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White House Tries to Clean Up Biden's Ukraine Comments; British PM Faces Growing Calls for His Resignation; First Aid Flights Reach Hard-Hit Pacific Nation. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired January 20, 2022 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LYNDA KINDADE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Lynda Kinkade.
Ahead on CNN Newsroom, Ukraine calls it a green light of Vladimir Putin after U.S. President Biden suggests a minor incursion from Russia wouldn't be as serious. And the pressure goes on Boris Johnson as members of his own party says it's time for the British Prime Minister to go. And days after a devastating eruption and tsunami aid is finally arriving in the Pacific nation of Tonga.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN Newsroom with Lynda Kinkade.
KINKADE: The Biden administration is scrambling to clear up some surprising remarks from U.S. president about the simmering tensions between Russia and Ukraine. More than 100,000 Russian troops are amassed along the border with Ukraine. The government in Kyiv is preparing for a possible invasion. Well, now Ukrainian officials say they're shocked and stunned by President Joe Biden's suggestion that a minor incursion might elicit a lesser response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: Russia will be held accountable if it invades and it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion, and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do et cetera. But if they actually do what they're capable of doing with the force of mass on the border, it is going to be a disaster for Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KINKADE: Well, the White House was quick to clarify, saying any movement of Russian forces into Ukraine would be considered an invasion and met with a swift, severe and united response. Anything short of a military aggression, including a cyberattack would bring a reciprocal response.
Still, Mr. Biden says he's preparing for the worst from Russian President Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: David, I'm not so sure he has -- is certain what he's going to do. My guess is he will move in. He has to do something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in Moscow with the latest on Russia's response. Bob we'll begin with the reaction from Ukraine and Matthew Chance in Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What to say Ukrainian officials were displeased, President Biden's remarks would be an understatement. One official told me he was shocked to hear the U.S. leader distinguished between an incursion and an invasion. And to suggest that a minor incursion by Russia into Ukrainian territory would elicit a lesser response than a full-scale invasion. That sliding scale may have been discussed privately but in Ukraine, officials say that's the first time they've heard that nuance made, usually U.S. officials, U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, who was actually here in Kyiv, as President Biden spoke, speak of crushing sanctions or serious consequences if there's any kind of military action against Ukraine.
Main concern, according to the Ukrainian official that I spoke with is that the new remarks may be seen by Russia as, "a green light for Putin to enter Ukraine at his pleasure." In other words, to stage a limited land grab as they have done in the past. We don't need light U.S. sanctions in response. But the White House has been quick to issue clarification of President Biden's remarks saying that a minor incursion would include something like a cyberattack, but that any further seizure of Ukrainian land would be seen as an invasion and be met with a swift, severe and united response. Mathew Chance, CNN Kyiv.
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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The President Biden threatening massive sanctions against Russia if there was a full-blown invasion of Ukraine. Obviously, all eyes right now are on that area around Ukraine with those Russian troops amassing. Now, the Russians for their part claim that they are not threatening anyone in that area. However, I was able to ask the Deputy Foreign Minister of Russia that if Russia is not threatening anyone, why are so many Russian forces amassing in that area? And what does that mean for the prospect of possible war in Europe? Here's what he had to say. (On camera): How likely or unlikely is it that there could be a large- scale military confrontation and possible war in Europe?
SERGEY RYABKOV, RUSSIAN DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: I do believe that there is no risk of a larger scale war to start to unfold in Europe or elsewhere. We do not want and will not take any action of aggressive character. We will not "attack, strike, invades" whatever Ukraine.
[01:05:08]
It has been said dozens of times in recent weeks, and that just reconfirm this. We see the threat of Ukraine becoming ever more integrated in NATO without even acquiring a formal status of NATO member state. This is something that goes right to the center of Russia's national security interests.
PLEITGEN: Now, the Russians say that they want to stop that dynamic, as they put it, with all means, however, the Deputy Foreign Minister said all diplomatic means at their disposal. Nevertheless, of course situation remains very tense there in that border area with Ukraine. We do know that the Russians have also been moving troops into Belarus as well. And, of course, the southern border of Belarus is also the northern border of Ukraine. And Ukrainians certainly are feeling increasingly encircled.
One of the things that the Russians also said in this came in the form of the Kremlin, they say that the meeting between Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister and Secretary of State Antony Blinken, that set to take place in Geneva on Friday is of the utmost importance. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
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KINKADE: Joining us from Washington is Susan Glasser, she's a Staff Writer for The New Yorker, as well as the CNN Global Affairs Analyst. Good to have you with us, Susan.
SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thanks so much for having me.
KINKADE: So, let's start with U.S. President Biden's press conference where he seemed to suggest that the U.S. and NATO response would be proportional to Russia's next move that a minor incursion would warrant a lesser response and that they hadn't really figured out what that would be. What's your assessment of those comments? And what does it signal to President Putin?
