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Secretary of State Blinken in Ukraine Amid Russia Invasion Fears; Interview with Representative Michael McCaul (R-TX) about U.S.- Russia Tensions Over Ukraine; President Biden to Hold News Conference Marking First Year in Office. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 19, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: If you've been exposed, if you don't have the tests available, you'll have to find testing resources elsewhere.

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GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And what's not clear this morning is whether the Postal Service is adding more mail carriers to actually deliver these tests given some of those staffing issues, although two of the postal unions tell us their understanding is that there won't be mail carriers added. That work is going to be put on the staff they already have.

We haven't gotten a lot of information from the Postal Service in terms of the logistics to actually execute this program, although they have said several times that they're confident they can get it done -- Jim and Bianna.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Gabe Cohen, thanks so much.

Very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. We are following two major developing stories this hour.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Ukraine this morning, and warning that Russia has already amassed nearly 100,000 forces on its border with Ukraine and it could double on relatively short order. Ahead of Blinken's crucial meeting with his Russian counterpart on Friday in Geneva, he made clear to Russia that there are only two paths, diplomacy or consequences.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: The world is watching what's happening here. When Russia uses its strength to act with impunity against another sovereign nation, it makes other countries think that they, too, can violate the rules of international peace and security and put their narrow interests ahead of the shared interests of the international community.

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SCIUTTO: Plus a potential blow to the Trump family business. New York's attorney general says she has uncovered, quote, "significant evidence" of what she described as misleading and fraudulent practices by the Trump Organization. She wants to speak now to the former president as well his children Ivanka Trump and Don Jr. We're going to have more on that investigation in a just moment.

GOLODRYGA: But first let's get to CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood at the State Department.

Kylie, Secretary Blinken just spoke after meeting with Ukraine's foreign minister. This was apparently a last-minute planned trip for him. What came out of this meeting?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, pretty significant news from the secretary of State this morning, saying that Russia has about 100,000 troops on Ukraine's border. That we know. But he went further and he said that Russia could double that number on relatively short order. That is hugely significant. It's not just about the number of troops that Russia has, but it's about the plans and capacity that they have for bolstering those troop levels to a higher number so that they could then of course potentially invade Ukraine.

The other thing that the secretary was asked about in this press conference with his Ukrainian counterpart was what the U.S. would consider doing in terms of more military assistance to Ukraine. He wasn't specific about what that assistance would look like if, of course, Russia does invade Ukraine, but our reporting is that there have been conversations about providing more military assistance.

And what exactly that would look like is still being debated. But listen to what the secretary said about that possibility today.

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BLINKEN: Should Russia carry through with any aggressive intent and renew its aggression and invade Ukraine, we'll provide additional material beyond that that is already in the pipeline, and that will further aid in defending Ukraine.

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ATWOOD: Another aspect that was central to Blinken's conversations with the Ukrainians today was how to prepare for the meeting that Blinken is going to be having on Friday with the Russian foreign minister. He said that he consulted, he coordinated with his Ukrainian counterpart about how to broach that meeting. One thing he also said is he's not going to be presenting the Russian foreign minister with written responses to the proposals Russia put on the table last week. The reason that that's significant is because Russia has been

persistently saying that they need written responses. Blinken was saying, look, we're not going to be doing that. We still don't know exactly what Russia's central demands are here. So he wants to have a conversation to really try and see if they can identify what is at the heart of Russia's demands and if there is a diplomatic path forward.

SCIUTTO: Already been a lot of conversations. Kylie Atwood, thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss, Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. He is the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Jim. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So you hear Secretary Blinken's warning there that Russia could double its already significant forces on the border in short order. It's CNN's reporting that Russia has added further forces just in recent days. In your view, has the current mix of threatened sanctions and additional military assistance, has that deterrence failed?

MCCAUL: Yes. I don't think we're providing the deterrence necessary to stop Putin from invading Ukraine, the bread basket of Russia.

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He wants to reclaim the old Soviet empire, and I don't see a lot of deterrence, you know, on the table. In fact, Jim, what I'm seeing is a prelude to war when you're seeing live exercises on the Ukrainian border, a false flag operation that they're going to use as a pretense for warfare to invade Ukraine. The cyberattacks, which be afraid and expect the worst. Russia is pulling out its embassy members out of Kiev.

And finally these joint exercises with Belarus right on the border of Ukraine is quite disturbing in addition to the 100,000 Russian troops, the tanks and the triad operation, air, land and sea.

