES: There's, of course, just one day left in 2021. CNN's Clarissa Ward counts down the top-10 international stories from the past year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As 2021 comes to a close, so does another tumultuous year.

(voice-over): At number 10, the bombshell interview that put the British royal family in an unwelcome spotlight.

MEGHAN, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: Concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.

OPRAH WINFREY, ACTOR & ACTIVIST: What?

WARD: Prince Harry and his wife, Duchess of Sussex, opened up to Oprah in a two-hour TV special, speaking freely for the first time since walking away from a life as working royals.

MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, opening up to Oprah Winfrey about being singled out. She believes forced out of the royal family.

WARD: A month after the explosive broadcast, Queen Elizabeth's husband, Prince Philip, died at the age of 99.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, a shocked and saddened nation remembers the legacy of an irreplaceable figurehead.

WARD: Number nine --

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hours after Haiti's president was assassinated, gunfire still crackled through Port-au-Prince.

(SHOUTING)

WARD: The assassination of Jovenel Moise took place against a background of extreme violence in the capital, Port-au-Prince.

RIVERS: There are at least 17 people detained at this point.

WARD: Number eight, the conflict in the Middle East came ahead once again this spring and turned into one of the worst rounds of violence between the two sides in years.

HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a pattern that should not be familiar --

(EXPLOSION)

GOLD: -- yet already is. Hamas and Islamic Jihad rockets streaking across the sky from Gaza.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Airstrikes and rocket barrages, artillery and mortar fire, hundreds of people dead and more than 2,000 wounded.

WARD (on camera): The conflict lasted 11 days before Israel and the Palestinian group, Hamas, agreed to a cease-fire.

Israeli airstrikes killed more than 250 Palestinians, including dozens of children. The Palestinian militant fire from Gaza killed 13 Israelis, including children.

[13:50:09]

Number seven, Myanmar's military junta seized power in a coup, ousting de facto leader, Aung San Suu Kyi.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Clarissa Ward and her team were the first Western TV journalists allowed into the country since the coup.

WARD (voice-over): After days of pushing, we are allowed to visit a public space, an open market.

As word of our presence spreads, we hear an unmistakable sound.

(BANGING)

WARD: Banging pots and pans has become the signature sound of resistance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want democracy. We don't want military coup.

WARD: Since the February coup, the military has killed more than 1,300 people and arrested more than 10,000, according to an advocacy group.

(on camera): Number six, a powerful CNN investigation sheds light on a raging civil war.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Ethiopian government has waged war against Tigray's ousted regional leaders for the last five months with the help of neighboring Eritrea.

WARD: CNN was one of the only Western media outlets to travel to the country --

ELBAGIR: Three bodies were found down at the river front.

WARD: -- to investigate reports of mass killings.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): One by one, they enter the church, carrying in sacks all that's left of loved ones, executed by Ethiopian soldiers.

This is fresh evidence of a January massacre.

WARD (voice-over): In late April, a CNN team traveling through Tigray witnessed Eritrean soldiers, some of them disguising themselves in old Ethiopian military uniforms, cutting off critical aid routes to starving communities.

ELBAGIR: CNN! CNN! We're CNN! Journalists!

WARD: Eritrea's government has denied any involvement in atrocities and Ethiopia's government has pledged investigates into any wrongdoing.

But the bloody conflict rages on, spilling into other parts of the country, raising fears of an all-out war.

(on camera): Number five, turmoil at European borders.

(voice-over): Shocking images of thousands of migrants, stranded on the Belarus/Poland border in freezing conditions, desperate to make it into the European Union.

The situation at times surging out of control.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because Poland has sealed the border and now has 15,000 troops here to make sure that no one can pass -- Jake?

WARD: The European leaders have accused Belarus of manufacturing the crisis as retribution for sanctions over human rights abuses, a claim Belarus denies.

The year ends with tensions between Ukraine and Russia at their highest in years, with a massive buildup of Russian forces along the Ukraine's border, fueling fears over Moscow's intentions.

(on camera): Number four, Chinese Leader Xi Jinping's steel grips on power tightened. JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: David, how has President Xi been able to cement

his hold on power for so long?

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really sets him up as the undisputed supreme ruler for years to come.

WARD: And with this, an ever more assertive China.

And 2021 saw sophisticated propaganda campaigns to deflect criticism over allegations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang, the arrest of pro-democracy activists and former lawmakers in Hong Kong, as well as aggressive military maneuvers aimed at Taiwan.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This island is a potential flashpoint for what their president calls a fight between authoritarian China and democratic Taiwan, allied with the United States.

WARD: Number three --

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Protest rallies across Russia today in support of detained Kremlin opposition activist, Alexei Navalny.

WARD (voice-over): Russia's best-known opposition politician, Alexei Navalny, sent to a penal colony. He dared to return home five months after a near-fatal nerve agent attack.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Shortly before his detention, Navalny saying he's not scared.

ALEXEI NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

WARD: Number two, the new year brought with it great hopes for an end to the COVID-19 pandemic by ushering in widespread vaccinations.

But the virus continued to mutate, killing millions of people around the world.

The uneven vaccine rollout has not kept up with the speed of the spreading virus, especially in poorer countries.

(CRYING)

WARD: In Delhi now, you are never far from heartbreak. Almost everyone in the city has been visited by grief.

Despite high vaccination rates, Europe became the epicenter of the pandemic once again this winter. The fourth wave of COVID-19 is now sweeping across the continent, with lockdowns reinstated in some countries.

Across Europe, protests against mandates and health passes have drawn tens of thousands of people.

[13:55:06] In November, South African scientists discovered the new Omicron variant. It has since spread around the globe.

Number one, the last U.S. military planes left Afghanistan, marking the end of its longest war.

They took the city of six million people in a matter of hours, barely firing a shot.

(on camera): This is a sight I honestly thought I would never see, scores of Taliban fighters and, just behind us, the U.S. embassy compound.

(SHOUTING)

WARD (voice-over): Thousands scrambling to leave before the U.S. military exit.

(SHOUTING)

WARD (on camera): They're saying they all worked at American camps as translators for the Americans and they can't get into that airport.

(voice-over): A terrorist attack at the Kabul airport killed 13 U.S. servicemembers and more than 170 Afghans during the evacuation.

(on camera): And there is no question, everybody here is doing their best but it's not clear if it's fast enough.

The collapse of Afghanistan's U.S.-backed government was perhaps the most damaging setback.

(SHOUTING)

WARD (voice-over): It was a blow to U.S. credibility and to democratic advances, especially on women's rights and media freedoms, which were stifled overnight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And that's a wrap for me today.

Alisyn Camerota picks up our coverage after this short break.

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