GLASSER: Well, clearly, the White House was concerned about those comments because they quickly after his press conference issued a clarifying statement from White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki that sought to clarify, although it didn't really essentially the message to Vladimir Putin here is one that exactly off message as far as Kyiv is concerned, which is to say that the American response will be proportional in some way to even a Russian actual military incursion into Ukraine. Now, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki says no, no, that's not the case. But I think that, you know, Putin is hearing what we would call a classic Washington gaffe, which is to say that President Biden told the uncomfortable truth in a setting which he was not expected to do. So, of course, there are differences inside NATO. And those will affect ultimately the kind of response and retaliation that Putin can expect if Russia launches a military attack on Ukraine.
KINKADE: Susan, after well, over a week of diplomatic talks, the posturing from various countries is quite significant. The U.S. saying an attack is imminent. The Russia could invade Ukraine on short notice. We heard from Russia's deputy foreign minister saying there's no risk of a large-scale war suggesting that the West is aggressive for sending an arms to Ukraine. And, of course, we've heard from Ukraine's President telling its citizens essentially remain calm, and that the risk of a war since the annexation of Crimea back in 2014, hasn't increased, he doesn't believe that things have changed. What do you make of those stark differences?
GLASSER: Well, first of all, let's be clear that it's Russia that created and manufactured the pretext for this current crisis. And whatever the spin is, after the fact, there was no act of aggression or, you know, changing dynamic on the part of Ukraine or the United States or NATO that led to this, it was Putin, who created the crisis, who sent 100,000 troops to the border is NATO -- sorry, to the border of Ukraine, his neighbor, and then essentially said, like, sure, go ahead and negotiate with me while I have this kind of gun or 100,000 guns, to your head. So, I think it's really important to make that point.
I am struck by how vociferously and consistently the Biden administration here in Washington has been warning and saying our assessment is that a military invasion could come at any time. These are not necessarily an alarmist group of people. And even President Biden himself at the press conference today reiterated this instead, he personally believes that it is likely that Putin is going to go across the border in some renewed way.
KINKADE: So, Susan, the U.S. Secretary of State has said to meet his Russian counterpart on Friday, what needs to happen to come to some sort of diplomatic solution? How should it Blinken approach this meeting?
GLASSER: Well, I think the big challenge, of course, for any diplomacy in this moment is that, you know, if there's too big of a mismatch between the demands that Russia is setting forth and any ability to actually solve them at the negotiating table essentially, it's very hard to see that right now.
[01:10:10]
They're not negotiating over anything that's specific enough, frankly, right now, these are abstract, almost existential demands that Russia has that really fundamentally boiled down to saying that Ukraine is not a legitimate independent state that Ukraine shouldn't have the right to dictate its own foreign policy orientation toward the west, that Ukraine must, in fact, remain within some kind of Russian sphere of influence. And those are not the kinds of things that Tony Blinken or any American Secretary of State is empowered to negotiate at the table with Sergey Lavrov. So, it's really hard to see them just sort of getting off the table saying, OK, everything solved now. We're good.
KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. Especially after all the talks that have happened so far, and how we'll see how this plays out. Susan Glasser, CNN Global Affairs Analyst, good to have you with us. Thank you.
GLASSER: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, more members of Boris Johnson's own party and are publicly calling on the British Prime Minister to step down. He has continued to give explanations and apologies about staff parties during lockdowns, only seeming to antagonize the public and members of parliament. We get the latest now from CNN's Salma Abdelaziz in London.
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BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker ...
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: He has apologized to the public, to Parliament, even to the Queen, but it made jeers Prime Minister Boris Johnson tried sorry, again.
JOHNSON: I recognize the enormous sacrifice that people have made. I apologize for misjudgments that may be made in Number 10 by me and anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is no excuse ...
ABDELAZIZ: Johnson now stands accused of misleading parliament, his government of violating COVID rules.
JOHNSON: He must contain her impatience, Mr. Speaker and wait for the inquiry next week.
ABDELAZIZ: But Johnson was on the defensive. He looked agitated, glanced at his watch, duct questions. Allegations that Downing Street held Garden Parties, Christmas parties, a bring your own booze party and a few more all during lockdowns have dogged the Prime Minister for weeks. Johnson accused not just of lying but of lying badly taking his countrymen for fools.
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: Every week, the Prime Minister office absurd and frankly unbelievable defenses to the Downing Street parties, and each week it unravels. Doesn't the country deserve so much better than this out of touch, out of control, out of ideas and soon to be out of office prime minister.
ABDELAZIZ: More distressingly for Johnson, some conservative lawmakers, members of his own party, fed up with the hypocrisy.