SCIUTTO: Yes. So let me ask you this. The current mix of weapons, lethal and military systems that U.S. and NATO have been sending there, they include things like javelin and antitank missiles, also MANPAD shoulder fired missiles to come from NATO allies. The intention, as you know better than me, is to raise the military and personnel costs for Russia if it were to choose to invade to make it frankly bloodier.

What specifically have you not seen in terms of assistance that you want to see?

MCCAUL: You know, I sign off on all foreign military weapons sales including Ukraine. I would like to see -- you know, I introduced a bill that provide more lethal assistance, again with respect to the triad. Remember, he wants control of the Black Sea. He got Crimea. He wants Odessa. He cut off our LNG exports from the United States and he wants to control that.

I would like to see that. But honestly in my discussions both classified and none, I don't think we can provide enough lethal weapons to stop an invasion. I think what I recommended, and I talk to a lot of experts, you know, on this, is a buildup and a presence in our NATO allied nations on the eastern flank. That being Poland, that being, you know, Romania, that being the Baltic states. That would send a signal to Putin that there would be a consequence to this action.

Barring that, I think he views, particularly after Afghanistan when he sees a weakness and we're projecting weakness, you're seeing with President Xi, the Ayatollah, Kim Jong-un, and Putin sees this as the time, I think.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you, should the U.S. keep a potential NATO military response on the table? In other words, put differently, was it a mistake to take a military response by the U.S., by NATO, by the West, off the table?

MCCAUL: I think it's a huge mistake. That's the only deterrence we can have. I mean, we can arm Ukraine with lethal weapons, but it takes time to, you know, train and prepare for that. We're talking a very aggressive short timetable. In the classified space -- I can't go into detail -- this plan is very specific and very aggressive in its timetable, and so we need to send a very bold message of deterrence.

And that, in my judgment, would be, you know what, we did move 10,000 troops out of Germany and into Poland. Let's have, you know, let's have the troop exercises in the Baltic states and show to Putin that, you know, the rhetoric is one thing, but you have to have the action to back it up.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this about economic sanctions, because to date the administration's response has been here is what we're going to do if you invade as opposed to preemptively. You've talked a lot about Nord Stream. Should the U.S. sanction Nord Stream today to deter an invasion rather than wait potentially for what Russia does on the ground?

MCCAUL: Well, I disagreed with the president waiving in a national interest of the United States to allow Putin to build his pipeline into Europe, cutting off U.S. exports into Odessa and the Black Sea only emboldened Putin and made Europe dependent on Russian dirty energy, which by the way, our energy is more clean from a climate change, you know, standpoint. So these are all projections of weakness that I disagreed with at the time. And I think it's emboldened Putin. And he's got to make the calculation.

SCIUTTO: OK.

MCCAUL: Is this the right time to do it?

SCIUTTO: You're very aware that a big part of Putin's strategy is straight-up propaganda. So it's been notable to see some in this country repeat, frankly, some of Russia's arguments about Ukraine. And I want to play something that Tucker Carlson said last night regarding Putin's and Russia's view of Ukraine. Have a listen.

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TUCKER CARLSON, FOX CHANNEL HOST: Imagine if Mexico fell under the direct military control of China. We would see that as a threat, of course. There would be no reason for that. Well, that's how Russia views NATO control of Ukraine, and why wouldn't they?

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SCIUTTO: Does this help Russia to have prominent Americans repeat, in effect, their rationale for military action in Ukraine?

MCCAUL: Yes. I talked to Wendy Sherman last night, deputy secretary. We want to have a unified front as Americans against Putin and the Russians. And this would be the largest invasion in Europe since World War II if it happens. And so I think being united, but, you know, we have a difference of opinion, and I told her to use me, you know, as maybe a foil.

I don't like the rhetoric that somehow Putin is a good guy. I don't like the rhetoric that -- you know, this Soviet -- it goes back to -- he wants to reclaim the glory of the old Soviet empire. And you're talking about democracies versus authoritarianism. This is absolutely critical to NATO.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCAUL: And it's a direct threat to NATO. And if we don't take a stand to stop this, I'm afraid, as you asked me in the beginning, it's more likely that they will invade. And as Jen Psaki said, she said, you know, Russia could at any point launch an attack. And I agree with her. And that's why this is so important. It's a very high-stakes game. I don't like playing into Putin's hands.

SCIUTTO: I hear you. One question on January 6th because after January 6th you condemned President Trump. You didn't vote to impeach. At the time you said, I truly fear there may be more facts that will come to light in the future that will put me on the wrong side of this debate. It's been a year. You're aware of the committee's work. It's revealed a heck of a lot of stuff.