DAVID DAVIS, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: I expect my leaders to shoulder the responsibility for the actions they take. Yesterday, he did the opposite of that, in the name of God, go.
ABDELAZIZ: And even a mutiny in the ranks. One Tory MP defecting to the other side. Johnson now fighting on two fronts, if found to have misled Parliament intentionally, custom requires him to resign. And if 15% of the Conservative Party's MPs submit letters of discontent, it would trigger a no confidence vote. Outside the House of Commons one of a handful of rebels Tory MP Sir Roger Gale tells us he wants Johnson out.
ROGER GALE, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: He has been very economical with the truth. And my personal view, that's my personal view is that he has misled Parliament, and that is a serious offence.
ABDELAZIZ: Gale is one of several Westminster lawmakers that say they've received hundreds of correspondences from angry voters, the discontent fueling a growing rebellion. For now, Johnson limps on ignoring public outrage. Salma Abdelaziz, CNN London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, CNN European Affairs Commentator Dominic Thomas joins us now from Los Angeles. Good to have you with us.
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Oh, thank you for having me on the show, Lynda.
KINKADE: So Prime Minister Boris Johnson, as we saw there being criticized from every side, we've heard call after call for him to resign even from within his own party. Will he stay or will he go?
THOMAS: That's a great question. And there's so much at stake here. I mean, clearly, we're going to have to wait to see what the gray report comes up with. I mean, obviously, if the report explicitly states that he lied to Parliament, broke the ministerial code and so on, there's going to be very little wiggle room. But I think that as angry as Conservative Party MPs are at the moment, getting rid of Boris Johnson is risky. On the one hand, having him survive a vote of no confidence or keeping in power is a weakened Boris Johnson one who has a massive majority who can be used to push policies through while at the same time Conservative MPs have the safety net of knowing that he essentially serves at their pleasure. They could potentially vote him out at any time.
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If they do get rid of him, the problem is they've got to find a replacement. And they've got to find a replacement who could not only heal the damage that's been done to the Conservative Party, but also essentially serve unelected by the British people. Because this person would be appointed by the Conservative Party and the Conservative Party supporters, and then have to go to a general election in 2024 over two years down the road, knowing that it would be a referendum on their performance, and with the great question as to whether or not selecting somebody at this particular juncture is the best person to lead them into election in 2024. And that may give the Conservatives food for thought, cold feet, and it may somewhat paradoxically be Boris Johnson's greatest chance of surviving this latest crisis.
KINKADE: And he certainly does know how to survive a crisis, doesn't he? Time and time again in this case, we did see one MP defect Christian Wakeford, to the Labour Party saying that the country needs a government that upholds the highest standards of integrity. And he said in his resignation letter from the Conservative Party that the party and the prime minister have shown themselves to be incapable of offering that sort of leadership the country deserves, is it likely that others will follow suit?
THOMAS: I think it is likely. I mean, what he has done essentially is ignored the key fundamental principle of leadership, which is to lead by example, and, and people are upset and furious. And of course, the MPs are dealing with their own constituents and so on. And also, you know, that statements that were made humiliating him in Parliament today, comparing him to Chamberlain rather than Churchill, were absolutely humiliating for, for the Prime Minister.
I just think that the bigger picture here, the bigger question is that as much as they're furious and angry with him, the reality is, what is the alternative? Who would that candidate be, and it's not as if the Conservative Party stand as a united body, you can see the tensions between the back benches and the cabinet. There is no love lost between Boris Johnson, and many, many, many of the Conservative Party members here. And so, it's hard to see getting the votes to push a vote of no confidence, the letters, that's the easy part that getting 181 elected Conservative MPs to vote that they have no confidence in him. I think it's going to require something else at this stage. And I think that that's where the gray report could potentially be really crucial to see whether it provides them with the justification, they need to make that decision, which otherwise raises all of these other questions.
KINKADE: Yeah, you raised some really, really good questions. We saw in that last piece, some of the headlines today in newspapers throughout the country. I want to understand from you what the public feel right now, what are the polls showing how much support is there for Boris Johnson right now?
THOMAS: Well, that's the absolute key question here. And that's really where it pays out that in the court of public opinion, he would be gone. And that's what the Conservative Party has to reckon with here is that, yes, he serves at the pleasure of Conservative Party and lawmakers, it's up to them to decide whether they write these letters, whether they hold a vote of no confidence and so on. But this must play out in the greater public arena, you have newspapers that have previously supported Boris Johnson that have completely abandoned him. His polling and unfavourability ratings are at their lowest that they have ever been. And I think that is the big challenge. And the big question is, to what extent can this damage be mitigated and to what extent is actually the whole Tory Party brand being damaged by this individual and that may be at the end of the day, the justification that they need to remove him is to cut their losses at this stage and to try and go about rebuilding the Conservative Party up until the 2024 general election. They have enough time to do that. They've just got to find somebody, a leader that they can all get together and back and that's going to be a great challenge.