I wonder, do you feel that you've seen evidence now that might have changed your vote then?

MCCAUL: You know, it was a very dark day. I don't like the way it's been spun, you know, revisionist history. It was very dark, a dark day in this Capitol. I will tell you my biggest concern at that time was, why wasn't the National Guard deployed? And, you know, you can point fingers at a lot of people including Pelosi as to why they didn't have the guard as an unseen asset. You know, I chaired Homeland Security. I get that stuff, where the

guard could have been close by to respond. They weren't. And lives were lost. And I think it could have been stopped a lot earlier.

SCIUTTO: OK. Congressman Michael McCaul, thanks so much for joining the program this morning.

MCCAUL: Yes. Thanks, Jim. Thanks for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Jim, fascinating interview and really, really ominous to hear him say that the U.S. needs to present a united front here because we see that same problem happening in Europe, where a lot of the Eastern European members of NATO are wanting to see more of that aggressive response. And there seems to be some disagreement with other major countries there.

SCIUTTO: And an increased pessimism frankly from both Democratic and Republican lawmakers close to this issue.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Yes. Well, still ahead, a lot has happened since President Biden's last news conference in November. Next, how he will have to tackle multiple crises from the White House podium today.

SCIUTTO: Plus the Trump organization is responding after the New York attorney general said its investigation found significant omissions and misleading statements in the organization's financial documents. And the fight to stop the big lie does not just focus on politicians.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are these 35,000 people who mailed in ballots? You need to find out, super mom.

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SCIUTTO: Why a math teacher is turning heads in the world of election fraud influencers, later this hour.

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SCIUTTO: Happening right now, Senate Democrats are on Capitol Hill debating their proposed bill to change election laws, trying to get closer at least to a floor vote. We should note, as we've said many times, it stands virtually no chance of passing. We do expect a vote later today to break the GOP filibuster. That also expected to fail.

We are learning that Senator Joe Manchin says he is planning to speak on the floor this afternoon about exactly why he opposes those rules changes.

GOLODRYGA: And meantime, this afternoon President Biden will hold a press conference at the White House on the eve of his one-year anniversary in office. He is entering his second year with one of the lowest approval ratings for a modern-day president. So what should we expect to hear this afternoon?

Joining me now to discuss is former Pennsylvania governor and former DNC chair Ed Rendell, and Nina Turner, former Ohio state senator and also the co-chair of Bernie Sanders' 2020 presidential campaign.

Welcome both of you. Governor Rendell, let me begin with you. The president is expected to tout his successes this year. The unemployment rate at 3.9 percent. More Americans have been vaccinated. They are sending out hundreds of millions of tests and masks. That having been said, do you think there is enough here for this administration to take a victory lap about?

ED RENDELL, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Sure. Understand we went from two million Americans being vaccinated to over 200 million Americans being fully vaccinated. Great achievement, and people said it couldn't be done. Secondly, the economy is coming right back, first with the American Rescue Plan which saved millions of small businesses and families from going bankrupt and going out of business entirely.

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That was a hugely successful rescue operation. So we've seen tremendous progress. The economy now, you know, our growth has exceeded China's for the first time in 20 years. So this economy is humming and we haven't even factored in the infrastructure bill which was going to really skyrocket the economy.

If this was Donald Trump's first year in office, he would be saying that it was the greatest successful year in the history of our country. It's been not quite as good as that, but it's been an awfully good year that Joe Biden doesn't get adequate credit for.

GOLODRYGA: So, Nina, do you agree with what the governor said? I mean, do you think American households are sitting around at the dining room table saying that our growth has exceeded that of China and this has been a great year? We're still talking about inflation at multi-decade highs and just a lot of, quite frankly, COVID fatigue.

The governor mentioned the infrastructure bill. There have been quite a few failures, from voting rights legislation obviously that's taking place right now. We know that that's not going to get passed. There aren't enough votes for that, and the Build Back Better plan.

NINA TURNER, FORMER CO-CHAIR, BERNIE SANDERS 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Yes, I mean, it's really about what people can feel. And so while the facts, as the governor laid them out, are true, it zs what is the impression in everyday households around this country. And as you stated, gas prices are up, food prices are up, people are really not feeling that. And when it comes to the infrastructure bill, absolutely we need to repair our roads, our bridges, our airports, bring broadband all across this country as we know, the worldwide web, the internet. It is a necessity now.