KINKADE: Yeah, and certainly sounds like it. Dominic Thomas, as always great to get your perspective. Thanks so much for joining us.
THOMAS: Thank you, Lynda.
KINKADE: We're hearing firsthand accounts about the devastating of volcanic eruption in Tonga. Next, survivors describe a scramble to get to safety after the volcano began to erupt.
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KINKADE: Welcome back, international aid is finally starting to arrive in Tonga. On Saturday, the Pacific Island nation was hit by what's believed to be the world's biggest volcanic eruption in three decades. It stands up to 15-meter tsunami waves crashing into beachside communities. The nation was also covered in volcanic ash which shut down its main airport and led to water shortages. But now the airport is up and running again and the first aid flights are coming in. Our Blake Essig has more details for us from Tokyo. Good to have you with us Blake. So New Zealand's aid flight has touched down. Give us a sense of what's on board, the Hercules?
BLAKE ESSIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Lynda, the first aircraft able to land in Tonga carrying humanitarian aid and supplies came from New Zealand. It landed about three hours ago. It included water containers, temporary shelters, generators, hygiene and family kits and communications equipment of the first of two aid flights from Australia has already landed as well, carrying further humanitarian aid and other supplies because Tonga has essentially been COVID free throughout the pandemic. New Zealand, government officials say that today's delivery of supplies was contactless, and that the aircraft was only on the ground for about 90 minutes to avoid creating a COVID outbreak.
Obviously, a tough situation for the government in Tonga, so desperate in needing supplies, but also not wanting to let COVID into the country. And it is also worth noting that both New Zealand and Australia have sent ships, it's going to take several days for those ships to arrive but loaded up with hundreds of 1000s of liters of water, a desalination plant on one of the ships from New Zealand and helicopters, Chinook heavy lift helicopters onboard on Australian ship.
KINKADE: Yeah, some desperately needed aid and equipment. And Blake, the United Nations says about 84,000 people that's more than 80% of Tonga's population have been impacted by this disaster. But with the damage to communication lines, there really is still a lot we don't know, right?
ESSIG: Yeah, you know, for several days, the South Pacific Island nation of Tonga was essentially cut off from the rest of the world because of asphalt in damaged communication lines that won't be repaired still for another few weeks. And we're only just starting to hear firsthand accounts of what it was like for people living on the South Pacific Island nation. Take a listen.
MARIAN KUPU, TONGAN JOURNALIST: Our ears were freaking. And we couldn't even hear each other. So, all we do with mimicry is pointing to our families get up to get ready to branch thoughtfully. So that's what we -- so that's what we did. It's like when you're in the airplane who didn't hear properly, but the sound, the glass was so loud that our ears ringing, and we couldn't hear anything.
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ESSIG: And now take a look at this new video from Reuters released overnight. This is what it looks like on Tonga's main island fallen trees, homes destroyed and ash covering just about everything while the cleanup effort is underway according to aid workers in Tonga, water remains the biggest concern after ash and sea water contaminated the local supply. Lynda?
KINKADE: Yeah, well hopefully those people can get the water and supplies they need as soon as possible. Good to see that some aid is now arriving. Blake Essig for us, thanks so much for that update.
Well, officials in Peru say the eruption in Tonga is to blame for a massive oil spill near Lima. The foreign ministry calls it an ecological disaster. It said the incident harmed animal and plant life and about 18,000 square kilometers around the islands and fishing areas. Stefano Pozzebon has the details.
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STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: An oil spill that is wreaking havoc in Peru was caused by the volcano eruption in Tonga more than 10,000 miles away. According to preliminary information by the Peruvian Environment Ministry, the spill was caused when an oil tanker was hated by a wave caused by the Tongan eruption, and it was unloading crude oil to a refinery in Ventanilla close to Peruvian Capital, Lima, that caused the more than 6000 barrels of oil to spill off and stain beaches in at least three different districts of Lima's metropolitan area.
Cleanup efforts are underway, with hundreds of workers trying to limit the damage while the blame game has already begun. An environmental prosecutor announced on Monday that he had opened an investigation into potential environment crimes into the refinery, which is owned by the Spanish oil major Repsol, the mayor of Lima took to Twitter demanding that Repsol to resolve the situation while a spokesperson for the company said to Peruvian media that Repsol is committed to restoring the entire coastline to its original status. For CNN this is Stefano Pozzebon, (inaudible).
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KINKADE: Well, three children have been killed in Syria due to fears winter storms moving through the region. Humanitarian Organization Care says the storms have been especially brutal to internally displaced Syrians living in camps. One child died for 10 collapsed under the weight of snow. The other two were caught in a fire caused by a heater in their tent, with temperatures in some parts of the region are expected to plunge lower than they have in 40 years.
Well, still to come, Boris Johnson says England is now beginning to roll back COVID restrictions, thanks to a successful booster campaign. We'll have the details ahead.
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LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Good to have you with us.
Well, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says his government got the big things right when it comes to the battle against COVID-19. And on Wednesday announced that because of the extraordinary vaccine booster campaign, England could now return to more lenient Plan A restrictions.
The health secretary also credited the progress made.
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SAJID JAVID, BRITISH HEALTH SECRETARY: We are more boosted than any large country in Europe. We've created the largest testing program of any country in Europe and we have procured more antivirals than any country in Europe. That's why we are the most open country in Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, Plan A means the government is no longer asking people to work from home and face coverings will no longer be advised in classrooms.
And by next Thursday, all mandatory mask rules will end but those who test positive for COVID must still self-isolate.
In France, new COVID infections are surging. On Wednesday, the country reported more than 400,000 new cases for a second straight day. France has registered more than one million new COVID cases since Monday. That's according to CNN's calculation of government data.
CNN's Melissa Bell reports from Paris.
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MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Three protests in a single week. Medical workers, teachers and ordinary citizens angered by the French government's handling of the pandemic. But with the fifth wave bringing record COVID figures, it's determined to keep up the pressure on the unvaccinated.
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Make this simple gesture for you, for your countrymen, for our country. The whole of France is counting on you.
BELL: Emmanuel Macron's tone changing only days later when he told a newspaper that he wanted with his vaccine pass to piss off France's 5 million unvaccinated citizens, roughly 7.5 percent of the population.
It appears to have worked. Protesters angry that the unvaccinated will be excluded from cafes and restaurants, cinemas, theaters and even transport between regions.
Anger reflected also in parliament, as lawmakers debated the tightening of COVID regulations.
AGNES THILL, FRENCH MP (through translator): Soon, we will see people hiding in the trains' toilets to eat their sandwiches.
Bell: One lawmaker showing the three kilograms of equipment he says he'll be carrying around until the end of his life, as a result of catching COVID-19.
RAPHAEL GERARD, FRENCH MP: When I take the train, I don't worry about whether or not I will be able to eat peanuts. I asked myself whether or not I'm going to get out of the train in one piece or whether I will be going back to hell.
BELL: More than 300 death threats have been reported against elected officials since July, 2021 according to the minister of the interior. The majority of them from anti-vaxxers.
This lawmaker from Macron's party now has his home patrolled by the police.
JACQUES MAIRE, FRENCH MP: What we feel now is that with the pandemic that some people who used to be normal and great citizens will become more and more marginalized in fact. And will feel themselves in a kind of a blockade.
BELL (on camera): The debate here in the National Assembly was angrier and longer than the government had expected. And Emmanuel Macron's words on wanting to piss off the unvaccinated certainly didn't help.
So could it be that in using them, he was actually seeking as a reforming president, as a strong president to look ahead to an election that is now less than three months away.
BRUNO CAUTRES, POLITICAL ANALYST: When he said that (INAUDIBLE) if you reelect me, I will continue to do this kind of thing. I will continue to reform France even if you don't like it.
BELL (voice over): The French president has yet to confirm that he will run. But his COVID policies look set to loom large. Many candidates taking part in recent protests with several like the far- right Marine Le Pen opposed not so much to vaccination per se, as to the government's vaccine pass.
And there is little doubt that Emmanuel Macron will seek reelection. On Tuesday he was announcing fresh investments aimed at making the country more competitive and already looking ahead to the next five years.
Melissa Bell, CNN -- Paris. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, joining us now is Anne Rimoin, a professor in the Department of Epidemiology at the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health. Good to have you with us.
ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR-DEPT. OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, UCLA FIELDING SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
[01:34:51]
KINKADE: Global cases of COVID-19 are still increasing but the WHO says some countries, the current wave has peaked and at this point in time, infections in South Africa and the U.K. are starting to fall.
What's your assessment? How much hope should that give us?
RIMOIN: I think that that should give us a lot of hope. I mean what we have -- what we have seen is this wave has been really a tsunami that has just washed over the globe. There are certain places that are going to be peaking early and we will see those cases come down. And that's terrific news.
But just as everybody would like to remind you, the rest of the world is not -- is still dealing with major surges here in the United States. We are still having record high cases. We're seeing it start to really peak in many countries, so there is still a ways to go.
KINKADE: I want to look at the U.K. because in the week to January 15, 3.5 million people tested positive for COVID-19. That was down from 4.3 million the week before. And this is the trend that began in early January, cases started to drop.