There is a however to that. We need to measure success based on what big mamma and big daddy has to say about how they're feeling in their communities. I happen to live in the largest poor city in the country right now. The people in my city, the everyday people are not saying that those things are impacting them. And again, on the bipartisan infrastructure bill, the players that usually benefit from those kinds of things are going to be the ones that continue to benefit the corporations.

By the time that people feel the impact, we may be closer to the end of this year. And so the president can go out there and tout everything that the governor just said. I also believe that the president needs to take some FDR moves and really relate to some of the suffering and the pain. People who are inside the bubble can say, oh, yes, the unemployment rate is down. Well, a lot of people are leaving their jobs.

A lot of unions as we know especially in the latter part of 2021 were picketing and went on strike because they need better wages and better work conditions and, you know, just a better situation. Decency, dignity, pride and work. So we have a longer way to go in this country so that everyday people feel it, and not just people with fancy titles.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Ed, let me pick up on that because as we heard from Nina, she says that the president needs an FDR move. One could argue that that's what he had been trying to pursue and had been pressured to do just that in his first year. And, you know, let's be blunt. That's not necessarily how things played out. There is an argument to now go smaller, to have something to show voters as we're just months away from the midterm elections.

So what do you think? Do you think Nina is right, that he should still pursue that FDR move, or should he try to get anything he can at this point?

RENDELL: Well, look, I think Nina is right about what she said about the difference between the facts that I laid out and what ordinary people feel.

But, Nina, you will admit in the American Rescue Plan, there were things that saved ordinary people, the child care tax credit, for example, that added $7,000 to families' budget and expandable income, who had two children and make less than $70,000. That was enormously impactful. So we've got to put those things in and change the economic equation in the long run, but there's work to be done.

But I think it can be done, and I think it will be done. And I think the way we're going to do it is if Build Back Better can't be passed as one piece of the legislature, let's take each individual part of it, particularly the most popular ones like reducing prescription drug prices and force the Republicans to vote on the record, yea or nay, making that child care tax credit permanent. Let's force the Republicans to vote on that one piece of legislation, yea or nay.

You'll be amazed, I think Nina would agree, how fast we will pass some of that stuff and get it moving. Not all of it, but a good hunk of it.

GOLODRYGA: Nina, let me end with you because as you just heard that we're expected to hear from Senator Manchin again today to explain why he doesn't believe that the filibuster should be done away with. And this follows Kyrsten Sinema doing the same thing, giving a speech right before, really preempting, the president's visit and some would say embarrassing him before he went to go meet behind closed doors with senators pushing it and his argument to make a carveout, right, in terms of voting rights reform.

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I'm just wondering, I was thinking back to what President Obama had accused the Democrats of doing, and that's turning into a circular firing squad. The attention really has been for much of the year on the infighting within the Democratic Party and not as much on what Republicans are doing to obstruct any legislation the Democrats are trying to push forward. Should that change? I mean, are Democrats harming themselves?

TURNER: Well, the Republicans have lost their ever-loving minds to quote my grandmother. And so the Democrats have to be the ones to stand up for the people. Filibuster must be reformed, as far as I'm concerned, or do away with the rule. I mean, they're acting like this is something sacred. It is a Senate rule and rules can change. And the fact that Senators Manchin and Sinema, and as you laid out, certainly Senator Sinema embarrassed the president at the very next day.

The people really who have been holding the line for the president's vision, for what he ran on, have been the progressives, and guess what, the Squad was absolutely right. They said do not decouple the infrastructure bill from the Build Back Better bill because what we need is physical infrastructure and human infrastructure. So not only is the filibuster standing in the way of expanding and protecting voting rights, it is standing in the way, as a matter of fact, for the president's -- most of the president's agenda.

So what can Senator Manchin say other than the fact that he is an extremist, him and Senator Sinema are extremists, and anybody that's hiding behind them are extremists because when you want to put your political concerns over democracy, when you serve in some of the highest offices of the land, then something is wrong with you. And that is why I do believe firmly that the president, not only the vision of FDR, but he's got to take the message and the spirit that FDR had. Call out these folks, say I welcome your hatred. Gas up the jet. That's what the president should do. Take it to the streets.

GOLODRYGA: Perhaps he is listening --

(CROSSTALK)

GOLODRYGA: Perhaps he is listening to you and taking notes ahead of his presser.

Ed Rendell, Nina Turner, thank you as always, we appreciate it.

And President Biden will hold that news conference today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. Of course watch it here live on CNN.

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