The prime minister now says that people no longer have to work from home or wear a face masks or use a vaccine pass from next Thursday. What's your response to that given the case numbers are still in the millions?
RIMOIN: Well you know, case numbers are, as you just said, extremely high. And so I understand that everybody is very tired of this pandemic and ready to get to the other side of it.
But I do think that having a little bit more stamina, keeping going for a little while longer to be able to really get over this wave will prevent severe disease hospitalization and death in people who in particular have not yet been vaccinated, people who are immunocompromised, children, people who may not have been fully immunized.
So you know, I do think that there is such a push to get to the other side of this. But if we do it in a measured way, if we are cautious and careful and removing these guidelines, doing it in a stepwise fashion, we could still save lives.
KINKADE: Yes. So talk to us about Professor -- about what point we could move from a pandemic to an endemic situation, where the disease is at a stable and predictable level.
RIMOIN: Well, as you said, endemic is about when a disease becomes stable and the rates are stable and predictable. And we are not there yet with COVID.
You know, we have seen these very unpredictable waves. We are still waiting to see if we have additional variants that will arise and what they will do.
So I think that this use of the term "endemic" to mean, you know, that we will -- that it's going to be less dangerous, that we are going to be able to kind of forget about it, is really not exactly where we are.
What we need to be really doing is thinking about how are we going to manage when we see these cases go down, when we have kind of a lull here? How are we going to manage so that we are able to get in front of any wave that happens in the future.
We have to make sure that we are doing things like doing excellent genomic surveillance globally. We need to make sure that we are vaccinating the world because these variants arise in populations where the virus has the opportunity to spread rapidly. You know, these are the things that we need to think about.
So my hope is, while preparing for a time where cases may be low for a while, that we do everything we can to get vaccines in arms. And prepare so the next wave isn't so dangerous.
KINKADE: And speaking of vaccines, Professor, what else needs to happen to improve the distribution of vaccine and to encourage people to take the vaccine?
RIMOIN: This is -- you know, this is a huge problem. It isn't just about handing vaccines to countries. Countries need to be able to get those vaccines in arms. And they need to be able to have a plan because all of these vaccines really do require multiple doses.
It's not going to be one shot and forget about it scenario here. We are going to have to be able to have a sustained approach. And that is going to be complicated.
We are going to need to invest in health systems globally. We are going to have to make sure that we don't ease up when things get easy for a while. That's always when we are starting to see a resurgence.
We've seen this happen over and over again in this pandemic that we kind of take our foot off the brake for a minute and then that's when it gets in front of us. The key is, getting in front of it, doing everything we can to ensure that we are safe, not only from this particular surge of this variant but any variant that comes in the future.
KINKADE: Some sound advice. Thanks very much, Professor Anne Rimoin. We appreciate your time.
RIMOIN: My pleasure.
KINKADE: Well, a Czech folk singer has died from COVID-19 after her son says she deliberately caught the virus to obtain a health pass. 57-year-old Hana Horka was part of the band Asonance.
She had not been vaccinated and her son says he's speaking out to warn others against taking this approach.
[01:40:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAN REK, SON OF FOLK SINGER HANA HORKA (through translator): My mom wanted to get sick so she gets the COVID pass.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she got COVID from you because you are positive at the time?
REK: She said to me and even publicly, she wants to get infected so that she is done with COVID.
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KINKADE: The singer's son believes some prominent personalities on social media who were against vaccines influenced his mother's decisions.
Well, China's zero-COVID campaign has kept infections at a minimum but a handful are still breaking through. Beijing recorded another five cases on Wednesday, just a little more than two weeks before the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympic Games.
CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is following all the developments and joins us now from Hong Kong. Good to have you with us, Kristie.
So the Beijing games are rapidly approaching and now we are seeing omicron cases continue to rise in the Chinese capital. Just bring us up to speed.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, the overall level of infection is so far lower than what we are seeing in cities in the west. And yet the number of COVID-19 cases, you're right, are rising in Beijing, the Olympic host city just weeks before the start of the Beijing Winter Olympic games.
On Wednesday, Beijing reported five new cases of COVID-19. Three confirmed to be the delta variant; four linked to a cold chain facility, a cold storage or frozen food facility in the Feng Xin (ph) district of Beijing.
That facility has been sealed off. Operations have been suspended. Even the residential buildings where the workers live, that has been put under lockdown as well.
In terms of the number of omicron cases in Beijing or across China, that is still unclear at the moment. But if we bring up the map for you, what we confirm is this. That the highly infectious omicron variant and locally transmitted cases of it have been detected in at least nine cities across China. And you see it there, it's all across the map in Shina from the south in Shenzhen to central Anyang City in Hanan province to, of course, the Olympic host city there in Beijing.
Now meanwhile, a Chinese Olympic official is warning against violations of the Olympic spirit.
And I want to -- I also want to give you an update on this story as well. Look, the International Olympic Committee they have been saying that athletes are free to speak out during the Olympics even in the Beijing bubble, unless it only happens during a press conference or during an interview, not during an awards ceremony, not during competition.
But the question was posed on Wednesday during a virtual briefing to a Chinese Olympic official about safety concerns for athletes who do choose to speak out. And what he said was extremely revealing.
Let's bring up the quote from you. This is from Yang Shu, he is the deputy director general of Beijing's 2022 International Relations Department. And he said this quote, "Any expression that is in line with the Olympic spirit I'm sure will be protected. And anything and any behavior or speeches against Olympic Spirit especially against Chinese laws and regulations are also subject to certain punishment," unquote,
Now, in regards to that certain punishment, Yang Shu said that a potential punishment would be cancellation of accreditation which is in line with the organizers playbook.
Lynda, back to you.
KINKADE: Yes, that would be a huge story, if we see athletes lose credentials to stay in a country and compete.
All right. Kristie Lu Stout, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much.
STOUT: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, Israeli officials move forward with an eviction and a Palestinian family stands firm in defiance.
Coming up, the scene at a neighborhood in east Jerusalem.
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KINKADE: Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is calling Israel's eviction and demolition of a Palestinian family's home in east Jerusalem, a war crime. Israeli officials said the family had many opportunities to hand over the land since an evacuation order was served in 2017.
Our Hadas Gold reports.
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HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over) : It was around 3:00 in the morning when the police and municipality workers arrived. Members of the Salhiyeh family were led away, evicted before the heavy machinery came in to destroy what buildings remained.
The large operation began on Monday, Israeli police on site joined by dozens of heavily armed special forces. A metal and glass structure of housing, a nursery selling plants were demolished while the family along with supporters stood on the roof of their house in a show of defiance.
Earlier in the week, family patriarch Mahmoud Salhiyeh, threatened to light a gas canister and burn down the house where he lived with his wife and five children.
MAHMOUD SALHIYEH, HOME OWNER (through translator): Whoever leaves this house is a traitor. We are going nowhere. Either we die or live. I will set myself on fire. This is oil. I will burn myself with the house and my children.
GOLD: The Jerusalem municipality says the buildings were illegally built on public land. And that it plans to build a school for local children with special needs on the site.
An evacuation order was first issued in 2017 and have been upheld by the courts.
Public affairs minister Omar Barlev tweeted his support saying, "You can't have it both ways, both demanding the municipality act for the welfare of its Arab residents, and at the same time oppose the construction of educational institutions for their welfare."
Sheikh Jarrah is one of several neighborhoods in east Jerusalem where buildings housing Palestinian families and businesses, face possible demolition or evacuation.
The threat of what appeared to be imminent expulsion for several families who live less than 200 meters away from the Salhiyeh family caused weeks of protests last spring. There, the case was triggered not by the municipality, but by Jewish groups (INAUDIBLE) a restitution law to get back land they claim was originally theirs.
The plight of the families, helped spark an 11-day war in May between militants in Gaza and the Israeli army. Despite the different (INAUDIBLE) contacts, many Palestinians say that the cases all feel like an ongoing attempt to drive them off the land.
A Palestinian authority minister in Ramallah telling CNN such evictions are part of an effort to change (ph) the status quo of Jerusalem, and negatively affecting the Jerusalemite presence whether they are Christians or Muslims. As the light rose on Sheikh Jarrah on Wednesday and the bulldozers continue their work, the belongings left behind serves as a reminder of Jerusalem's ongoing tensions.
Hadas Gold, CNN -- Jerusalem.
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KINKADE: Well, still to come, a climate change mystery. Dive inside a coral reef that has escaped the effects of global warming. Now, scientists want to know how.
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KINKADE: Well, a rare coral reef has been discovered in the South Pacific that appears to be unharmed by climate change. Well, scientists are trying to unlock its secrets in an effort to help save other reefs around the world.
CNN's Jennifer Gray reports.
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JENNIFER GRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Divers ready their breathing equipment, and down they go.
An amazing discovery before their eyes, a rare and unique coral reef ecosystem found off the coast of the French Polynesian island of Tahiti. At three kilometers long, the reef is one of the largest in the world to lie at a depth of more than 30 meters. The majority of the known coral reefs are found at depths of up to 25 meters.
This area of ocean is unique, it's middle ground between shallower waters and the deep ocean floor, but still has enough light for coral to grow and reproduce.
These giant rose-shaped corals are in pristine condition, some reaching two meters in dynamiter. Now the scientists are examining them in an effort to find out if there could be other large reefs at the same depth yet to be discovered.
But, it's not an easy task.
JULIAN BARBIERE, HEAD OF MARINE POLICY, UNESCO: That may be one of the reasons why we don't find deep reefs, you know, because the conditions for diving there are quite complicated. When you're going over to 40 to 50 to 70 meters, you cannot go there with your usual scuba gear, you need some special apparatus.
GRAY: For this expedition led by UNESCO, these drivers are using state-of-the-art computer controlled breathing equipment known rebreathers. The special helium based gas mixture allows them to stay down longer and go down deeper.
The divers take photos of the reef during their mission, while also measuring and taking samples to study it further.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So now, we're going to explore the first 100 meters on the reef of Rose Corals. In any case, we will try to see if there's a colony, and at what depth it stops.
So here we go into an unexplored world. Explore the unexplored. It's quite motivating and exhilarating.
GRAY: Positive news about coral reefs is rare. Rising sea temperatures, pollution, and overfishing are the reason about half of the coral reefs have been lost since the 1950s.
But this discovery means there is much more to learn about coral reefs and their surroundings that could help scientists better understand and predict climate change. According to UNESCO, only 20 percent of the world's seabed has been mapped.
BARBIERE: We can only protect what you can measure. And as we are trying to set targets for global ocean conservation around the world, you know, this is the basic information that you need to start, you know, establishing marine protected areas in the world.
GRAY: This mission was only a first attempt. More expeditions are planned in the coming months to further investigate the reef.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coral reef is one of the most sensitive ecosystem. So when we discover a major new jewel in the crown, it's quite unique.
GRAY: Jennifer Gray, CNN.
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KINKADE: Well, we're getting an inside look at an historic Italian villa worth hundreds of million of dollars, which is at the center of an ugly family dispute. The aristocratic estate in Rome features the world's only ceiling mural by the famous painter Caravaggio.
Now the entire properties up for sale, and an American turned Italian princess who calls it home gave our Ben Wedeman a tour.
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RITA CARPENTER, OWNER, VILLA AURORA: Here's our (INAUDIBLE). And here's Gwendoline Talbot, the earl of Shrewsbury's daughter who married Marcantonio Borghese. And they had a child named Agnese Borghese who became my husband's great, great, great grandmother.
I think that Domenici --
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Texan born daughter Rita Carpenter better known in these parts as Her Serene Highness Princess Rita Boncompagni Ludovisi, shows me around Rome's 16th century Villa Aurora, her home for almost 20 years.
[01:54:48] WEDEMAN: But not for much longer. The villa, valued at around $535 million has been at the center of a bitter legal dispute between Carpenter, who was the third and final wife of her late husband, Prince Nicolo Boncompagni Ludovisi and his sons by a previous marriage.
(on camera): So this is water lily?
(voice over): An Italian judge ordered the house to be put up for auction, with a starting price of just over $400 million. In real estate, it's all about location, location, location. But in this case, it's also about the villa's interior, jam-packed with priceless artwork in almost every room.
CARPENTER: It is the only ceiling painting ever done by Caravaggio. It was done in 1597 when he was 23.
WEDEMAN: The villa is just a few minutes walk from Via Venetto, Rome's most exclusive shopping district. It's brimming with art, but it needs about $10 million worth of renovations, starting with the heating.
(on camera): What's it like to live in this house? It's cold.
CARPENTER: It's very cold, I'm freezing I know. We didn't think about the pipes bursting or all the other things you have to think about. You don't normally have to think about in a modern house in America.
I mean there are things that go wrong here all the time. And so trees that fall down and hit the car on the street, whatever it might be.
WEDEMAN: Villa Aurora is out of the price range of all but the billionaire class. Carpenter, who spent years documenting the villa's history, looks for a heavenly buyer.
CARPENTER: I hope, that an angel buys it, and that they understand the depth of history here.
WEDEMAN: By law, the Italian government can match the winning bid, and take possession of the villa, a stretch perhaps, in a country where the state is in a perennial financial crisis.
For art historian Elizabeth Lev, that would be the ideal solution.
ELIZABETH LEV, ART HISTORIAN: Well, as an adopted Italian, there's nothing I would love more than to see it in the hands of the Italian state, so that we can continue to enjoy it.
Tremendous work from one room to another. You are looking at masterpieces, exciting moments in the history of art, and then absolutely, absolutely unique exemplars in history of art.
WEDEMAN: As it turns out, there were no takers in the auction which closed Tuesday. Villa Aurora goes back on the block in April. Prepare your bids.
Ben Wedeman, CNN -- Rome. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, that does it for this edition of CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Lynda Kinkade. Thanks for joining us.
Stick around, the news continues on CNN with my colleague Rosemary Church.
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